Potpourri

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:44 pm

I thought I put this up here a few days ago but I don't see it.

Anyways...

I'm pretty confident that before that by the end of the decade we will here about a new Mutual of Omaha building DT. I really don't know what order to put this info but but here's what I'm thinking. Mutual is remodeling the building to make it as attractive as possible to sell, and will announce plans for a new building sometime aroung the companies Centennial in 2009-2010.

-The Dome Renovation.

The Dome is a big part of that buildings appeal. People outside of the company hold meetings there and rent spaces in the Dome. They are taking out the trees that are causing sanitation problems and replacing them with differant trees that won't grow out of there boundries into other parts of the building.

-The Plumbing.

They are redoing most of the plumbing in the main buildings core since toilets have been leaking and causing mold. Lots of men's rooms bathroom's toilet's are so old, that you flush them with your feet.

-The Tunnels under Mutual.

There are interbuilding tunnels under the Mutual buildings and Farnam St. This last week in the Mutual paper, they said to expect changes in the tunnels when we come back on Tuesday. I don't know what they have in store but I'll see tomorrow and have one of my people relay it to you.

-The building is getting maxed out.

They have moved my department around a couple of times to fit all of the new people in the building and there has been some small talk about Mutual buying another large regional competitor. (Please be Principal.) Plus WPS of Madison will be moving a few hundered people here as well.

-The Centennial.

When I first started at Mutual they told us that something 'big' was in the works for the 100 Year anniversary. Also on the way into the Dome their is a company timeline showing differant things that have happened and old company HQ's. The timeline only runs until 2010. And we're about due according to the rest of the times between HQ's.

-The Lot Developments.

This would be a big reason NOT to move, BUT what I'm thinking is that Mutual will use that as incentive to lure a buyer to the building since it would be attractive to employees. Also Mutual is very dedicated to the Destination Midtown project so I don't see them pulling out of Midtown until they have someone to replace them.

But if none of this happens at least Mutual will have a little bit better building. So if I'm wrong I don't care. I'm just reading between the lines.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:05 pm

So I am assuming that if they build a new HQ it would be in DTO, HA!

That was funny, seriously folks… That DTO mite end up working in DTO? Would you really want to do that D’Shawn? Or would you even last that long?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:46 pm

Working DT would be nice. Living there would be better.

OmahaChef · Post by **OmahaChef** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:07 pm

How much square footage is contained in the Mutual complex?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:11 pm

I actually have time at work where I busted out a ruler and did some estimates. I think in just the main building at 33rd and Dodge (excluding the Dome and South Site on Farnam) has between 800-900,000 sq ft. I think South Site and the Dome could easily be another 300,000-400,000 sq ft. So maybe 1.1M-1.3M sq ft. total. For those of you who don't know UP is 1.1M sq ft. so any new Mutual building would be of signifigant size.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:12 pm

I think they should vacate the building, build a new HQ building 750ft+ (NOT A CAMPAS) downtown, and incorporate the existing structure into its mid-town development weather it be business housing what ever.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:15 pm

I don't think that the Mutual building would be a very good residential rehab. It's from the 60's so it won't have anything cool in it like 1600 Farnam or something. I'll see if I can get some pics this week of the inside. It's nothing to get excited about at all.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:18 pm

Dam DTO so that’s what you do at work lol.
Yeah but, none of those old building downtown had anything cool in them including asbestos and they turned out ok. I really don’t mean residential use but use it for whatever I guess.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:21 pm

What would be cool is to tear it down and do more residential there but that building is so massive that it'd be way to expensive.

OmahaJaysCU · Post by **OmahaJaysCU** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:49 pm

Hey, I just found this forum a few days ago, this rumor page is awsome!

I hope this rumor works out. I think, like pkiphd, that the Mutual Campus could be used to fit in with the Mutual site redevelopment plan. It would make sense to me. I hope that you are right DTO Luv, a new 700 footer for mutual would be a wonderful way to celebrate their 100th aniversery. It would be even better if they were able to open it on their aniversery, but that would mean they would have to be announcing it really soon, which I don't see happening. So hopefully we will start to se some more rumors about this.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:56 pm

OmahaJaysCU wrote:Hey, I just found this forum a few days ago, this rumor page is awsome!

