MadMartin8 wrote:Awesome, those old buildings that no one really cared about prior to all of this are safe.
99.9% of us still don't care about those 3 old buildings.
Wrong. There was a big public outcry. Seeminly everyone I knew was against tearing them down. Besides, I was only happy about this downtown move because of the jobs. Had they built this tower, it would have been forgotten about in 5 years. It was too insignificant of a building and we are loaded with 10-20 story structures as is.
The jobs are staying in the city. That's what really counts.
I think that a lot of the "widespread opposition" to the original project was internet fueled, kind of like KONY 2012. Now that HDR is going to relocate elsewhere, people can go back to forgetting that the three buildings even existed.
jessep28 wrote:I think that a lot of the "widespread opposition" to the original project was internet fueled, kind of like KONY 2012. Now that HDR is going to relocate elsewhere, people can go back to forgetting that the three buildings even existed.
It's an average 12 (14) story building. The structure was so insignificant that I almost forgot that it was even going to be built.
Relocate elsewhere in Omaha. They're not leaving the city.
So my jokes were truth? They are that dumb? Really? 100 years of being in business as an architecture and engineering firm and your own headquarters gets scrapped by cost overruns and poor scheduling? Is that not just a business tactic? Here's the sort of confidence I'd want in an architecture firm, one that can't get it's own building right and plan B is, let's be realistic, an office park on a three digit street where architecture goes to die.
And what sort of downtown has developed since I've left that there is exactly one suitable lot remaining to build a large building? What Manhattan has since developed that I have missed out on?
"Video game violence is not a new problem. Who could forget in the wake of SimCity how children everywhere took up urban planning." - Stephen Colbert
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:So my jokes were truth? They are that dumb? Really? 100 years of being in business as an architecture and engineering firm and your own headquarters gets scrapped by cost overruns and poor scheduling? Is that not just a business tactic? Here's the sort of confidence I'd want in an architecture firm, one that can't get it's own building right and plan B is, let's be realistic, an office park on a three digit street where architecture goes to die.
And what sort of downtown has developed since I've left that there is exactly one suitable lot remaining to build a large building? What Manhattan has since developed that I have missed out on?
As disappointing as this is, I'm confident DTO will keep growing and it'll still be a huge version of Aksarben. Perhaps there will be fewer large companies in DTO and instead there will be more smaller-mid-size firms and startups headquartered there.
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:So my jokes were truth? They are that dumb? Really? 100 years of being in business as an architecture and engineering firm and your own headquarters gets scrapped by cost overruns and poor scheduling? Is that not just a business tactic? Here's the sort of confidence I'd want in an architecture firm, one that can't get it's own building right and plan B is, let's be realistic, an office park on a three digit street where architecture goes to die.
And what sort of downtown has developed since I've left that there is exactly one suitable lot remaining to build a large building? What Manhattan has since developed that I have missed out on?
I think this sends a pretty clear message that they and OPA thought they were going to get handed everything they wanted. They didn't want another lot b/c they didn't really want DT all that much, they wanted to facilitate OPA's ambitions.
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:So my jokes were truth? They are that dumb? Really? 100 years of being in business as an architecture and engineering firm and your own headquarters gets scrapped by cost overruns and poor scheduling? Is that not just a business tactic? Here's the sort of confidence I'd want in an architecture firm, one that can't get it's own building right and plan B is, let's be realistic, an office park on a three digit street where architecture goes to die.
And what sort of downtown has developed since I've left that there is exactly one suitable lot remaining to build a large building? What Manhattan has since developed that I have missed out on?
My thoughts exactly. This does not look good to potential clients. Other A/E firms they are competing with are sure to work this into client interviews if they find out HDR is being considered.
Of course one would have to think that a lot of the staff live in Mike Brady-esc houses in west O, and they don't want to give up their "short" commutes and free parking. It would be interesting to do a GIS analysis of where employees live and find the centroid to locate the HRD HQ. You would probably need to develop a weighting schema to account for the amount of shares an employee owns to make sure the principals in the firm get the location most convenient to them. Using the employee database this would be a simple GIS exercise for someone in the firm to do.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." -- Niels Bohr
Well.. You're never too old to be taught a lesson..
