US Senate GOP Primary

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US Senate GOP Primary

Postby ad2330 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:28 pm

Anybody following this race?

Both Sasse and Osborn are looking more and more like DC boys who would have a lot of back scratching to do should the get to DC. Not to mention they're both awfully young and most likely in it for a career. Dinsdale seems like a 'proof is in the pudding' kind of guy who has raised the major majority of his funds from NE.

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:48 pm

The whole thing is a good ole' boy sham. Doesn't matter who you vote for, all the candidates will get eaten alive in Washington.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby GetUrban » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:00 pm

They're all running on exactly the same things the GOP has already tried to do in Washington and failed miserably multiple times, such as repealing the ACA, instead of coming up with a better alternative or tweaks. It gets old.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby RNcyanide » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:44 pm

I'm not particularly hopeful for any of them. I'm not impressed in gubernatorial candidates either. Honestly we seem to produce some awfully mediocre politicians.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Coyote » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:38 pm

RNcyanide wrote:Honestly we seem to produce some awfully mediocre politicians.

As compared to... :shrug:
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:56 pm

So does anyone else here get tired of having your state and federal ballets full of the type of people whom you would never associate with on a regular basis in your personal lives? To better clarify, the types of individuals who have been a product of incredible privilege or success, and most likely either do not want to, or have no way of relating to the common citizen?

I guess my point is that you all can vote for whomever you want, but you will always |expletive| about the quality of candidates because change no longer happens at the voting booth, and that's how they like it.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby GetUrban » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:44 pm

There seems to be a complete disconnect between what they think voters want to hear and what they actually want from their representatives, senators, or governor. I don't see how any candidate could want an endorsement from Sara Palin. Seriously? (I'm not a tea party guy though) Personally, such endorsements carry zero weight in my decision whom to vote for anyway.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:12 pm

I guess the most alarming thing to me, is that these candidates, almost all being wealthy to super wealthy, hire these campaign managers and pay them tens of thousands of dollars to head their campaigns, and it couldn't be more apparent that each and every campaign is fighting to have the appearance of who can be MOST conservative.

That, in itself, is not alarming, the alarming part is that people actually want that, and the campaign managers know that. Even in liberal campaigns, the same holds true. America has gone nuts.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Professor Woland » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:17 pm

S33 wrote:I guess the most alarming thing to me, is that these candidates, almost all being wealthy to super wealthy, hire these campaign managers and pay them tens of thousands of dollars to head their campaigns, and it couldn't be more apparent that each and every campaign is fighting to have the appearance of who can be MOST conservative.

That, in itself, is not alarming, the alarming part is that people actually want that, and the campaign managers know that. Even in liberal campaigns, the same holds true. America has gone nuts.


What's ridiculous about that is that I don't think any of them could put together a coherent definition of "conservative." As for the quality of the candidates, the more power the state has, the more attractive elected office becomes for sociopaths and the less attractive it is for anyone with a shred of human decency.

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:24 pm

And have any of you been listening to these insane radio ads? First, they started off somewhat mild, established their stances, but now they've evolved into some bizarre concoction of attacks on one another and hatred toward Mexicans, and they actually try to outdo each other. They might as well come out and say "I'm going to personally toss each and every illegal Mexican in Nebraska over the Rio Grande with my bear hands, because I'm a true conservative"!

But those of us with half a brain, know darn well most of these candidates probably do or have employed illegals at some point in their professional careers, or have endorsed or owned corporations that have. Heck, I'd be willing to bet Mr. Dinsdale himself probably had them detailing his cars. Of course this is all speculation, but they've got to know we know they're full of |expletive|.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:34 pm

Professor Woland wrote:
What's ridiculous about that is that I don't think any of them could put together a coherent definition of "conservative."  As for the quality of the candidates, the more power the state has, the more attractive elected office becomes for sociopaths and the less attractive it is for anyone with a shred of human decency.

Oh, you mean like Peter Pirsch? The guy who, because of term limits, was forced out of the Nebraska legislature, then as a typical power hungry politician would have it, he decided to run for state auditor. Of course, that didn't satisfy his insatiable appetite for power, he got word that Jon Bruning would be leaving office of State Attorney General, and Boy, that sounded even better. Then he gets to be the second most powerful man in the state (in some respects, the most powerful).

