The Stothert Administration

[BRoss]

Seem to recall a WSJ story about other cities getting tough building guidelines that made construction prohibitive and this pushing people out.  Sam's Club is one of the touchiest, but others followed.

Could be that she is trying to keep that train from pulling out of town.

Well IMO, screw the cheap-|expletive| retailers who do nothing but suck the life out of cities. Based on what republicans believe in, I'm surprised they would support bringing in a company that relies on welfare to supplement their unsustainable wages. I personally think they are the biggest mooches of all.

This coming from someone who thinks both parties freakin suck and are full of idiots that don't give one sh1t about us.

[Linkin5]

OMG, is the Mayor actually grieving over losing a Sam's Club?  Seriously?  How many do we already have in the metro?  We certainly don't need one on every corner....

She's trying to keep the sales tax inside city limits, instead of Sams building at 180th and Maple (or wherever). It's a smart move.

Have you ever been to L street marketplace?  There is a reason these design standard are in place.

If you honestly think losing a Sam's club or any shitty poor planned box store is more important than keeping proper standards so that clusterf*ck strip malls don't move in, then I really don't have much more to say.

[RNcyanide]

Seem to recall a WSJ story about other cities getting tough building guidelines that made construction prohibitive and this pushing people out.  Sam's Club is one of the touchiest, but others followed.

Could be that she is trying to keep that train from pulling out of town.

Well IMO, screw the cheap-|expletive| retailers who do nothing but suck the life out of cities. Based on what republicans believe in, I'm surprised they would support bringing in a company that relies on welfare to supplement their unsustainable wages. I personally think they are the biggest mooches of all.

This coming from someone who thinks both parties freakin suck and are full of idiots that don't give one sh1t about us.

Both political wings are part of the same political vulture.

[S33]

OMG, is the Mayor actually grieving over losing a Sam's Club?  Seriously?  How many do we already have in the metro?  We certainly don't need one on every corner....

She's trying to keep the sales tax inside city limits, instead of Sams building at 180th and Maple (or wherever). It's a smart move.

Have you ever been to L street marketplace?  There is a reason these design standard are in place.

If you honestly think losing a Sam's club or any |expletive| poor planned box store is more important than keeping proper standards so that clusterf*ck strip malls don't move in, then I really don't have much more to say.

As if it's that simple. All I am saying is that she (in her own words) is trying to find the balance between maintaining some level of design standards from being business-prohibitive. What is wrong with that?

And Jacob, unfortunately it is the big-box stores buying the fire trucks, paving the roads, and putting police on the streets. Yes, on some level they are mooches, but they can get away with it simply because of the amount of sales tax revenue they create. In the aggregate, they fund the city.

Sorry, but you will never get your 12-story Sams club with 50 market-rate apartment units and underground parking. Just the way it is...

Anyway, let's not have this argument. This was the |expletive| we argued about when streets was here all Westboro Baptist Church trolling us.

[bigredmed]

OMG, is the Mayor actually grieving over losing a Sam's Club?  Seriously?  How many do we already have in the metro?  We certainly don't need one on every corner....

She's trying to keep the sales tax inside city limits, instead of Sams building at 180th and Maple (or wherever). It's a smart move.

Have you ever been to L street marketplace?  There is a reason these design standard are in place.

If you honestly think losing a Sam's club or any |expletive| poor planned box store is more important than keeping proper standards so that clusterf*ck strip malls don't move in, then I really don't have much more to say.

Wow, are the colors pretty in your world?

We live in a world where there is a thing called money.  When you have a lot of it, life is better.  When a city has a lot of it, they can do more stuff for the people who live there.

Cities get money from taxes.  Taxes that are collected inside their city limits.

Land exists outside the city that is not in their limits, and stores there don't have to pay taxes.

Because we want the stores to like being inside the city limits enough to stay and pay, we want to make sure that we have zoning and planning regs that are functional and not too onerous so we can see new stores open in Omaha and not LaVista.

We don't need to have a total lack of standards, but we tried the neo-stalinist mode in the 70's with health care capital purchases (anything over a certain $ amount had to be approved by the state, even X-ray machines) and it added layers of bureaucracy, but did it really help?  

All Stothert said was that she wanted to be sure that the standards were workable.  Seems sensible to me.

[guitarguy]

This was the |expletive| we argued about when streets was here all Westboro Baptist Church trolling us.

I laughed... Hard... Haha

[MadMartin8]

12-story Sams club with 50 market-rate apartment units and underground parking. Just the way it is...

BUT WHAT ABOUT BIKE RACKS?!! PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY WALKWAYS?!!! And it's only 12 stories?!!!! I wanted at least 15. Those are simply a must... geeze, some urban planner YOU are.

