HDR Proposed Downtown Office
Moderators: Coyote, nebugeater, Brad, Omaha Cowboy, BRoss
Re: HDR
I don't know if this is just standard procedure, my misunderstanding of what the time schedule was, or has something to do with HDR, but after completion of moving all that dirt to the vacant block in AV there are now several tractors setting over there ready to seed and sod. I thought someone was ready to build so was surprised seeding or sodding would be done. Thoughts??
Re: HDR
Well they planted grass on the midtown triangle to combat mass wasting so maybe they're doing that here.hatwate wrote:I don't know if this is just standard procedure, my misunderstanding of what the time schedule was, or has something to do with HDR, but after completion of moving all that dirt to the vacant block in AV there are now several tractors setting over there ready to seed and sod. I thought someone was ready to build so was surprised seeding or sodding would be done. Thoughts??
15-17, 26, 32
Re: HDR
Seems to me that if the objection to commuting downtown was so strong, that the objection to Mid-town Crossing would be equally strong. There would only be 5 minutes, or less difference in commute times between the two. Definitely feel west is where they are heading.geturban-unlogged-in wrote:Agreed. If they won't go downtown, I'd prefer to see them go to Mid-Town Crossing, rather than Ak Village. Ak doesn't need any more office density, imo. I hate thinking about all of the potential tenants that have been drawn away from DT, as other's have mentioned.MTO wrote:Our downtown is becoming a novelty anymore and I'm beginning to loath AV thankfully it's almost full.
It seems more likely they'll go somewhere out west though...if they caved to internal employee pressure to steer clear of downtown due to the perceived difficulty commuting to and parking downtown. One thing for sure...HDR won't now be perceived as a cool place to work by young architects and engineers looking for an exciting urban environment to work in.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." -- Niels Bohr
Re: HDR
They are not locating to AV, or MTC, or anywhere in the interior of 680. They're going to scoop up some cheap land out west, enough land for 30 acres of surface lot parking, end of story.
Neither AV or MTC would satisfy their commute and parking demands, at least not what marginal improvement it would have been from getting free land downtown.
Pretty big blow for DT. Marriott, WST, ConAgra, and now HDR.
This also doesn't negate what an absolute pile of sh*t downtown was pre-Hal Daub era, and the subsequent multi-billion dollar investments it's seen since.
When you've had as much going on as Omaha has, for a city this size, you're going to lose every now and again.
I think everyone's expectations for this city are more ambitious than what this city is capable of. Relatively stagnant economic and population growth leaves fewer opportunities than most cities for these types of developments.
It is what it is
Neither AV or MTC would satisfy their commute and parking demands, at least not what marginal improvement it would have been from getting free land downtown.
Pretty big blow for DT. Marriott, WST, ConAgra, and now HDR.
This also doesn't negate what an absolute pile of sh*t downtown was pre-Hal Daub era, and the subsequent multi-billion dollar investments it's seen since.
When you've had as much going on as Omaha has, for a city this size, you're going to lose every now and again.
I think everyone's expectations for this city are more ambitious than what this city is capable of. Relatively stagnant economic and population growth leaves fewer opportunities than most cities for these types of developments.
It is what it is
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
Re: HDR
Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
15-17, 26, 32
Re: HDR
I think it'll come eventually, but it seems like there's going to be a cooling off period for growth, unless the city can somehow create an effective campaign to lure more business into town.MTO wrote:Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
Even then, you're engaging into a competition with a host of other cities for this very same thing, as we are seeing this done around the country on a scale not seen before. So, once the city has given everything away, what's the net gain? And how would the legacy corporations react to this favoritism with the new businesses?
Kinda getting off track there, but the point is that the city has come close to exhausting opportunities for substantial, local expansions and headquarter relocations downtown, and it could be another decade before we see another high rise break ground.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
Re: HDR
I am still confident Tetrad gets their project vertical. Lots of $$ and connections there.S33 wrote:I think it'll come eventually, but it seems like there's going to be a cooling off period for growth, unless the city can somehow create an effective campaign to lure more business into town.MTO wrote:Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
Even then, you're engaging into a competition with a host of other cities for this very same thing, as we are seeing this done around the country on a scale not seen before. So, once the city has given everything away, what's the net gain? And how would the legacy corporations react to this favoritism with the new businesses?
Kinda getting off track there, but the point is that the city has come close to exhausting opportunities for substantial, local expansions and headquarter relocations downtown, and it could be another decade before we see another high rise break ground.
