Urban vs Suburban Debate

General discussion on all things Omaha.

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Brad
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Post by Brad »

Coyote wrote:
5280 wrote:Urbanite vs. Suburbanite

Twenty miles is...

Urbanite: A day trip.
Suburbanite: A one-way trip to work.

You secretly think...

Urbanite: Your suburban friends are bad with money; they paid way too much for that five-bedroom cookie-cutter monstrosity.
Suburbanite: Your city friends are bad with money; they pay rent.

You can’t live without...

Urbanite: Fresh sushi.
Suburbanite: Freshly cut grass.

A bicycle is...

Urbanite: An eco-friendly form of transportation.
Suburbanite: A child’s plaything.

You think you’re cool...

Urbanite: Because you have three plots in your community’s urban garden.
Suburbanite: Because you have a three-car garage—and a garden.

Your bumper sticker says...

Urbanite: “Coexist.”
Suburbanite: “My child is an honor student at (insert school name).”

Your most annoying conversational habit is...

Urbanite: Telling your suburban friends about the great Moroccan joint that just opened down the street that serves the most amazing harira soup—and gosh you haven’t had that since your last visit to North Africa.
Suburbanite: Telling your city friends that they could have a place the size of Morocco if they bought the house next door to you.

A neighbor’s dog just “number two’d” on someone else’s lawn. You...

Urbanite: Burst out of your town house and scold the dog owner about the need to preserve green spaces.
Suburbanite: Call your homeowners association and log an anonymous complaint.

Giving directions to Little Raven Street...

Urbanite: Is easy. Obviously, it’s the street downtown where Zengo is located.
Suburbanite: Is easy. Obviously, it’s the street after Little Raven Road that forks off of Little Raven Boulevard right before it turns into Little Raven Circle and loops around Little Raven Park.

You’re cutting it close for dinner downtown and can’t find parking. You...

Urbanite: Skip the appetizers and drive around the block 14 times until a spot opens up.
Suburbanite: Skip dinner altogether and drive 14 miles home.

You’ve just visited friends who live a half hour away. Your first thought as the door closes on your way out is...

Urbanite: How can they live like this?
Suburbanite: How can they live like this?
PERFECT!

:like:

blol
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Post by DTO Luv »

Coyote wrote: Urbanite: Skip the appetizers and drive around the block 14 times until a spot opens up.
Suburbanite: Skip dinner altogether and drive 14 miles home.

l
Like we would drive.
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Post by Omababe »

Your bumper sticker says...

Urbanite: “Coexist.”
Suburbanite: “My child is an honor student at (insert school name).”
More like the urbanite does not have a vehicle with a bumper on which to put such a sticker! :)
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Post by mrdwhsr »

Hey! What's the big idea inserting humor into this rant?

8)
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Big E
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Post by Big E »

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110418/H ... etro-title
Quentin Urban hit a walk-off three-run home run to lead second-ranked Millard South to a 6-3 win over No. 1 Papillion-La Vista South in the championship game of the Metro Conference baseball tournament Monday at Millard South.
The Suburbanite would have loaded all three players into the minivan and driven them around the basepaths.
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Post by TechnicalDisaster »

Big E wrote:http://www.omaha.com/article/20110418/H ... etro-title
Quentin Urban hit a walk-off three-run home run to lead second-ranked Millard South to a 6-3 win over No. 1 Papillion-La Vista South in the championship game of the Metro Conference baseball tournament Monday at Millard South.
The Suburbanite would have loaded all three players into the minivan and driven them around the basepaths.
LOL.  The urbanite would have picked up the bases and stacked them on top of each other to increase density.
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Post by Big E »

We would have stolen the bases and sold them at Sol's.
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Post by S33 »

More liked chopped the bases up, smoked half, and then sold half to school kids as they walked to Central.
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Post by Big E »

S33 wrote:More liked chopped the bases up, smoked half, and then sold half to school kids as they walked to Central.
They're broke, remember?  You have to go out west to find kids with the kind of disposable income that can afford the high grade |expletive|.
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Post by S33 »