[jessep28]

[Linkin5]

OMG, is the Mayor actually grieving over losing a Sam's Club?  Seriously?  How many do we already have in the metro?  We certainly don't need one on every corner....

She's trying to keep the sales tax inside city limits, instead of Sams building at 180th and Maple (or wherever). It's a smart move.

Have you ever been to L street marketplace?  There is a reason these design standard are in place.

If you honestly think losing a Sam's club or any |expletive| poor planned box store is more important than keeping proper standards so that clusterf*ck strip malls don't move in, then I really don't have much more to say.

Wow, are the colors pretty in your world?

We live in a world where there is a thing called money.  When you have a lot of it, life is better.  When a city has a lot of it, they can do more stuff for the people who live there.

Cities get money from taxes.  Taxes that are collected inside their city limits.

Land exists outside the city that is not in their limits, and stores there don't have to pay taxes.

Because we want the stores to like being inside the city limits enough to stay and pay, we want to make sure that we have zoning and planning regs that are functional and not too onerous so we can see new stores open in Omaha and not LaVista.

We don't need to have a total lack of standards, but we tried the neo-stalinist mode in the 70's with health care capital purchases (anything over a certain $ amount had to be approved by the state, even X-ray machines) and it added layers of bureaucracy, but did it really help?  

All Stothert said was that she wanted to be sure that the standards were workable.  Seems sensible to me.

Please provide me some facts on how much money Omaha by design has lost for this city, that would be great.

I have no beef with Stothert, I actually agree with her fighting the corrupt Omaha fire union, those guys are idiots.  But in this case she is dead wrong.

[iamjacobm]

So Wal-Mart can pull off a new 200K sq foot building in North Omaha with these "tough" design standards, but Sam's can't get a project off in West O because of the same "tough" standards?  Whatever.

And there is something to be said about sales tax sure, I want Sam's Club to build on West Maple that would be fantastic, but there is something to be said about property value too.  We start lowering the standards of development than we should expect a lower property tax income and a less attractive city that less people will want to live in.

[thenewguy]

The fact that they havent built at that location wasnt as much about design standards or financing as it was to saturate the market because of the potential for additional costcos in omaha/lincoln/council bluffs.  and im willing to bet that now there isnt as strong a need to over saturate.  when they built the new lincoln sams, they spent millions more than originally planned on the property and structure just to ensure costco didnt go in (it is no secret that the two companies got into a bidding war). costco had also looked at land near the manawa power centre/jc penneys within the last few years, and it brought the real estate folks up here on the company jet to see where/what was happening.  as a result, sams and walmart have been planning for additional boxes to stop the growth of their competition as much as possible.  basically i said all that to say all this: sams most likely doesnt NEED to build an additional box yet (and dont want to unnecessarily pay higher amounts for it), because if they really had their hearts set on it, i know they would not think twice about writing the check.

[Linkin5]

The fact that they havent built at that location wasnt as much about design standards or financing as it was to saturate the market because of the potential for additional costcos in omaha/lincoln/council bluffs.  and im willing to bet that now there isnt as strong a need to over saturate.  when they built the new lincoln sams, they spent millions more than originally planned on the property and structure just to ensure costco didnt go in (it is no secret that the two companies got into a bidding war). costco had also looked at land near the manawa power centre/jc penneys within the last few years, and it brought the real estate folks up here on the company jet to see where/what was happening.  as a result, sams and walmart have been planning for additional boxes to stop the growth of their competition as much as possible.  basically i said all that to say all this: sams most likely doesnt NEED to build an additional box yet (and dont want to unnecessarily pay higher amounts for it), because if they really had their hearts set on it, i know they would not think twice about writing the check.

.......what?

[Brad]

Please provide me some facts on how much money Omaha by design has lost for this city, that would be great.

Two Things...

1.  Not positive, but I would say not much was lost...  People still built thing but they just complained about it a lot.  Most developers know people and the were able to make a lot of noise but I doubt it changed a lot

More importantly...

2.  The other problem is that the new storm water laws kicked in, around the same time OBD kicked in.  I would venture to guess that the thousands and thousands these people are spending on all the extra storm sewer infrastructure and design fees, are being tied to OBD, but it is wrong to do that.  The EPA mandated the storm runoff laws and the city is enforcing them, but they are not connected to OBD.

[S33]

So Wal-Mart can pull off a new 200K sq foot building in North Omaha with these "tough" design standards, but Sam's can't get a project off in West O because of the same "tough" standards?  Whatever.

And there is something to be said about sales tax sure, I want Sam's Club to build on West Maple that would be fantastic, but there is something to be said about property value too.  We start lowering the standards of development than we should expect a lower property tax income and a less attractive city that less people will want to live in.

"pull off"? North Omaha pretty much begged for that store.

