Omaha Forums

Side note: Rock Harbor, I enjoy your posts greatly.

I agree with everything you both are saying.. HDR pulled the plug, so they've garnered most of our ire.. But there is enough culpability to spread to OPA and city hall.. I shutter to think this decision caught Stothert as off guard as she's communicated.. City Hall needed to be all over this deal with a "do what it takes" attitude to make the development happen.. I suspect that was not the case..and that has me worried about what's going on down there..

But ultimately, HDR pulling the plug on their project 73 days after providing renderings and a time table for ground breaking/completion, remains complete and utter BS...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

It is ridiculous that so many feel a need to be able to park right next to their building for free and walk in. When Pacific Life was downtown, so many complained about walking 4 blocks from Park 4, even though they were walking right through the Old Market. When I first started and didn't have a garage space in the Landmark building, I loved walking through the Old Market. Can't think of a better place to start and end your day walking through. Unfortunately most people hated that (there was a also a free shuttle in the winter) so Pac Life ends up in Aksarben Village. Sure the neighborhood is good, but nowhere near the pedestrian friendly area of the Old Market. No to mention, there were so many good local places to eat that you could walk to downtown. The traffic in Aksarben is already a mess some days, and will continue to get worse as it fills in more.

There would have been a little parking pain while construction happened, but they were adding 1000+ stalls in HDR's project. That is an insane amount of parking.

I still don't understand why the city and MECA can use some of their parking during the week and run shuttles for DT office workers. That land is such a waste 95% of the year.

The city really does seem to have been brutally dropping the ball lately. HDR, ConAgra, the mess on Dodge Street a few months back... I miss Daub.

skinzfan23 wrote:It is ridiculous that so many feel a need to be able to park right next to their building for free and walk in. When Pacific Life was downtown, so many complained about walking 4 blocks from Park 4, even though they were walking right through the Old Market. When I first started and didn't have a garage space in the Landmark building, I loved walking through the Old Market. Can't think of a better place to start and end your day walking through. Unfortunately most people hated that (there was a also a free shuttle in the winter) so Pac Life ends up in Aksarben Village. Sure the neighborhood is good, but nowhere near the pedestrian friendly area of the Old Market. No to mention, there were so many good local places to eat that you could walk to downtown. The traffic in Aksarben is already a mess some days, and will continue to get worse as it fills in more.

In my dream world, there would be a good BRT line going down from Dodge on Saddle Creek and Center, down past/through Aksarben, and going back up to Crossroads. If the city just had the money and the motivation, the amount of problems that could be easily solved with an effective mass transit system are hard to describe.

What a joke! I posted anonymously in the Rumors when I first heard they were pulling out. I couldn't believe it was true. Next you will be telling me that my theory that the Two Party Political system is really just a side show to distract us from the trillions being stolen from the people by the oligarchy is true as well.

Parking is not the real issue because we know HDR could build what ever size parking garage the want and the city would contribute millions to help pay if they forced them to. It must be employees who don't want to drive downtown or pay to park.

If the don't build in downtown or midtown it would at least be nice to see them anchor Crossroads. I can't imagine them building out at Boystown. If I was thinking about having HDR design me a building and I flew to Omaha to visit and I was driven to a suburban business park. I wouldn't even go inside, I would just turn around and go back to the airport.

Garrett wrote:

skinzfan23 wrote:It is ridiculous that so many feel a need to be able to park right next to their building for free and walk in. When Pacific Life was downtown, so many complained about walking 4 blocks from Park 4, even though they were walking right through the Old Market. When I first started and didn't have a garage space in the Landmark building, I loved walking through the Old Market. Can't think of a better place to start and end your day walking through. Unfortunately most people hated that (there was a also a free shuttle in the winter) so Pac Life ends up in Aksarben Village. Sure the neighborhood is good, but nowhere near the pedestrian friendly area of the Old Market. No to mention, there were so many good local places to eat that you could walk to downtown. The traffic in Aksarben is already a mess some days, and will continue to get worse as it fills in more.

In my dream world, there would be a good BRT line going down from Dodge on Saddle Creek and Center, down past/through Aksarben, and going back up to Crossroads. If the city just had the money and the motivation, the amount of problems that could be easily solved with an effective mass transit system are hard to describe.

We can have all the BRT and streetcars we want, we still have to convince people to ride them. Currently the impression of the kind of people who use public transit is part of the reason more people don't use it.

