HDR Proposed Downtown Office
Moderators: Coyote, nebugeater, Brad, Omaha Cowboy, BRoss
Re: HDR
Because of how easily everything seemingly fell apart over 100 parking spaces, my guess is that HDR would have found a reason to not build downtown even if the OPA deal went through. Yes, the agreement mandated that HDR would have obtained the parking lot, but there was nothing in the agreement that mandated HDR build on it. HDR could have just as easily decided to not build for whatever reason, then waited a few years until the Capitol District took off (all the while collecting the parking fees), and ultimately sold the land for several times what they paid OPA for it. We very well could have ended up with no HDR AND fewer historic buildings downtown. Those are my thoughts anyways...
- PotatoeEatsFish
- Human Relations
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:59 pm
Re: HDR
Good idea, let's tear down all the unique old buildings because you know, history doesn't matter at all. I hear that Old Market place didn't have any historical significance either, why not tear that down.Guest wrote:Globochem, forget about the vinyl siding. You're missing the point. A fantastic development opportunity fell through not because of a building where a historic event happened or because the building itself was historic (sorry, it is like many other old buildings of which some have come and gone) the only difference is the front exterior façade of this building was unique. That's it, nothing more. We bungled a 9 figure development that would have put a major employer with high paying jobs in the very vibrant core the hipsters claim they want to improve because the exterior façade of one building was too significant to lose. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water...
Forget DSM. Fill in any other peer city. It isn't a DSM-Omaha thing. They are just the closest to us. Frankly, Lincoln is as big of a threat. They already have Omaha beat on an arena entertainment district.
You live in Omaha not Berlin. Not many "historically significant" things have happened here. But we still need to preserve the past.
#SaveTheUglyGrainSilos2024
- TitosBuritoBarn
- Planning Board
- Posts: 3046
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: St. Louis
Re: HDR
We don't have many historic buildings left. OPA could easily work around the buildings or integrate them, there's plenty of room, but they chose not to.Guest wrote:Yep, you guys are right we can never tear down any structure due to historical significance. Can't wait until the hipsters chain themselves to the State Office Building. Undoubtedly a different standard will be applied then though.
Who would care about the state office building being torn down?
"Video game violence is not a new problem. Who could forget in the wake of SimCity how children everywhere took up urban planning." - Stephen Colbert
Re: HDR
Probably the second dumbest thing I've seen here in a week.Guest wrote:Yep, you guys are right we can never tear down any structure due to historical significance. Can't wait until the hipsters chain themselves to the State Office Building. Undoubtedly a different standard will be applied then though.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.
The Bride
The Bride
Re: HDR
You just challenged him. Seriously?RNcyanide wrote:Probably the second dumbest thing I've seen here in a week.Guest wrote:Yep, you guys are right we can never tear down any structure due to historical significance. Can't wait until the hipsters chain themselves to the State Office Building. Undoubtedly a different standard will be applied then though.
Some people are just not that thoughtful. Anyone who is not pleased about the surviving buildings has a narrow view and isn't likely to be convinced. I agree with the thought that this project was in trouble for a variety of reasons and those buildings were just one. OPAS would be a better thing to point at IMO.
On the new location, its more buttoned up than last time, I haven't heard anything that sounded official at all.
Re: HDR
So is this the standard now? In other words, there must be a significant number of people whose subjective opinions matter in order to save a building. What is amusing is that if I say the Specht building should be demolished for a once in a couple decade economic opportunity (not because I think the building is ugly - I don't dislike the building's appearance) I get comments like the following:Who would care about the state office building being torn down?
BUT, other smarter people on this forum are allowed to say the following about demolishing other buildings:RNcyanide wrote:Probably the second dumbest thing I've seen here in a week.Guest wrote:Yep, you guys are right we can never tear down any structure due to historical significance. Can't wait until the hipsters chain themselves to the State Office Building. Undoubtedly a different standard will be applied then though.
The ugly red brick building is demoed and the site prepped for re-development.
