Crime in Omaha

General discussion on all things Omaha.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:05 pm

GRANDPASMUCKER wrote:
debradomayer wrote:The parents of the Milton youth didn't show in court because they are both incarcerated. Mom is in York & the Dad is in a Minnesota prison for murder. Nice. Kid didn't stand a chance



I don't know if it is the case here but often when the parents are incarcerated the kids end up with relatives or grand parents. The problem with that rational is that the grandparents may be nice people but if they were any good at parenting they would not have a kid in prison. Too often I have seen people who have already screwed up their own kids getting the opportunity to screw up their grand kids.


We need to get back to a Boystown's that has permanent residence till you are out of high school and then some. Take the kid out of the crazy and put them somewhere they can learn how to live normally, get an education, and maybe get a shot at a trade or decent job.

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HR Paperstacks
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby HR Paperstacks » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:22 pm

bigredmed wrote:We need to get back to a Boystown's that has permanent residence till you are out of high school and then some.

Boys Town doesn't do that anymore?

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby Erik » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:14 pm

There was an article in the paper recently which showed the number of average shootings is down by 30% these last four years from the number of shootings five to ten years ago.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby Professor Woland » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:35 pm

Erik wrote:There was an article in the paper recently which showed the number of average shootings is down by 30% these last four years from the number of shootings five to ten years ago.


Crime has been decreasing steadily since the early nineties. I think there may be a bit of a spike this year so far coupled with a number of high profile events.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:15 am

HR Paperstacks wrote:
bigredmed wrote:We need to get back to a Boystown's that has permanent residence till you are out of high school and then some.

Boys Town doesn't do that anymore?


Their focus is like all other psycho-social agencies, on keeping families together. They will send kids back after a short stay if possible. Tragic when it happens. One of my patients was in school and in JROTC there, you could see the thug paradigm leave him as he figured out how much better normal life was, then his mom got him back. 6 months later, he was the old non compliant D-bag.

We need to get these kids out, put them in a structured environment with long term goal of functionality and then keep them there.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby iamjacobm » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:26 pm

Operation TGIF results in 146 arrests, thousands of dollars in drugs confiscated and a number of guns taken off the streets.

This is obviously a good thing, but sometimes violence spikes after these events with a number of people trying to fill whatever power vacuum this creates.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GRANDPASMUCKER » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:24 pm

iamjacobm wrote:Operation TGIF results in 146 arrests, thousands of dollars in drugs confiscated and a number of guns taken off the streets.

This is obviously a good thing, but sometimes violence spikes after these events with a number of people trying to fill whatever power vacuum this creates.


There is no power vacuum created by a few arrests and guns taken off the street. There are tens of thousands of thugs and guns in the hood! :lol:

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby nativeomahan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:02 am

What evidence exists of "tens of thousands" of criminals "in the hood"? That is an extremely irresponsible comment.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby S33 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:30 am

nativeomahan wrote:What evidence exists of "tens of thousands" of criminals "in the hood"? That is an extremely irresponsible comment.

Yeah, that is definitely an exaggerated figure. There are certainly thousands of gang members, but to exaggerate it to "tens of thousands of criminals" is a big reach.
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GRANDPASMUCKER » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:55 am

nativeomahan wrote:What evidence exists of "tens of thousands" of criminals "in the hood"? That is an extremely irresponsible comment.


Lets see now. The hood starts downtown and reaches all the way to Florence and it starts from the river all the way out to 52nd street. Factor in a realistic unemployment rate in that area of 25%. And you got a heck of alot of people baby! Many of these unemployed people deal in drugs and stolen merchandise for money. Most of these unemployed drug dealing thieving individuals have guns. Most of them have very nice guns like 9 milimeter glocks. And South Omaha is not much better however I dont think the illegal aliens are as into carrying guns. The problem in big cities like ours and Chicago and Kansas city where you have dozens of people getting shot every week is not due to just a couple of gangs feuding. The problem is you have thousands of people running around that are armed and dealing drugs and stealing cars and anything they can get their hands on and are generally up to no good. And many Moms in the hood dont care what junior is doing to get his money all she knows is that big screen tv he set up in the living room is sure nice. Yes I am rooting for Donald Trump!

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GetUrban » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:55 pm

GRANDPASMUCKER wrote:
nativeomahan wrote:What evidence exists of "tens of thousands" of criminals "in the hood"? That is an extremely irresponsible comment.