If any of you ask around enough, you will certainly find students whom he lectured criminal justice (I believe he was once a prosecutor), and ask those students what they think of Mr. Pirsch.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby bigredmed » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:16 pm

There are a lot of problems with the system.

The big donkey in the room is the lack of credibility in the state's democratic party. They can't get the national party to give two Al Roker's pants about the entire middle of the country, much less Nebraska, and they constantly try to tell you that they will be conservative and for the people. They fail. Because they have failed so often and so spectacularly, no one takes them seriously. If they did, do you think we would still have Lee Terry? He has run 8 times for reelection. Except for last time, when they found a credible guy, how many credible people have they ran against him? 4/8? 2/8?

The Senate race in 2012 was a hoot. They had to retread Bob Kerrey. As soon as he found himself running against Deb Fischer, all he could do was try to dredge up a land dispute.

Till the Dems in the state get their collective Al Roker's pants together, the GOP will continue to wallow in Al Roker's pants because elephants like to wallow. We will get better candidates when we demand them. We can't bounce Terry because he usually runs against a tool. Jim Esch ran without a job history. No viable alternatives, we get what we got.

Don't get me started on Libertarians.

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby guitarguy » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:31 pm

Ya know.. its crazy hearing how we want the 'best' politicians when as far as I'm concerned.. if they go to Washington and don't abuse their power or embarrass the state I'm good. Now I am more of a Conservative persuation and it sounds like I'm in the minority here.. but after living in the Liberal heck hole known as NYC its crazy hearing how people around here actually want that? I hate getting into political discussions online where the anonomity allows people to act like douches but its interesting hearing everyones opinion here. I have been amused myself by how the Conservatives are trying to out Conservative each other haha
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Coyote » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:45 pm

Growing up my political hero was John Cavanaugh, a grad from Prep and CU Law..., but after two terms in DC he never ran again, because DC was DC...

In '82 I had to lobby his successor, Hal Daub.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby HR Paperstacks » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:01 pm

What I'm looking for is someone who is more in the middle and is willing to compromise so we can actually have a functioning government once again instead of this dysfunctional mess. But all these candidates are far right hacks who will just stick with the status-quo of playing stupid political games that screw the people for no good reason other than to try to make the other side look bad (e.g. Ted Cruz with the shutdown mess). I think both sides can bring valuable things to the table. There's a reason America isn't #1 in most categories anymore and it is mainly pathetic hyper-partisanship. Not only has it divided our government, but it has also divided the whole country to the point where people can no longer have an adult conversation with people they don't agree with.

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:50 pm

guitarguy wrote: Now I am more of a Conservative persuation and it sounds like I'm in the minority here.. but after living in the Liberal heck hole known as NYC its crazy hearing how people around here actually want that? I hate getting into political discussions online where the anonomity allows people to act like douches but its interesting hearing everyones opinion here.

I once identified as conservative, probably for no other reason than my geographical region and the people around me. It wasn't until about 7 years ago, or so, that I started reading and learning about the American economic, political, and to a lesser degree, judicial system. And it is very odd how the more and more I read, it transgressed into totally disengaging me from the voting system, or from identifying with any political party or movement.

I am sure the vast majority of Americans are clueless as to the level of injustice in our country, in all systems, cloaked under a big fat layer of American exceptionalism. I don't want to sound like "that guy," but Americans sold their country to capitalism. We were a republic that created a magnificent constitution and framework of laws designed to defend all people equally, and we turned into a democracy where the majority rule. But we aren't talking about people as the majority, in this case, the majority is money, and money rules this country. (just look at your voting ballots)
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:59 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote: There's a reason America isn't #1 in most categories anymore and it is mainly pathetic hyper-partisanship. Not only has it divided our government, but it has also divided the whole country to the point where people can no longer have an adult conversation with people they don't agree with.
Neil Degrasse Tyson made an awesome speech in front of the NTSB a short time ago (in part) alluding to why America is falling behind. If I can find it, I'll post it.

Now if you put Neil up for president, I'm voting. But he's a good guy with an agenda to help all Amercians, he cares, so there's no place for him in Washington.

EDIT: He was speaking in front of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation committee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmKlA_UnX8c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby guitarguy » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:23 pm

S33 wrote:
guitarguy wrote: Now I am more of a Conservative persuation and it sounds like I'm in the minority here.. but after living in the Liberal heck hole known as NYC its crazy hearing how people around here actually want that? I hate getting into political discussions online where the anonomity allows people to act like douches but its interesting hearing everyones opinion here.

