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Uffda
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Postby Uffda » Mon May 20, 2013 10:39 pm

S33 wrote:Joe's givin' me a no-homo boner two times in a week. Linkin, he's right. If they're underpaid, school systems would need to work harder to fill the positions.


Actually some school districts are. The Sioux Falls School districts is going to pay more to experienced teachers who want to come work for them, because they see a need for experienced teachers in the classroom.

When people get talking about teacher pay and compare it to doctors and lawyers, I think about a story I read a few years ago about an Iowa lawyer who said he was no longer going to take court appointed cases as they only paid $95/hr and his regular hour pay was close to twice that. Now most don't complain when the lawyer gives them the bill where they charged you for every little contact but they sure complain when a teacher gets a 3-5% raise.

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Postby Greg S » Wed May 22, 2013 10:49 am

Uffda wrote:
Greg S wrote:After the pension spiking by the fireman and their union's support of the mayor's that negotiated the deals that allowed it, I am watching who contributes to whom now.

Greg


I wish I had their type of retirement plan. :D

bigredmed wrote:
To wit the $13M we spent on hiring an outside law firm when we could have spent $3M for in house counsel and retainers for a couple of seldom used specialist law firms.


And how was this influenced by the union?  Personally I feel you and lots of others give too much credit to the Teacher's association.


Don't we all.  Teacher's don't do too bad on retirement plans though.  Many will retire from one district then with enough time work in another long enough to qualify for a 2nd one.

Greg

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Uffda
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Postby Uffda » Wed May 22, 2013 10:56 am

Greg S wrote:And how was this influenced by the union?  Personally I feel you and lots of others give too much credit to the Teacher's association.


Don't we all.  Teacher's don't do too bad on retirement plans though.  Many will retire from one district then with enough time work in another long enough to qualify for a 2nd one.

Greg[/quote]

Although many can I am not sure how many actually do. I have met some but I have a lot of friends, that I started teaching with back in the late 70s, take their early retirement (Rule of 85 - your age plus how many years you have taught) and not looking to teach any more. They have seen too many changes and not a lot of positives. Some have shifted occupations some enjoying retirement and I have even met a couple here in town who sub when they want - and when they do that they don't have to worry about plans grading etc.

As for me, I switched states and my retirement package didn't transfer over, so I have 9 years to go at that point I will have approx 41 yrs in.

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Garrett
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Postby Garrett » Wed May 22, 2013 7:30 pm

Well... let's take some real world examples.

Let's look at Finland. Lovely country, Finland is. Interestingly enough, Finland has the best schools in the entire world. Why? Because of their teachers. In Finland, teachers are regarded socially as the same level as doctors and lawyers, and they have the pay to match it. Now, the process of becoming a teacher in Finland also happens to be much more difficult that it is in the United States, however, this investment in the Finnish education has created a system and a society which really just kicks |expletive|. Blaming a bad education system on any one factor is certainly not the way to do it, nor will it fix anything if all that is done is finger pointing.
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joeglow
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Postby joeglow » Thu May 23, 2013 10:05 am

Axel wrote:Well... let's take some real world examples.

Let's look at Finland. Lovely country, Finland is. Interestingly enough, Finland has the best schools in the entire world. Why? Because of their teachers. In Finland, teachers are regarded socially as the same level as doctors and lawyers, and they have the pay to match it. Now, the process of becoming a teacher in Finland also happens to be much more difficult that it is in the United States, however, this investment in the Finnish education has created a system and a society which really just kicks |expletive|. Blaming a bad education system on any one factor is certainly not the way to do it, nor will it fix anything if all that is done is finger pointing.


Don't diminish the impact of lazy as sh*t parenting and the apathy it creates.  When my brother-in-law is bullied because he is "acting white" by studying, there are much deeper societal issues at play.

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jessep28
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Postby jessep28 » Thu May 23, 2013 5:50 pm

Wut?
Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum

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Uffda
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Postby Uffda » Thu May 23, 2013 8:07 pm

jessep28 wrote:Wut?


it is called 'my previous arguments weren't good so i have to think of something to say' comeback   :lol:

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Garrett
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Postby Garrett » Mon May 27, 2013 10:12 am

joeglow wrote:
Axel wrote:Well... let's take some real world examples.

Let's look at Finland. Lovely country, Finland is. Interestingly enough, Finland has the best schools in the entire world. Why? Because of their teachers. In Finland, teachers are regarded socially as the same level as doctors and lawyers, and they have the pay to match it. Now, the process of becoming a teacher in Finland also happens to be much more difficult that it is in the United States, however, this investment in the Finnish education has created a system and a society which really just kicks |expletive|. Blaming a bad education system on any one factor is certainly not the way to do it, nor will it fix anything if all that is done is finger pointing.


Don't diminish the impact of lazy as sh*t parenting and the apathy it creates.  When my brother-in-law is bullied because he is "acting white" by studying, there are much deeper societal issues at play.


Nope. Believe or not, parents don't have a lot of influence once kids become teenagers. That is the point where a combination of genetics and peer groups take a much bigger role. True, parents can be a big influence during the formative years, but, after a point, it is psychologically proven that those other two factors become the driving force.
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bigredmed
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Postby bigredmed » Mon May 27, 2013 1:32 pm

Axel wrote:
joeglow wrote:
Axel wrote:Well... let's take some real world examples.

Let's look at Finland. Lovely country, Finland is. Interestingly enough, Finland has the best schools in the entire world. Why? Because of their teachers. In Finland, teachers are regarded socially as the same level as doctors and lawyers, and they have the pay to match it. Now, the process of becoming a teacher in Finland also happens to be much more difficult that it is in the United States, however, this investment in the Finnish education has created a system and a society which really just kicks |expletive|. Blaming a bad education system on any one factor is certainly not the way to do it, nor will it fix anything if all that is done is finger pointing.


Don't diminish the impact of lazy as sh*t parenting and the apathy it creates.  When my brother-in-law is bullied because he is "acting white" by studying, there are much deeper societal issues at play.


Nope. Believe or not, parents don't have a lot of influence once kids become teenagers. That is the point where a combination of genetics and peer groups take a much bigger role. True, parents can be a big influence during the formative years, but, after a point, it is psychologically proven that those other two factors become the driving force.


Sorry, but "Nope" is not valid here.   Nothing you said excludes the impact of the earlier comments.   While both are true.  They are likely co-factors in a large mulitplex problem in which both are merely parts of a psycho-social matrix that results in the phenotype we see as our modern public schools.

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RNcyanide
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Postby RNcyanide » Mon May 27, 2013 2:01 pm

Waiting for Godwin's Law to come into play here... It shouldn't be too much longer.
When fortune smiles on something as violent and ugly as revenge, it seems proof like no other that not only does God exist, you're doing his will.

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Uffda
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Postby Uffda » Mon May 27, 2013 5:28 pm

This teacher is pretty spot on with what she sees happening in education. It might not all be happening in OPS MPS LaVista etc. but the undercurrent is there

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb ... Gay+Voices


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