I hope they build there. I hate that building.
Who is to say that the State Office Building or the Main Library or the Civic for that matter aren't historical buildings? In 50 years all three will be in the same position as Specht. However, they won't be allowed to reach that point by the very people who are protecting Specht. It is all water under the bridge at this point but it is head-scratching how subjective opinion is the driver in all of this. I will give credit where credit is due though. GetUrban and some others at least acknowledge that the library, for example, should be retained as it is representation of architecture of its period.If they have to tear down any existing buildings, please let it be the State Office Building.
Re: HDR
Well, fortunately a process already exists, administered through our city government, to determine which buildings or districts are worthy of saving....
http://landmark.cityofomaha.org/preservation-program
The criteria for saving worthy structures is pretty well spelled out here. These criteria are subject to change at the will of the people. I think in the coming years you'll see a push to save more mid-century modern buildings, some of which are despised by the same people wanting to save 1880-1940 buildings. The city needs to keep good representations from many time periods and not wipe everything from one period out.We need to add to and work around the building stock we have and increase the overall density. We should not expect a clean slate every time we build build something new.
But, if the established preservation process ever fails to satisfy enough of the people who are interested in saving something, the possibility always exists to protest and petition the property owners, developers, city council and mayor directly to save something.
http://landmark.cityofomaha.org/preservation-program
The criteria for saving worthy structures is pretty well spelled out here. These criteria are subject to change at the will of the people. I think in the coming years you'll see a push to save more mid-century modern buildings, some of which are despised by the same people wanting to save 1880-1940 buildings. The city needs to keep good representations from many time periods and not wipe everything from one period out.We need to add to and work around the building stock we have and increase the overall density. We should not expect a clean slate every time we build build something new.
But, if the established preservation process ever fails to satisfy enough of the people who are interested in saving something, the possibility always exists to protest and petition the property owners, developers, city council and mayor directly to save something.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
Re: HDR
It's not out. Everyone who is saying that is incorrect. The "two campuses" are 30 acres each - and only one of them has been announced [as you've stated]. If you look at First National Business Park, it is 80 acres with 4 substantial buildings (FNBO/Yahoo, Zurich, Tenaska, BalatyneStrong/TransCanada/One), room for at least two others (replace the FNBO Branch on 144th, the empty lot behind FNBO where they were to build their additional buildings, and add a parking structure on the surface lot between FNBO and Tenaska), 30+ large houses and a pond/lake. If you separate the lake and houses, you're still probably left with 40 acres - with all of those buildings/parking structures.Guest wrote:Not sure why it is concluded that the Applied Underwriters Boys Town property is out. The articles have clearly stated that the preliminary plans include room for TWO corporate campuses. One is presumably AU but the other could be HDR.
To think that only two companies will occupy the full 2-site, 60 acres of the new Boys Town development, you're kidding yourself. Applied Underwriters is taking the first one - as reported - and will build a nice building on several acres but will [probably] not occupy all 30 acres of the first site. It's likely that HDR is still in play for the second site - or leasing a building on the Applied Underwriters land that they design/build (HDR probably doesn't want to own the land they build on anyways - they don't now - why are we assuming that would change?)
Re: HDR
HDR didnt pull out because the buildings weren't going to be razed. They pulled out becaus OPAS got greedy.
Second. A 14 story building isnt a once in a two decade opportunity. Look back at the last two decades and see all the construction that has gone on. Shoot, we have a 14 and 12 story being built right now. Do you not read this forum other than to troll?
Someone has their jimmies rustled and are hiding behind an anonymous user to be a doosh.
Second. A 14 story building isnt a once in a two decade opportunity. Look back at the last two decades and see all the construction that has gone on. Shoot, we have a 14 and 12 story being built right now. Do you not read this forum other than to troll?
Someone has their jimmies rustled and are hiding behind an anonymous user to be a doosh.