I just can't see HDR'S new headquarters going anywhere but an open field along the West Dodge/Elkhorn corridor. It's just too late in the game for any urban site like MTC, AV, Lot B, or Crossroads. Get ready for a 4-6 story building with some nice aesthetics, quality finishes, leed credits, with a short connecting parking garage placed in the back. But at least the company is staying in Omaha though!!! That should be our new motto when it comes to existing companies building new headquarters. Blue Cross, TD Ameritrade, Pacific Life, HDR, I'm sure I'm missing more, all chose to not build downtown. I just don't know how a city the size of Omaha can ever overcome this mass middle finger salute from all these companies toward building downtown.

Tornado wrote:I just can't see HDR'S new headquarters going anywhere but an open field along the West Dodge/Elkhorn corridor. It's just too late in the game for any urban site like MTC, AV, Lot B, or Crossroads. Get ready for a 4-6 story building with some nice aesthetics, quality finishes, leed credits, with a short connecting parking garage placed in the back. But at least the company is staying in Omaha though!!! That should be our new motto when it comes to existing companies building new headquarters. Blue Cross, TD Ameritrade, Pacific Life, HDR, I'm sure I'm missing more, all chose to not build downtown. I just don't know how a city the size of Omaha can ever overcome this mass middle finger salute from all these companies toward building downtown.

And on the rare occasion they do decide to build downtown, they can't do it without first tearing something significant down or closing another street or effing something else up. At least FNB and UP replaced what they destroyed with something more substantial. It might be time to retreat and just be surprised when something good does happen instead of being disappointed when things fall through so often.

iamjacobm wrote:There would have been a little parking pain while construction happened, but they were adding 1000+ stalls in HDR's project. That is an insane amount of parking.

I still don't understand why the city and MECA can use some of their parking during the week and run shuttles for DT office workers. That land is such a waste 95% of the year.

1,100 - because they have 900+ employees and have been growing an an excessive pace for some time now. They also have to accommodate 200+ OWH employees if they built on OPA land.

The problem with using MECA's lots is what do you tell those people when they are needed for the occasional downtown event? Or for a two week event like the CWS?

Greg

Those lots have never once been completely full during the CWS. And it is possible to find solutions for a two week crunch time period. Summer is when the majority of vacations are taken, especially during the CWS in Omaha so there is already a lessened office population. Why can't there can be short term deals made in city garages or other private lots.

The issue isn't available parking, the issue is that everyone thinks singularly about it and says "well it isn't at the front door of my destination so there is no parking." There is parking, it just isn't used efficiently.

This is getting off topic now, but we are reaping the consequences of previous generation's decisions. We have created a city that demands that 3:1 parking(1 stall at home, retail and work per person)is not only necessary, but fostered the ideology that it is a natural born right. If we had spent the past few decades creating a couple options for people to get around this "parking problem" wouldn't be the hot button issue it is today and simply building more parking is a band-aid solution to the bigger problem of transportation.

Going to be great in 30 years as we keep decentralizing and relaying on one mode of transportation when gas inevitable returns to double what it had been in 2015 and we don't have enough revenue to maintain the massive road system we created.

Maybe it will start to click when Omaha becomes a "30 min town" instead of a "20 min town." Or when HDR moves into an urban setting in Chicago in 25 years b/c of the "talent pool."

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. Maybe we have a new city motto.

EDIT:

RNcyanide wrote:

Garrett wrote:

skinzfan23 wrote:It is ridiculous that so many feel a need to be able to park right next to their building for free and walk in. When Pacific Life was downtown, so many complained about walking 4 blocks from Park 4, even though they were walking right through the Old Market. When I first started and didn't have a garage space in the Landmark building, I loved walking through the Old Market. Can't think of a better place to start and end your day walking through. Unfortunately most people hated that (there was a also a free shuttle in the winter) so Pac Life ends up in Aksarben Village. Sure the neighborhood is good, but nowhere near the pedestrian friendly area of the Old Market. No to mention, there were so many good local places to eat that you could walk to downtown. The traffic in Aksarben is already a mess some days, and will continue to get worse as it fills in more.

In my dream world, there would be a good BRT line going down from Dodge on Saddle Creek and Center, down past/through Aksarben, and going back up to Crossroads. If the city just had the money and the motivation, the amount of problems that could be easily solved with an effective mass transit system are hard to describe.

We can have all the BRT and streetcars we want, we still have to convince people to ride them. Currently the impression of the kind of people who use public transit is part of the reason more people don't use it.

