Downtown HDR Corporate Headquarters

Proposed Development Projects that got Minarded.

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RNcyanide
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by RNcyanide »

They are paying for this building out of their own pocket. They probably built what they could afford. I'm sure they wanted more, but with their lease running out, they probably couldn't wait any longer to build their new offices. I also know that they didn't want to hassle with leasing space out to tenants, although I'm not sure of the reason.
As for kiewit, I'm not sure why they didn't join up with HDR's office, but with the current tone in North Downtown, paired with the height restrictions placed by TDAP, they couldn't build anything taller as not to obstruct their view of downtown. Perhaps if the old Marriott was build instead of the Hilton, we'd have some taller buildings down there.
As for the design, the last four or five pages make it pretty clear what the general opinion is here, so if the design is simple, they better nail the details and use high quality exterior finishes. And for |expletive| sake, they better hide that parking garage.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Torsten Adair »

S33 wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:The design is pretty standard for HDR. Judging from their portfolio, it isn't watered down compared to what they normally produce for clients.

That said, the hype was probably a little much. Or were we mostly hyping ourselves up?
I think you and Midwestern hit the nail on the head regarding the reactions on the forum to this new HDR HQ design. I can understand the disappointment to a certain degree.. I mean, it won't be a "skyline defining" "shiver me timbers" high rise.. But that all taken into consideration, how cool is it to have another Omaha born company commit to downtown and move their world headquarters there.. More people, more lively, more foot traffic, more sustainability.. Omaha's downtown is stronger with this HQ move.. Regardless the design..

And while I don't think, obviously, the design is "over the top", it will look much better once completed and placed within the skyline.. Than any rendering can do it justice..

In the end, I like it, I'll take it. And along with the Capitol District project, it will make Downtown more well rounded and complete..

It's not Shangra la folks, but honestly- what is? Well, maybe central Iowa.. But that's it, lol...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
all of that is great. Obviously it speaks volumes for HDR's commitment to Omaha to not only relocate its headquarters downtown, but to build a new mid-rise structure.

But while specifically discussing the buildings aesthetics, everyone was being honest. If I think the building is ugly, I'm not going to instead say, well at least it's downtown; I'll say it's ugly.

That was just an example, as I don't think the building is ugly, I guess I just expected more from a group of architects who have work in their portfolio far more impressive than what they created for themselves.
What skyline? A 16-storey building will add little to downtown. Without density, there will be no "downtown"... just another office park in Omaha. Without density, you don't have a neighborhood. Without density, there's little need for a streetcar or even buses.

Omaha's densest zip codes are the two between 24th and 45th Streets, I-80 to Charles. Roughly 7K/sq.mi.
Compare to 68102/Downtown.
It ranks 12th in Omaha zip codes by density (#2,867 nationwide). 3400/sq.mi.
Population: 5,240. 27th out of 30 zip codes.
The same density as 68144 (Pacific/114th/C/156th).
http://zipatlas.com/us/ne/omaha/zip-cod ... ensity.htm
Figure out a way to get Downtown up to 10,000/square mile, and then you'll have a downtown which can compete with bigger cities, and which will be a destination for area residents.
You don't even have to build a canyon of towers. My zip code of 11221 has 55K/sq.mi. (#44), and it's mostly 5-storey brownstones.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Torsten Adair »

RNcyanide wrote:They are paying for this building out of their own pocket. They probably built what they could afford. I'm sure they wanted more, but with their lease running out, they probably couldn't wait any longer to build their new offices. I also know that they didn't want to hassle with leasing space out to tenants, although I'm not sure of the reason.
As for kiewit, I'm not sure why they didn't join up with HDR's office, but with the current tone in North Downtown, paired with the height restrictions placed by TDAP, they couldn't build anything taller as not to obstruct their view of downtown. Perhaps if the old Marriott was build instead of the Hilton, we'd have some taller buildings down there.
As for the design, the last four or five pages make it pretty clear what the general opinion is here, so if the design is simple, they better nail the details and use high quality exterior finishes. And for |expletive| sake, they better hide that parking garage.
TDAP? You mean the baseball stadium? (I call it the TD Bowl.)
What height restrictions? Source, please?
View of downtown... Wouldn't another skyscraper add to the scenic skyline of Omaha? Especially a building six blocks away?
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Midwestern »

68102 includes a large amount of land that definitely wouldn't be considered "downtown", and also a fair amount of industrial zoned land.