Re: HDR
I have some confidence in both Tetrad and Lanoha, but more Tetrad.iamjacobm wrote:I am still confident Tetrad gets their project vertical. Lots of $$ and connections there.S33 wrote:I think it'll come eventually, but it seems like there's going to be a cooling off period for growth, unless the city can somehow create an effective campaign to lure more business into town.MTO wrote:Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
Even then, you're engaging into a competition with a host of other cities for this very same thing, as we are seeing this done around the country on a scale not seen before. So, once the city has given everything away, what's the net gain? And how would the legacy corporations react to this favoritism with the new businesses?
Kinda getting off track there, but the point is that the city has come close to exhausting opportunities for substantial, local expansions and headquarter relocations downtown, and it could be another decade before we see another high rise break ground.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.
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Re: HDR
I don't feel as bearish as others might. Maybe the answer lies in luring 20-30 small start-ups to downtown, like Hudl used to be, instead of the big fish that have been around for decades. North downtown is a perfect place for that kind of thing, and also infilling the remaining lots that aren't already being hoarded by the big players, if you can still find them. The city could acquire them. If we still had blocks that were still divided up into smaller 24' or 66' wide lots, they could be sold to smaller start-ups. Of course a developer could build a larger building and lease pieces of that too. There is a glut of empty office space working against us too though. But predicting it will be 5 or 10 years before anything else significant happens downtown seems a bit far-fetched, imo.MTO wrote:Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
I think we'll start hearing the internal culture of HDR turned against people wanting to work downtown, more than the city not bending far enough over backwards for them. Before OPA backed out and even after that, HDR really had a pretty sweet deal coming their way including TIF. Why did they give that up? Besides the negative pressure OPA was feeling over their future plans, there wasn't any parking-related issue that couldn't have been overcome. HDR's withdrawal had to be more location/culture related.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
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Re: HDR
Just my opinion and maybe it is sour grapes, but to heck with 'em. They could've had an iconic building downtown in the city they were built and they backed out ostensibly because of parking. Makes them sound ridiculous. Someone else will build on that land eventually and HDR will have a building in the middle of nowhere that no one cares about.
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Re: HDR
HDR site-selection team hasn't ruled out downtown HQ, says it will make its choice quickly
Another hit on OPAS as being the villain to our story... Did the OWH also throw Gottschalk under the bus?Cindy Gonzalez - World-Herald staff writer wrote:Previously available sites that HDR considered include midtown Omaha’s Aksarben Village and a stretch of land east of Midtown Crossing that is being assembled and cleared by Mutual of Omaha for future development. Possible sites farther west include undeveloped property at Boys Town.
Newer contenders would include a parking lot in north downtown next to the CenturyLink Center and TD Ameritrade Park, known as Lot B. That lot, operated by the Metropolitan Entertainment and Convention Authority, is being pushed by Mayor Jean Stothert as a downtown alternative.
Ultimately, HDR couldn’t come to sale terms with the owner of the majority of the lot, Omaha Performing Arts, which runs the Holland Center across the street from the lot.
Re: HDR
That's what I figured it was. They had an apparent sweet deal with the city to pay them a fortune for the three buildings, that got squashed, and so they jacked up the price on HDR for the parking lot. Ridiculous.
Hopefully it goes to phase two of Midtown Crossing or Lot B....
Hopefully it goes to phase two of Midtown Crossing or Lot B....
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Re: HDR
Too bad they are on such a quick timeline, because 10th & Farnam on the old ConAgra land would be a great location for them.
What about the 13th & Howard Chamber of Commerce parking lot? Too small of a lot?
Or how about the 10th & Dodge lot that was originally supposed to be part of the Shamrock development? Great visibility, close to all kinds of hotels for visitors.
Maybe team up with Lanoha on the old UP lot?
I guess Lot B would be preferable to a West O location, but that's definitely not my preferred selection.
What about the 13th & Howard Chamber of Commerce parking lot? Too small of a lot?
Or how about the 10th & Dodge lot that was originally supposed to be part of the Shamrock development? Great visibility, close to all kinds of hotels for visitors.
Maybe team up with Lanoha on the old UP lot?
I guess Lot B would be preferable to a West O location, but that's definitely not my preferred selection.
Re: HDR
Is it not possible to do a short-term extension on their current lease so they can have a little more time to get this right? I get that it would likely be more expensive, but at least they wouldn't have to rush this.
Re: HDR
Depends what their lease says. Anything is possible, but the owner/property manager probably wants a hard date for them to leave b/c they need to start marketing the property at the very least a year out.HR Paperstacks wrote:Is it not possible to do a short-term extension on their current lease so they can have a little more time to get this right? I get that it would likely be more expensive, but at least they wouldn't have to rush this.