A well built system that is at least as effective, if not more so, then cars will convince people to ride. After all, nothing is more convincing than watching a BRT go past you as you're stuck in rush hour. The city should be taking an active roll in building quality transit and then encouraging Transit Oriented Development to accompany it. As iamjacobm pointed out, Omaha has been a 20 minute town for so long, and that won't last forever, especially with the way the city is currently growing. To expect continued prosperity in the urban core while continuing to need endless disheveled parking is laughable.

Garrett wrote:

RNcyanide wrote:

Garrett wrote:

skinzfan23 wrote:It is ridiculous that so many feel a need to be able to park right next to their building for free and walk in. When Pacific Life was downtown, so many complained about walking 4 blocks from Park 4, even though they were walking right through the Old Market. When I first started and didn't have a garage space in the Landmark building, I loved walking through the Old Market. Can't think of a better place to start and end your day walking through. Unfortunately most people hated that (there was a also a free shuttle in the winter) so Pac Life ends up in Aksarben Village. Sure the neighborhood is good, but nowhere near the pedestrian friendly area of the Old Market. No to mention, there were so many good local places to eat that you could walk to downtown. The traffic in Aksarben is already a mess some days, and will continue to get worse as it fills in more.

In my dream world, there would be a good BRT line going down from Dodge on Saddle Creek and Center, down past/through Aksarben, and going back up to Crossroads. If the city just had the money and the motivation, the amount of problems that could be easily solved with an effective mass transit system are hard to describe.

We can have all the BRT and streetcars we want, we still have to convince people to ride them. Currently the impression of the kind of people who use public transit is part of the reason more people don't use it.

A well built system that is at least as effective, if not more so, then cars will convince people to ride. After all, nothing is more convincing than watching a BRT go past you as you're stuck in rush hour. The city should be taking an active roll in building quality transit and then encouraging Transit Oriented Development to accompany it. As iamjacobm pointed out, Omaha has been a 20 minute town for so long, and that won't last forever, especially with the way the city is currently growing. To expect continued prosperity in the urban core while continuing to need endless disheveled parking is laughable.

Your last sentence is spot on. Unfortunately, I think it will take leadership from the Mayor's office on this issue and Stothert doesn't have a great track record as an urbanist.

Maybe just maybe they're still trying for downtown. Given they initially went for DTO they must have already considered the implications and concluded they were down. So I'm dreaming here but maybe they're still looking down there for a site with a more elegant parking solution since that seams to be the sticking point.

Something that many of you aren't likely aware of is that the current parking situation at HDR is a mess. Approximately 1/3-1/4 of the employees at 84th and Dodge don't have parking by the building. There is a small lot (40 spots) that is a 5 min walk/shuttle ride away with the vast majority forced to park at 72nd and Cass (Crossroads parking garage 10+ min) and get shuttled each way, every day. It's expensive for HDR to continually rent spots, maintain 4 shuttle vans and pay people to drive them. It's incredibly frustrating as an employee to waste 20 min of your day just waiting for and getting rides to/from the Crossroads parking garage in addition to the 30-45 min that most people already spend commuting to and from work.

That is why parking is such a big deal...yes, many people don't want to drive down there but they're willing as long as parking is available. If/when public transportation improves, parking spots are less of a big deal.

KETV; "several downtown locations still on the table for HDR, city says"

http://bit.ly/1XtOUPW

Main library and the state building? WOW!

MTO wrote:Main library and the state building? WOW!

Tear the son of a |expletive| down!!!

RNcyanide wrote:

MTO wrote:Main library and the state building? WOW!

Tear the son of a |expletive| down!!!

I'm in total agreeance!

State Building is my number 1 choice.

The OWH's Public pulse suggests the Crossroads.

http://m.omaha.com/opinion/the-public-p ... l?mode=jqm

New Downtown HDR building, ground floor retail along Farnam street, parking behind:

Most of those suggestions from the city aren't close to shovel ready.

iamjacobm wrote:Most of those suggestions from the city aren't close to shovel ready.

As much as I would love the state building or the library site, neither of those are an option based on HDR's time constraints.

MTO wrote:The OWH's Public pulse suggests the Crossroads.

http://m.omaha.com/opinion/the-public-p ... l?mode=jqm

It is centrally located, easily accessible from two major thoroughfares, already has a sizable parking garage, has a commitment from the city for tax increment financing and is not going anywhere with the current developers.