So saying the density of 68102 is the density of Downtown Omaha is almost meaningless.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Torsten Adair »

Omaha Cowboy wrote:I think you and Midwestern hit the nail on the head regarding the reactions on the forum to this new HDR HQ design. I can understand the disappointment to a certain degree.. I mean, it won't be a "skyline defining" "shiver me timbers" high rise.. But that all taken into consideration, how cool is it to have another Omaha born company commit to downtown and move their world headquarters there.. More people, more lively, more foot traffic, more sustainability.. Omaha's downtown is stronger with this HQ move.. Regardless the design..
You mean like ConAgra's corporate headquarters? }]
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by RNcyanide »

Torsten Adair wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:They are paying for this building out of their own pocket. They probably built what they could afford. I'm sure they wanted more, but with their lease running out, they probably couldn't wait any longer to build their new offices. I also know that they didn't want to hassle with leasing space out to tenants, although I'm not sure of the reason.
As for kiewit, I'm not sure why they didn't join up with HDR's office, but with the current tone in North Downtown, paired with the height restrictions placed by TDAP, they couldn't build anything taller as not to obstruct their view of downtown. Perhaps if the old Marriott was build instead of the Hilton, we'd have some taller buildings down there.
As for the design, the last four or five pages make it pretty clear what the general opinion is here, so if the design is simple, they better nail the details and use high quality exterior finishes. And for |expletive| sake, they better hide that parking garage.
TDAP? You mean the baseball stadium? (I call it the TD Bowl.)
What height restrictions? Source, please?
View of downtown... Wouldn't another skyscraper add to the scenic skyline of Omaha? Especially a building six blocks away?
Its buried in another thread in the urban forum, possibly in the Lot B development thread late last year. It was mentioned by another forum member. Sorry that I can't get more specific than that for now.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by iamjacobm »

MECA doesn't want a high rise on Lot B.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by RNcyanide »

iamjacobm wrote:MECA doesn't want a high rise on Lot B.
There we go. I must have assumed that was for ALL of North Downtown.

Thank you!!
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Torsten Adair »

Midwestern wrote:68102 includes a large amount of land that definitely wouldn't be considered "downtown", and also a fair amount of industrial zoned land.

So saying the density of 68102 is the density of Downtown Omaha is almost meaningless.
Look at this map:
http://zipatlas.com/us/ne/omaha/zip-68102.htm
That zipcode covers most of downtown.
river-railroad/Leavenworth/24th/Nicholas.

If you have a better source, then I'd like to know. Census tracts, perhaps? (I'm not adept at searching that data.) (What are the geographic boundaries for "downtown"?)
The population for that zip code is meager: 6,102
http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/nav/ ... l?src=bkmk

How much of that area was zoned industrial before redevelopment?
How many people actually lived downtown in the 70s? Wasn't it primarily industrial/commercial? (Hence the title "Central Business District".)
How much of zip codes in western Omaha are also zoned industrial or commercial? Even with sprawl, those zip codes are denser than 68102.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

Torsten Adair wrote:
S33 wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:The design is pretty standard for HDR. Judging from their portfolio, it isn't watered down compared to what they normally produce for clients.

That said, the hype was probably a little much. Or were we mostly hyping ourselves up?
I think you and Midwestern hit the nail on the head regarding the reactions on the forum to this new HDR HQ design. I can understand the disappointment to a certain degree.. I mean, it won't be a "skyline defining" "shiver me timbers" high rise.. But that all taken into consideration, how cool is it to have another Omaha born company commit to downtown and move their world headquarters there.. More people, more lively, more foot traffic, more sustainability.. Omaha's downtown is stronger with this HQ move.. Regardless the design..