Re: HDR
It is possible and will likely happen. There's just no way that HDR can select a location and still hit the desired timeline.HR Paperstacks wrote:Is it not possible to do a short-term extension on their current lease so they can have a little more time to get this right? I get that it would likely be more expensive, but at least they wouldn't have to rush this.
Re: HDR
While I do know that a large % of the employees didn't want to be downtown, I don't believe that played into the decision. I think it's the most obvious answer, that OPA raised their price substantially in addition to the need for additional parking which further increased costs for that site.GetUrban wrote:I don't feel as bearish as others might. Maybe the answer lies in luring 20-30 small start-ups to downtown, like Hudl used to be, instead of the big fish that have been around for decades. North downtown is a perfect place for that kind of thing, and also infilling the remaining lots that aren't already being hoarded by the big players, if you can still find them. The city could acquire them. If we still had blocks that were still divided up into smaller 24' or 66' wide lots, they could be sold to smaller start-ups. Of course a developer could build a larger building and lease pieces of that too. There is a glut of empty office space working against us too though. But predicting it will be 5 or 10 years before anything else significant happens downtown seems a bit far-fetched, imo.MTO wrote:Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
I think we'll start hearing the internal culture of HDR turned against people wanting to work downtown, more than the city not bending far enough over backwards for them. Before OPA backed out and even after that, HDR really had a pretty sweet deal coming their way including TIF. Why did they give that up? Besides the negative pressure OPA was feeling over their future plans, there wasn't any parking-related issue that couldn't have been overcome. HDR's withdrawal had to be more location/culture related.
Re: HDR
My biggest knock about them going by Boys Town is the lack of TIF for them. Unless the city "blights" the West Dodge Corridor right near Linden Estates they will probably have to miss out on ~$20 million in subsidies. For that reason alone I think A/V, MTC or Lot B get a leg up.
That being said the city did blight Old Mill for TDA so that possibility is out there for HDR, not sure HDR wants to take on another messy public campaign like that though...
That being said the city did blight Old Mill for TDA so that possibility is out there for HDR, not sure HDR wants to take on another messy public campaign like that though...
Re: HDR
I'm sorry, I might be in the minority, but I wholeheartedly disagree. I would be 100% disappointed if the city did something rash and "gave" them lot B, as a way to keep them moving downtown.Midwestern wrote: I guess Lot B would be preferable to a West O location, but that's definitely not my preferred selection.
ALL of the studies that have been done around downtown/North Downtown development say that Lot B needs to be mixed use, or along the line of entertainment, to fit in with the "Entertainment District" concept. A large office building would stick out like a sore thumb in this area, and would do more to hinder the overall development of North Downtown than help it.
Lot B done right is key to North Downtown. The city only gets 1 shot at this, please don't screw it up, the entire neighborhood is dependent on it.
Re: HDR
Agreed. If they can be part of a successful mixed use development, I'm all for it. But if they just build an office building, even if it has ground floor retail, you can basically kiss development in the area goodbyeBen wrote:I'm sorry, I might be in the minority, but I wholeheartedly disagree. I would be 100% disappointed if the city did something rash and "gave" them lot B, as a way to keep them moving downtown.Midwestern wrote: I guess Lot B would be preferable to a West O location, but that's definitely not my preferred selection.
ALL of the studies that have been done around downtown/North Downtown development say that Lot B needs to be mixed use, or along the line of entertainment, to fit in with the "Entertainment District" concept. A large office building would stick out like a sore thumb in this area, and would do more to hinder the overall development of North Downtown than help it.
Lot B done right is key to North Downtown. The city only gets 1 shot at this, please don't screw it up, the entire neighborhood is dependent on it.
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Re: HDR
Thank you! I agree completely!Ben wrote:I'm sorry, I might be in the minority, but I wholeheartedly disagree. I would be 100% disappointed if the city did something rash and "gave" them lot B, as a way to keep them moving downtown.Midwestern wrote: I guess Lot B would be preferable to a West O location, but that's definitely not my preferred selection.
ALL of the studies that have been done around downtown/North Downtown development say that Lot B needs to be mixed use, or along the line of entertainment, to fit in with the "Entertainment District" concept. A large office building would stick out like a sore thumb in this area, and would do more to hinder the overall development of North Downtown than help it.
Lot B done right is key to North Downtown. The city only gets 1 shot at this, please don't screw it up, the entire neighborhood is dependent on it.