I'm sure they could find a way to make the government pay for it.  :)  Just joking, not seriously trying to start that conversation.
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Post by OmahaBen »

Big E wrote:http://www.omaha.com/article/20110418/H ... etro-title
Quentin Urban hit a walk-off three-run home run to lead second-ranked Millard South to a 6-3 win over No. 1 Papillion-La Vista South in the championship game of the Metro Conference baseball tournament Monday at Millard South.
The Suburbanite would have loaded all three players into the minivan and driven them around the basepaths.
So how do you explain Keith Urban singing country? Is that his way of rebelling from the Urban clan? Seems a bit fishy, if you ask me.
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Post by Big E »

I can't explain anybody singing country, to be honest.
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Post by Big E »

Just happened to catch a ticker mention on CNBC about a program tomorrow night:

"Sprawling from Grace: The Consequences of Suburbanization" @ 9p (Cox HD ch 722)

Other than seeing that it is scheduled and DVRing it, I know nothing about it.
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Big E
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Post by Big E »

Really nothing new to see on the above show that hasn't been said and ignored ad nauseum on this forum.  Not going to change the minds of any forumers, but a good watch for people that have never thought about the issue.

An otherwise unlreated interesting read on CNN.com:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/21/h ... tml?hpt=T2
(CNN) -- "Stop the Train" was, literally, a rallying cry for post-Tea Party Republicans this past November.

Newly elected GOP governors in Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida have canceled already-funded high speed rail projects.

Much of the opposition to rail projects appears to stem not from economic arguments, but from fundamental cultural values on what "American" transportation should be.

A perusal of online commentaries about passenger rail stories reveals a curious linkage by writers between passenger rail and "European socialism."

Never mind that the majority of European passenger rail operates on a commercial basis.

Many critics of passenger rail emotionally identify it as an enabler of cultural values they fear.
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Post by S33 »

That's cr-ap. Those projects get derailed for partisan and budget reasons, not from fundamentalism. Passenger trains, in various applications, have been a part of our transportation infrastructure since the steam engines of the 1800's.

Get the budget under control and watch, people will most certainly be on board. Linking this to the tea party is a cop out so they don't have to discuss the real reasons why these projects aren't happening.

Go figure, It's a CNN "opinion" piece, though. I wouldn't expect anything less from it.
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Post by mrdwhsr »

I have a difficult time calling 79 mile-per-hour passenger trains "High Speed Rail".

This makes it very difficult to believe the politicians and media people who call 79 mile-per-hour passenger trains "High Speed Rail" have the slightest idea what they are talking about.
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Post by Brad »

mrdwhsr wrote:I have a difficult time calling 79 mile-per-hour passenger trains "High Speed Rail".

This makes it very difficult to believe the politicians and media people who call 79 mile-per-hour passenger trains "High Speed Rail" have the slightest idea what they are talking about.
Not that its a huge difference, the Last issue of Trains Magazine had a whole section on high speed Rail and they were talking 110 mph.
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Post by Big E »

S33 wrote:That's cr-ap. Those projects get derailed for partisan and budget reasons, not from fundamentalism.

...

Linking this to the tea party is a cop out so they don't have to discuss the real reasons why these projects aren't happening.
I think the point he is making is for the people he's talking about (parts of the Tea Party being a part of an overall group of railhaters, whatever the individual's or sub-group's reasoning), partisanship and budget reasons are fundamentalism.  Distinction without difference in this case.

In other words, the people that will b!tch about rail will b!tch about rail regardless of funding, support, feasibility, or profitability.
Last edited by Big E on Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by S33 »

I can see that. On the other hand, if it were the republicans promoting such and idea, it would just be a faster way to deport the Mexicans, you know?
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Post by mrdwhsr »

Brad wrote:
mrdwhsr wrote:I have a difficult time calling 79 mile-per-hour passenger trains "High Speed Rail".