Lets see now. The hood starts downtown and reaches all the way to Florence and it starts from the river all the way out to 52nd street. Factor in a realistic unemployment rate in that area of 25%. And you got a heck of alot of people baby! Many of these unemployed people deal in drugs and stolen merchandise for money. Most of these unemployed drug dealing thieving individuals have guns. Most of them have very nice guns like 9 milimeter glocks. And South Omaha is not much better however I dont think the illegal aliens are as into carrying guns. The problem in big cities like ours and Chicago and Kansas city where you have dozens of people getting shot every week is not due to just a couple of gangs feuding. The problem is you have thousands of people running around that are armed and dealing drugs and stealing cars and anything they can get their hands on and are generally up to no good. And many Moms in the hood dont care what junior is doing to get his money all she knows is that big screen tv he set up in the living room is sure nice. Yes I am rooting for Donald Trump!


You paint with a very broad brush Mr. SMUCKER. That is classic "white flight" to the suburbs type thinking. I don't think 25% of the population living east of 52nd St. are running around with guns and committing crimes. If you have the hard data to back that up that claim, please share.
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GRANDPASMUCKER » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:33 pm

GetUrban wrote:
GRANDPASMUCKER wrote:
nativeomahan wrote:What evidence exists of "tens of thousands" of criminals "in the hood"? That is an extremely irresponsible comment.


Lets see now. The hood starts downtown and reaches all the way to Florence and it starts from the river all the way out to 52nd street. Factor in a realistic unemployment rate in that area of 25%. And you got a heck of alot of people baby! Many of these unemployed people deal in drugs and stolen merchandise for money. Most of these unemployed drug dealing thieving individuals have guns. Most of them have very nice guns like 9 milimeter glocks. And South Omaha is not much better however I dont think the illegal aliens are as into carrying guns. The problem in big cities like ours and Chicago and Kansas city where you have dozens of people getting shot every week is not due to just a couple of gangs feuding. The problem is you have thousands of people running around that are armed and dealing drugs and stealing cars and anything they can get their hands on and are generally up to no good. And many Moms in the hood dont care what junior is doing to get his money all she knows is that big screen tv he set up in the living room is sure nice. Yes I am rooting for Donald Trump!


You paint with a very broad brush Mr. SMUCKER. That is classic "white flight" to the suburbs type thinking. I don't think 25% of the population living east of 52nd St. are running around with guns and committing crimes. If you have the hard data to back that up that claim, please share.



I did not say that 25% of the people in the hood are doing crime. I said 25% of the people are unemployed. And I am being kind with that 25% figure. Of course depending upon which government official you talk to they might say only 5-10% are unemployed. Truth is 33% would be a more then safe estimate. The old saying poverty is the root of all crime is true. You have all those broke down and depressed people and thats a recipe for trouble.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:38 pm

Schmucker was certainly painting with a broaf brush, but yours is not exactly pencil thin when you use racist terms like "white flight".

As someone who lived through inner city schools of the era, the more correct term is "green flight". As the schools and neighborhoods rotted away, everyone (of all races) with the green flew just as fast as their stack of green would let them.

Ever wonder why country club stayed desirable while Clifton Hill (on the other side of the Blvd) went to |expletive|? Their school was still good in the 60's. People literally moved across the street just to get into that school.

What caused the rapid decline? The influx of ghetto criminality. Once your kids were unsafe in your yard, you call the city and then you found out that one of the " Great Society" programs involved deflating house prices on the north side of Fontenelle, while propping up Country Club. You have lots of nice middle class people who either surrendered their safety and their kids' education or moved and took a bath on their houses. My parents lost 3k off an 11k house they put 3k of improvements into and tried to just sell it for 11k. They weren't the worst burnt.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GetUrban » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:14 pm

"White Flight" is a common term describing one of the biggest reasons a large demographic group of people left the inner cities, which contributed to their decay. Unfortunately, racism played a role, especially after desegregation efforts began in the late 60's - 70's with forced busing, etc. People moved to districts without the need for forced busing, typically.

It usually took some major change in laws to trigger such a mass exodus, otherwise people would typically move out more gradually after they achieved greater wealth.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:33 pm

GetUrban wrote:"White Flight" is a common term describing one of the biggest reasons a large demographic group of people left the inner cities, which contributed to their decay. Unfortunately, racism played a role, especially after desegregation efforts began in the late 60's - 70's with forced busing, etc. People moved to districts without the need for forced busing, typically.

