VP vs JCTC

[CountOfMC]

I hope we can keep this one civil for the most part, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts. A lot of you probably haven't been to the Jordan Creek Town Center in Des Moines, but head to head, which is better? Would you rather have one in place of the other? Here's my epeon:

-VP is better on the sole fact of being an open mall alone, while JCTC is just another big enclosed mega mall. Nonetheless, far better than anything they had before.
-JCTC is bigger with more outparcels, but with WalMart pending to open a location nearby, it loses some credibility. VP is more upscale in this regard, and I'd imagine the demographics are higher for VP too.
-JCTC definitely has more stores, but it's a wash. VP's stores are just as high end, and don't really need all the other 'bubble gum' stores Jordan Creek occupies.
-At full build out, won't VP eventually be bigger with a full service hospital, additional retail/restaurants, and apartments?

At the end of the day, I think I'd take VP over the Town Center in DSM. The more I ponder about it, Jordan Creek reminds me more of Oak View Mall and it's surrounding area, only a little more attractive. Overall, it's a 'good get' (as Cowboy famously says ) for Des Moines, but it does nothing to seperate itself from any other mall out there in my mind. Just my 2 pennies though of my first impression of the mall. What are yours for those who have been?

[MTO]

Last time a thread comparing DM and O came out, it was locked
Personally ill take JCTC for the sole fact that it so much larger, oh and it’s enclosed.

[OmahaDevelopmentMan]

JCTC kicks a$$ IMO. Its huge. I'd say its pry bigger than any mall we have, not nicer though, Regency Court freakin nice. In comparison, Village Point really sucks (not that it does suck). Village Point mostly has things for your middle age woman and teenagers (being a late night hangout and all). JCTC has something for everyone. I've been to JCTC twice and I love it. I really wish we had a mall here that nice, though I hope there will be in the Gretna area (my prediction for next indoor mall location). I also think Village Point would have been a ton better if it had more shopping. If it were to have combined with West Dodge Station (which I really think it needed to, even though I doubt the idea was thought of), it wouild make around 1.1 million square feet of retail space. If that were the situation (in addition to all the West VP area and a hotel, it would be a completely different story, but for now, JCTC wins.

[MTO]

I really wish we had a mall here that nice, though I hope there will be in the Gretna area (my prediction for next indoor mall location).

I have to agree with you on that one. However with the current retail boom saturating the market, I honestly doubt we will see something like that on a large scale for a long long time.

[CountOfMC]

JCTC kicks a$$ IMO. Its huge. I'd say its pry bigger than any mall we have, not nicer though, Regency Court freakin nice.

I guess how fun can going to a mall be? I give props to VP because it's not your dime-a-dozen mall. It looks like JCTC ripped their mall off Coral Ridge. I haven't been inside, but I like the area surrounding Jordan Creek much better than the layout of the mall itself.

I also think Village Point would have been a ton better if it had more shopping. If it were to have combined with West Dodge Station (which I really think it needed to, even though I doubt the idea was thought of), it wouild make around 1.1 million square feet of retail space. If that were the situation (in addition to all the West VP area and a hotel, it would be a completely different story, but for now, JCTC wins.

Good point. They really flubbed this one up by not putting West Dodge Station in West Village Point. The hospital should flip places with where W. Dodge Station is going in now. That was a big brain fart who ever thought that up. I think the new Scarlet Cream club will create some new energy for the area, and may spin off some other cool bar/restaurant types. I'm curious to see how West VP interacts with what's out there now. Remember, more retail is planned for this area... not sure how much though. I just don't see JCTC as anything more than a nicer and bigger Oak View/Valley West.

I think West Dodge Station could be cool though... hit up some shops and then walk to Memorial Park West with your better half and marinate all day.

[Ingersoll1978]

Wal*Mart is in a different development east of Jordan Creek Town Center. Also, the store will be unique and will blend in with the Galleria's meditteranean theme (not that that is cool).

Jordan Creek is a totally different concept than Village Pointe. It combines the mall and lifestyle concepts into one. Also, Jordan Creek has numerous stores in it that Village Pointe doesn't have (JCrew, Pottery Barn, A&F, abercrombie, Williams Sonoma, Forever 21, Cheesecake Factory, and the list goes on and on).

Village Pointe is a nice lifestyle center. I would like to see one built in the Des Moines area as well.

It's basically comparing a strip mall on Dodge to Westroads.

[Linkin5]

Are you seriously comparing these two? Des Moines wins in a landslide.