This makes it very difficult to believe the politicians and media people who call 79 mile-per-hour passenger trains "High Speed Rail" have the slightest idea what they are talking about.
Not that its a huge difference, the Last issue of Trains Magazine had a whole section on high speed Rail and they were talking 110 mph.
I like Trains' use of the term "Higher Speed Rail". Less Madison Avenue, more accuracy.
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Post by Big E »

I thought this section was particularly interesting:
Passenger rail is a threat to the subsidy of rural highway systems, and rural economic development in general. Like rural free delivery of mail, and the 1935 Rural Electrification Administration, the 1956 interstate highway program provides a subsidy for the development of rural areas with taxes collected in urban areas.

Popular understanding is that the highway funding system is a "pay as you go" system, a socially just system, supported completely by fuel taxes. The assumption is that fuel use is proportional to miles driven, and thus highway funding is proportional to use.

The reality is entirely different.

Fuel taxes are disproportionately paid by urban users (note - for this article I interpret this as "non-rural"), driving on local roads (which, by the way, are often not funded by fuel taxes), and idling in traffic jams.

These funds then frequently support the construction of highways in unpopulated areas for the purpose of economic development.

The last truism is especially upsetting to rail advocates, because while the rail projects in Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida were required to show their utility in the first year of operation, highways are frequently built before the economic development and traffic demand exist.
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Post by S33 »

I think anyone can sympathize with the rail advocates and the hypocrisy of holding roadways to a different standard than rail, but I don't think it will be to their benefit to start complaining about who pays a disproportionate amount of taxes. That's a whole 'nother ball of hypocrisy in and of itself.
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Post by almighty_tuna »

That paragraph alone can provide a year's worth of arguments around here.  If we can find a way to fit in bike racks on hi-speed rail then we're golden for another 2yrs.

Seriously though.  Is it really that illogical that the areas which serve the most people (and where the bulk of revenue is generated) should get funding priority?  Considering that rural population is declining it doesn't make sense to throw a bunch of money to build a 150mi 4-lane expressway in a sparsely populated area which sees daily traffic counts that barely scratch 10,000 - Scottsbluff/Gering in this example.

Traffic count source (2008 data): http://www.dor.state.ne.us/maps/#traffvol
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Post by S33 »

I don't see much wrong with the paragraph, really, it is definitely that side of the argument and legit. I just think arguing about "paying their fair share" is pretty futile as we rely upon our nations top earners to pay far more than their fair share in taxes and have for a long, long time. (not that I have any sympathy for them, but it certainly doesn't help support the initial argument)

On top of that, we can't just stop funding access to the millions of people in the thousands of rural communities across the country. If we can justify doing that, then we may as well, in principle, cut off funding for the poor and aid to the elderly - since they tend to use far more of our country's monetary assets than the average, healthy working person.

That said, I still think rail should be held to the same standard as roads and considered a viable form of transportation for the majority of the country, but I don't think taking away from the rural population to give to the urban population is the right way to go. We dug our own grave and now we have to lay in it while we gradually transition to a more sustainable system.
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Post by Brad »

Has this been posted yet?

[youtube][/youtube]
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Post by StreetsOfOmaha »

Has this been posted yet? It's pretty awesome: tongue-in-cheek and funny, but drives home the message.

"How to sell high speed rail - Mad Men style"

http://www.good.is/post/how-to-sell-hig ... men-style/

I'll post in the HSR Myth thread, too.
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Post by Garrett »

Heheheheh I find it ironic how at the end they say buy a bumper sticker to show your support.
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Post by StreetsOfOmaha »

Yes, many people have pointed that out. I don't think it's ironic, so much as sad, since car ownership and dependence is so ubiquitous in our culture that bumper stickers have become such a predominant means of displaying our politics. Furthermore, I'm sure the creators were aware of the humor in that.
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Post by Big E »

I think it's commendable you don't want your neighbors hearing you get your freaky-freak on.
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Post by Brad »

OWH - Breaking Brad wrote:A $1.2 million, 216-acre park has just opened at 192nd and West Dodge Road in a subdivision called Five Fountains. Or, as people over 30 who grew up in Omaha call 192nd and West Dodge Road, "halfway to Fremont."

