State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossible

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joeglow
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State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossible

Post by joeglow »

State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossible

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Stat ... 93044.html
www.wowt.com wrote:The accounting and record keeping in the Omaha Fire Department has been so bad for so long, that the Nebraska State Auditor said he is unable to even do an audit. The state of the department's finances was made public at a news conference Thursday morning, called by Omaha Mayor Jim Suttle.

The main issue is the payroll process within the department which points to deficiencies in record keeping. There is no proof whether firefighters were working their assigned hours, which they were being paid for. State Auditor, Mike Foley, calls the process "inadequate and unreliable" and says it has been that way "for quite some time."
Good thing our great mayor refuses to look into this treasure trove of cost savings, instead hangs out at McFly's with the fire union after his Town Halls and resorts to only raising taxes.  So much for him being a creative, outside-the-box, engineer who comes up with great ideas.  Equally amazing is the people will STILL defend this crook.
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by icejammer »

joeglow wrote:Good thing our great mayor refuses to look into this treasure trove of cost savings, instead hangs out at McFly's with the fire union after his Town Halls and resorts to only raising taxes.  So much for him being a creative, outside-the-box, engineer who comes up with great ideas.  Equally amazing is the people will STILL defend this crook.
Just how exactly do you pin this on Suttle, or that he refuses to look into "this treasure trove of cost savings"?  From reading the report, the Auditor recognizes efforts made by the City in the past year to implement tighter controls, and recommends even more.  Where has this control been for the past 20 years?  

Regardless of who's to blame for the current situation, aren't you glad that new controls are being put in place (or soon will be), so as to improve accountability?  Or are you just so blinded by hate that you can't see the forest for the trees?
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by joeglow »

icejammer wrote:
Regardless of who's to blame for the current situation, aren't you glad that new controls are being put in place (or soon will be), so as to improve accountability?  Or are you just so blinded by hate that you can't see the forest for the trees?
Honestly, I think it is lip service so as to avoid angering the fire union.  If I, as an accountant, were in charge of this, I would have been fired immediately.  Who has gotten canned over it?  

They have blown over their budget every year for MANY years in a row.  Last year, they were $5M over budget.  How can we have ANY confidence that the generous pension packages handed out in the last few years are at all reliable (as they are based on payroll records that are non-existent)?

Why, when private groups were able to simply at look documents made available to the public and brought their finances to his attention MONTHS ago did he not look into it?  Why did he immediately dismiss them?

Why, instead of running to pass tax increases, did he not look into cost savings available in the fire department?  Is he going to come out soon and say "give us some time and we will fix this, thereby generating many cost savings, allowing us to roll back some of these tax increases?"

Aren't you hoping Suttle FINALLY listens to the public and scrutinizes the fire department, cleans house with the inefficient employees who have wasted our money for years, and rolls back tax cuts that will no longer be needed?  Or are you just so blinded by partisan love that you can't see the forest for the trees?
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by Bosco55David »

Who does the accounting for the fire department?
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by the1wags »

Bosco55David wrote:Who does the accounting for the fire department?
Suttle crunched the numbers real quick for them after he had his election party at the Firefighters Union Hall.
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by icejammer »