- nativeomahan
- County Board
- Posts: 5367
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:46 pm
- Location: Omaha and Puerto Vallarta
Re: HDR
I thought that HDR decided to make a move because they had a tight deadline to be out of their present home on 84th Street? Well ha ha ha ha to that. Months are flying by and nothing is being done to build them a new home.
I guess I just don't understand rich people and their problems.
I guess I just don't understand rich people and their problems.
- skinzfan23
- City Council
- Posts: 9257
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:26 am
- Location: Omaha/Bellevue
Re: HDR
nativeomahan wrote:I thought that HDR decided to make a move because they had a tight deadline to be out of their present home on 84th Street? Well ha ha ha ha to that. Months are flying by and nothing is being done to build them a new home.
I guess I just don't understand rich people and their problems.
Re: HDR
While you're at it, why not blame all of the other occupied properties downtown too, for being in the way of absolutely anything OPAS/HDR wants to do now or in the future?
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
Re: HDR
No, I get it. I'm just saying HDR was in the driver's seat to find a solution which gave themselves and OPAS what they wanted, AND preserved the buildings that already occupied the space they thought they absolutely must have. They had a whole city block for god's sake, and all but a small portion of Dodge to Douglas 12th to 11th, but they couldn't find a solution. Sometimes you have to work around things that are in the way, rather than simply eliminate them. In other cities, much more substantial structures are built on quarter blocks or smaller pieces of property.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
Re: HDR
Guest wrote:guest2 wrote:HR Paperstacks wrote:I don't get why people keep trying to compare Omaha with DSM. While they have a lot going on at the moment and are a pretty hip city in our region, they are not quite on the same level of us and would have to stick at their current pace for a couple hundred years to catch up. Yes their skyline is better, but as others have said that doesn't really mean much.Guest wrote:Given how much most forumers here still want HDR downtown, it must be a significant opportunity. My goodness, only on this forum could a 1,000+ very high paying jobs be viewed as "whatever". Most of you guys will look good in Des Moines's rearview mirror in 20 years after they surpass Omaha.
I've seen plenty of good downtown Omaha skyline pictures but none of Des Moines. I have driven through Des Moines plenty of times but can't say I recall what downtown Des Moines looks like. Does anyone have the "money shot" pic of the downtown Des Moines skyline to compare? And yes, I think that would be accurate about Des Moines catching up to Omaha. Omaha is still growing at a pretty good clip itself and has a lot going for it.
thats a good shot but you can find plenty of great shots downtown omaha
Re: HDR
I have read the threads. Most, if not all are just speculation. It's not like it was the first architectural problem that ever had any constraints to accommodate....building on a whole block downtown next to another adjacent block with it's own set of constraints.stabone99 wrote:If you haven't read all of the threads in their entirety, you probably should as the current issues HDR has were well laid out. HDR was not going to fit square peg in round hole, just to be downtown.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
Re: HDR
The decision to designate the Specht as a local landmark and place it on the National Register had already been made through the normal channels long ago. It was OPA & HDR who first wanted it demolished way back when the Holland was built. They lost the battle then and chose to fight it again in late 2015 & early 2016. It is an example of a legitimate man-made constraint architects must often accommodate, not unlike property lines, easements, zoning, codes, neighboring buildings, etc. I agree it's not complicated...the solution, that is.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.
...and then they were gone.
Re: HDR
It's quite clear where you stand on preservation. That said, HDR and OPA are playing hardball. They are acting like |expletive| with this process. Imho, they can go |expletive| themselves. Despite what they said, there are many properties that could suit their needs. To blame the preservationists is in very poor taste.MTO wrote:And who created all that bad publicity, publicity that created those constraints, constraints that derailed the whole thing. It's not complicated regardless how you try to spin it.
-
- Parks & Recreation
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:45 pm
- Location: Omaha Metro Area
Re: HDR
From what I have heard, greedy would be a very faint estimate of what OPA got. Psychotic may be too strong, but definitely not right in the heads.Erik wrote:HDR didnt pull out because the buildings weren't going to be razed. They pulled out becaus OPAS got greedy.