It usually took some major change in laws to trigger such a mass exodus, otherwise people would typically move out more gradually after they achieved greater wealth.


Cracker and other racial terms are also common, but none the less, racist. The use of this term demeans people who faced a simple choice, either stay and accept the rot of your neighborhood, or move. Most of the kids that were in my school and who moved out of my school were black. Fact is that middle class people of all colors used to live in the area, then blew out of there at first chance.

People use that term to broadbrush a bunch of people so they don't have to face the ugly truths about the failure of the Great Society welfare programs. Easier to imply that a bunch of workerbees without any juice are racists for wanting to live in a safe neighborhood, than to lay blame on icons of the left.

It's easier to dismiss guys like schmucker than to face the reality that there are a bunch of people who simply choose to live in a criminal manner.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:05 pm

GRANDPASMUCKER wrote:
nativeomahan wrote:What evidence exists of "tens of thousands" of criminals "in the hood"? That is an extremely irresponsible comment.


Lets see now. The hood starts downtown and reaches all the way to Florence and it starts from the river all the way out to 52nd street. Factor in a realistic unemployment rate in that area of 25%. And you got a heck of alot of people baby! Many of these unemployed people deal in drugs and stolen merchandise for money. Most of these unemployed drug dealing thieving individuals have guns. Most of them have very nice guns like 9 milimeter glocks. And South Omaha is not much better however I dont think the illegal aliens are as into carrying guns. The problem in big cities like ours and Chicago and Kansas city where you have dozens of people getting shot every week is not due to just a couple of gangs feuding. The problem is you have thousands of people running around that are armed and dealing drugs and stealing cars and anything they can get their hands on and are generally up to no good. And many Moms in the hood dont care what junior is doing to get his money all she knows is that big screen tv he set up in the living room is sure nice. Yes I am rooting for Donald Trump!


Friends, there is not one thing that GRANDPASMUCKER has said here that isn't pretty much true. We all care deeply about our city and metro, but at the end of the day, Omaha is NOT Shangra La. Not by a large stretch. Our city has the exact same urban ills of any large, diverse city in the country..

It's in this area a place like Des Moines has it all over Omaha. From a violent, street crime perspective, Omaha and Des Moines are night and day different.. Typically, there are more murders in Omaha in 60 days, than Des Moines/West Des Moines sees in a year or more.. Same can be said for assaults, robberies and other violent crime.. This is where I shake my head and laugh a bit whenever I hear the old, tired and really untrue "Omaha and Des Moines are the same". They really aren't. And in this specific area, they REALLY aren't..and I'm being complimentary to DSM here..

Anywho, Omaha is not perfect, it's becoming the type of diverse and cosmopolitan metro I always envisioned it to be back in my youthful college days in the 80's.. But it has its warts. Again, just like any other large and diverse city in the U.S..

..Ciao..LiO...Peace
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GetUrban » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:52 pm

bigredmed wrote:
GetUrban wrote:"White Flight" is a common term describing one of the biggest reasons a large demographic group of people left the inner cities, which contributed to their decay. Unfortunately, racism played a role, especially after desegregation efforts began in the late 60's - 70's with forced busing, etc. People moved to districts without the need for forced busing, typically.

It usually took some major change in laws to trigger such a mass exodus, otherwise people would typically move out more gradually after they achieved greater wealth.


Cracker and other racial terms are also common, but none the less, racist. The use of this term demeans people who faced a simple choice, either stay and accept the rot of your neighborhood, or move. Most of the kids that were in my school and who moved out of my school were black. Fact is that middle class people of all colors used to live in the area, then blew out of there at first chance.

People use that term to broadbrush a bunch of people so they don't have to face the ugly truths about the failure of the Great Society welfare programs. Easier to imply that a bunch of workerbees without any juice are racists for wanting to live in a safe neighborhood, than to lay blame on icons of the left.

It's easier to dismiss guys like schmucker than to face the reality that there are a bunch of people who simply choose to live in a criminal manner.


Points taken...... maybe a poor choice of words on my part. I was trying to make the point that when a large number of people with good jobs move out of an area, for whatever reason, crime usually escalates and is further worsened by more people leaving and that actually contributes to crime rates increasing.

Now we're seeing crime rates go down in some areas, (not everywhere) because people with good jobs are moving back to areas such as Midtown, Blackstone, Benson, Downtown, Little Italy, etc. Jobs are returning to these areas too.

