Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:51 pm
A perfect example of how the unions have ruined our country..
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Unions, and especially public sector unions have gotten a bad name lately. Much of it has been justifiable. We do however, have to thank organized labor for a lot of the things we take for granted these days.guitarguy wrote:A perfect example of how the unions have ruined our country..
Also this statement from a New York Supreme Court judge in 1943:All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.
Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government."
To tolerate or recognize any combination of civil service employees of the government as a labor organization or union is not only incompatible with the spirit of democracy, but inconsistent with every principle upon which our government is founded. Nothing is more dangerous to public welfare than to admit that hired servants of the State can dictate to the government the hours, the wages and conditions under which they will carry on essential services vital to the welfare, safety, and security of the citizen. To admit as true that government employees have power to halt or check the functions of government unless their demands are satisfied, is to transfer to them all legislative, executive and judicial power. Nothing would be more ridiculous.
I wasn't referring to public sector unions in the first person. When I was saying "we", I was referring to all workers, union and non-union. I do belong to a union, the IBEW local 499. While belonging to a union, I do agree that many union workers have a sense of entitlement for what they have gotten and are not as willing to compromise as they should be. Just after I joined the union, we lost our pensions which I agreed we should not have been able to keep. Pensions are from a bygone union era and not sustainable in our current global economy. I will save further union discussion for another time/thread.jessep28 wrote:You refer to public sector unions in the first person. Which one do you represent?
How have unions ruined this country?!guitarguy wrote:A perfect example of how the unions have ruined our country..
Well, for one example, union-driven wages have forced an incredible amount of international outsourcing over the last 30 years.Linkin5 wrote:How have unions ruined this country?!guitarguy wrote:A perfect example of how the unions have ruined our country..
Yeah, I'm not saying unions are perfect, but would hardly say they ruined our country.S33 wrote:Well, for one example, union-driven wages have forced an incredible amount of international outsourcing over the last 30 years.Linkin5 wrote:How have unions ruined this country?!guitarguy wrote:A perfect example of how the unions have ruined our country..
But I don't think it's "ruining" the country. I think lousy presidents, a lazy and unaccountable congress, and corporate influence is ruining the country.
And stupid people. lots of stupid people.
Yeah, but isn't most of that private liabilities?guitarguy wrote:Can you say.. Unfunded Liabilities? If you factor those in our national debt is like 100 trillion..
But you do see the irony in how most private unions are formed as a necessity in lieu of corporate greed, right?guitarguy wrote:Any public sector union that has pensions across our nation is adding to the unfunded liability.. Since Nebraska is not a heavy union state we don't have as much of a problem with it here except for the Police and Firefighters.. if you guys recall every single time how unaccommodating they are during the negotiation process you'll understand why they basically end up getting whatever they want.
Not to mention that members of Congress receive varying levels of benefits (depending on positions held such as Minority/Majority Leaders, Pro Tempore, etc.) that they receive for life...guitarguy wrote:In a way I believe members of Congress have given up caring about debt because they can pass whatever they want and by the time it takes effect they will most likely be voted out of office and their hands will be cleaned of any wrong doing.
exactly.S33 wrote:But you do see the irony in how most private unions are formed as a necessity in lieu of corporate greed, right?guitarguy wrote:Any public sector union that has pensions across our nation is adding to the unfunded liability.. Since Nebraska is not a heavy union state we don't have as much of a problem with it here except for the Police and Firefighters.. if you guys recall every single time how unaccommodating they are during the negotiation process you'll understand why they basically end up getting whatever they want.
I'm actually half agreeing with you, and I've definitely taken note of the thuggish, mob-mentality with which the Fire/Police unions seem to operate. But there's a heck of a lot more wrong with this country than just the unions. You speak of union's unfunded liabilities on the public sector and the debt, but why is there even a mentality in congress that debt is simply a benign outcome of capitalism and a privately run federal reserve?
Heck, congress doesn't even talk about debt, anymore. Why? because they all know the system is designed to amass debt, crash, repeat.
Yes.guitarguy wrote:I only hope that for the sake of everyone in this country that we begin to hold our politicians feet to the fire and if they mess up.. they better hope they make friends in prison because its going to be a while before they get out. So sick of the lawyer culture the rich people in this country use to get away with everything through bribery, back room buyouts, cover ups etc.
Just look at this forum as an example, most hate Stohert and her policies. Even if a particular policy were extremely beneficial to the city, left-leaning voters would oppose it, simply because she's not "on their team". And the same would hold true with a liberal mayor and conservative voters.bigredmed wrote: chuckleheads for decades to come.