What I've learned from this fiasco, is that I will not believe in another mid to high rise development project proposed for downtown Omaha until I see actual tower cranes and steel at the location..
This assumes, of course, DT Omaha actually gets another proposal of such development plans within the next 3 to 5 years..
And we can count our lucky stars that the Capitol District project finally got off the ground...
Spatial77 wrote:
Of course one would have to think that a lot of the staff live in Mike Brady-esc houses in west O, and they don't want to give up their "short" commutes and free parking. It would be interesting to do a GIS analysis of where employees live and find the centroid to locate the HRD HQ. You would probably need to develop a weighting schema to account for the amount of shares an employee owns to make sure the principals in the firm get the location most convenient to them. Using the employee database this would be a simple GIS exercise for someone in the firm to do.
This scenario not going to happen. You got them doing a 180 degree with this.
Spatial77 wrote:
Of course one would have to think that a lot of the staff live in Mike Brady-esc houses in west O, and they don't want to give up their "short" commutes and free parking. It would be interesting to do a GIS analysis of where employees live and find the centroid to locate the HRD HQ. You would probably need to develop a weighting schema to account for the amount of shares an employee owns to make sure the principals in the firm get the location most convenient to them. Using the employee database this would be a simple GIS exercise for someone in the firm to do.
This scenario not going to happen. You got them doing a 180 degree with this.
Omaha Cowboy wrote:Well.. You're never too old to be taught a lesson..
What I've learned from this fiasco, is that I will not believe in another mid to high rise development project proposed for downtown Omaha until I see actual tower cranes and steel at the location..
This assumes, of course, DT Omaha actually gets another proposal of such development plans within the next 3 to 5 years..
And we can count our lucky stars that the Capitol District project finally got off the ground...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
I was only happy the employees were going to work in downtown. Therefore i am only dissapointed they no longer will.
I never hated the building, i just never liked it. And it's not like we are losing anything out of this. The jobs will still be here as well as the company's future growth.
MadMartin8 wrote:Awesome, those old buildings that no one really cared about prior to all of this are safe.
Yeah, let's blame it on that and not the real reason which is HDR and OPA not getting exactly what they wanted. I would expect these types of comments in the OWH section but not here.
MadMartin8 wrote:Awesome, those old buildings that no one really cared about prior to all of this are safe.
Yeah, let's blame it on that and not the real reason which is HDR and OPA not getting exactly what they wanted. I would expect these types of comments in the OWH section but not here.
Agree! I was shocked to read that "no one really cared about" those buildings! I don't want to see old building torn down. There has been a long history of this city doing so, which is a shame.
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:So my jokes were truth? They are that dumb? Really? 100 years of being in business as an architecture and engineering firm and your own headquarters gets scrapped by cost overruns and poor scheduling? Is that not just a business tactic? Here's the sort of confidence I'd want in an architecture firm, one that can't get it's own building right and plan B is, let's be realistic, an office park on a three digit street where architecture goes to die.
And what sort of downtown has developed since I've left that there is exactly one suitable lot remaining to build a large building? What Manhattan has since developed that I have missed out on?
As disappointing as this is, I'm confident DTO will keep growing and it'll still be a huge version of Aksarben. Perhaps there will be fewer large companies in DTO and instead there will be more smaller-mid-size firms and startups headquartered there.
Spatial77 wrote:
Of course one would have to think that a lot of the staff live in Mike Brady-esc houses in west O, and they don't want to give up their "short" commutes and free parking. It would be interesting to do a GIS analysis of where employees live and find the centroid to locate the HRD HQ. You would probably need to develop a weighting schema to account for the amount of shares an employee owns to make sure the principals in the firm get the location most convenient to them. Using the employee database this would be a simple GIS exercise for someone in the firm to do.
This scenario not going to happen. You got them doing a 180 degree with this.