And while I don't think, obviously, the design is "over the top", it will look much better once completed and placed within the skyline.. Than any rendering can do it justice..

In the end, I like it, I'll take it. And along with the Capitol District project, it will make Downtown more well rounded and complete..

It's not Shangra la folks, but honestly- what is? Well, maybe central Iowa.. But that's it, lol...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
all of that is great. Obviously it speaks volumes for HDR's commitment to Omaha to not only relocate its headquarters downtown, but to build a new mid-rise structure.

But while specifically discussing the buildings aesthetics, everyone was being honest. If I think the building is ugly, I'm not going to instead say, well at least it's downtown; I'll say it's ugly.

That was just an example, as I don't think the building is ugly, I guess I just expected more from a group of architects who have work in their portfolio far more impressive than what they created for themselves.
What skyline? A 16-storey building will add little to downtown. Without density, there will be no "downtown"... just another office park in Omaha. Without density, you don't have a neighborhood. Without density, there's little need for a streetcar or even buses.

Omaha's densest zip codes are the two between 24th and 45th Streets, I-80 to Charles. Roughly 7K/sq.mi.
Compare to 68102/Downtown.
It ranks 12th in Omaha zip codes by density (#2,867 nationwide). 3400/sq.mi.
Population: 5,240. 27th out of 30 zip codes.
The same density as 68144 (Pacific/114th/C/156th).
http://zipatlas.com/us/ne/omaha/zip-cod ... ensity.htm
Figure out a way to get Downtown up to 10,000/square mile, and then you'll have a downtown which can compete with bigger cities, and which will be a destination for area residents.
You don't even have to build a canyon of towers. My zip code of 11221 has 55K/sq.mi. (#44), and it's mostly 5-storey brownstones.
that is a 14 story building, and until you acknowledge that, I will consider any and all comments from you, irrelevant.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Stargazer »

I'd say we're doing just fine among our midwestern peers ( http://allcolumbusdata.com/?p=1079
). It should come as no shock that, a downtown which was predominantly office/warehouse use for the past 50 years, doesn't have a high population density. That said, it's very likely one of, if not the fastest growing area east of 72nd Street. Of course we're never going to see NYC density, as long as it's a 20 minute drive in from the sticks. I find it comical, that you're placing the 'cart before the horse'. How about, "without demand, there is no density".
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

No, we should be building to anticipate and/or drive the demand.

The largest real estate market on the globe is really pumping on all cylinders from that method!

/insert sarcasm emoji
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

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Placing cart before the horse is a common requirement since the evil, horrible, awful HDR design was announced two weeks ago.. Automatically, it's going to suck for Omaha.. |expletive|, I'd recommend HDR build out WEST by Lakeside Hospital.. Anywhere but downtown with this horrible, squaty 14 or 16 story behemoth..

How dare HDR commit to downtown with this "sh!tty design". Just don't build at all!!!..

:roll: ...

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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by iamjacobm »

I am shocked there is even retail in this building honestly. I had heard that they wanted no part of a shared building and wanted too much control over the development and that is why they aren't in one of the previously announced projects.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

Omaha Cowboy wrote:Placing cart before the horse is a common requirement since the evil, horrible, awful HDR design was announced two weeks ago.. Automatically, it's going to suck for Omaha.. |expletive|, I'd recommend HDR build out WEST by Lakeside Hospital.. Anywhere but downtown with this horrible, squaty 14 or 16 story behemoth..

How dare HDR commit to downtown with this "sh!tty design". Just don't build at all!!!..

:roll: ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
I don't think most of us think it's a horrible design. At first glance (and it's just a rendering, I might add), it looks rather uninspiring.

It's a world class architecture firm; of course we anticipated more. But it's their building, and it's their money. If they chose to keep the design and scope a bit more conservative, that is their right.

But it remains our right to scrutinize the appearance of the building ;)
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Busguy2010 »

With all the criticism on the design and height, I beg the question; Would we rather have this built at 84th and Dodge?

If in 5 years we all see this building at 84th and Dodge, we'd all be thinking "coulda woulda shoulda".
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

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Busguy2010 wrote:With all the criticism on the design and height, I beg the question; Would we rather have this built at 84th and Dodge?