joeglow wrote:
icejammer wrote:
Regardless of who's to blame for the current situation, aren't you glad that new controls are being put in place (or soon will be), so as to improve accountability?  Or are you just so blinded by hate that you can't see the forest for the trees?
Honestly, I think it is lip service so as to avoid angering the fire union.  If I, as an accountant, were in charge of this, I would have been fired immediately.  Who has gotten canned over it?  
How is it lip service when multiple controls have already been put in place and (presumably) more are forthcoming, per the report?  I don't think an auditor had anything to do with the lack of process, bookkeeping was all done by civilian employees, presumably none of whom were accountants.  As to who gets canned, if people weren't following procedures properly, and their was intent to defraud or commit a crime, then let the legal system take over, otherwise let City policy dictate personnel issues.
They have blown over their budget every year for MANY years in a row.  Last year, they were $5M over budget.  How can we have ANY confidence that the generous pension packages handed out in the last few years are at all reliable (as they are based on payroll records that are non-existent)?
It remains to be seen why they've blown their budget, and not to quibble, the payroll records lack documentation, they're not non-existent.  Certainly it should be cause for concern that this payroll issue has been on-going for many years, and if there has been intent to defraud, then the legal system should step in.
Why, when private groups were able to simply at look documents made available to the public and brought their finances to his attention MONTHS ago did he not look into it?  Why did he immediately dismiss them?
I'm not familiar with how many months ago this was brought to his attention, but from the report it appears that the administration has been looking into it for many months now.  Whether it was dimissed at first glance, I don't know, but it has been taken seriously now for some time.
Why, instead of running to pass tax increases, did he not look into cost savings available in the fire department?  Is he going to come out soon and say "give us some time and we will fix this, thereby generating many cost savings, allowing us to roll back some of these tax increases?"
Maybe he would, does anyone know for a fact that he won't?  Probably the 2 biggest cost savings areas deal with pension and the number of firefighters per truck - both are going to require Council action (and the Council has looked at both, and not gone far enough, perhaps they should share in some of your wrath).
Aren't you hoping Suttle FINALLY listens to the public and scrutinizes the fire department, cleans house with the inefficient employees who have wasted our money for years, and rolls back tax cuts that will no longer be needed?  Or are you just so blinded by partisan love that you can't see the forest for the trees?
Not blinded by partisan "love" at all, I'm looking at this from all angles without any preconceived ideas.  If there are unnecessary employees, then by all means eliminate.  If cost savings can be realized, by all means, reduce taxes.  But do it in a manner that takes into account all factors, not as a knee-jerk reaction to one of Hal Daub's lapdogs trying to raise a stink.

I doubt Suttle is going to listen anymore than he already has - that doesn't mean he's disengaged from the process though.  Certainly City Council weighs heavily in all of this, and I would go after them with suggestions to reduce waste and try to redirect energies to solving the City's problem, instead of looking out for their best (political) interest.
"Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved."

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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by joeglow »

icejammer wrote: How is it lip service when multiple controls have already been put in place and (presumably) more are forthcoming, per the report?  I don't think an auditor had anything to do with the lack of process, bookkeeping was all done by civilian employees, presumably none of whom were accountants.  As to who gets canned, if people weren't following procedures properly, and their was intent to defraud or commit a crime, then let the legal system take over, otherwise let City policy dictate personnel issues.
The simple fact is that it is screwed up.  Of course I am not saying the rank and file employee who was simply following procedure should be canned.  However, SOMEONE had control over what policy was in place.  That person should have known it was not adequate.  If you want to claim the ignorance excuse, then the person who hired someone (or continued to manage said person) who lacked those skills should be canned.  The simple fact is that you CANNOT claim no one had responsibility over this.

The auditors job is to confirm if someone is doing what they are already supposed to be doing.  I can't do |expletive|, have our external auditors come in and identify it and then say "okay, I will fix it."  The plain fact is that I/my company should have had it right from the get go.  That is why companies with restatements face fines from the SEC and people are fired.  Sadly, as with many other areas, the standards governments hold private companies/individuals to are completely different from the standards they hold themselves to.

icejammer wrote:It remains to be seen why they've blown their budget, and not to quibble, the payroll records lack documentation, they're not non-existent.  Certainly it should be cause for concern that this payroll issue has been on-going for many years, and if there has been intent to defraud, then the legal system should step in.
-There are 2 separate issues at play here.  Fraud has yet to be determined and I agree with you.  However, there should NEVER have been lax policies in place.  I GUARANTEE there are few companies the size of the OFD with this problem and those that do have it, would face serious penalties from government oversight committees.
icejammer wrote:I'm not familiar with how many months ago this was brought to his attention, but from the report it appears that the administration has been looking into it for many months now.  Whether it was dimissed at first glance, I don't know, but it has been taken seriously now for some time.
As of right now, it appears it was Nabbity's group that brought it to light.  And, it appears to be quite reasonable that when he brought it to Suttle, it was dismissed out of hand.  It looks like Nabiity had to go to the state auditor to get everything looked at.  If this is all true, it only further highlights Suttle's corrupt leanings towards the OFD.

icejammer wrote:Not blinded by partisan "love" at all, I'm looking at this from all angles without any preconceived ideas.  If there are unnecessary employees, then by all means eliminate.  If cost savings can be realized, by all means, reduce taxes.  But do it in a manner that takes into account all factors, not as a knee-jerk reaction to one of Hal Daub's lapdogs trying to raise a stink.