I just hate to see people write-off whole swaths of Omaha that are still good places to live or still can become good places again.
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby Brad » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:53 pm

Just a random thought here....

Anyone think prison might be the worst thing for anyone, let alone a young person?

Before you run off and call me some tree hugging hippie liberal...

I am not saying let them run free. But our current prison system where they are in "Community Blocks" where they can all congregate and socialize with each other, how does that help? What happens when you put a bunch of like minded people together? They just re-enforce their bad ways.

I wish there was a way where they spent way less time talking to each other and way more time with positive roll-models. Not sure how this could ever work and I am not sure how you can find that many roll models. But locking a bunch of "Bad" people up with other "Bad" people and expecting them to come out changed is just stupid...

They always talk about community schools and community policing, they almost need community jails... Places with small populations, hard work, and lots of positive influences.

[/randomthoughts]
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby HR Paperstacks » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:30 am

Brad wrote:Just a random thought here....

Anyone think prison might be the worst thing for anyone, let alone a young person?

Before you run off and call me some tree hugging hippie liberal...

I am not saying let them run free. But our current prison system where they are in "Community Blocks" where they can all congregate and socialize with each other, how does that help? What happens when you put a bunch of like minded people together? They just re-enforce their bad ways.

I wish there was a way where they spent way less time talking to each other and way more time with positive roll-models. Not sure how this could ever work and I am not sure how you can find that many roll models. But locking a bunch of "Bad" people up with other "Bad" people and expecting them to come out changed is just stupid...

They always talk about community schools and community policing, they almost need community jails... Places with small populations, hard work, and lots of positive influences.

[/randomthoughts]

Our criminal justice system is a joke. I do think that locking up a bunch of bad people together in turn makes all of them worse in the long run. We need to focus on other methods instead of just incarceration. We currently let criminals rot for a certain duration, then let them back out into society and expect them to just fit in and go about their lives like society would like.

I've never thought out what could be done, but there has to be way better treatment options - and it has to be specialized based on the person's need. One glove does not fit all and it will not solve a thing.

When our country has one of the highest (if not the highest) incarceration rates and yet we still can't fix a majority of the problems we face, then you know what we're doing just doesn't work and needs to change.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby guy4omaha » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:06 pm

bigredmed wrote:
GetUrban wrote:"White Flight" is a common term describing one of the biggest reasons a large demographic group of people left the inner cities, which contributed to their decay. Unfortunately, racism played a role, especially after desegregation efforts began in the late 60's - 70's with forced busing, etc. People moved to districts without the need for forced busing, typically.

It usually took some major change in laws to trigger such a mass exodus, otherwise people would typically move out more gradually after they achieved greater wealth.


Cracker and other racial terms are also common, but none the less, racist. The use of this term demeans people who faced a simple choice, either stay and accept the rot of your neighborhood, or move. Most of the kids that were in my school and who moved out of my school were black. Fact is that middle class people of all colors used to live in the area, then blew out of there at first chance.

People use that term to broadbrush a bunch of people so they don't have to face the ugly truths about the failure of the Great Society welfare programs. Easier to imply that a bunch of workerbees without any juice are racists for wanting to live in a safe neighborhood, than to lay blame on icons of the left.

It's easier to dismiss guys like schmucker than to face the reality that there are a bunch of people who simply choose to live in a criminal manner.


+1

BigRedMed, if you haven't already read this book, you may find it quite interesting: The Dream and the Nightmare - The Sixties Legacy to the Underclass by Myron Magnet.
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby NEDodger » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:58 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote:
Brad wrote:Just a random thought here....

Anyone think prison might be the worst thing for anyone, let alone a young person?

Before you run off and call me some tree hugging hippie liberal...

I am not saying let them run free. But our current prison system where they are in "Community Blocks" where they can all congregate and socialize with each other, how does that help? What happens when you put a bunch of like minded people together? They just re-enforce their bad ways.

I wish there was a way where they spent way less time talking to each other and way more time with positive roll-models. Not sure how this could ever work and I am not sure how you can find that many roll models. But locking a bunch of "Bad" people up with other "Bad" people and expecting them to come out changed is just stupid...

They always talk about community schools and community policing, they almost need community jails... Places with small populations, hard work, and lots of positive influences.