[jsheets]

Jordan Creek wins this debate, hands down! I completely agree with the previous two posters: this isn't even debatable.

Jordan Creek offers so much more. The lake alone is enough to topple VP, but then you have the restaurants and stores too! VP is a great "lifestyle center", but Jordan Creek is a great entertainment and shopping center.

[Brad]

JCTC has a lake and is enclosed so that is better. How about the access, it can't be worse than VP(poor planning!!!).

Here is what they should have done!

[DTO Luv]

Even if JCTC is bigger than any Omaha mall Des Moines still has less malls than Omaha just based on size. The only thing they have that we don't is that Fing CF. So even if it is on a lake, isn't that one in Papillion going to have one too? I'm not big on malls, but I'm from Omaha so I'll say VP.

[CountOfMC]

Good discussion, but maybe I should rephrase it and say, what would you rather have right now? You guys seriously would've opted for a Jordan Creek type mall instead of what we got at VP? How many more enclosed malls do we need? The next type of lifestyle shopping district we need is one like the Central West End in St. Louis, like the 72nd & Dodge plans indicated... hooking up with Aksarben and UNO.

I think some of you guys may be jumping the gun a little on VP. It's not even half developed. Still a lot more in the works, and we may be in for some surprises yet.

[DMRyan]

I hope we can keep this one civil for the most part, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts. A lot of you probably haven't been to the Jordan Creek Town Center in Des Moines, but head to head, which is better? Would you rather have one in place of the other? Here's my epeon:

-VP is better on the sole fact of being an open mall alone, while JCTC is just another big enclosed mega mall. Nonetheless, far better than anything they had before.
-JCTC is bigger with more outparcels, but with WalMart pending to open a location nearby, it loses some credibility. VP is more upscale in this regard, and I'd imagine the demographics are higher for VP too.
-JCTC definitely has more stores, but it's a wash. VP's stores are just as high end, and don't really need all the other 'bubble gum' stores Jordan Creek occupies.
-At full build out, won't VP eventually be bigger with a full service hospital, additional retail/restaurants, and apartments?

At the end of the day, I think I'd take VP over the Town Center in DSM. The more I ponder about it, Jordan Creek reminds me more of Oak View Mall and it's surrounding area, only a little more attractive. Overall, it's a 'good get' (as Cowboy famously says ) for Des Moines, but it does nothing to seperate itself from any other mall out there in my mind. Just my 2 pennies though of my first impression of the mall. What are yours for those who have been?

If we're including hospitals and apartments in total space of VP at full build out, JCTC can claim Costco and other schlocky big box then. Where do we draw the line on this comparison? Retail, dining, design, the nearby development that each is spurring?

Here's my take on all of this. Retail wise, JCTC easily wins. Besides Z Gallerie and newly mentioned GAP concept store, what does VP have that JCTC doesn't have? What does JCTC have that VP doesn't have? Nuff said.

Dining wise, it's a draw. VP has a very commendable selection of restaurants that exceeded my expectations in number and in quality. Still, JCTC has PF Changs, Flemings Prime, Joe's Crab Shack, Cheesecake Factory, Bravo, and a few others in a cluster on a nice "lake" setting. Defintely a force to be reckoned with, but I'm envious of the Melting Pot and other restaurants that have yet to enter the DSM market.

From a design/planning standpoint, VP wins handily. I love the lifestyle center concept, but I do question it's staying power as a popular retail choice in this climate over the coming years. VP is defintely more attractive from the exterior, and has a smarter and more sustainable design. While JCTC does feature some lifestyle center elements, it's leagues below the lifestyle center component found in VP. The reality is that both are not immediately integrated with housing, and both are surrounded by parking lots and located in a very suburban setting.

About nearby demograhpics, I wouldn't be surprised to see VP win this one. JCTC was built on the very edge of town with hardly anything around it (with the exception of Iowa's most upscale gated neighborhood). I think we both need to wait out and see what happens over the coming years to draw final conclusions about this. Until someone with a lot of time digs up the data, we won't be knowing for sure unless we compare dated data that RED and General Growth used to lure retailers in.

[Ingersoll1978]

With Wells Fargo building a 1 million square foot office complex across the street housing 4,500 employees, Jordan Creek Crossing, West Glen Town Center, The Galleria, and the numerous housing developments going west of it, Jordan Creek won't be on the edge of town by itself for long.

You can check them all out here:

http://www.absolutedsm.com/west_northwest_proj_page.htm

[eomaha]

This is another one of those Sprint Center 'looks like an ugly wheel' arguments. Let's face it, we'd be talking about how much better Omaha is if an enclosed mall the likes of JCTC were built here.