Bingo Bango

Yeah and they also said the current plan for redevelopment has stalled out which a lot of people on here still say it's still moving forward¿

Well, 1/4 of their employees already park there, why not? They'd feel right at home.
But the S.O.B. site has moved to the top of the list as far as I'm concerned. it would take awhile to haul off that debris though.

The surest way to jack-up costs and to make colossal mistakes is to be in a big effing hurry. The Durham estate still owns the current HDR buildings, I believe. Surely they'd cut them some slack before they kick them out in 2019.

The Crossroads site has just as many hangups as Lot B IMO. We only have one shot to do that right and retail still needs to be prevalent there. The developer and HDR are going to have to come to terms incredibly quick on those types of mega sites. Not sure if HDR is willing to play ball with a developer, I think they want complete control.

choke wrote:

MTO wrote:The OWH's Public pulse suggests the Crossroads.

http://m.omaha.com/opinion/the-public-p ... l?mode=jqm

It is centrally located, easily accessible from two major thoroughfares, already has a sizable parking garage, has a commitment from the city for tax increment financing and is not going anywhere with the current developers.

Bingo Bango

That would be perfect for HDR! (Not too far from their original area of town, closer to downtown, in a new exciting, developing area...) I didn't even think of that. I would love to see them, and other exciting companies, in the new "Crossroads!"

MadMartin8 wrote:Side note: Rock Harbor, I enjoy your posts greatly.

I just caught this. Well, thank you! I enjoy yours all, too... I just have a real passion for Omaha (my hometown) and architecture and design -- like I figure most of you have on here. Growing up, a good friend and I would always watch "Midlands News" and immediately call each other if something new was going up in Omaha. We didn't know anybody else cared, but us (as those were the days before the internet, and a forum like this, bringing us all together). Literally, when the new FNB skyscraper in Omaha was built, and was looming on the skyline, and casting a long shadow, nobody in my family said anything, and I had to point it out and bring it up for conversation. I can't imagine not paying attention to that kind of stuff!! So, I'm glad I have you all to talk to. lol

Contact the mayor's office and your city councilmen. Clearly there's been enough of a backlash that the city has felt compelled to try and do SOMEthing. I'm not a huge fan of the Crossroads idea - I think that'd be a risky proposition for HDR as well, as it's such an unknown as to whether it'll actually happen. As far as the sites listed by KETV, I'd rank them as follows for personal preference:

1.) The State Office Building site. This may actually be more doable with the Durham Conference Center moving out of there. It takes a horrifically ugly (and short) building off of some prime real estate surrounding our major city park. Provides a nice mid-rise frame for Leahy Mall.

2.) The Lanoha site. Shovel-ready and fills in an empty lot that really looks awkward anytime you go past it. Extends retail along Capitol.

3.) "20th and 24th streets, between Harney and Dodge streets". I'll narrow this down to 22nd and Farnam, east of the new hotel. There are a lot of great plans in the works along Farnam, and I think this would add a nice continued connection between downtown and midtown.

4.) Midtown Crossing Phase Two. If this is a catalyst to get MTC to I-480 cleaned up and built up, fantastic.

5.) Lot B. I don't believe this is out of place, provided it's directly north of the Hilton. 10th Street would have a nice line of mid-rises there as an entryway into the city. Would probably get Lot B development going at full speed as well.

6.) Downtown Library Site. This is more logistics than anything, as I don't know where you temporarily house this until a new site is presumably built on the Civic site or Crossroads.

7.) NW corner of 24th and Dodge. Not a fan of building on this as I believe the Joslyn looks fantastic surrounded by greenery.

The other sites would not seem to work either due to timeline or subsequent development already in motion.

Hopefully HDR moving out west isn't already a done deal, though. The sale of the Boys Town land is horribly coincidental.

Seeing this eyesore on the list (regardless of how unlikely it is to be chosen)...


...made Ol' Hawkeye think...
[youtube][/youtube]

NEDodger wrote:Contact the mayor's office and your city councilmen. Clearly there's been enough of a backlash that the city has felt compelled to try and do SOMEthing. I'm not a huge fan of the Crossroads idea - I think that'd be a risky proposition for HDR as well, as it's such an unknown as to whether it'll actually happen. As far as the sites listed by KETV, I'd rank them as follows for personal preference:

1.) The State Office Building site. This may actually be more doable with the Durham Conference Center moving out of there. It takes a horrifically ugly (and short) building off of some prime real estate surrounding our major city park. Provides a nice mid-rise frame for Leahy Mall.

