HOA's

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bigredmed
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HOA's

Postby bigredmed » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:29 pm

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120209/N ... -hoop-feud

Any of you lawyers or government specialists know of a way to ban these in Nebraska?   These HOA's that manage covenants tend to do exactly what the Judge ruled this one did, selectively enforce "Covenants", and in so doing, ruled that their entire set is invalid.   Thousands of dollars of work hours of arguments over a bleeping basketball hoop.

Seems we should just get ahead of this and blow up these things once and for all.

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Seth
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Postby Seth » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:57 pm

I personally know someone in the neighborhood, who was on Jill's side.  The stories about the vindictive people out to get here were pretty bad.  Some of their behavior reminded me of high school bullying.  My acquaintance who lives there got the impression some of the older residents wanted the neighborhood to be more of a retirement community, and were actively trying to go after young people there (hence attacking the basketball hoop, but not lawn gnomes or rock gardens).

I understand the intent of HOAs, but these mini police states they turn into is insane.  I read another recent story about someone in another West O subdivision who was being sued by his HOA for installing solar panels on his house.  I think reasonable, well-enforced city building codes should be sufficient.  I certainly wouldn't buy a house in one of these restrictive HOA neighborhoods.  Most of them are written for 20 or 30-year periods, and renew for 10-year intervals automatically after that.  You're giving up a lot of rights signing into one of these, and I'll bet most buyers don't know much more about them than finding the page they sign at closing.

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Postby bigredmed » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:23 am

Seth wrote:I personally know someone in the neighborhood, who was on Jill's side.  The stories about the vindictive people out to get here were pretty bad.  Some of their behavior reminded me of high school bullying.  My acquaintance who lives there got the impression some of the older residents wanted the neighborhood to be more of a retirement community, and were actively trying to go after young people there (hence attacking the basketball hoop, but not lawn gnomes or rock gardens).

I understand the intent of HOAs, but these mini police states they turn into is insane.  I read another recent story about someone in another West O subdivision who was being sued by his HOA for installing solar panels on his house.  I think reasonable, well-enforced city building codes should be sufficient.  I certainly wouldn't buy a house in one of these restrictive HOA neighborhoods.  Most of them are written for 20 or 30-year periods, and renew for 10-year intervals automatically after that.  You're giving up a lot of rights signing into one of these, and I'll bet most buyers don't know much more about them than finding the page they sign at closing.


That is the problem with most of these HOA's, it seems.   They are often run by bored retirees, under-employed lawyers, and people who delight in controlling other people.   The lawsuits that get generated from these groups are costly and largely pointless.   I rather find it amusing that the true cost to the HOA of this trial was the Judge throwing out their entire set of covenants due to selective enforcement.

We have yet to hear the result of the solar panel lawsuit.   Hope the judge in that case does the same.

I worry that the effect of these is to squeeze buyers into newer and newer sections of town.   If a buyer wants a house without a HOA, they can buy in the city, but if they also want a brand new house, they have to buy into a subdivision.   As you mention, you give up a lot with these.  Frankly, I just could not stand some nosey neighbor giving me |expletive| over the brand of trash can I use.

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Postby Melissa » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:18 am

HOA's aren't just in the new subdivisions.  I live within the 680 loop and my neighborhood has an HOA.  We are actively self-managed and there generally have not been any problems.  One covenant that is particularly beneficial is that all homes within my HOA must be owner-occupied, which helps maintain our housing values.  

I realize some HOA's are ridiculous, but they do serve a purpose.
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Postby bigredmed » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:45 pm

Melissa wrote:HOA's aren't just in the new subdivisions.  I live within the 680 loop and my neighborhood has an HOA.  We are actively self-managed and there generally have not been any problems.  One covenant that is particularly beneficial is that all homes within my HOA must be owner-occupied, which helps maintain our housing values.  

I realize some HOA's are ridiculous, but they do serve a purpose.


IF you can keep the covenants down to basic stuff like that, they probably would be OK.  Once they start telling people what kind of trash cans they can have, they cross a line that puts them into the "more harm than good" category.

The main concern is the HOA that is run by bored retirees and underemployed lawyers who think that their lawsuit work will help them jumpstart a political career.  These seem to be the main locus of troubles.   Perhaps we should get a law on the books that the HOA board and lawyer has to pay for all fees and costs if they lose?  Maybe that would restrain them from these bogus intrusions into other people's lives?

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Postby cdub » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:50 am

I'm not sure its even legal to have an owner only covenant, but if its working, more power to you.

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Postby Big E » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:01 am

cdub wrote:I'm not sure its even legal to have an owner only covenant, but if its working, more power to you.


Agreed.  IANAL, but I can't possibly imagine how someone could have the legal standing to tell you who can rent a property you own.  This is pretty much the part of the Fremont anti-illegal case that was thrown out.
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Postby S33 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:15 am

Big E wrote:Agreed.  IANAL, but I can't possibly imagine how someone could have the legal standing to tell you who can rent a property you own.  This is pretty much the part of the Fremont anti-illegal case that was thrown out.

You would be surprised how legally binding some of these ridiculous provisions are within HOA's rule books. A buddy of mine lived within a mainly age 50+ neighborhood and they muscled him out. The HOA actually did a "non-judicial foreclosure" on his home. He was afforded no due process rights of which a homeowner would typically have when dealing with a creditor.

Basically, he was trying to seek permission to build a small garden shed for his mowers, yard tools, etc, and after about 16 months and a dozen letters, they never answered him. So he built it. About 2 days after finishing the shed, he finally hears from the HOA and they order him to tear it down or receive a hefty fine.