[/randomthoughts]

Our criminal justice system is a joke. I do think that locking up a bunch of bad people together in turn makes all of them worse in the long run. We need to focus on other methods instead of just incarceration. We currently let criminals rot for a certain duration, then let them back out into society and expect them to just fit in and go about their lives like society would like.

I've never thought out what could be done, but there has to be way better treatment options - and it has to be specialized based on the person's need. One glove does not fit all and it will not solve a thing.

When our country has one of the highest (if not the highest) incarceration rates and yet we still can't fix a majority of the problems we face, then you know what we're doing just doesn't work and needs to change.


Maybe the rest of society has done all they can and it's time for some of these high-crime communities to take responsibility for what is happening in their neighborhoods.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:16 pm

Take responsibility? You mean like the one thing we have successfully removed from all aspects of their existence? Get a girl pregnant? Give her a ride to the welfare office. No need to get a job and save money for the kid. Get two or three girls pregnant? Why stop there? Get pregnant? You don't have to pay your way, welfare for the next 18 years, and if you have girls, they can get knocked up at age 12 and then you got even more coming in.

Seriously, the reason premarital sex was frowned upon was to lower illegitimacy rates. This was because it has always been hard to raise kids as single parents. So, we set up a welfare program that effectively dismisses all male responsibility past ejaculation, and we have 6 generations of people who can't figure out how to get a job.

But let's just call people racist instead of fixing these programs. Much easier, and more politically correct. Not better, just easier.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby lisanstan » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:53 pm

Holy |expletive|! I live in the hood (52nd St)?!? you'd think my taxes would be lower and my neighbors would be poorer...

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GetUrban » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:17 pm

lisanstan wrote:Holy |expletive|! I live in the hood (52nd St)?!? you'd think my taxes would be lower and my neighbors would be poorer...

....and houses wouldn't sell in less than a week for more than the asking price.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:47 pm

GetUrban wrote:
lisanstan wrote:Holy |expletive|! I live in the hood (52nd St)?!? you'd think my taxes would be lower and my neighbors would be poorer...

....and houses wouldn't sell in less than a week for more than the asking price.


52nd in Dundee is a bit different than 52nd north of Munroe Jr High.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GetUrban » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:17 pm

bigredmed wrote:
GetUrban wrote:
lisanstan wrote:Holy |expletive|! I live in the hood (52nd St)?!? you'd think my taxes would be lower and my neighbors would be poorer...

....and houses wouldn't sell in less than a week for more than the asking price.


52nd in Dundee is a bit different than 52nd north of Munroe Jr High.

GRANDPASMUCKER was not that specific.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:02 am

GetUrban wrote:
bigredmed wrote:
GetUrban wrote:
lisanstan wrote:Holy |expletive|! I live in the hood (52nd St)?!? you'd think my taxes would be lower and my neighbors would be poorer...

....and houses wouldn't sell in less than a week for more than the asking price.


52nd in Dundee is a bit different than 52nd north of Munroe Jr High.

GRANDPASMUCKER was not that specific.


Good point.

Still the "Urbanists" that move to the OM or MTC are in small islands of civility in areas that are very much still a shotgun blast of good and bad neighborhoods admixed together and blasted onto the map of Omaha. In Dundee, your kids could walk the sidewalks as long as they never went east of 50th. Live in 46th and Capitol instead of 52 and Capitol? Life is not the same.

We have a lot to blame ourselves about. Dundee gets city money out the wing wang. The area east of there, gets to pay taxes to keep Dundee cool. We never seem to have a shortage of funds for certain areas of east Omaha, yet for areas just blocks away, we have none. These are the neighborhoods that decline into crime.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GetUrban » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:39 pm

I like to think that the "good" areas have been expanding lately....say over the last 10-15 years...with revitalization even accelerating. There is evidence of this in Midtown, Benson, Blackstone, etc. It's a delicate balance though. An increase in violence can reverse the trend if people don't stand their ground and put a stop to it. And, I don't necessarily think it is gentrification, as long as lower cost housing stock is still available in the areas as they are revitalized. This forum is a great place to watch it happen, btw.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:29 pm

GetUrban wrote:I like to think that the "good" areas have been expanding lately....say over the last 10-15 years...with revitalization even accelerating. There is evidence of this in Midtown, Benson, Blackstone, etc. It's a delicate balance though. An increase in violence can reverse the trend if people don't stand their ground and put a stop to it. And, I don't necessarily think it is gentrification, as long as lower cost housing stock is still available in the areas as they are revitalized. This forum is a great place to watch it happen, btw.