2.) The Lanoha site. Shovel-ready and fills in an empty lot that really looks awkward anytime you go past it. Extends retail along Capitol.

3.) "20th and 24th streets, between Harney and Dodge streets". I'll narrow this down to 22nd and Farnam, east of the new hotel. There are a lot of great plans in the works along Farnam, and I think this would add a nice continued connection between downtown and midtown.

4.) Midtown Crossing Phase Two. If this is a catalyst to get MTC to I-480 cleaned up and built up, fantastic.

5.) Lot B. I don't believe this is out of place, provided it's directly north of the Hilton. 10th Street would have a nice line of mid-rises there as an entryway into the city. Would probably get Lot B development going at full speed as well.

6.) Downtown Library Site. This is more logistics than anything, as I don't know where you temporarily house this until a new site is presumably built on the Civic site or Crossroads.

7.) NW corner of 24th and Dodge. Not a fan of building on this as I believe the Joslyn looks fantastic surrounded by greenery.

The other sites would not seem to work either due to timeline or subsequent development already in motion.

Hopefully HDR moving out west isn't already a done deal, though. The sale of the Boys Town land is horribly coincidental.

Interesting. Why were all these sites, provided by KETV, mostly downtown sites? I thought HDR wasn't moving downtown at all now. (??)

I'm a fan of the Crossroads site, upon hearing this suggestion, because: 1) It would be another sharp, urban, exciting "Aksarben Village" type area in the center of the town, for an urban-style HQ building. 2) Maybe HDR signing some sort of deal would help push the Crossroads project forward in some way. I don't know...

I don't mind the idea of them building out west, but I would hope it would be closer-in than far out west, like180th & Dodge. At 132nd & Dodge, it would be neat to see a sharp building sitting on the SW corner -- now Boys Town's land. BUT, if they build anywhere on Boys Town land, they are going to have country farm fields around them, though. (What? Are they going to have huge farm machinery rolling by their building at harvest time, with corn shucks floating in the air, and dust covering the backside of the building?) If they build outside of downtown, Aksarben Village, or Crossroads (all urban settings), I hope they change the design of their building to be more appropriate for a suburban setting.

RockHarbor wrote:Interesting. Why were all these sites, provided by KETV, mostly downtown sites? I thought HDR wasn't moving downtown at all now. (??).

FYI- There was a story yesterday in the W-H and on the KETV website that indicated HDR has not given up completely on a downtown Omaha HQ location.. Several locations DT were named indicating "potential" HQ sites...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

That said, even though the article's mention HDR has yet to give up on a HQ location downtown, I would say it's unlikely..

I'm hearing rumblings more and more that it's likely a location near Boystown were HDR will build. But again, that's the "talk" I keep hearing.. Doesn't mean it's true though...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Omaha Cowboy wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:Interesting. Why were all these sites, provided by KETV, mostly downtown sites? I thought HDR wasn't moving downtown at all now. (??).

FYI- There was a story yesterday in the W-H and on the KETV website that indicated HDR has not given up completely on a downtown Omaha HQ location.. Several locations DT were named indicating "potential" HQ sites...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

These reports are incorrect. Several internal sources have told me.

Omaha Cowboy wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:Interesting. Why were all these sites, provided by KETV, mostly downtown sites? I thought HDR wasn't moving downtown at all now. (??).

FYI- There was a story yesterday in the W-H and on the KETV website that indicated HDR has not given up completely on a downtown Omaha HQ location.. Several locations DT were named indicating "potential" HQ sites...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Oh, thanks... (And, GUEST2016: Thanks for the "heads up" on that.)

I take back my Boys Town comment. I was picturing B.T. selling them just a square parcel of land in the midst of cornfields -- much like Millard North High School. I didn't like the idea of a sharp HDR headquarters with beautiful landscaping around it, with tall rows of late summer corn surrounding all of it -- like the baseball field in Field of Dreams, or something. There is a new post here (I just read) that shows that they will turn all that B.T. land west of 144th (& north of Pacific) into another business park!

guest2016 wrote:

Omaha Cowboy wrote:

RockHarbor wrote:Interesting. Why were all these sites, provided by KETV, mostly downtown sites? I thought HDR wasn't moving downtown at all now. (??).

FYI- There was a story yesterday in the W-H and on the KETV website that indicated HDR has not given up completely on a downtown Omaha HQ location.. Several locations DT were named indicating "potential" HQ sites...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

These reports are incorrect. Several internal sources have told me.

So are the internal sources saying they are heading out west then??