I hope this rumor works out. I think, like pkiphd, that the Mutual Campus could be used to fit in with the Mutual site redevelopment plan. It would make sense to me. I hope that you are right DTO Luv, a new 700 footer for mutual would be a wonderful way to celebrate their 100th aniversery. It would be even better if they were able to open it on their aniversery, but that would mean they would have to be announcing it really soon, which I don't see happening. So hopefully we will start to se some more rumors about this.

Welcome to our forum, GO JAYS!

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:58 pm

Interesting rumor, D'Shawn.

But I have to say, what is all this "tear it down" sentiment I've been sensing on the forum? Did someone put something in the water while I was in Europe, Quebec, and New Mexico this summer? ;)

And, If they were going to do something "big" for their centenniel, don't you think they would want to have it DONE for that celebration, not just announce it? And if that's the case, I'd expect an announcement in the next year or two.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:31 pm

D'Shawn, this isn't the 'Seems like a good time for a new skyscraper to be built." forum... these are supposed to be rumors, not guesses.

That said, I'd like to see Mutual continue to expand at Midtown, a nice 300-400 foot addition would really start to set it's skyline apart. I guess I need to make a 'Wish List' forum.

Ingersoll1978 · Post by **Ingersoll1978** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:00 am

I highly doubt Mutual of Omaha will be buying Principal Financial Group, a company that has twice as much revenue as Mutual. Keep dreamin'.

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:12 pm

Ingersoll1978 wrote:I highly doubt Mutual of Omaha will be buying Principal Financial Group, a company that has twice as much revenue as Mutual. Keep dreamin'.

Wish it weren't true but Mutual of Omaha is a pretty small player compared to the bigger insurance companies in its fields. Below is a sampling of industry stats. Principal dwarfs Mutual of Omaha. There is no way they will be buying our friends in Des Moines.

I joined the industry almost 2 years ago and one of my biggest surprises was how small MofO is and how weak it has been for several years now. Most industry observers (all of the ones I speak to and read at least) believe it is only a matter of time before Mutual of Omaha goes the way of Commercial Federal. They will be sold or merged into something. Most feel within ten years. Some believe within five.

With that in mind, I see Mutual of Omaha fighting to stay alive instead of building new corporate headquarters. Employment at Mutual is down significantly. During the mid-80s, they employed over 7000 in Omaha. I don't remember the last figures I saw, but aren't they well under 5000 now? So I doubt that lack of room will be a reason they would choose to build anew.

Hope I am just flat wrong. But I am worried about the future of Mutual of Omaha from a hometown pride standpoint.

Below are some figures that show Mutual of Omaha's size and relative weakness to the rest of the industry. Meanwhile Principal is one of the industry's largest and healthiest. There really is no comparison between the two companies. These figures come from an insurance industry source called VitalSigns. You need to add three zeros to all of the figures below.

MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
Total Admitted Assets $95,586,708 $4,012,021 $101,495,613 $207,012,442

Invested Assets
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
$64,351,535 $3,742,392 $49,804,267 $132,862,487

Net Yield on Mean Invested Assets 2004 (Industry Average 5.50%)
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
6.17% 4.50% 6.55% 5.55%

1-Year Asset Growth
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
11.5% 3.3% 12.1% 6.2%

3-Year Asset Compound Growth
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
10.8% 3.8% 9.6% 4.0%

Total Income
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
$16,648,611 $1,921,163 $9,778,962 $22,358,805

2004 Total Premium Income
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
$12,495,401 $1,748,839 $5,950,576 $15,453,565

1-Year Premium Growth
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
2.9% -4.3% 16.5% 11.6%

3-Year Compound Premium Growth
MassMutual Mutual of Omaha Principal Prudential
6.4% -2.4% 7.8% -1.3%

OmahaChef · Post by **OmahaChef** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:22 pm

Yipes! Those are some sobering stats!