Go 4 blocks north of MTC or 4 blocks east of Dundee. My point is that we have gentrified these two areas and they are fun, but lots of the areas in east Omaha could use shots in the arm from our limited funds that Dundee seems to get more than their share of. Why is that? Juice. People in Dundee have it and the people living in the other areas dont.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby Garrett » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:19 pm

bigredmed wrote:Take responsibility? You mean like the one thing we have successfully removed from all aspects of their existence? Get a girl pregnant? Give her a ride to the welfare office. No need to get a job and save money for the kid. Get two or three girls pregnant? Why stop there? Get pregnant? You don't have to pay your way, welfare for the next 18 years, and if you have girls, they can get knocked up at age 12 and then you got even more coming in.

Seriously, the reason premarital sex was frowned upon was to lower illegitimacy rates. This was because it has always been hard to raise kids as single parents. So, we set up a welfare program that effectively dismisses all male responsibility past ejaculation, and we have 6 generations of people who can't figure out how to get a job.

But let's just call people racist instead of fixing these programs. Much easier, and more politically correct. Not better, just easier.


There are a lot of |expletive| up ways our government acts to screw the impoverished. What if, for example, instead kids getting pregnant, as was offered in your scenario, our schools actually taught about contraception and then contraceptives were made more available. What if, instead of creating a prison system that profits off keeping people in prison, we reformed prisons into a rehabilitation/education system that actually helped people function on their own once they returned to society. What if, instead of offering TIF money to every luxury housing development, TIF was only given to developments that had at least some portion of affordable housing. And what if we did away with the myth of the welfare queen and addressed the problems that cause people to need these vital programs in the first place?
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby lisanstan » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:33 am

I will tell you that in my neighborhood we are very proactive in knowing who we are and what's going on. We have an email list and report crime that happens on our streets. Soliciting (magazine sellers that never result in a magazine delivery, the weird security system people) get called into the police. Neighbors across the street having a nonstop f-word shouting match in the front yard on a Sunday afternoon, cops are called. These things make my neighborhood safer and is a reason houses sometimes sell in one day for more than asking price. We're not immune to crime, we have car break ins, and thefts from our front porches, and murders at the end of our streets, but we are invested in keeping it as safe as possible by working together.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:07 am

lisanstan wrote:I will tell you that in my neighborhood we are very proactive in knowing who we are and what's going on. We have an email list and report crime that happens on our streets. Soliciting (magazine sellers that never result in a magazine delivery, the weird security system people) get called into the police. Neighbors across the street having a nonstop f-word shouting match in the front yard on a Sunday afternoon, cops are called. These things make my neighborhood safer and is a reason houses sometimes sell in one day for more than asking price. We're not immune to crime, we have car break ins, and thefts from our front porches, and murders at the end of our streets, but we are invested in keeping it as safe as possible by working together.


This is what is needed. Good going!

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby S33 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:00 pm

Garrett wrote:
bigredmed wrote:Take responsibility? You mean like the one thing we have successfully removed from all aspects of their existence? Get a girl pregnant? Give her a ride to the welfare office. No need to get a job and save money for the kid. Get two or three girls pregnant? Why stop there? Get pregnant? You don't have to pay your way, welfare for the next 18 years, and if you have girls, they can get knocked up at age 12 and then you got even more coming in.

Seriously, the reason premarital sex was frowned upon was to lower illegitimacy rates. This was because it has always been hard to raise kids as single parents. So, we set up a welfare program that effectively dismisses all male responsibility past ejaculation, and we have 6 generations of people who can't figure out how to get a job.

But let's just call people racist instead of fixing these programs. Much easier, and more politically correct. Not better, just easier.


There are a lot of |expletive| up ways our government acts to screw the impoverished. What if, for example, instead kids getting pregnant, as was offered in your scenario, our schools actually taught about contraception and then contraceptives were made more available. What if, instead of creating a prison system that profits off keeping people in prison, we reformed prisons into a rehabilitation/education system that actually helped people function on their own once they returned to society. What if, instead of offering TIF money to every luxury housing development, TIF was only given to developments that had at least some portion of affordable housing. And what if we did away with the myth of the welfare queen and addressed the problems that cause people to need these vital programs in the first place?

Uh, what if people started being parents, instead of sperm donors and baby incubators?