VP vs JCTC is an apples and oranges comparison. The only thing they share in common is approximately when they were built. VP is what I would call a "Let's shop while we wait for our restaurant beeper to go off." retail center. There are likely more people going there to eat, watch a movie, or see a stand-up act... than there are purely to shop. Let's face it... it doesn't even have a real department store anchor.

JCTC is a destination retail center with fine restaurants and a movie theatre to go along with it. It really blows VP away as far as shopping is concerned. But the atmosphere of VP is undeniable in terms of it's appeal for a usually blah suburban retail cetner.

If you want a JCTC in the Omaha metro... our best bet isn't a new mall... but rather General Growth investing in significant renovations to the exterior surroundings at the Westroads. I would -expect- this to happen eventually, possibly coinciding with this ridiculously hyped Cheesecake Factory anticipation. Westroads is already JCTC's rival minus the nice 'lake district'. But consider what runs in a straight line along Regency Parkway south of Westroads in the form of Regency Court and One Pacific Place. This is indeed a very formidible retail shopping area. It wouldn't take much from GGP to bring Westroads up to JCTC 'specs'.

Give Des Moines credit where it's due... JCTC is a very fine enclosed mall which far exceeds anything in the Omaha metro. And give VP credit for being a very fine example of the niche draw that a lifestyle center is capable of delivering (and look forwrd to another example coming to Sarpy County).

But there really is no comparison between the two.

[DMRyan]

^
Ahh, the voice of reason. Switching gears a little bit, because that's what we seem to like to do with forum topics,

Any predictions on the impact that all the new Omaha retail will have on existing retail areas?
For years in DSM, we've been listening to the doom and gloom scenarios that our other retail centers and malls faced when JCTC opened up, some of which may initially be happening in front of our eyes right now.

What do you predict will happen to the non-big box anchored, older power centers and suburban strip malls? Will Crossroads someday be a Target Store and a couple of ghetto retailers selling wigs and off-brand Rocawear gear? Will the power centers that have been vacated by grocers, old Wal-Mart stores, and Best Buys become seriously blighted?

It's probably too early to tell, but curious what you all think.

[Omaha Cowboy]

DMRyan wrote:

'Will Crossroads someday be a Target Store and a couple of ghetto retailers selling wigs and off-brand Rocawear gear?'..

Not if the plans approved by the city from Omaha By Design have anything to do with it..I seriously don't see this even remotely happening to xroads..If anything, I'd say a 'comeback' of sorts for xroads is highly likely..With the focus back on urban infill and new reatil heating up in the area close to the mall, I see Crossroads moving back to it's designation of a 'destination mall' in the next 36-48 months..

As far as the explosion of retail destinations popping up all over the Omaha metro: Shadow Lake in Papio, Market Pointe, Sorenson Park Plaza, The Shopps at Ak-Sar-Ben, the new proposed shopping area on 204th st from L to Q sts etc having an impact on existing retail..Pretty much all of these developments address a retail need in underserved areas of the metro..The impact may have a bit of an initial effect at some of the existing mall areas..But in the end, Omaha's metro is large enough and growing fast enough to absorb any negative impact and keep everybody who shops in metro Omaha 'happy'..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[Omaha Cowboy]

TitosBurritoBarn wrote:

'If I were to choose which one I would rather have...I really don't know. I kind of like things the way they are. We have most of the businesses found at Jordan Creek in other parts of town and when it comes down to design, I do prefer the lifestyle center. As someone who finds pleasure in driving, the "everything in once place" idea of Jordan Creek is unimportant to me...so...I guess Village Point is what I'd rather have.'..

As it relates to VP and JCTC discussion..I agree completely with this..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[DMRyan]

We're getting nitpicky. I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter to me if I have to drive to several shopping centers, or go to one shopping center to visit my upscale chain stores and restaurants. However, most people in this Wal-mart mega-convienence society of ours would disagree, and probably want as much shopping clustered into as small of an area as possible.

Cowboy, both of our metros are growing so much retail-wise, I don't even think the college professor retail expert types even have a handle on what's going to happen. What you spoke of with Crossroads is what many of us in DSM said before JCTC. There have defintely been some causualties here so far, and Jordan Creek hasn't even been open a full year yet. With all the new retail in Omaha, it's time for the mall owners to sh*t, or get off the pot so to speak. If the mall owners don't make improvements to their properties, who cares if competition kills them--it's the nature of business.