I doubt Suttle is going to listen anymore than he already has - that doesn't mean he's disengaged from the process though.  Certainly City Council weighs heavily in all of this, and I would go after them with suggestions to reduce waste and try to redirect energies to solving the City's problem, instead of looking out for their best (political) interest.
Fair enough.  I jumped the gun with the "love" comment.  However, the fact remains that there is ZERO excuse for the accounting policies and controls that were in place.  SOMEONE has ownership of those and should pay the price for failing the city and public in their job.  If someone was not in place, then the individual responsible for putting that person in place should pay the price for their negligence.

My problem with Suttle is that he clearly has personal relationships with the OFD and the union.  The evidence appears to be mounting that he ignored warnings as it relates to matters relating to those groups.  That is unacceptable behavior of an elected official who is accountable to ensuring government responsibility.
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Post by InTheO! »

So he's going to give them a 'get out of jail free' card? This is horrible. I've had a feeling we've been over paying to the Fire and Police for years now and no one seems brave enough to take on those unions.
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by HskrFanMike »

joeglow wrote:
icejammer wrote:I'm not familiar with how many months ago this was brought to his attention, but from the report it appears that the administration has been looking into it for many months now.  Whether it was dimissed at first glance, I don't know, but it has been taken seriously now for some time.
As of right now, it appears it was Nabbity's group that brought it to light.  And, it appears to be quite reasonable that when he brought it to Suttle, it was dismissed out of hand.  It looks like Nabiity had to go to the state auditor to get everything looked at.  If this is all true, it only further highlights Suttle's corrupt leanings towards the OFD.

icejammer wrote:Not blinded by partisan "love" at all, I'm looking at this from all angles without any preconceived ideas.  If there are unnecessary employees, then by all means eliminate.  If cost savings can be realized, by all means, reduce taxes.  But do it in a manner that takes into account all factors, not as a knee-jerk reaction to one of Hal Daub's lapdogs trying to raise a stink.

I doubt Suttle is going to listen anymore than he already has - that doesn't mean he's disengaged from the process though.  Certainly City Council weighs heavily in all of this, and I would go after them with suggestions to reduce waste and try to redirect energies to solving the City's problem, instead of looking out for their best (political) interest.
Fair enough.  I jumped the gun with the "love" comment.  However, the fact remains that there is ZERO excuse for the accounting policies and controls that were in place.  SOMEONE has ownership of those and should pay the price for failing the city and public in their job.  If someone was not in place, then the individual responsible for putting that person in place should pay the price for their negligence.

My problem with Suttle is that he clearly has personal relationships with the OFD and the union.  The evidence appears to be mounting that he ignored warnings as it relates to matters relating to those groups.  That is unacceptable behavior of an elected official who is accountable to ensuring government responsibility.
And Nabity has a personal history backing Hal Daub, who's supporters have been openly trying to undermine Suttle since 10:35 pm on Election Night.  We don't know what Suttle did after Nabity made his allegations.  Nabity may have already turned it over to the State Auditor (who is also a Republican) at that point.  Maybe Suttle already started his own internal investigation.

Just because Suttle didn't go on KFAB the next morning to grandstand doesn't mean anything.
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by joeglow »

HskrFanMike wrote:
joeglow wrote:
icejammer wrote:I'm not familiar with how many months ago this was brought to his attention, but from the report it appears that the administration has been looking into it for many months now.  Whether it was dimissed at first glance, I don't know, but it has been taken seriously now for some time.
As of right now, it appears it was Nabbity's group that brought it to light.  And, it appears to be quite reasonable that when he brought it to Suttle, it was dismissed out of hand.  It looks like Nabiity had to go to the state auditor to get everything looked at.  If this is all true, it only further highlights Suttle's corrupt leanings towards the OFD.

icejammer wrote:Not blinded by partisan "love" at all, I'm looking at this from all angles without any preconceived ideas.  If there are unnecessary employees, then by all means eliminate.  If cost savings can be realized, by all means, reduce taxes.  But do it in a manner that takes into account all factors, not as a knee-jerk reaction to one of Hal Daub's lapdogs trying to raise a stink.

I doubt Suttle is going to listen anymore than he already has - that doesn't mean he's disengaged from the process though.  Certainly City Council weighs heavily in all of this, and I would go after them with suggestions to reduce waste and try to redirect energies to solving the City's problem, instead of looking out for their best (political) interest.
Fair enough.  I jumped the gun with the "love" comment.  However, the fact remains that there is ZERO excuse for the accounting policies and controls that were in place.  SOMEONE has ownership of those and should pay the price for failing the city and public in their job.  If someone was not in place, then the individual responsible for putting that person in place should pay the price for their negligence.