What if people had a sense of responsibility for their own actions, their children, and their legacy?

Also, TIF for low-rent communities? "Tax increment financing" is (and I'm sure you know this) a public funding mechanism used to create development, many times housing, entertainment and infrastructure, that justifies itself by the theory that these improvements will soon be solvent and create a large enough tax income umbrella to pay off the TIF funding.

How big of a team of idiots do you think it would take to recklessly approve of this abuse of public funds and assume that by creating a facade of a new, respectable community, albeit low-income, then fill it with all the same idiots that have already destroyed their own neighborhoods, would be a good idea?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

May as well just put the money in a suitcase and watch everyone savagely battle for it.

Garrett, you're a smart guy, and will undoubtedly become successful at something, so long as you don't dump your wisdom and formal education to these bullsh*t Marxist ideas.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby S33 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:20 pm

Brad, (sorry, too lazy to quote on my phone) your point above I agree with.

Something that is very wrong with this country, but is swept under the rug because of the class of people if disproportionately affects, is our incarceration policies.

As a country, at a state and local level, we have chosen incarceration over rehabilitation.

As if that weren't troublesome enough, we have chosen to incarcerate a much higher percentage of our citizens than any of nation on earth.

Obviously, if you come from money or have recently obtained it, these policies are far less likely to affect you, because you are afforded recourse in the justice system.

But if you're poor, and you |expletive| up, then you stay poor - and a criminal.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby Garrett » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:21 am

S33 wrote:
Garrett wrote:
bigredmed wrote:Take responsibility? You mean like the one thing we have successfully removed from all aspects of their existence? Get a girl pregnant? Give her a ride to the welfare office. No need to get a job and save money for the kid. Get two or three girls pregnant? Why stop there? Get pregnant? You don't have to pay your way, welfare for the next 18 years, and if you have girls, they can get knocked up at age 12 and then you got even more coming in.

Seriously, the reason premarital sex was frowned upon was to lower illegitimacy rates. This was because it has always been hard to raise kids as single parents. So, we set up a welfare program that effectively dismisses all male responsibility past ejaculation, and we have 6 generations of people who can't figure out how to get a job.

But let's just call people racist instead of fixing these programs. Much easier, and more politically correct. Not better, just easier.


There are a lot of |expletive| up ways our government acts to screw the impoverished. What if, for example, instead kids getting pregnant, as was offered in your scenario, our schools actually taught about contraception and then contraceptives were made more available. What if, instead of creating a prison system that profits off keeping people in prison, we reformed prisons into a rehabilitation/education system that actually helped people function on their own once they returned to society. What if, instead of offering TIF money to every luxury housing development, TIF was only given to developments that had at least some portion of affordable housing. And what if we did away with the myth of the welfare queen and addressed the problems that cause people to need these vital programs in the first place?

Uh, what if people started being parents, instead of sperm donors and baby incubators?

What if people had a sense of responsibility for their own actions, their children, and their legacy?

Also, TIF for low-rent communities? "Tax increment financing" is (and I'm sure you know this) a public funding mechanism used to create development, many times housing, entertainment and infrastructure, that justifies itself by the theory that these improvements will soon be solvent and create a large enough tax income umbrella to pay off the TIF funding.

How big of a team of idiots do you think it would take to recklessly approve of this abuse of public funds and assume that by creating a facade of a new, respectable community, albeit low-income, then fill it with all the same idiots that have already destroyed their own neighborhoods, would be a good idea?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

May as well just put the money in a suitcase and watch everyone savagely battle for it.

Garrett, you're a smart guy, and will undoubtedly become successful at something, so long as you don't dump your wisdom and formal education to these bullsh*t Marxist ideas.


Our teen birthrate is more than 3 times that of Canada, and it essentially the highest in the developed world. While contraception would not be the sole factor in addressing this issue, it's a start that could easily help with crime levels. Unwanted children in poverty are more likely to commit crime, simple as that.