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Re: HDR
I work at Boys Town and we received a company wide email this evening that we have sold our farm west property (144th and dodge) and that a land use study determined that the property is not crucial for future expansion (duh..). The email also stated to look towards Omaha.com tomorrow for details about the sale and future plans.
To me this is a no brainier that HDR is pouncing at the boys town location... Barf..
To me this is a no brainier that HDR is pouncing at the boys town location... Barf..
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Re: HDR
Hate this location for them. Going to be a suburban office park similar to what they currently have. Way to stand out from the rest HDR.
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Re: HDR
That would be ok. As mentioned in another thread, maybe they will move their HQ's here.Garrett wrote:You never know. It sounds more like a move by First Data to me.
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Re: HDR
Not happening.skinzfan23 wrote:That would be ok. As mentioned in another thread, maybe they will move their HQ's here.Garrett wrote:You never know. It sounds more like a move by First Data to me.
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Re: HDR
if a large percentage of my employees were concerned with increased commenting times,stabone99 wrote:While I do know that a large % of the employees didn't want to be downtown, I don't believe that played into the decision. I think it's the most obvious answer, that OPA raised their price substantially in addition to the need for additional parking which further increased costs for that site.GetUrban wrote:I don't feel as bearish as others might. Maybe the answer lies in luring 20-30 small start-ups to downtown, like Hudl used to be, instead of the big fish that have been around for decades. North downtown is a perfect place for that kind of thing, and also infilling the remaining lots that aren't already being hoarded by the big players, if you can still find them. The city could acquire them. If we still had blocks that were still divided up into smaller 24' or 66' wide lots, they could be sold to smaller start-ups. Of course a developer could build a larger building and lease pieces of that too. There is a glut of empty office space working against us too though. But predicting it will be 5 or 10 years before anything else significant happens downtown seems a bit far-fetched, imo.MTO wrote:Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
I think we'll start hearing the internal culture of HDR turned against people wanting to work downtown, more than the city not bending far enough over backwards for them. Before OPA backed out and even after that, HDR really had a pretty sweet deal coming their way including TIF. Why did they give that up? Besides the negative pressure OPA was feeling over their future plans, there wasn't any parking-related issue that couldn't have been overcome. HDR's withdrawal had to be more location/culture related.
It would absolutely be a motivating factor for me to locate the new headquarters to a more desirable location for my employees.
I wouldn't underestimate that as one of their primary factors they considered.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
Re: HDR
The thing is, a lot of people have not only their commute time through Dodge traffic but then they have to wait for shuttles each way which adds about 10+min every day. The timing isn't going to substantially change going downtown. In fact, it's very comparable to the current location, Midtown Crossing, and Aksarben and in some cases, maybe even shorter. With that being said, I still don't believe it significantly impacted their decision while I do believe the parking was a bigger concern, for the reasons I've listed, than the public thinks.S33 wrote:if a large percentage of my employees were concerned with increased commenting times,stabone99 wrote:While I do know that a large % of the employees didn't want to be downtown, I don't believe that played into the decision. I think it's the most obvious answer, that OPA raised their price substantially in addition to the need for additional parking which further increased costs for that site.GetUrban wrote:I don't feel as bearish as others might. Maybe the answer lies in luring 20-30 small start-ups to downtown, like Hudl used to be, instead of the big fish that have been around for decades. North downtown is a perfect place for that kind of thing, and also infilling the remaining lots that aren't already being hoarded by the big players, if you can still find them. The city could acquire them. If we still had blocks that were still divided up into smaller 24' or 66' wide lots, they could be sold to smaller start-ups. Of course a developer could build a larger building and lease pieces of that too. There is a glut of empty office space working against us too though. But predicting it will be 5 or 10 years before anything else significant happens downtown seems a bit far-fetched, imo.MTO wrote:Ok (and I'm not harping on you in particular) what the heck can we, the city or anyone do? This isn't rhetorical I'm seriously curious how do we get business downtown without mass transit but how do we get mass transit without business? I just don't see what's a solution would look like.
I think we'll start hearing the internal culture of HDR turned against people wanting to work downtown, more than the city not bending far enough over backwards for them. Before OPA backed out and even after that, HDR really had a pretty sweet deal coming their way including TIF. Why did they give that up? Besides the negative pressure OPA was feeling over their future plans, there wasn't any parking-related issue that couldn't have been overcome. HDR's withdrawal had to be more location/culture related.
It would absolutely be a motivating factor for me to locate the new headquarters to a more desirable location for my employees.
I wouldn't underestimate that as one of their primary factors they considered.