That's kind of the wait and see attitude many of us have taken on the DSM forum. Nobody wants to see an entire mall/shopping district go under, but if that mall is stale, dated, and tired, it deserves what's coming to it.

[CountOfMC]

Tear up that dump of a Crossroads, and let's build our premier shopping district. heck, tear up everything from 72nd to Children's Hospital along Dodge.. this stretch is way too good for what serves it right now. XRoads is a 'has been.' Let's not keep putting bandaids on the problem. Keep it around until the district gets approved.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Point taken Ryan..But is a bit Apples and oranges IMO..The difference being JCTC's concept of 'all stores over one roof' was built as the ultimate one-stop get it all mega-mall..The developments in Omaha are more wide spread, of a smaller scale and designed to provide areas of the metro UNDERSERVED by retail at the present time..And the fact is, Omaha is better suited than Des Moines to serve the growing retail 'boom' (if you will) by the shear fact that is is nearly 300,000 larger in metro population than is Des Moines (I know some don't want to hear this; but it is indeed factually true and important to state in this discussion)..

And there is another reason (and I kind of eluded to it in my last paragraph)..

My additional thought is the JCTC concept was built to strain and drain the weakest performimg malls within Des Moines. I was also one who predicted in a 500,000 metro such as Des Moines, 1 if not 2 of the existing malls would directly feel the heat and SOON..The advantage Omaha has, along with being a larger metro, is that the retail offerings are spread out in smaller clusters without one being heads and shoulders 'over the top special' than the another..With JCTC, THAT is precisely what you have in Des Moines..Which creates a retail imbalance..

This is where Omaha and Des Moines are different in this regard..Size being one difference..With retail imbalance being the other..Omaha has much better retail 'balance'..

And as it relates to Crossroads, it still serves a significant retail population base that is being enhanced by additional retail development around it's immediate area..And along with the future plans approved by the city from Omaha by Design..The 'sh*t or get off the pot' reference you provide, I submit is already in motion for Crossroads and the surrounding area. Crossroads future to me appears brighter indeed..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[NovakOmaha]

Having spent quite a bit of time in other cities over the past years, most recently Des Moines, I'd offer the following:

Cowboy, the fact is that Des Moines other malls actually are experiencing stronger sales. I know from owners of malls in DM other than Jordan Creek that they haven't experienced the loss that was predicted. What DM has seen is a large recapture of dollars that used to go out of town...as opposed to a canibalization of local stores.

Crossroads, and to a lesser extent Westroads, is experiencing a definite loss of business not only to VP, but to Lakeside, West Maple, etc. Crossroads has a lot of problems, not the least of which is that it is severely landlocked. I don't see the Omaha by Design plan for 72nd happening for a long time, if at all.

With regard to Jordan Creek and its environs the demographics of the area are staggering. In addition, that Jordan Creek is an indoor mall is less of a factor than the fact that it encompasses over 2 million square feet. There really is no comparison between JC and VP. In the end, VP and West VP are two entirely different developments, done by two different companies, with two different markets. You'll see the difference in a few months when West VP announces tenants.

If you haven't been to JC yet, you should. It truely is an amazing place and there isn't anything like it in Omaha.

I agree with Jeff that Regency and One Pacific Place are indeed special places and elevate shopping in Omaha.

[Omaha Cowboy]

'Cowboy, the fact is that Des Moines other malls actually are experiencing stronger sales.'..

All of Des Moines malls? I'd say one for sure and maybe perhaps one other is experiencing either the opposite or somewhat weaker sales?? Undoubtably there has been some loss..Certainly individual stores within all malls as well..

And there is no doubt that JCTC is a very nice mega-mall..I visited it last winter..

Regardless (and for the reasons I stated in my last post), I still believe Omaha is better balanced retail-wise than is Des Moines..Not taking anything away from Des Moines of course..

And maybe you are correct about the Omaha by Design plans not coming to fruition anytime soon Novak..But then again, maybe it will..And even if it dosen't..I know many want to gloom and doom the Crossroads..But I believe it's here to stay and it serves an important purpose for a significant population base..The retail development in the area can't hurt..If anything else, it draws people into the Crossroads region and that is a plus..I see a glass half-full scenario here..Crossroads will be just fne..Draw a circle around the demographic it serves..It'll give you about 125,000 reasons why..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[DMRyan]

In terms of location, with the exception of having Westroads and Crossroads miles apart from each other, I do think the shopping centers in Omaha are more balanced with the overall population, especially now with the Sarpy County lifestyle center underway.