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:14 am

What a buzz-kill man

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:18 am

I see ads on TV all the time here for Mutual of Omaha.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:26 am

Yet they remain a Fortune 500 company.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:36 am

I somehow find it a bit hard to believe that a Fortune 500 company like Mutual of Omaha is a 'small player' in the insurance industry..Just my thought..Even if it's 'all relative'..M of O is still a Fotune 500 company..

What am I missing?..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:12 am

I don't think you're missing anything Cowboy, I think it just illustrates that the insurance industry, as a whole, is huge and generates about as much revenue as anything out there, oil companies included.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:47 am

Thanks icejammer..

I was beginning to think my thought process was malfunctioning somehow..

Small player=Fortune 500 company..Somehow this does not compute to me..Even in the competitve world of insurance..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:55 am

Fortune 500 or not, it could still get swallowed by its larger competitors. Lets hope that the push to develop and sell some of its land holdings will allow for some capital infusion into its core competencies and an increase in revenues. It would hurt for Mutual to get swallowed and lose some employment and its hometown status.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:04 am

Anything 'could' happen..

The probability of it actually happening to Mutual of Omaha though?..Well..I'd be willing bet that 'chance' is fairly far down the insurance predatory food chain..

I would not hold our collective breaths..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:11 am

Nobody's saying it is going to happen soon but that it is a distinct possibility given Mutual's size and performance over the past few years. The fact that it is a Fortune 500 has no credence to its vulnerability amongst larger competitors. It would be a blow and the Ameritrade scarmblings over the past few months should highlight the possible scenario. Let's just hope the development/selling of their land holdings signal a strengthening of their position in the industry.i

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:00 pm

Omaha Cowboy wrote:I somehow find it a bit hard to believe that a Fortune 500 company like Mutual of Omaha is a 'small player' in the insurance industry..Just my thought..Even if it's 'all relative'..M of O is still a Fotune 500 company..

What am I missing?..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

as others have said here, the threat is that bigger fish in the Fortune 500 pool swallow the smaller Fortune 500 companies. Merger and consolidation. You get bigger or you get swallowed. It seems you're never big enough to avoid this risk altogether. I subscribe to Fortune 500, I will see if I can get the insurance company rankings in the top 100 to get an idea who is significantly larger than our hometown favorite.

Another factor feeding the merger/consolidation in this particular industry is the removal of all the regulatory barriers that used to separate banking, insurance and securities firms. This has caused the playing field to change dramatically and cause all kinds of upheaval and uncertainty. It used to not matter if a certain bank was larger than an insurance company. No one cared between the two firms because they were not competitors. Now they do care. Maybe these two firms decide if you can't beat them, then join them. Now they're larger. Scares other banks and insurance and financial services firms. They follow suit. Then another wave follows suit. Smaller companies now, by comparison can't compete anymore. They go on the auction block or join someone else or whatever. The cycle goes on. Mutual among everyone else is having to reinvent themselves. If they fall behind, which some argue, Mutual has, then it has to take more risks. Some of these risks lately don't appear to be paying off according to their financial documents. Anyway, I am going to go see if I can round up the F500 list pertaining to this industry.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:07 pm

guy4omaha-

I certainly appreciate and understand what you're saying..

But at this point, I think the probability that Mutual of Omaha will get swallowed up by a 'bigger insurance fish' anytime soon..or ever..Is highly unlikely..

Does it happen? Sometimes..

If we had a 'Speculation Forum', I'd wisk this thread in there faster than you could say: Takeov..............

..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:38 pm

Cowboy,

I have no facts that say anything is pending. And I certainly hope it doesn't happen. But to remain independent in any industry is darn difficult today. My old employer in a different industry was number five in marketshare. But because it couldn't keep up with number 1 and 2 it had to sell and merge to again to have a chance at long-term viability.

I should also clarify what I am trying to suggest as a possibility of what is going on. I don't think Mutual of Omaha has performed poorly so much as it is has NOT joined (so far) the merger mania and as a result has fallen behind all of these other companies who have merged and combined. Time will only tell. But Mutual is late to the game if they are now deciding that they have to buy other companies.

For the last 40 years or so, it can be argued that the biggest trend is consolidation outside of media options. But even then only a few really big players control media today. Another example is to look at the number of breweries today compared to 30 years ago. The brands that still exist domestically are under the umbrella of Budweiser and Miller with a few others still trying to hang on such as PBR.