They needed a big, new park at 192nd and Dodge. Kids out there need a place to go to escape the gritty urban environment they live in. Get this — I heard about one kid in the neighborhood whose backyard lacrosse court isn't even regulation size.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20110504/N ... brad-may-4
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Post by StreetsOfOmaha »

Big E wrote:I thought this section was particularly interesting:
Passenger rail is a threat to the subsidy of rural highway systems, and rural economic development in general. Like rural free delivery of mail, and the 1935 Rural Electrification Administration, the 1956 interstate highway program provides a subsidy for the development of rural areas with taxes collected in urban areas.

Popular understanding is that the highway funding system is a "pay as you go" system, a socially just system, supported completely by fuel taxes. The assumption is that fuel use is proportional to miles driven, and thus highway funding is proportional to use.

The reality is entirely different.

Fuel taxes are disproportionately paid by urban users (note - for this article I interpret this as "non-rural"), driving on local roads (which, by the way, are often not funded by fuel taxes), and idling in traffic jams.

These funds then frequently support the construction of highways in unpopulated areas for the purpose of economic development.

The last truism is especially upsetting to rail advocates, because while the rail projects in Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida were required to show their utility in the first year of operation, highways are frequently built before the economic development and traffic demand exist.
I missed this before. Exactly, exactly, exactly right.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
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Post by OmahaBen »

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
Big E wrote:I thought this section was particularly interesting:
Passenger rail is a threat to the subsidy of rural highway systems, and rural economic development in general. Like rural free delivery of mail, and the 1935 Rural Electrification Administration, the 1956 interstate highway program provides a subsidy for the development of rural areas with taxes collected in urban areas.

Popular understanding is that the highway funding system is a "pay as you go" system, a socially just system, supported completely by fuel taxes. The assumption is that fuel use is proportional to miles driven, and thus highway funding is proportional to use.

The reality is entirely different.

Fuel taxes are disproportionately paid by urban users (note - for this article I interpret this as "non-rural"), driving on local roads (which, by the way, are often not funded by fuel taxes), and idling in traffic jams.

These funds then frequently support the construction of highways in unpopulated areas for the purpose of economic development.

The last truism is especially upsetting to rail advocates, because while the rail projects in Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida were required to show their utility in the first year of operation, highways are frequently built before the economic development and traffic demand exist.
I missed this before. Exactly, exactly, exactly right.
Yes and no.

Certainly, I-80* is a boon to those rural towns and counties that could not afford to build it themselves. To that extent, it is a subsidization of rural areas and rural states at the expense of urban areas and densely populated states.

That said, what's the point of an I-80 that goes from New York to the Appalachians, stops, restarts in pittsburgh and goes to Chicago, stops, restarts in the Quad Cities, stops again in Lincoln, restarts in Salt Lake City and then ends in San Fransisco? One of the inherent benefits of I-80 is the fact that it is a coast-to-coast continuous highway without any gaps. You can drive from Omaha to New York City if needed, thanks to the federal highway funds. So while the dollars are nominally flowing from say New York to Wyoming to help build I-80, that's kind of the point. I-80 is not worth nearly as much as a whole, even in New York, if it's a series of fits and starts rather than one continuous highway.

* I use I-80 for illustration purposes. The same reasoning applies to the federal highway system in general, though.
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Post by Linkin5 »

Brad wrote:
OWH - Breaking Brad wrote:A $1.2 million, 216-acre park has just opened at 192nd and West Dodge Road in a subdivision called Five Fountains. Or, as people over 30 who grew up in Omaha call 192nd and West Dodge Road, "halfway to Fremont."