My problem with Suttle is that he clearly has personal relationships with the OFD and the union.  The evidence appears to be mounting that he ignored warnings as it relates to matters relating to those groups.  That is unacceptable behavior of an elected official who is accountable to ensuring government responsibility.
And Nabity has a personal history backing Hal Daub, who's supporters have been openly trying to undermine Suttle since 10:35 pm on Election Night.  We don't know what Suttle did after Nabity made his allegations.  Nabity may have already turned it over to the State Auditor (who is also a Republican) at that point.  Maybe Suttle already started his own internal investigation.

Just because Suttle didn't go on KFAB the next morning to grandstand doesn't mean anything.
Which is why I said "appears."  I DO think it is incumbent on Suttle to prove this though.  We, as the taxpayers, have a right to know when it was brought to his attention and what action was taken.
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by HskrFanMike »

joeglow wrote:
HskrFanMike wrote:
joeglow wrote:
icejammer wrote:I'm not familiar with how many months ago this was brought to his attention, but from the report it appears that the administration has been looking into it for many months now.  Whether it was dimissed at first glance, I don't know, but it has been taken seriously now for some time.
As of right now, it appears it was Nabbity's group that brought it to light.  And, it appears to be quite reasonable that when he brought it to Suttle, it was dismissed out of hand.  It looks like Nabiity had to go to the state auditor to get everything looked at.  If this is all true, it only further highlights Suttle's corrupt leanings towards the OFD.

icejammer wrote:Not blinded by partisan "love" at all, I'm looking at this from all angles without any preconceived ideas.  If there are unnecessary employees, then by all means eliminate.  If cost savings can be realized, by all means, reduce taxes.  But do it in a manner that takes into account all factors, not as a knee-jerk reaction to one of Hal Daub's lapdogs trying to raise a stink.

I doubt Suttle is going to listen anymore than he already has - that doesn't mean he's disengaged from the process though.  Certainly City Council weighs heavily in all of this, and I would go after them with suggestions to reduce waste and try to redirect energies to solving the City's problem, instead of looking out for their best (political) interest.
Fair enough.  I jumped the gun with the "love" comment.  However, the fact remains that there is ZERO excuse for the accounting policies and controls that were in place.  SOMEONE has ownership of those and should pay the price for failing the city and public in their job.  If someone was not in place, then the individual responsible for putting that person in place should pay the price for their negligence.

My problem with Suttle is that he clearly has personal relationships with the OFD and the union.  The evidence appears to be mounting that he ignored warnings as it relates to matters relating to those groups.  That is unacceptable behavior of an elected official who is accountable to ensuring government responsibility.
And Nabity has a personal history backing Hal Daub, who's supporters have been openly trying to undermine Suttle since 10:35 pm on Election Night.  We don't know what Suttle did after Nabity made his allegations.  Nabity may have already turned it over to the State Auditor (who is also a Republican) at that point.  Maybe Suttle already started his own internal investigation.

Just because Suttle didn't go on KFAB the next morning to grandstand doesn't mean anything.
Which is why I said "appears."  I DO think it is incumbent on Suttle to prove this though.  We, as the taxpayers, have a right to know when it was brought to his attention and what action was taken.
You are looking to punish Jim Suttle on this, and this is something that broke before Suttle took office.

I'd like to know if it's possible to determine if these processes have been going on for years, and how far does the problem go back?  Did Mike Fahey or one of his appointees break this system?  Was it Hal Daub?  Was it P.J. Morgan?

Every mayor probably has varying degrees of blame on this problem, and a little more light as to the history might pull this thing out of the political realm, and put the focus back on fixing the process rather than using it to drive another agenda.
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Re: State Auditor: Lack of Records Makes OFD Audit Impossibl

Post by joeglow »

HskrFanMike wrote:You are looking to punish Jim Suttle on this, and this is something that broke before Suttle took office.

I'd like to know if it's possible to determine if these processes have been going on for years, and how far does the problem go back?  Did Mike Fahey or one of his appointees break this system?  Was it Hal Daub?  Was it P.J. Morgan?