Remaining an independent company is getting more difficult everyday. Don't think that there are not predators that want to take First National Bank of Omaha into their organizations as well. It too, is bucking the trend.

Anyway, I probably have gone on too long. Following is a list of the F100 Financial Services Firms according to Fortune. Of the top 100, 26 are in the financial services/insurance industry. Mutual of Omaha is way down at 463. There are a whole slew of other financial services firms between number 463 and number 100. My guess is that the top 20 percent of the F500 dwarfs the rest of the list combined. The Pareto Principle at work. Using that same principle on the F100, six of the top twenty firms are financial services firms.

Fortune 100 (Selected the financial services firms I recognized)
#8 Citigroup
#9 AIG
#12 Berkshire Hathaway (go Omaha)
#16 Cardinal Health
#18 Bank of America
#19 State Farm
#20 JP Morgan
#23 Amerisource
#36 Morgan Stanley
#37 MetLife
#40 United Healthcare
#51 Allstate
#52 Wells Fargo
#53 Merrill Lynch
#59 Goldman-Sachs
#62 American Express
#64 Prudential (compare their stats to Mutual of Omaha's in posts above)
#65 Wachovia
#68 New York Life
#81 TIAA-CREF
#83 MassMutual
#85 St. Paul Travelers
#88 The Hartford
#94 Lehman Brothers
#97 Wellpoint
#99 Nationwide

For point of reference, UP the nation's largest railroad is #174 and ConAgra is #121. This top 100 is comprised of some darn big enterprises.

It may not happen that Mutual of Omaha gets swallowed. But don't be surprised if it does. Back to the point of this thread, I doubt Mutual is in the mood to be putting money into bricks and mortar right now. They probably see themselves as having bigger fish to fry with their available resources.

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:47 pm

Finn wrote:Fortune 500 or not, it could still get swallowed by its larger competitors. Lets hope that the push to develop and sell some of its land holdings will allow for some capital infusion into its core competencies and an increase in revenues. It would hurt for Mutual to get swallowed and lose some employment and its hometown status.

Finn, I am guessing (keyword) that if Mutual of Omaha is ever sold, merged whatever, that we will not see the Mutual of Omaha brand die. Whoever would take it over would probably see its brand image as its greatest source of equity.

The firm taking over could choose to consolidate employment elsewhere as a worst case scenario. But I would guess its stance to the public place is that you would have to read the fine print that MofO is owned by someone else. But we would lose a Fortune 500 in the process I suppose.

Crazy, competitive world we live in.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:01 pm

Yeah come ON people. Why obsess over Mutual... there are a whole host of Omaha companies which could come under acquisition. So why worry about it? If it happens, it happens. At least wait until news of such a take over breaks.

Oh, and on the subject of acquisitions and mergers... it sounds as if Bank of the West may have bigger plans for Omaha than just absorbing Commercial Federal. These scenarios don't always bring gloom and doom ... when THEY DO HAPPEN!

This is like sitting around worrying about how the rest of the nation is going to look upon our horse drawn wagon sculptures. Give me a break!

UNOstudent · Post by **UNOstudent** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:29 pm

as far as bank of the west, they liked many of the buildings that cfb has and some of that has to do w/ the fact that they can get a better building in omaha for the same amount of money compared to SF. they are moving some big mortgage operations center to omaha that will be in the one of the new buildings at 132 and dodge. the 2nd building thats under construction is going to be a data center in the bottom floor w/ offices above. there are also plans for a 3rd building, but i dont know when thatll start, unless it already has. most people that i know in back office depts are keeping their jobs and ill check and see if they have postings for any new jobs in omaha as a result of the merger. if any good info comes along, ill post it. as of now the signs will be changing the first weekend of december, we'll see what happens....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:59 pm

I appreciate your imput guy4omaha..And I share your hope that no M of O 'takeover' ever happens..

Now moving on relevant 'Rumor' discussion..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:02 pm

For the record..that last post was from yours truly..