If in 5 years we all see this building at 84th and Dodge, we'd all be thinking "coulda woulda shoulda".
That's not even a logical question.

You're creating fictitious sample sizes and scenarios to prove an argument.

It was never an option that this building went on 84th.

The fact that they chose to build downtown, has little to do with how conservative their design is.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

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HDR read all our criticism and they are now designing a very interesting 52 story building ... with blackjack and hookers.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

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HR Paperstacks wrote:HDR read all our criticism and they are now designing a very interesting 52 story building ... with blackjack and hookers.
Excellent! I am so overjoyed!! Omaha is Shangi la now..

Yaaayyyy!!!!!!!..

:;): ...

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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

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HR Paperstacks wrote:HDR read all our criticism and they are now designing a very interesting 52 story building ... with blackjack and hookers.
Let me ask you this: are these the $25 handy hookers, or are these the high-dollar, "take to your 25 year class reunion so your old classmates don't think you're a loser" hooker?

I'm asking for a buddy
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

S33 wrote: But it remains our right to scrutinize the appearance of the building ;)
As it remains my right to scrutinize the commentary of those who scrutinize the appearance of the building..

:;): ...

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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
S33 wrote: But it remains our right to scrutinize the appearance of the building ;)
As it remains my right to scrutinize the commentary of those who scrutinize the appearance of the building..

:;): ...

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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by GetUrban »

In my opinion, instead of criticizing someone for their negative critique of a building design, it would be more constructive to specifically point out the features of said building that you like. By the same token, it is much more interesting to read a criticism with specifics of exactly what you think could have been done better, rather than simply saying you don't like it or that the design sucks.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Brad »

GetUrban wrote:In my opinion, instead of criticizing someone for their negative critique of a building design, it would be more constructive to specifically point out the features of said building that you like. By the same token, it is much more interesting to read a criticism with specifics of exactly what you think could have been done better, rather than simply saying you don't like it or that the design sucks.

:thumb: Thanks!
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

Again, I'm not saying I "dislike" the building, so much as I'm saying it's rather "uninspiring". At first glance, I was expecting to say "oh, that's cool, I knew HDR would come up with something neat". Instead, it was more of a "oh, that's all they came up with?"

Judging by the overall reaction on this board, and in the comment sections of all the local media stories on the proposed rendering, I am in the overwhelming majority in thinking this.

For example, something comproable in size/height/cost, I submit exhibit "A", the H&R Block building in KC, as an example of a building that, when I first saw it, I thought was "neat" while also being something of a design that could stand the test of time and trends:

Image
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by skinzfan23 »

I really like the look of the H&R Block building, especially for a 17 story building.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

I think it's pretty clear where I stand as it relates to my feelings about the HDR HQ rendering.. But I'll restate-

Do I wish it was taller? Yes.
Do I wish it was a bit more "bold" in design? Yes.

That said (and I've stated it repeatedly in this discussion)-

Although it's not a "shiver me timbers high rise"-

I'm thrilled a long standing Omaha company is building new and committing to downtown. This makes for a stronger, more vibrant sustainable core. I believe the rendering won't do the actual building justice and it will look very nice along the skyline and compliment the Capitol Disctict project just to the north. All together, the developments will add density and round out the skyline. Let's face it.. We're talking 16, 14, 12 and 6 story developments where right now, it's all surface. I don't see how this is not a WIN for downtown Omaha. I've also stated that there are metros of similar size that would drool over projects such as these.. But many here simply want to complain the HQ building is not tall enough, not bold enough, not unique enough etc etc etc etc.. And of course, as S33 states, it's our right to critique..

My final point is, we should be happy, I've lived 53 years and I remember in the 80's how frustrating times were for Omaha.. And how I longed for more development and commitment to downtown. I saw so much potential then. And the past 20 years, to see Omaha begin to and continue to develop into the type of downtown, city and metro I've longed to to be, is very exciting and gratifiying to me..