The old buidings are cool. Not sure why they are a suddenly a trump card for blocking HDR but weren't one for blocking the Holland Center in the first place. We had a nice bar and other things there before they "accidently" blew up Frankie Pane's.
Really though folks, I know a lot of you are urbanists and love all things old, but gain some perspective. HDR was about to drop massive money into downtown. They were going to bring 3000 unhappy commuters to downtown and many of them would have relocated there. For the sake of a couple of old buildings and OPA crazies, what could have been a nice bolus of new blood into downtown, (particularly engineers and architects and people who work global contracts and are thus working after 5 when downtown shuts down), we gave up a lot of potential gain. Really wish the urban planner types would divert from sweating over old stuff and go after the idiots that screwed up that deal (You know, names, dates, and places.)
Now, HDR will sell their current site to a neighboring facility and build out west. All their current employees living in West O, will keep their fat paychecks in Millard. Well done gang. Hope you enjoy the buidlings and the empty lots. I have a feeling it will be a long time before anyone with the money to do so, will want to build downtown.
-
- Human Relations
- Posts: 552
- Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:32 am
- Location: Lincoln, NE
Re: HDR
Well said, bigredmed. I expect the reply will be that OPAS and HDR could have incorporated the old buildings. The simple response: that is all good and fine when you are talking about spending someone else's money. If HDR doesn't end up downtown, and I expect they won't, DT Omaha will have lost a great opportunity to take things to the next level. And, I say that irrespective of how tall the HDR HQ would be. Get over that issue folks - the jobs and economic impact mean way more than the height of the building.
Re: HDR
Right now, they have 900 local employees, with the goal to expand to 1,500.bigredmed wrote:They were going to bring 3000 unhappy commuters to downtown and many of them would have relocated there.
They don't own their current building. It's leased from The Durham Foundation.bigredmed wrote:Now, HDR will sell their current site to a neighboring facility and build out west.
Re: HDR
It's already hard enough to get companies to relocate downtown now you obstructionists just added another thing for any prospective business to worry about. If they cried over that tiny store front what else will they cry about....
15-17, 26, 32
Re: HDR
I am happy that i have more power than hdr. I am feeling rather spiffy with my victory. I think i will try to obstruct every downtown development i can, starting with obstructing the demolition of storz. My big f-you to the city.MTO wrote:It's already hard enough to get companies to relocate downtown now you obstructionists just added another thing for any prospective business to worry about. If they cried over that tiny store front what else will they cry about....
- I crushed HDR, who's next? -
Re: HDR
This is spectacularly wrong headed. HDR failed to meet HDR's design build goals. Yes, OPAS changed its deal, but only slightly. And no deal falls through over 100 parking stalls depreciating over 50 years when there are $37 million in incentives. The narrative that preservationists somehow blocked this deal is patently false, no matter what scapegoat we might be looking for. HDR is still playing us for fools.MTO wrote:It's already hard enough to get companies to relocate downtown now you obstructionists just added another thing for any prospective business to worry about. If they cried over that tiny store front what else will they cry about....
Perhaps one should stroll through these empty fields (and parking lots) sometime and then ask onesself how HDR couldn't make the site work.
Perhaps then the excuses will finally stop making sense.
And by the way, anyone who cares about attracting high quality talent from top tier cities will have to build downtown. Provide a walkable, lively urban environment. Companies that don't aren't interested in competing at the highest level. If you think HDR witsl when placating a few disgruntled car addicts commuting downtown, try selling a suburban Omaha lifestyle to a New Yorker. Fat chance.
Re: HDR
Uhhhhh. Other peoples' money?! What about the $37 million the CITY was offering in incentives. When is enough enough? HDR will have burned every bridge at the Mayor's Office in this deal if they move out west. Especially due to their own incompetence.CapitalGuy wrote:Well said, bigredmed. I expect the reply will be that OPAS and HDR could have incorporated the old buildings. The simple response: that is all good and fine when you are talking about spending someone else's money. If HDR doesn't end up downtown, and I expect they won't, DT Omaha will have lost a great opportunity to take things to the next level. And, I say that irrespective of how tall the HDR HQ would be. Get over that issue folks - the jobs and economic impact mean way more than the height of the building.