It's spatial77's fault? What an [expletive]
Thank you Erik!!!! I have never been given so much credit for something totally out of my span of influence... I ROCK
On a more serious note: Again, I find it amazing that an A/E firm could get this deep into a project and then basically say "whops, we made a mistake... this is going to cost too much." I am sorry to see that there will be another new project about to happen in west O surrounded by a sea of parking (as it appears that this is what killed the downtown location). Seems like some smart transportation planner at HDR could have figured out some alternatives to the parking issue (i.e. rideshare, vanpools, teleworking, alternative work schedules, or god forbid mass transit) to deal with this issue.
Of course, as some have speculated, this may be a situation of "we didn't get what we wanted so I'm going to take my ball and play somewhere else", as the public didn't fawn over the plan HDR and OPA developed.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." -- Niels Bohr
Guestish wrote:Speaking of a suburban campus site...HDR for Lonergan Lake? It is still for sale
Seems like it's WAY too big of a site for HDR. 450+ acres for one company with 900-1200 employees? ...unless it's part of some much bigger development. But what other companies would go into that along with them? The demand for housing development has moved much further west, toward Bennington (schools)...although 60+ houses are in the works at Northern Hills Estates I, II, & III, just east of the North Omaha Airport (3NO).
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
I've also heard this from a friend of some of the developers in town and my engineer buddy.
If they think they would have had a parking problem downtown, they'll be in for a rude awakening at Aksarben, competing with UNO, Baxter and all of the other stuff going in that area. Aksarben has nowhere near the number of multiple points of access downtown has. Pacific, Center, Mercy & 72nd are it. I'm sure they would build a garage, but getting to it would be a problem.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
This is why we can't have nice things. This, TDAmeritrade, whoever that is out at 204th and wherever. heck, Blue Cross moved to downtown Detroit. There is absolutely no excuse for large companies not to locate downtown. This fiasco points out a couple of things. One, while any other city would drop its pants for an OPA, OPA in this instance looked like an arrogant, ignorant group of blue hairs. Two, the powers that be in Omaha sometimes don't appear (to me, anyway) to be able to pull off many large projects. Mutual did theirs on their own & Aksarben Village while nice is not Crown Plaza. That ConAgra left shows the gravitational pull Omaha seems to have.
MadMartin8 wrote:Awesome, those old buildings that no one really cared about prior to all of this are safe.
Yeah, let's blame it on that and not the real reason which is HDR and OPA not getting exactly what they wanted. I would expect these types of comments in the OWH section but not here.
Prior to the public outcry that gave rise of this, where were people on these buildings? What, besides their architecture is notably historic? I'll await to be corrected if they have a notable historic past gladly.
In order to keep companies here, and jobs, companies will demand concessions and unfortunately they have all the leverage in that deal. It sucks, but it's what you get. You either keep the company downtown, or you dance around buildings that have, ultimately, limited uses in the grand scheme of things. Given the choice, I prefer a large influx of jobs downtown and the new growth that would lead to.
If they built in the city of Boys Town, how would that be handled? Could HDR make a tax deductible donation in return for the land? Would Omaha instantly annex whatever they built on? Are there other tax incentives for a move like this?
Back when they announced the downtown location a friend was disappointed as he liked the Boys Town option better.
This is a huge loss for downtown, and Omaha as a whole. There are maybe one or two companies in Omaha that could build a office downtown. Attracting a new headquarters here is even more difficult. HDR would have anchored that part of downtown for years to come, creating more residential, retail and entertainment options. The expansion is OPA would have been nearly as big as HDR's move downtown. The sacrifice of the 3 old buildings would have been worth it.
However, as of a month ago, I was hearing that HDR was unsure if they would be going downtown. I asked a Kewit guy if they were bidding the project and he said, don't hold your breath on it getting done. He claimed that the downtown location was driven very hard by the mayors office and HDRs cost continued to climb for a variety of reasons. Parking being one.
The city did offer up plans for parking, but if you were building your corporate headquarters, wouldn't you want full control over parking? Talk to some of those employees who work at first national about their parking (location and cost).
Aksarben would be a great place, however I don't know what land would be available quickly for them. The Crossroads project would get done quickly if they went there.