They needed a big, new park at 192nd and Dodge. Kids out there need a place to go to escape the gritty urban environment they live in. Get this — I heard about one kid in the neighborhood whose backyard lacrosse court isn't even regulation size.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20110504/N ... brad-may-4
Something needs to be done to stop Breaking Brad from writing for any media outlet.  Every "joke" is the most uncreative |expletive| and makes you want to say "HEY OHHHHHH!" afterwards.
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Post by StreetsOfOmaha »

I believe the quote is referring to rural highways, not the interstate system. Of course the interstate system needed to be continuous because it was justified for defense purposes.
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Post by iamjacobm »

Interesting poll from the OWH.
Downtown Apartments
Six new apartment complexes are in the works for the edge of downtown Omaha. Does urban living appeal to you?

» Yep, I love the city
 35%

» Nope, I'll stick to the suburbs
 41%

» Depends on the price tag
 24%


Total Votes: 712
That is closer than I thought it would be.
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Post by HuskerDave »

Linkin5 wrote:
Brad wrote:
OWH - Breaking Brad wrote:A $1.2 million, 216-acre park has just opened at 192nd and West Dodge Road in a subdivision called Five Fountains. Or, as people over 30 who grew up in Omaha call 192nd and West Dodge Road, "halfway to Fremont."

They needed a big, new park at 192nd and Dodge. Kids out there need a place to go to escape the gritty urban environment they live in. Get this — I heard about one kid in the neighborhood whose backyard lacrosse court isn't even regulation size.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20110504/N ... brad-may-4
Something needs to be done to stop Breaking Brad from writing for any media outlet.  Every "joke" is the most uncreative |expletive| and makes you want to say "HEY OHHHHHH!" afterwards.
I agree.  I have yet to see anything funny.  Just moronic and jealous rants.
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Post by bigredmed »

HuskerDave wrote:
Linkin5 wrote:
Brad wrote:
OWH - Breaking Brad wrote:A $1.2 million, 216-acre park has just opened at 192nd and West Dodge Road in a subdivision called Five Fountains. Or, as people over 30 who grew up in Omaha call 192nd and West Dodge Road, "halfway to Fremont."

They needed a big, new park at 192nd and Dodge. Kids out there need a place to go to escape the gritty urban environment they live in. Get this — I heard about one kid in the neighborhood whose backyard lacrosse court isn't even regulation size.
http://www.omaha.com/article/20110504/N ... brad-may-4
Something needs to be done to stop Breaking Brad from writing for any media outlet.  Every "joke" is the most uncreative |expletive| and makes you want to say "HEY OHHHHHH!" afterwards.
I agree.  I have yet to see anything funny.  Just moronic and jealous rants.
You can certainly tell that he used to write for Leno.   Every thing he writes sounds like a Leno monologue.
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Re: Urban vs Suburban Debate

Post by choke »

Per Cindy Gonzalez / World-Herald staff writer:
North Park is jewel in the crown of Omaha market for commercial real estate
“Companies that previously wouldn’t consider downtown may be forced to,” said Steve Sheppard of CBRE/Mega Commercial Real Estate. “Fortunately there are several great options in the Central Business District.”
Among the upcoming structures is developer Ron Cizek’s West Dodge Hills office building near 181st Street and Burke Streets. Ground work has started, and Cizek expects the 150,000-square-foot building to start to rise this spring and be completed in 2018.

The 14-acre site has room for a second building. Cizek bought the land and started his project without having secured any tenants. While such speculative building is a risk, Cizek is confident he’ll fill the space. “We do the Kevin Costner deal: Build it and they will come.”

Cizek said that in his experience, most companies don’t like waiting three or so years to plan out a newly constructed home. He said the time for bringing a new office building to the market was right, noting an overall vacancy rate in his dozen office buildings of below 5 percent.
“At this moment in time, Omaha is really a hot place to be,” Zoob said. “Culturally it’s changing with things happening at our zoo, and this great study on the riverfront. The buzz is positive.”
http://www.omaha.com/money/north-park-i ... bb8ab.html
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Re: Urban vs Suburban Debate

Post by Omababe »

Collier's, huh? So that's where Barry Z. landed. :)
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