..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:23 pm

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your imput guy4omaha..And I share your hope that no M of O 'takeover' ever happens..

Now moving on relevant 'Rumor' discussion..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Don't quite understand all the reason for the digs... these phenomena of consolidation and buyouts are interesting to me and I think pertinent to the climate of economic development overall... but for some reason the feedback is I have stepped into a taboo. Not every discussion on the forum is on the top of my interest list either ...

Within the aforementioned industry, that speculation is enough of a rumor that industry analysts get paid for it. But I'm done with this one.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:23 pm

I know how you feel guy.!!?!. I was just stating that a Fortune 500 company could get swallowed by larger competitors (responding to a "malfunctioning thought process") and now we are obsessing on irrelevant matter. Can we discuss on this forum??? (Rhetorical question - not asking for a Cowboy lockdown or Huston note directing me to other forum services!)

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:35 pm

Finn... when I said 'it's still a F500 company' (or something to that effect)... I wasn't suggesting it was immune to acquisition... I was merely reminding everyone that Mutual remains a large company by most measures (at that point in the thread, the subject seemed to be one of suggesting that Mutual is an insignificant company.

I just think it is rather silly to sit around and point out the obvious (only in this case focusing on Mutual of Omaha, for which there has been no indication whatsoever, that it is under the takeover microscope any more than any other firm in the metro)... that in todays business environment... any given business could potentially become the target of acquisition by another larger business.

Oh, and to get down to the real heart of the matter, as you may have surmised... you'll have to pardon me for taking almost anything said negatively about nearly every icon in my city... personally.

EDIT: Now here's a diminishing business story to get down about...
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=46&u_sid=2011896

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:03 pm

jhuston wrote: I just think it is rather silly to sit around and point out the obvious (only in this case focusing on Mutual of Omaha, for which there has been no indication whatsoever, that it is under the takeover microscope any more than any other firm in the metro)... that in todays business environment... any given business could potentially become the target of acquisition by another larger business.

Exactly..Which was the reason for my 'relevant rumor' comment..No 'dig' was intended..

I suppose if people want to continue and 'speculate' about a possible takeover of M of O..

Discuss away..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:05 am

So who is going to watch the Ohio U football game on ESPN2 tonight?

.... how's that for irrelevant?

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:39 am

I will be. We can watch Frank and a future opponent all in one game. I even watched OSU and FAU on the Deuce last night, until my heavy week caught up to me and I fell saleep in the 4th quarter. The B12 doesn't look so tough this year, folks, if that's the best OSU can do against Montana State and Florida Atlantic. I tell ya, I love the coverage that the lower rung teams are receiving in recent years. It makes for a more competitive environment, and really helps elevate the sport as a whole. Unfotrunately, I wish our local cable company would consider carrying ESPNU and CSTV - two channels I enjoyed last year on DirecTV. Hopefully by next season I'll either be back in a place that will allow DirecTV or Cox will decide to carry those channels.

-Big E

NovakOmaha · Post by **NovakOmaha** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:55 pm

Jeff, the thing is that for some reason Omaha entrepreneurs seem to sell out, take the money and run. A few examples: FDR, Sitel, OTC, etc.

When Berkshire bought Midamerican, there was a clause that pretty much forced Berkshire to keep Midamerican in Des Moines. That isnt the end of the world, and it does make sense.

My point is that in more than a few instances the Omaha company seems to be the one that loses the headquarters. UP Corp had its HQ bounced around over the years. When it was in PA., the CEO said that it was better to be there since it was closer to NYC and Washington and that was important. Of course the fact that he preferred to live in PA wasn't mentioned much.

The HQ of a company, more often than not, depends on the whim of the Big Cheese. Take a look at FDR & CSG. Both Omaha-born, yet both now HQ's in Denver. Same with Level 3. I firmly believe that Level 3 moved to Denver because the boss wanted to live in Denver. Yes, there are more high tech workers there, but I just don't buy the arguement that it wouldn't have worked in Omaha. And as we have seen, the company hasn't been the slam dunk it was professed to be.

Of course, I could be wrong. heck, I opened an office in Ohio. Not exactly a well-known high tech state, yet it does have lots of small high tech companies.