Stothert is dead on when she is trying to break this. We all (every tax payer in the city) should join in and call them out.
BUT THEY'RE GONNA SAVE US FROM FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!guitarguy wrote:Stotherts agenda of breaking the local Union control is reason enough for all of us to empathetically support her efforts.. As local tax payers there is no reason why we should support an organization that uses the threat of municipality services as ransom for the continuation of an unsustainable pension system that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place.. If people think the taxes are high in Omaha and Nebraska in general is because we have to raise property taxes and other tax rates to accommodate the fact that we have an unsustainable pension system we are paying only because some nitwit mayor 10 years ago negotiated the increase that we see today.. So by electing Mayors that refuse to negotiate with these organizations we should begin to see a leveling off of the local tax rates which will always result in a more robust local economy..
Unless they strike.S33 wrote:BUT THEY'RE GONNA SAVE US FROM FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!guitarguy wrote:Stotherts agenda of breaking the local Union control is reason enough for all of us to empathetically support her efforts.. As local tax payers there is no reason why we should support an organization that uses the threat of municipality services as ransom for the continuation of an unsustainable pension system that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place.. If people think the taxes are high in Omaha and Nebraska in general is because we have to raise property taxes and other tax rates to accommodate the fact that we have an unsustainable pension system we are paying only because some nitwit mayor 10 years ago negotiated the increase that we see today.. So by electing Mayors that refuse to negotiate with these organizations we should begin to see a leveling off of the local tax rates which will always result in a more robust local economy..
Private enterprise would love to see that happen, then let's see how well they leverage themselves.RNcyanide wrote:Unless they strike.S33 wrote:BUT THEY'RE GONNA SAVE US FROM FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!guitarguy wrote:Stotherts agenda of breaking the local Union control is reason enough for all of us to empathetically support her efforts.. As local tax payers there is no reason why we should support an organization that uses the threat of municipality services as ransom for the continuation of an unsustainable pension system that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place.. If people think the taxes are high in Omaha and Nebraska in general is because we have to raise property taxes and other tax rates to accommodate the fact that we have an unsustainable pension system we are paying only because some nitwit mayor 10 years ago negotiated the increase that we see today.. So by electing Mayors that refuse to negotiate with these organizations we should begin to see a leveling off of the local tax rates which will always result in a more robust local economy..
Thank god for that. How awesome would it be if we ended up like Detroit.guitarguy wrote:Local unions here would be pi$$ing in the wind if they tried striking since there are no laws on the books that protect them from being replaced by another organization.. Since Nebraska is a State that doesn't have collective bargaining rights where unions make a legal protection of themselves and their business.
What about it?Omababe wrote:The talking heads just announced that "they" will now be investigating the Chief's overall-tenure employment.
Just what the city needs, an old-fashioned witch hunt!
Public unions have agreed to give up the right to strike. Â That always seems to get forgotten in these conversations.RNcyanide wrote:Unless they strike.S33 wrote:BUT THEY'RE GONNA SAVE US FROM FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!guitarguy wrote:Stotherts agenda of breaking the local Union control is reason enough for all of us to empathetically support her efforts.. As local tax payers there is no reason why we should support an organization that uses the threat of municipality services as ransom for the continuation of an unsustainable pension system that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place.. If people think the taxes are high in Omaha and Nebraska in general is because we have to raise property taxes and other tax rates to accommodate the fact that we have an unsustainable pension system we are paying only because some nitwit mayor 10 years ago negotiated the increase that we see today.. So by electing Mayors that refuse to negotiate with these organizations we should begin to see a leveling off of the local tax rates which will always result in a more robust local economy..
I did not know that. Thanks for the correction!nativeomahan wrote:Public unions have agreed to give up the right to strike. That always seems to get forgotten in these conversations.RNcyanide wrote:Unless they strike.S33 wrote:BUT THEY'RE GONNA SAVE US FROM FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!guitarguy wrote:Stotherts agenda of breaking the local Union control is reason enough for all of us to empathetically support her efforts.. As local tax payers there is no reason why we should support an organization that uses the threat of municipality services as ransom for the continuation of an unsustainable pension system that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place.. If people think the taxes are high in Omaha and Nebraska in general is because we have to raise property taxes and other tax rates to accommodate the fact that we have an unsustainable pension system we are paying only because some nitwit mayor 10 years ago negotiated the increase that we see today.. So by electing Mayors that refuse to negotiate with these organizations we should begin to see a leveling off of the local tax rates which will always result in a more robust local economy..
He got less retirement and she only blocked reductions till December instead of June.