[Linkin5]

So Wal-Mart can pull off a new 200K sq foot building in North Omaha with these "tough" design standards, but Sam's can't get a project off in West O because of the same "tough" standards?  Whatever.

And there is something to be said about sales tax sure, I want Sam's Club to build on West Maple that would be fantastic, but there is something to be said about property value too.  We start lowering the standards of development than we should expect a lower property tax income and a less attractive city that less people will want to live in.

"pull off"? North Omaha pretty much begged for that store.

NFM, S33 you are a moron.  Your act is getting old.

[guitarguy]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

[S33]

So Wal-Mart can pull off a new 200K sq foot building in North Omaha with these "tough" design standards, but Sam's can't get a project off in West O because of the same "tough" standards?  Whatever.

And there is something to be said about sales tax sure, I want Sam's Club to build on West Maple that would be fantastic, but there is something to be said about property value too.  We start lowering the standards of development than we should expect a lower property tax income and a less attractive city that less people will want to live in.

"pull off"? North Omaha pretty much begged for that store.

NFM, S33 you are a moron.  Your act is getting old.

lol! Cool off, Sally.

See, I knew someone would get all butthurt and start name-calling. No chance for civility around here, I guess.

[S33]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

Linkin's a pretty sensitive fella. You may not have been around the time when Linkin basically reenacted the scene from the movie "Waiting", where the newbie table waiter guy attended the after-work party and went on an extended, profanity-filled tirade, and basically insulted everyone in the room. Yeah, Linkin had his own edition of that, and accused me of living in my mom's basement.

It was cute.

[RNcyanide]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

Linkin's a pretty sensitive fella. You may not have been around the time when Linkin basically reenacted the scene from the movie "Waiting", where the newbie table waiter guy attended the after-work party and weren't on an extended, profanity-filled tirade, and basically insulted everyone in the room. Yeah, Linkin had his own edition of that, and accused me of living in my mom's basement.

It was cute.

It's all fun and games until someone starts fighting on the internets...

[S33]

The internets are no joke.

[jessep28]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

Linkin's a pretty sensitive fella. You may not have been around the time when Linkin basically reenacted the scene from the movie "Waiting", where the newbie table waiter guy attended the after-work party and went on an extended, profanity-filled tirade, and basically insulted everyone in the room. Yeah, Linkin had his own edition of that, and accused me of living in my mom's basement.

It was cute.

Waiting is a very underrated movie.

[MadMartin8]

We argue over some of the most stupid |expletive| here at Eomahaforums.

[RNcyanide]

Agreed.

[thenewguy]

The fact that they havent built at that location wasnt as much about design standards or financing as it was to saturate the market because of the potential for additional costcos in omaha/lincoln/council bluffs.  and im willing to bet that now there isnt as strong a need to over saturate.  when they built the new lincoln sams, they spent millions more than originally planned on the property and structure just to ensure costco didnt go in (it is no secret that the two companies got into a bidding war). costco had also looked at land near the manawa power centre/jc penneys within the last few years, and it brought the real estate folks up here on the company jet to see where/what was happening.  as a result, sams and walmart have been planning for additional boxes to stop the growth of their competition as much as possible.  basically i said all that to say all this: sams most likely doesnt NEED to build an additional box yet (and dont want to unnecessarily pay higher amounts for it), because if they really had their hearts set on it, i know they would not think twice about writing the check.

.......what?

yeah that didnt come out the best.  long story short is that i doubt the fact that a new sams wasnt built there had more to do with the company not wanting to build yet rather than tough design standards that some administration supported. i was using the competition/market saturation points of view to support the fact that if sams REALLY wanted to build there, they would be far less concerned with the cost associated with redesign if it meant driving down competition.

[Linkin5]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

Linkin's a pretty sensitive fella. You may not have been around the time when Linkin basically reenacted the scene from the movie "Waiting", where the newbie table waiter guy attended the after-work party and went on an extended, profanity-filled tirade, and basically insulted everyone in the room. Yeah, Linkin had his own edition of that, and accused me of living in my mom's basement.

It was cute.

I'm sensitive?  First time I've heard that.  

You stated Stothert was right about this without using any real examples or facts.  I would love for you to provide some examples how Omaha by design has failed this city besides this claim of losing a Sam's Club (which by the way nobody gives a |expletive| about).

[nebugeater]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

Linkin's a pretty sensitive fella. You may not have been around the time when Linkin basically reenacted the scene from the movie "Waiting", where the newbie table waiter guy attended the after-work party and went on an extended, profanity-filled tirade, and basically insulted everyone in the room. Yeah, Linkin had his own edition of that, and accused me of living in my mom's basement.

It was cute.

I'm sensitive?  First time I've heard that.  