I once identified as conservative, probably for no other reason than my geographical region and the people around me. It wasn't until about 7 years ago, or so, that I started reading and learning about the American economic, political, and to a lesser degree, judicial system. And it is very odd how the more and more I read, it transgressed into totally disengaging me from the voting system, or from identifying with any political party or movement.

I am sure the vast majority of Americans are clueless as to the level of injustice in our country, in all systems, cloaked under a big fat layer of American exceptionalism. I don't want to sound like "that guy," but Americans sold their country to capitalism. We were a republic that created a magnificent constitution and framework of laws designed to defend all people equally, and we turned into a democracy where the majority rule. But we aren't talking about people as the majority, in this case, the majority is money, and money rules this country. (just look at your voting ballots)


I too am less enthused about voting and am well aware of just how corrupt our government really is. But I do realize that in a perfect world the idea of small and limited government is ideal and would solve a lot of the problems in our country ( national debt, over regulation, corruption at every level ).. but hoping that our government does anything but grow more out of control every day is a little idiotic at this point with how far our country is from being able to solve our problems by merely voting.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Erik » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:25 pm

S33 wrote:
guitarguy wrote: Now I am more of a Conservative persuation and it sounds like I'm in the minority here.. but after living in the Liberal heck hole known as NYC its crazy hearing how people around here actually want that? I hate getting into political discussions online where the anonomity allows people to act like douches but its interesting hearing everyones opinion here.

I once identified as conservative, probably for no other reason than my geographical region and the people around me. It wasn't until about 7 years ago, or so, that I started reading and learning about the American economic, political, and to a lesser degree, judicial system. And it is very odd how the more and more I read, it transgressed into totally disengaging me from the voting system, or from identifying with any political party or movement.

I am sure the vast majority of Americans are clueless as to the level of injustice in our country, in all systems, cloaked under a big fat layer of American exceptionalism. I don't want to sound like "that guy," but Americans sold their country to capitalism. We were a republic that created a magnificent constitution and framework of laws designed to defend all people equally, and we turned into a democracy where the majority rule. But we aren't talking about people as the majority, in this case, the majority is money, and money rules this country. (just look at your voting ballots)


|expletive|. I am with you a 100% here. All people should be equal, majority was not meant to rule. Gays should marry because of the establishment clause but nobody should be forced to recognize them outside of the government and judicial system (which would enforce insurers and hospitals to comply etc).. That is just one of many things that should be obvious. But I choose that subject given how political and an example of majority rule.

It seems that every group starts out good but ends up being taken over (tea party by GOP) or bought (paul of the libertarians) or driven by very influential forces (dems and gops).

Frankly, there aren't a lot that I trust right now. Surprisingly, Stothert has proven me wrong so far. I am really starting to gravitate towards her.

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Coyote » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:31 pm

It's too late for me to look this up, but , didn't some New England school just publish its findings that we are no longer a democracy, but an Oligarcy? Party affiliation hasn't been a factor for real public policy for years.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:41 pm

Coyote wrote:It's too late for me to look this up, but , didn't some New England school just publish its findings that we are no longer a democracy, but an Oligarcy? Party affiliation hasn't been a factor for real public policy for years.

If you find it, I'd like to read it.

But it certainly makes sense. You figure a traditional Oligarcy is ruled by super wealthy businessmen, military brass, elite families, etc, and that certainly passes the smell test with what we've got.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Coyote » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:46 pm

You didn't see that? I thought everyone read it, I'll have to look for it then, it probably was in my Atlantic Monthly :roll:
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:51 pm

Erik wrote:
|expletive|.  I am with you a 100% here.  All people should be equal, majority was not meant to rule.  Gays should marry because of the establishment clause but nobody should be forced to recognize them outside of the government and judicial system (which would enforce insurers and hospitals to comply etc).. That is just one of many things that should be obvious. But I choose that subject given how political and an example of majority rule.

Religion, or at least how people interpret the writings. Institutional religion in modern America does a great job segregating and shaming people. I've never understood any anti-gay marriage argument, but it almost reminds me about the time AIDS began to spread across America, and all the misinformation and dehumanization that came along with it. Almost as if people are paranoid they can be turned gay by association(best comparison I've got)
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Coyote » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:52 pm

Came out of Princeton, (almost did a PhD there, good school)

America is an oligarchy, not a democracy or republic, university study finds

“The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,” the study found.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:00 am

Coyote wrote:Came out of Princeton, (almost did a PhD there, good school)

America is an oligarchy, not a democracy or republic, university study finds

What stopped you from Princeton, if you don't mind me asking? Anyway, thanks for the read.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Coyote » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:12 am

S33 wrote:What stopped you from Princeton, if you don't mind me asking?  Anyway, thanks for the read.