Every mayor probably has varying degrees of blame on this problem, and a little more light as to the history might pull this thing out of the political realm, and put the focus back on fixing the process rather than using it to drive another agenda.
Buy a business and continue their shoddy accounting practices, get audited by the IRS and get fined and try that crappy defense.  I already addressed that 3rd grade reasoning from someone else.  Think of it like a legal contract.  Yes, all those other mayors are also to blame, but they are all jointly and severally liable.
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Post by icejammer »

Okay, so they're to blame, but now Suttle is trying to fix the problem, and you still want to hang him by the balls over this?  Christ, even the IRS isn't that hard-nosed.....usually....
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Post by Bosco55David »

icejammer wrote:Okay, so they're to blame, but now Suttle is trying to fix the problem, and you still want to hang him by the balls over this?  Christ, even the IRS isn't that hard-nosed.....usually....
Funny how that works huh?
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Post by joeglow »

Bosco55David wrote:
icejammer wrote:Okay, so they're to blame, but now Suttle is trying to fix the problem, and you still want to hang him by the balls over this?  Christ, even the IRS isn't that hard-nosed.....usually....
Funny how that works huh?
Are you two |expletive| kidding me????  He is been in office for a year and a half.  NOTHING had been done up until that point.  Allegedly, a meeting was had with Suttle, where he was notified of the issue.  Suttle was told by citizens that they wanted the fire department evaluated.  Suttle came out with budget cuts that hit EVERY department EXCEPT the fire department.  NOTHING was said or done until the state auditor, at the behest of a private citizen, determines how crappy it is.

Your idea of "trying to fix the problem" is not do a damn thing until it is revealed to the public and THEN say "we are going to implement what the state auditor recommending after looking into what a private citizen could see, but we couldn't."  If you believe that load of |expletive|, I have food I can sell you with less than a 9.5% tax on it.
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Post by InTheO! »

I know this didn't start with him(Suttle) but it can and should end with him. Someone should be fired or even jailed for stealing taxpayers money like this and yes I said steal since that's what it seems to be. Is it because it would anger a union or because an audit is expensive not to mention any criminal charges being filed and all the court fees? I know it would be opening up a can of worms and costing the city possibly millions and I know it's easier to just shrug and order them to make changes. Honestly that sounds like the best thing considering our financial mess right now but it's not the right thing. I would support a massive audit, we need to stop being in fear of the unions like we are.

I know the fire dept. has been wasting money for years. They are over budget almost every year, how is that possible? Remember the boat incident? They spent $23,000 on 'boat stuff' before they even had the boat but had to get a nod from the council to spent over $25,000. They were denied that, obviously since six other agencies already had boats for water rescues. What happened to all the boat stuff? Did they return it or throw it in a spare room? What happens if they find a boat for under 25k? Would they just buy that and not tell anyone? I know what they planned to do with that boat; use it for parties every weekend. I guess I don't have a problem with them wanting to make updates and improvements but this was ridiculous and the fact they were spending money on something they didn't even have yet annoyed me a lot. That's as much as some people make in one year. What else are they wasting money like that on?
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Post by joeglow »

Bosco55David wrote:
InTheO! wrote:I know what they planned to do with that boat; use it for parties every weekend.
No.  They were going to do water rescues.  

Too bad it was not equipped for water rescues - it was much more equipped for partying and relaxing.
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Post by InTheO! »

They say water rescues but comeon, there's maybe two of those a year (from what I remember the numbers being when this was an issue) and six other agencies already had boats for water rescues.
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Post by Bosco55David »

InTheO! wrote:They say water rescues but comeon, there's maybe two of those a year (from what I remember the numbers being when this was an issue) and six other agencies already had boats for water rescues.
You're right. They really wanted a party boat so they could ride up and down the Missouri right under the taxpayer's nose. [/retarded sarcasm]
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Post by joeglow »

Bosco55David wrote:
InTheO! wrote:They say water rescues but comeon, there's maybe two of those a year (from what I remember the numbers being when this was an issue) and six other agencies already had boats for water rescues.
You're right. They really wanted a party boat so they could ride up and down the Missouri right under the taxpayer's nose. [/retarded sarcasm]
I don't think they wanted a party boat.  I think the union DID want a guaranteed couple more fire fighter positions.  Plus, this CLEARLY demonstrates how wasteful they are with taxpayer dollars (and how stupid they think we are).  They kept telling us we were stupid since they were getting a free boat.  Then, when asked by the Council who would staff it, they looked like idiots.
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