BTW, all three of the existing DSM malls took a cut in sales when JCTC opened up. We knew that was going to happen, and I'm predicting the same will happen in select shopping centers in Omaha too. It's common sense when you have all the people in Sarpy and the exurbs shopping at the existing centers. When they open up the new Shadow Lake, the Sarpy County people will be travelling there at the expense of other shopping centers. Sure, you have the fast growth in the Omaha metro, but DSM does too and I'm not sure it's going to be enough to offset the impact of a new retail destinations like JCTC, or multipe lifestyle centers in the Omaha metro.

Being that we're all chamber of commerce types that think with some optomism for the most part, I didn't want to admit JCTC's potential effects on other DSM malls, but it's effect is slowly happening in front of our eyes.

[CountOfMC]

And don't forget, by the time the 204th st. district is done, tens of thousands of people will have moved out this way. It's all in good time.

I think sometimes we can be too nice towards Des Moines because Ryan views this site and most of us know he's straight laced and very knowledgeable, but to say JCTC is truely amazing is like calling the dude in Napoleon Dynamite, "Stretch Armstrong". I don't smoke, but pass the pipe this way......

[DMRyan]

I appreciate that, and I think I often try to show the same courtesy to Omahans on our forum.

While we're cutting through the proverbial |expletive|, let me go ahead and flat out say that I think the older retail areas along 72nd, 84th, and Dodge Street/Crossroads Mall will feel the heat of all the new shopping in West and SW Omaha. Regency seems to have a good thing going for itself I can't see that going into decline. It seems to have good management too.

At any rate, whatever happens won't be happening over night when Shadow Creek and VP2 opens up. Again, all we can do at this point is make educated predictions because even the experts won't know what will happen.

[icejammer]

At any rate, whatever happens won't be happening over night when Shadow Creek and VP2 opens up. Again, all we can do at this point is make educated predictions because even the experts won't know what will happen.

True enough. When Oakview was built, I remember the talk about how the Omaha market was too far above the "norm" for sq. footage of retail per person in the metro and something was going to give. Anyone recall off-hand how/what the other main malls in the metro did after Oakview opened? (other than the obvious Southroads tanked, because it was heading that way already anyway)

[Ingersoll1978]

Strictly on comparing JCTC to VP:

Des Moines has grown over 150,000 people since its last mall was built (in 1975). Omaha has had three built since that time (if you include VP). I really don't think Des Moines is over retailed any more than any other place. What Jordan Creek has done has brought in retailers that we had to go to other cities to shop at. In fact, it's bringing in other shoppers from other parts of the state as well. Aside from the anchor stores, there are quite a few stores and restaurants that even (bigger) Omaha don't have (JCrew, abercrombie, Apple, Brookstone, Coach, Cheesecake Factory, almost all of the restaurants around the lake, etc.). With all of these stores and other higher profile stores (A&F, Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, etc.) in one place, its just a superior retail project than VP. About the food court-It's a food court. What do you expect there? JCTC is a super regional mall with close to 2,000,000 square feet developed on its property (with two more anchor spots available for future development), where as VP isn't even close at 600,000 square feet. That's not counting the $75 million Jordan Creek Crossing project across the street or the $100 million West Glen Town Center to the east. It just doesn't have the regional draw that JCTC has. Everyone in the state and probably a lot of people in Omaha know about JCTC. Where as in Iowa, most people don't know anything about VP.

If another mall in Des Moines goes under, so be it. I'd rather have JCTC and its spin off development than some |expletive| mall that hasn't changed much since it was built.

I went to VP last summer to check it out. It's nice. I really do like the outdoor component. I think they should have incorporated office or residential uses above the storefronts though. Also, the complex does have issues with getting into it. We waited about 5 minutes in traffic just to get to the parking lot from 168th St.

[NovakOmaha]

I'd say Ingersol about sumed it up nicely.

In the end, a lot of Omahans know about Jordan Creek, while not many Iowans know about VP.

One other thing. Logistics. Access to & from & around Jordan Creek is plentiful and well planned. Oakview and VP don't really measure up, access & logistics-wise. Now, before I get grief about being some type of Omaha-basher, step back & think about the above. I may in fact be less than the top Omaha lover, but that's because in the last couple of years I've had the opportunity to see and study other areas. There are in fact a few things Omaha could learn about planning and zoning, as well as developmental requirements & standards.