Guest wrote:Sad it's not going downtown. Hopefully it ends up in Aksarben or maybe it's what could get the Crossroads project going.
Please not Aksarben. Assuming the Waite bldg continues and doesn't get subsumed by HDR, Aksarben doesn't have a place for HDR and it certainly can't deal with 1400 employees traffic. Sure, some of them might live in the apartments that are currently being built (Cue) or just being started (S of Center) but I don't think that would be enough to solve the traffic problem even with out Baxter having anything going on--just on a normal day in day out basis.
NovakOmaha wrote:I'm going to post this elsewhere as well.
This is why we can't have nice things. This, TDAmeritrade, whoever that is out at 204th and wherever. heck, Blue Cross moved to downtown Detroit. There is absolutely no excuse for large companies not to locate downtown. This fiasco points out a couple of things. One, while any other city would drop its pants for an OPA, OPA in this instance looked like an arrogant, ignorant group of blue hairs. Two, the powers that be in Omaha sometimes don't appear (to me, anyway) to be able to pull off many large projects. Mutual did theirs on their own & Aksarben Village while nice is not Crown Plaza. That ConAgra left shows the gravitational pull Omaha seems to have.
To be fair, I don't think there's anything Omaha could have done with ConAgra. ConAgra was going through massive executive turnover, massive reorganization and its new leader was from Chicago. That was far, far out of civic hands.
Username1 wrote:If they built in the city of Boys Town, how would that be handled? Could HDR make a tax deductible donation in return for the land? Would Omaha instantly annex whatever they built on? Are there other tax incentives for a move like this?
Back when they announced the downtown location a friend was disappointed as he liked the Boys Town option better.
If they build around Boys Town, it's likely going to be in the already established office park on the North side of Dodge. Unless maybe they want to construct an HDR Plaza. But to parcel out and build on say the farmland, you would have large capital costs to get utilities and roads built.
Username1 wrote:If they built in the city of Boys Town, how would that be handled? Could HDR make a tax deductible donation in return for the land? Would Omaha instantly annex whatever they built on? Are there other tax incentives for a move like this?
Back when they announced the downtown location a friend was disappointed as he liked the Boys Town option better.
If they build around Boys Town, it's likely going to be in the already established office park on the North side of Dodge. Unless maybe they want to construct an HDR Plaza. But to parcel out and build on say the farmland, you would have large capital costs to get utilities installed and roads built.
It boggles my mind that HDR, an architectlure firm, can't figure out how/where to build its own HQ. Anything in West O would be a blow. Aksarben Village would be an awful place for this, read above.
In regards to MTC, this might seem silly but I think more high rises in MTC would turn Omaha into a mini Atlanta DT. Out of all skylines, ATL has to be the worst in America.
They floated a lot of the same sites in the article that have been floated on here. They did cite parking as a big issue. Also, they rejected the Civic site, and I don't really blame them.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.
Cindy Gonzalez and Roseann Moring - World-Herald staff writers wrote:One potential midtown site is at Aksarben Village near 67th and Center Streets. Noddle Companies, the lead developer of Aksarben, for a year has been marketing a tract that has room for 350,000 square feet of office and retail space, 1,500 parking stalls and 100 apartments.
In fact, a schematic architectural design already has been drawn up — by HDR. Asked about HDR, Jay Noddle of Noddle Companies said: “We certainly hope that Aksarben Village will be a possibility for HDR.”
MTO wrote:Our downtown is becoming a novelty anymore and I'm beginning to loath AV thankfully it's almost full.
Agreed. If they won't go downtown, I'd prefer to see them go to Mid-Town Crossing, rather than Ak Village. Ak doesn't need any more office density, imo. I hate thinking about all of the potential tenants that have been drawn away from DT, as other's have mentioned.
It seems more likely they'll go somewhere out west though...if they caved to internal employee pressure to steer clear of downtown due to the perceived difficulty commuting to and parking downtown. One thing for sure...HDR won't now be perceived as a cool place to work by young architects and engineers looking for an exciting urban environment to work in.