You stated Stothert was right about this without using any real examples or facts.  I would love for you to provide some examples how Omaha by design has failed this city besides this claim of losing a Sam's Club (which by the way nobody gives a |expletive| about).

Could you please provide some facts or examples that back up this statement.

[Linkin5]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

Linkin's a pretty sensitive fella. You may not have been around the time when Linkin basically reenacted the scene from the movie "Waiting", where the newbie table waiter guy attended the after-work party and went on an extended, profanity-filled tirade, and basically insulted everyone in the room. Yeah, Linkin had his own edition of that, and accused me of living in my mom's basement.

It was cute.

I'm sensitive?  First time I've heard that.  

You stated Stothert was right about this without using any real examples or facts.  I would love for you to provide some examples how Omaha by design has failed this city besides this claim of losing a Sam's Club (which by the way nobody gives a |expletive| about).

Could you please provide some facts or examples that back up this statement.

Ha, ok some people may give a |expletive| about a |expletive| shitty SAMs club.

[S33]

God I thought I would see people fighting over the placement of a Sams Club. First time in history? Could be!  

Linkin's a pretty sensitive fella. You may not have been around the time when Linkin basically reenacted the scene from the movie "Waiting", where the newbie table waiter guy attended the after-work party and went on an extended, profanity-filled tirade, and basically insulted everyone in the room. Yeah, Linkin had his own edition of that, and accused me of living in my mom's basement.

It was cute.

I'm sensitive?  First time I've heard that.  

You stated Stothert was right about this without using any real examples or facts.  I would love for you to provide some examples how Omaha by design has failed this city besides this claim of losing a Sam's Club (which by the way nobody gives a |expletive| about).

You want me to provides facts and analysis on how creating a reasonable, but friendly, business environment inside of a city, is a "smart" decision?

I suppose I can, and I will also include facts and analysis on how tying your shoes, prevents you from falling down.

EDIT: And nobody, including Stothert, has said "Omaha by Design has failed this city". You made that up, and only you said it.

[GetUrban]

You don't believe the mayor of a city should have an interest in whether or not current design standards are affecting the business climate of their city? By that logic, they should preside over nothing, as everything can change as mayors change.

I know you all love to hate Stothert and all, but, in this instance, she's correct.

I didn't say the mayor should not have an interest in design standards, everybody should. I just meant the mayor, whomever that may be..... Stothert included, should not unilaterally have the power to change the standards to favor developers over the interests of neighbors and citizens of Omaha. A process now exists to set the standards. Until the last few years, developers did not have to follow any design standards because there weren't any, other than zoning and building codes.  As today's OWH editorial says, a balance needs to be struck between developers needs to make a profit, and the needs of the citizens to live in a place worth living in.

There was no hate in my post.

[almighty_tuna]

These latest announcements from Stothert (ped bridge, civic, etc) makes me feel like we just took two steps back. :-/  Hurray for bike lane to Turner Park, but....

[jessep28]

Omaha Mayor Jean Stothert pardons Sal the pig

[S33]

I admit, I'm even starting to question this lady

[MadMartin8]

She went all Herp Derp with this save money at all costs (hah) thing.

[Bosco55David]

She went all Herp Derp with this save money at all costs (hah) thing.

What did she do now? I haven't been keeping up.

[Brad]

What did she do now? I haven't been keeping up.

1.  Pardoned a Pig for Bacon Fest (What the White House does every year with a turkey for thanksgiving).  Just a publicity stunt for the Salvation Army so they can raise more money at Bacon Fest this weekend.
2.  Came up with long term goals.  One of them is going to keep the civic open longer, and that has some people bent out of shape.  I am not positive, but I would guess its a short term plan because there is still demand for the music hall.

[RNcyanide]

What did she do now? I haven't been keeping up.

1.  Pardoned a Pig for Bacon Fest (What the White House does every year with a turkey for thanksgiving).  Just a publicity stunt for the Salvation Army so they can raise more money at Bacon Fest this weekend.
2.  Came up with long term goals.  One of them is going to keep the civic open longer, and that has some people bent out of shape.  I am not positive, but I would guess its a short term plan because there is still demand for the music hall.

Is this a money saving proposal? I can't remember who foots the bill for demolition.

[Brad]

Is this a money saving proposal? I can't remember who foots the bill for demolition.

There were never any plans to demolish the civic, the plan was to close it.  Everyone assumes it will be demolished eventually, but they were trying to market it to developers for re-development.

[jessep28]

They could sell it to the Wall Street Tower people for $1.

[guitarguy]

Yes sell it to the WallStreet tower people...pretty soon they'll own downtown for 15 bucks haha

[MadMartin8]

They could sell it to the Wall Street Tower people for $1.

I still think Eomahaforums should try and get a $1 deal as well. We could lead the city on for years saying we're building a HQ for a "Urban Development Think Tank"