[Ingersoll1978]

I'm a reformed Omaha basher...I will admit. I think it has a lot to do with growing up in SW Iowa and the constant negativity you would hear from people in Omaha about Iowa...which was my home. After years of hearing Council Bluffs and other derogatory terms towards your home, you start to resent those people. I'm just glad that's changing. SW Iowans (and Omahans) in general don't really know the rest of Iowa west of Atlantic. It's a totally different place.

[OmahaDevelopmentMan]

This is off topic, but all the talk about Crossroads made me think of this sweet idea. Why doesn't someone buy the mall, tear it down, build a new state of the art mall (if there is such a thing) and build a connected mid or small high rise hotel at the intersection of 72nd and dodge. That way, everyone wins because Central Omaha wouldn't lose out on retail in West O, and, the area would be reborn in a sense. Oh and the height obsessed club would like to see a midrise or small highrise there too.

[CountOfMC]

Valley West was built in 1975? Good lord, I can't imagine ANYTHING out there at that time. When was Merle Hay built?

VP had upset poor planning. The funniest (and saddest) thing was that when VP opened, 168th St was closed. Sharp as a marble strategy there. Good god man, some of these things I will never figure out.

I think the article in the paper the other day said that over 6 million people have visited VP in its first year of operation. Anyone know the #'s for Jordan Creek? I'm curious to see just how regional they are.

[DMRyan]

JCTC doesn't have its one year anniversary until August of this year. Maybe they'll release some numbers then??

Merle Hay was originally built in the 1950's as DSM's original enclosed mall. It's been added onto numerous times since, with the last major addition going up in the 1970's. It's defintely a weird mall layout wise, and you can tell that the additions were added in stages rather than all at once.

And Ingersoll correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Valley West older than Southridge Mall? I believe Southridge was the last DSM mall to get built before JCTC, and is actually the one in the worst shape right now.

[Ingersoll1978]

Valley West and Southridge opened within a year of each other if I'm not mistaken.

[GoWest]

I don’t know why I should be surprised at a VP / JCTC comparison but I am. I’m not a big fan of malls but if you’re going to have one wouldn’t you rather have the bigger one with more stores. Especially the stores that we don’t even have. We all want the bigger arena don’t we? I think JC wins this one. Credit Des Moines for a great addition to the city.

[eomaha]

I think we've established this is an apples and oranges comparison. Jordan Creek is a super regional mall... I'm not sure if VP even qualifies as a regional mall (and no, you don't have to straddle an interstate if you're a center the size of Village Pointe or even an Oakview). I'd surely like to have a Jordan Creek in Omaha... but as I've said before, there's nothing wrong with a 'sprinkling' of fine retail centers like Village Pointe, One Pacific Place, Regency Court, etc... to fill in the gaps between enclosed malls like Westroads and Oakview. Each has carved out a niche, and continues to have success. I'm sure Crossroads will continue on in some form as well (in case anyone hadn't noticed, the new retail strips nearby are having great success... ie strip at SEC of 72nd and Dodge... SEC of 72nd and Pacific).

[the1wags]

For those who haven't been to JC.



I like both places really, JC is an very nice place the likes of which Omaha does not have as far as level of quality and scale of development. It blows our malls away IMO. That being said VP is also a really nice place with the cool main street feel. Since Ive lived in DM and now Omaha, Im just glad to see both of these citys growth. Yeah JHuston, that Starbucks at 72nd Dodge is probably already paid for.

[DMRyan]

Believe or not, that's my opinion too. I can't think of two cities that I have a greater passion for than Omaha and Des Moines. Must be the local loyalty factor kicking in.

For a plug of what JCTC is like, here's the photo gallery link from our website:

http://www.absolutedsm.com/JCTC_gallery.htm

[DTO Luv]

It just doesn't have the regional draw that JCTC has. Everyone in the state and probably a lot of people in Omaha know about JCTC.

Even if JC is a "better" regional mall Omaha still has MORE malls and MORE people coming here to shop so Omaha is more regional. Like Cowboy said Omaha's mall are more balanced. And for those of you Des Moiners Valley West sounds like the name of the mall I got in that "sitiuation" in.

[DMRyan]

^
Doesn't it ever get old?

Omaha should have more malls, it has more people. That's pretty common sense sh*t right there.

[DTO Luv]

Yeah it is common sense, so I don't see how Des Moines having one big mall makes it better regional mall than one hear. People come just as far to go to not one, but many of the malls hear. So VP against all the malls hear isn't that much above and beyond. I have never been to JC or VP (except the Cheeseburger in Paradise and the intial driving out to see it) but all I can say is that they're malls. Everyone has them and some stand out more than others.