While in Grad School I had dinner with the Princeton Prof that wrote the Classic book from the field/author I was interested in. Long /short, I realized I only had three years of κοινή Greek (I had to pull a Jesuit out of retirement at Creighton to teach third year) but this project would have required several more years of linguistic studies before I could even begin to articulate coherent dissertation material.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby bigredmed » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:16 pm

S33 wrote:So does anyone else here get tired of having your state and federal ballets full of the type of people whom you would never associate with on a regular basis in your personal lives? To better clarify, the types of individuals who have been a product of incredible privilege or success, and most likely either do not want to, or have no way of relating to the common citizen?

I guess my point is that you all can vote for whomever you want, but you will always |expletive| about the quality of candidates because change no longer happens at the voting booth, and that's how they like it.


Totally agree with the tiredness of the choices being the a choice between the rich and the politically loony.

But then, it is extremely expensive to run for office even at a local level and most people have real jobs and A, don't have the $20K to get started, and B, don't have the spare time to go to all the rubber chicken lunches and dinners that you need to go to to have a shot. Pretty much excludes regular folks.

The wealthy have the cash to pull it off and the people who think running for the Senate is a more pressing need than getting their drivers license reinstated don't have anything else to do.

The current system has to change for us to have long term viability. One advantage of the old political machines is that they often ran guys who were regular people and once in a while they won and turned out to be guys like Harry Truman.

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby ad2330 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:59 pm

bigredmed wrote:
S33 wrote:So does anyone else here get tired of having your state and federal ballets full of the type of people whom you would never associate with on a regular basis in your personal lives? To better clarify, the types of individuals who have been a product of incredible privilege or success, and most likely either do not want to, or have no way of relating to the common citizen?

I guess my point is that you all can vote for whomever you want, but you will always |expletive| about the quality of candidates because change no longer happens at the voting booth, and that's how they like it.


Totally agree with the tiredness of the choices being the a choice between the rich and the politically loony.

But then, it is extremely expensive to run for office even at a local level and most people have real jobs and A, don't have the $20K to get started, and B, don't have the spare time to go to all the rubber chicken lunches and dinners that you need to go to to have a shot.  Pretty much excludes regular folks.

The wealthy have the cash to pull it off and the people who think running for the Senate is a more pressing need than getting their drivers license reinstated don't have anything else to do.

The current system has to change for us to have long term viability.  One advantage of the old political machines is that they often ran guys who were regular people and once in a while they won and turned out to be guys like Harry Truman.



I agree the entire process has turned into a money game and who can raise/put in the most in order to fund the 'campaign'. Having said that, in this particular race I think it's especially intriguing.

Ben Sasse and Shane Osborn have a SIGNIFICANT amount of their funding from outside Nebraska. Then, you throw in their out-state endorsements in order to try and 'gain credibility' (with Palin/Cruz/Lee/etc. :what: ) and you've got a real DC establishment type campaign.

Now, Dinsdale and McLeay on the other hand have taken the complete opposite route. Both have focused strictly on Nebraska voters and residents, raising I think I saw over 80% of their warchest from Nebraskans. Then, Dinsdale for example has endorsements from Tom Osborne and now most recently, the Omaha World Herald. Yes, he is a 'rich' guy, but does that inherently mean he's in it for the wrong reasons? I mean, couldn't he ride off into the sunset and spend his years on a beach in Barbados? After all, he has run a substantial company over the last 30+ years that happens to be in an extremely regulated industry. Could it be, maybe, that he's just sick and tired of the way things are going and that he wants to actually make a difference?

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Omababe » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:25 am

Totally agree with the tiredness of the choices being the a choice between the rich and the politically loony.


You can't turn on the TV lately without seeing non-stop endless-loops of these clowns all trying to appear to be the farthest of the far-right!