Re: HDR
If that turns out to be true, the access and lack of parking issues that apparently soured the downtown deal will pail in comparison to gridlock caused by adding another 1000 cars daily to AK. I do like AK village though, don't get me wrong. $ is factor in their decision too of course. Blaming the abandonment of the chosen downtown site on parking and traffic concerns will seem like a lame excuse.Ben wrote:Informed sources say Aksarben... Nothing signed yet, but in final negotiations now. No indications as to what parcel of land.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
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Re: HDR
Ben wrote:Informed sources say Aksarben... Nothing signed yet, but in final negotiations now. No indications as to what parcel of land.
Goodbye skyscraper
#SaveTheUglyGrainSilos2024
Re: HDR
All the more reason to accelerate mass transit expansion.GetUrban wrote:If that turns out to be true, the access and lack of parking issues that apparently soured the downtown deal will pail in comparison to gridlock caused by adding another 1000 cars daily to AK. I do like AK village though, don't get me wrong. $ is factor in their decision too of course. Blaming the abandonment of the chosen downtown site on parking and traffic concerns will seem like a lame excuse.Ben wrote:Informed sources say Aksarben... Nothing signed yet, but in final negotiations now. No indications as to what parcel of land.
Re: HDR
There's only one plot that fits them and is undeveloped - the plot would be 67th & Francis. I suppose there's the long-shot chance that they could purchase a parking lot spot from First Data, but that seems unlikely.daveoma wrote:All the more reason to accelerate mass transit expansion.GetUrban wrote:If that turns out to be true, the access and lack of parking issues that apparently soured the downtown deal will pail in comparison to gridlock caused by adding another 1000 cars daily to AK. I do like AK village though, don't get me wrong. $ is factor in their decision too of course. Blaming the abandonment of the chosen downtown site on parking and traffic concerns will seem like a lame excuse.Ben wrote:Informed sources say Aksarben... Nothing signed yet, but in final negotiations now. No indications as to what parcel of land.
My friend told me they were "selling" mass transit options when they thought they'd go downtown. The thing being that they had signs up that had unbuilt options - including the proposed BRT line and streetcar (not shockingly, they'd have a hand in designing both of those), neither of which helped anyone living west of Westroads - which is the biggest commuting problem in Omaha.
Re: HDR
Ben wrote:Informed sources say Aksarben... Nothing signed yet, but in final negotiations now. No indications as to what parcel of land.
Zone 6. HDR already designed the building. Doesn't get any faster than that.
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Re: HDR
Since a significant reason why they chose the downtown location was image, I just can't see them completely abandoning that for a West Dodge suburban campus. AK seems like a pretty good compromise between at least a perceived closer commute from West O, but still carry some of the new urban image they were looking for. For those living in the gentrifying older neighborhoods in the city, AK is just as close, if not closer to downtown. It's even a pretty convenient bike commute from many neighborhoods.
I apologize if it's been mentioned before, but was the open space near Gallup ever in the running? That seems like it would fit the compromise of a more suburban-style space with room for cheap parking, but also give a strong downtown presence. It's also harder to get a much better location for a skylike shot than having your building rise up in front of the city as you arrive from the airport.
I apologize if it's been mentioned before, but was the open space near Gallup ever in the running? That seems like it would fit the compromise of a more suburban-style space with room for cheap parking, but also give a strong downtown presence. It's also harder to get a much better location for a skylike shot than having your building rise up in front of the city as you arrive from the airport.
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Re: HDR
I'm pretty much to the point where I just don't give a rat's ash what they do or where they do it.
Re: HDR
I know we've spent a lot of time here discussing the importance of having multiple, strong urban cores, in the metro area.
Everyone is disappointed that no high rise is getting built (even though the one they proposed, was a joke to begin with), but isn't this a "good" thing, in the big picture, for the entire metro?
To me, having multiple urban cores, will only advance the case for expanded mass transit and for more areas.
Just a thought.
Everyone is disappointed that no high rise is getting built (even though the one they proposed, was a joke to begin with), but isn't this a "good" thing, in the big picture, for the entire metro?
To me, having multiple urban cores, will only advance the case for expanded mass transit and for more areas.
Just a thought.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill
Re: HDR
Absolutely right. I think the main issue most people have is that traffic is already |expletive| in the area.S33 wrote:I know we've spent a lot of time here discussing the importance of having multiple, strong urban cores, in the metro area.
Everyone is disappointed that no high rise is getting built (even though the one they proposed, was a joke to begin with), but isn't this a "good" thing, in the big picture, for the entire metro?
To me, having multiple urban cores, will only advance the case for expanded mass transit and for more areas.
Just a thought.
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