Not only did he refuse to tear it down, he stopped paying his HOA fees.

So, they foreclosed on him and it cost him...a lot.

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Postby Big E » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:27 am

Sounds to me like he lost an old fashioned dick waving match.  I can't comment on the correspondence, but it sounds like he gave them their loophole by not paying his dues.
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Postby S33 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:03 am

Yeah, he made a really stupid move by not paying his HOA dues, no doubt about that, and he did it out of spite.

As far as the correspondence between the two, it was one sided. The HOA ignored him about the shed almost as it they were baiting him to build it, after spending the first two years lodging complaints, and in some cases, fines, for having vehicles foreign to the neighborhood in his driveway, a portable basketball hoop, and, in one case, having a trash bag sitting out next to his trash can for garbage pick-up because the can was full. (according to him, there was other petty BS they harassed him about, but I don't remember exactly)

In other words, they wanted kids out of the neighborhood, which is what seems to be the case most of the time, and he gave them a perfect reason to boot him.

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Postby Brad » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:07 am

That's when it would be fun to be rich as heck and just mess with those grumpy bastards all day long!
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Postby S33 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:25 am

Hey, that was the greatest generation ever!

I would NEVER live in an HOA, not even if that was the only way to maintain the integrity of my neighborhood. Instead, I'm looking into 10 or so acres of land in the Loess Hills, that way I have no neighbors, no rules, and I can mow my yard naked while drinking a beer (cue the dueling banjos).

I'm going to be one bitter old man. lol

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Postby Big E » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:55 pm

Going to be?
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Postby bigredmed » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:45 pm

The FCC and Homeland Security were going to pass federal regs allowing HAM radio operators to erect HF antennas anywhere good engineering practices would allow so that the nation would have these radio operators as part of the communication plan.   One of the things that stopped that plan was HOA's blocking antennas on the outside of houses.

If the Feds can't break these for the sake of the general safety of the population, what hope do we have?

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Postby S33 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Big E wrote:Going to be?


I'm not bitter at all, actually very easy going. That doesn't mean I don't find political trolling ridiculously childish, though.

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Postby joeglow » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:18 pm

S33 wrote:Basically, he was trying to seek permission to build a small garden shed for his mowers, yard tools, etc, and after about 16 months and a dozen letters, they never answered him. So he built it. About 2 days after finishing the shed, he finally hears from the HOA and they order him to tear it down or receive a hefty fine.

Not only did he refuse to tear it down, he stopped paying his HOA fees.

So, they foreclosed on him and it cost him...a lot.


I have always questioned this.  My understanding is that it is against fire code to store many of these things in your house/garage.  Assuming that is true, where are you supposed to put it?  I would just leave my mowers, gas cans, etc. out in the driveway and see what they said.  Their answer would probably be that you are required to pay someone to mow your lawn (most likely their piece of |expletive| son who gets paid double the going rate from the HOA dues).

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Postby almighty_tuna » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:23 pm

bigredmed wrote:The FCC and Homeland Security were going to pass federal regs allowing HAM radio operators to erect HF antennas anywhere good engineering practices would allow so that the nation would have these radio operators as part of the communication plan.   One of the things that stopped that plan was HOA's blocking antennas on the outside of houses.

If the Feds can't break these for the sake of the general safety of the population, what hope do we have?


This is still the case. Hams are allowed to put antennas/towers/etc on their property as long as they employ those good engineering practices. The issue is that with an HOA you are voluntarily signing a contraft not to; that's where the snafu comes in.  I moved into a non-HOA neighborhood for this very reason. I didn't want to put up with any BS because of my ham antennas.

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Postby S33 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:57 am

joeglow wrote: (most likely their piece of |expletive| son who gets paid double the going rate from the HOA dues).


Exactly. In his HOA, the same "recommended" mowing company was a random guy who also happened to be the one who repaints the the trim on all the houses in the neighborhood every 5 years. (which is actually a good deal because it was included in the dues you pay)

almighty_tuna wrote: I moved into a non-HOA neighborhood for this very reason. I didn't want to put up with any BS because of my ham antennas.


Lol, I have to ask, what do you do with all these antennas?

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Postby almighty_tuna » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:08 pm

S33 wrote:Lol, I have to ask, what do you do with all these antennas?


Right now I don't have anything permanently mounted that you could see from the street so it's not like I'm hosting an antenna farm! They're just wire antennas that I use for DX, mostly on 28, 14 and 7mhz. Every so often I'll get the high gain, directional VHF and UHF antennas out to bounce signal off satellites or the space station.

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Postby S33 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:42 am

There's an old man just down the road from my old house and he has antennas blanketing his roof, and even a vertical structure about 50 feet in the air with some antennas on it, as well. You think he's having conversations with aliens?

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Postby almighty_tuna » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:46 am

If he's like most of the people I hear, he's got a very expensive way to complain to his friends about his health.

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Postby bbinks » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:49 am

HOA's are a joke.  Covenants are not enforced in my neighborhood.   Campers, boats, RVs stored on the property, advertisement s in yards......

But if you are late sending in your annual dues, you get a nasty letter in the mail.

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Postby bigredmed » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:14 pm

bbinks wrote:HOA's are a joke.  Covenants are not enforced in my neighborhood.   Campers, boats, RVs stored on the property, advertisement s in yards......

But if you are late sending in your annual dues, you get a nasty letter in the mail.


That was what brought down the HOA in question.   They were happy to go after the plaintiff, but not any of their other neighbors.   The Judge in this case drop kicked their covenants into the chipper shreader.


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