Let's see ... two weeks until the primary ... and when we finally can watch TV again without suffering through all of this drek! :(

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:50 am

ad2330 wrote: Then, Dinsdale for example has endorsements from Tom Osborne and now most recently, the Omaha World Herald.  Yes, he is a 'rich' guy, but does that inherently mean he's in it for the wrong reasons?  I mean, couldn't he ride off into the sunset and spend his years on a beach in Barbados?  After all, he has run a substantial company over the last 30+ years that happens to be in an extremely regulated industry.  Could it be, maybe, that he's just sick and tired of the way things are going and that he wants to actually make a difference?

A lot of rich people could "ride off into the sunset" with all the money in the world, but, often times, it's power they seek.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby ad2330 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:06 pm

S33 wrote:
ad2330 wrote: Then, Dinsdale for example has endorsements from Tom Osborne and now most recently, the Omaha World Herald.  Yes, he is a 'rich' guy, but does that inherently mean he's in it for the wrong reasons?  I mean, couldn't he ride off into the sunset and spend his years on a beach in Barbados?  After all, he has run a substantial company over the last 30+ years that happens to be in an extremely regulated industry.  Could it be, maybe, that he's just sick and tired of the way things are going and that he wants to actually make a difference?

A lot of rich people could "ride off into the sunset" with all the money in the world, but, often times, it's power they seek.


Something tells me you're one of those that's skeptical of anyone and everyone who has been 'successful'...amirite?

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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:09 pm

ad2330 wrote:
S33 wrote:
ad2330 wrote: Then, Dinsdale for example has endorsements from Tom Osborne and now most recently, the Omaha World Herald.  Yes, he is a 'rich' guy, but does that inherently mean he's in it for the wrong reasons?  I mean, couldn't he ride off into the sunset and spend his years on a beach in Barbados?  After all, he has run a substantial company over the last 30+ years that happens to be in an extremely regulated industry.  Could it be, maybe, that he's just sick and tired of the way things are going and that he wants to actually make a difference?

A lot of rich people could "ride off into the sunset" with all the money in the world, but, often times, it's power they seek.


Something tells me you're one of those that's skeptical of anyone and everyone who has been 'successful'...amirite?

No. I know lots of genuinely good, successful people, heck, I'd like to become wealthy myself someday. My skepticism begins when rich folks get bored and want to enter politics.
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby ad2330 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:56 pm

S33 wrote:No. I know lots of genuinely good, successful people, heck, I'd like to become wealthy myself someday. My skepticism begins when rich folks get bored and want to enter politics.


So what makes you think Sid is 'bored'? You know him that well or where is that massive assumption coming from?

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S33
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:54 pm

ad2330 wrote:
S33 wrote:No. I know lots of genuinely good, successful people, heck, I'd like to become wealthy myself someday. My skepticism begins when rich folks get bored and want to enter politics.


So what makes you think Sid is 'bored'?  You know him that well or where is that massive assumption coming from?

A very wealthy man in his 60's suddenly has a passion for public service? Anyone who makes that drastic of a career change that late in life, is clearly bored.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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S33
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby S33 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:16 pm

I will admit, though, even as a big time banker, Sid seems far more down-to-earth than some of the other candidates.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

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iamjacobm
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby iamjacobm » Wed May 14, 2014 9:50 am

Well Sasse takes it.

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HR Paperstacks
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby HR Paperstacks » Wed May 14, 2014 10:10 am

iamjacobm wrote:Well Sasse takes it.

Great...another Tea Party moron. That'll sure help the dysfunction in Washington :roll:

These guys need to learn that compromise is a basic part of governing.

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GetUrban
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby GetUrban » Wed May 14, 2014 12:54 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote:
iamjacobm wrote:Well Sasse takes it.

Great...another Tea Party moron. That'll sure help the dysfunction in Washington :roll:

These guys need to learn that compromise is a basic part of governing.


Totally agree.

I'll bet we'll see him move back more toward the center now that's he's won the battle of "who's the most conservative among the GOP candidates?" That said, the Democrats best bet may be if he continues to associate himself with the Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin crowd. Good Gawd.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Coyote
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby Coyote » Wed May 14, 2014 12:59 pm

GetUrban wrote:  That said, the Democrats best bet may be if he continues to associate himself with the Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin crowd. Good Gawd.

Don't think the Democrats will let anyone forget who supported them, especially now that the mainline GOP is quickly moving away from this fringe group.
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jessep28
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Re: US Senate GOP Primary

Postby jessep28 » Wed May 14, 2014 1:10 pm

Usually you see their positions moderate out for the general election.
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