In conclusion, it's not tall or overly bold.. But the HDR rendering is handsome, modern looking and will look MUCH better once completed.. So I like it and I'll take it..

Let the completed project be our final judgement :thumb: ...

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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

Agree with all of that ^.


The benefit for the corporate commitment to the metro, the downtown infill, the added economic benefit for the 100 million plus construction, all major wins for Omaha and the many local residents who are employed by anyone who participates in the development.

But I was only discussing the appearance.

That said, I agree. Let's see what it looks like when it's built.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Omaha Cowboy »

S33 wrote:Agree with all of that ^.


The benefit for the corporate commitment to the metro, the downtown infill, the added economic benefit for the 100 million plus construction, all major wins for Omaha and the many local residents who are employed by anyone who participates in the development.

But I was only discussing the appearance.

That said, I agree. Let's see what it looks like when it's built.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by Joe_Sovereign »

Just to refresh everyone's memory.

Image
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

I think what I'm really not liking, are the east/west sides of the building. Looks dated. Also looks like my least favorite building in downtown Des Moines.

Also, those exterior "shield/shade panels", on the sides, were a concept of 70's architecture I wish would have never been resurrected. There's a few examples of this in Omaha, one I think is somewhere on northwest radial.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by MadMartin8 »

I hope they use that lime green glass.
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by RNcyanide »

MadMartin8 wrote:I hope they use that lime green glass.
:evil: :evil:

What if they went for a milky, off-white color? Like a pearl necklace kind of shade?
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by MTO »

S33 wrote:I think what I'm really not liking, are the east/west sides of the building. Looks dated. Also looks like my least favorite building in downtown Des Moines.

Also, those exterior "shield/shade panels", on the sides, were a concept of 70's architecture I wish would have never been resurrected. There's a few examples of this in Omaha, one I think is somewhere on northwest radial.
Image
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by BRoss »

MadMartin8 wrote:I hope they use that lime green glass.
Hey, it's money green! :;):
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

RNcyanide wrote:
MadMartin8 wrote:I hope they use that lime green glass.
:evil: :evil:

What if they went for a milky, off-white color? Like a pearl necklace kind of shade?
Whoa. There's so much innuendo in this post, intentional or otherwise. High five!
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by nebugeater »

I really shouldn't add to this mess esp since I do not think the building looks bad. A little plane maybe but it is OK.


Keep in mind I come from working in an industrial setting for many years. That being said my first thought when I first saw the rendering was that it looked like an over sized cooling tower.



Joe_Sovereign wrote:Just to refresh everyone's memory.

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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

S33 wrote:I think what I'm really not liking, are the east/west sides of the building. Looks dated. Also looks like my least favorite building in downtown Des Moines.

Also, those exterior "shield/shade panels", on the sides, were a concept of 70's architecture I wish would have never been resurrected. There's a few examples of this in Omaha, one I think is somewhere on northwest radial.
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That white building looks 10 times better than that giant black building behind it. I think it actually had to be restored because it was rusting.
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S33
County Board
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by S33 »

PotatoeEatsFish wrote:
S33 wrote:I think what I'm really not liking, are the east/west sides of the building. Looks dated. Also looks like my least favorite building in downtown Des Moines.

Also, those exterior "shield/shade panels", on the sides, were a concept of 70's architecture I wish would have never been resurrected. There's a few examples of this in Omaha, one I think is somewhere on northwest radial.
Image
That white building looks 10 times better than that giant black building behind it. I think it actually had to be restored because it was rusting.
I could be mistaken, but I feel like at some point it was mentioned that the facade on that building was actually designed as having oxidation on that surface as being intentional aesthetics.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
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jessep28
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Re: New HDR Corporate Headquarters

Post by jessep28 »

The Ruan Center in Des Moines has a Cor-Ten steel exterior, which is designed to oxidize. Two other sizable structures with the same type of steel exterior are the U.S. Steel buidling in Pittsburgh and TIme Life building in Chicago.

U.S. Steel Building (source: http://highpointpark.org/the-competition )

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Time-Life building (source: http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/Bui ... rbanks.php )

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