Second, I wasn't suggesting TIF for low-income communities alone. Mixed income communities are what we need. Another component in the cycle of crime and poverty is that when children only experience poverty, that is all they can know. Gangs, drugs, those are methods of escape, of belonging in a society that, in many ways, excludes the poor and creates pariahs out of them. I'm not suggesting anything drastic, say, a minimum of 20% reserved for low income. How is it remotely reasonable for the government to pump money into luxury housing when we're cutting back on housing programs for the poor? You may call me Marxist all you want, but as TIF exists now, it's essentially Marxism for the wealthy. You want to change the crime rate of Omaha, and countless other American cities? Fine. Then give the impoverished access to quality housing, around people of different socioeconomic class. If it hadn't been made clear by the failure of public housing, by the gang wars in North O, then let me spell it out. Isolating the poor into small pockets of the city created this mess in the first place, along with several other failures in both the private and public sectors. Call me
Marxist all you want, but if any of these ideas manage to improve the lives of people in Omaha, Chicago, or Timbuktu, I will wear that label proudly.
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby S33 » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:23 am

I didn't call you a Marxist, first of all.

Secondly, what do you propose would be done to ensure that these mixed-income communities are not plagued by the same crime and social unrest from which a new segment of their residents will move?

Remember, we can't discriminate who moves there, because this is essentially Beverly Hills section8.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby Garrett » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:14 pm

S33 wrote:I didn't call you a Marxist, first of all.

Secondly, what do you propose would be done to ensure that these mixed-income communities are not plagued by the same crime and social unrest from which a new segment of their residents will move?

Remember, we can't discriminate who moves there, because this is essentially Beverly Hills section8.


So what you're saying is every single person who doesn't make a certain amount of money is a criminal? Someone is starting to sound like GrandpaSmucker. It's not like these places would be given away. I'm sure you understand the concept of applying for apartments, right? A well managed building can easily avoid those problems. Study after study has shown that the best and most stabilizing thing people can have is quality housing.
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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby bigredmed » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:36 pm

Garrett wrote:
S33 wrote:I didn't call you a Marxist, first of all.

Secondly, what do you propose would be done to ensure that these mixed-income communities are not plagued by the same crime and social unrest from which a new segment of their residents will move?

Remember, we can't discriminate who moves there, because this is essentially Beverly Hills section8.


So what you're saying is every single person who doesn't make a certain amount of money is a criminal? Someone is starting to sound like GrandpaSmucker. It's not like these places would be given away. I'm sure you understand the concept of applying for apartments, right? A well managed building can easily avoid those problems. Study after study has shown that the best and most stabilizing thing people can have is quality housing.


No, but you assume that a dysfunctional yahoo will suddenly sober up, become a good parent, a reliable employee, and become a republican just by moving next to someone who is. That is irrational.

Whether some is a criminal is the final aspect of a personal decay that begins long before criminality shows up. The dysfunction that causes people to slide down hill socioeconomically, is often manifested by loudness, rudeness, intoxication, and lack of job duties allowing for every day to be Saturday night, so no need to go to bed before 3 am. This po's their non-dysfunctional neighbors who pretty quick move to the neighborhood with gates (literal or economic).

Move into a crappy crimey neighborhood. Do a study. Question: which happens first, you move or your neighbors become independent of welfare.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GRANDPASMUCKER » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:38 pm

The Timber Creek Apts out here in Millard are located at 138th & Harrison. These apts were once safe and nice. Not so much anymore. About 10 years ago they started moving Section 8 and gov assisted housing people in there. Since then the police helicopter has got to be a fairly common site hovering around that complex. Since the down and out and underprivileged have been brought in there have been a number of car jackings at 138th & Harrison. Millard is still a pretty nice and safe area but if you are near that apt complex you better keep your eyes open and watch your back. "You can take the man out of the hood but you cant take the hood out of the man." Or there was the version "You can take the man out of North "O" but you cant take the North "O" out of the man.

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Re: Crime in Omaha

Postby GetUrban » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:00 pm

S33 wrote:
Move into a crappy crimey neighborhood. Do a study. Question: which happens first, you move or your neighbors become independent of welfare.


There are examples where neighborhoods are re-claimed from crime and become good, safe places to live again. What happens is property values become super-low in high crime areas, then some new catalyst for new development comes along and goes into the area. (ie Midtown Crossing) Then savy people see an opportunity to pick up a rehab-able house or property for dirt cheap, then they flip it for a profit or even live there for themselves and the slide into a poverty-stricken neighborhood is reversed. It takes urban pioneers to make it happen. (If the houses stay mostly rental property, all bets are off.)

Here's an article that was posted on Eomaha in the "Southern Riverfront - Old Power Plant" thread last year...

http://www.citylab.com/work/2012/05/how-and-why-american-cities-are-coming-back/2015/
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.


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