Re: HDR
I hope they announce soon just so this thread can die honestly. The pissing contest is getting old.
There are plenty of people to "blame" that the first announcement didn't come together from both sides. In reality it is kind of ridiculous that a solution couldn't be found to make everyone happy. Stubbornness and lack of creativity across the board.
HDR for announcing their plans before securing the land, OPA for overplaying their hand in the land grab, preservationists for not wanting more of Omaha's stock tore down, small gov't people that didn't like the amount of capital that the city was giving up, HDR OPA and the city for not finding a way to figure out 100 parking stalls.
Heck you can even blame ConAgra's departure that opened a wound in the city about handing over too much to corporate interests. You can even blame decades of transportation and city planning decisions that have designed a city that demands this many parking stalls in the core.
There is plenty of blame to go around. No one is changing their mind. HDR and OPA were looking out for their best interests, can't blame them too much. The citizens were brought into the discussion when the city was going to buy the buildings and give them away, the common citizens deserve a voice as much as that doesn't seem to be the case so often. All parties were looking out for self interests and no one can be faulted for that. Where the fault lies is the lack of creativity to find alternative solutions and lack of communication between all parties IMO.
There are plenty of people to "blame" that the first announcement didn't come together from both sides. In reality it is kind of ridiculous that a solution couldn't be found to make everyone happy. Stubbornness and lack of creativity across the board.
HDR for announcing their plans before securing the land, OPA for overplaying their hand in the land grab, preservationists for not wanting more of Omaha's stock tore down, small gov't people that didn't like the amount of capital that the city was giving up, HDR OPA and the city for not finding a way to figure out 100 parking stalls.
Heck you can even blame ConAgra's departure that opened a wound in the city about handing over too much to corporate interests. You can even blame decades of transportation and city planning decisions that have designed a city that demands this many parking stalls in the core.
There is plenty of blame to go around. No one is changing their mind. HDR and OPA were looking out for their best interests, can't blame them too much. The citizens were brought into the discussion when the city was going to buy the buildings and give them away, the common citizens deserve a voice as much as that doesn't seem to be the case so often. All parties were looking out for self interests and no one can be faulted for that. Where the fault lies is the lack of creativity to find alternative solutions and lack of communication between all parties IMO.
Re: HDR
So could Detroit. It's bad city policy. Learn a lesson from Conagra for cripes sake. There's no good in selling your soul for the lowest dollar.MTO wrote:I'm sure DSM could make them an offer they can't refuse in their core.
Re: HDR
Erik wrote:I am happy that i have more power than hdr. I am feeling rather spiffy with my victory. I think i will try to obstruct every downtown development i can, starting with obstructing the demolition of storz. My big f-you to the city.MTO wrote:It's already hard enough to get companies to relocate downtown now you obstructionists just added another thing for any prospective business to worry about. If they cried over that tiny store front what else will they cry about....
- I crushed HDR, who's next? -
-
- Parks & Recreation
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:45 pm
- Location: Omaha Metro Area
Re: HDR
From what I heard, the mayor's office is not even close to mad at HDR. OPA is not so lucky.Globochem wrote:Uhhhhh. Other peoples' money?! What about the $37 million the CITY was offering in incentives. When is enough enough? HDR will have burned every bridge at the Mayor's Office in this deal if they move out west. Especially due to their own incompetence.CapitalGuy wrote:Well said, bigredmed. I expect the reply will be that OPAS and HDR could have incorporated the old buildings. The simple response: that is all good and fine when you are talking about spending someone else's money. If HDR doesn't end up downtown, and I expect they won't, DT Omaha will have lost a great opportunity to take things to the next level. And, I say that irrespective of how tall the HDR HQ would be. Get over that issue folks - the jobs and economic impact mean way more than the height of the building.