Budget: Police

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joeglow
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Postby joeglow » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:56 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
DTO Luv wrote:This is an honest question. Does the helicopter even go that far west? I'm sure it can but I don't see why it would need to that often.


Good question.


I have seen it out here a couple times.  One time, it went in the same circle for over 30 minutes.  I have NO clue what it was doing.

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Postby Bosco55David » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:18 pm

joeglow wrote:
Bosco55David wrote:
DTO Luv wrote:This is an honest question. Does the helicopter even go that far west? I'm sure it can but I don't see why it would need to that often.


Good question.


I have seen it out here a couple times.  One time, it went in the same circle for over 30 minutes.  I have NO clue what it was doing.
Could have been training. Pilots have to maintain their flight hours to keep their license so it's not unheard for the helicopter to be up in the air doing training to keep the flight time up.

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Postby TechnicalDisaster » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:21 pm

DTO Luv wrote:This is an honest question. Does the helicopter even go that far west? I'm sure it can but I don't see why it would need to that often.


I saw the police helicopter in the news footage of the shooting that happened at the exit ramp on 120th & Q.  I've seen it other times before that, but that is the most recent example I can think of.
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Postby joeglow » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:29 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
joeglow wrote:
Bosco55David wrote:[quote="DTO Luv"]This is an honest question. Does the helicopter even go that far west? I'm sure it can but I don't see why it would need to that often.


Good question.


I have seen it out here a couple times.  One time, it went in the same circle for over 30 minutes.  I have NO clue what it was doing.
Could have been training. Pilots have to maintain their flight hours to keep their license so it's not unheard for the helicopter to be up in the air doing training to keep the flight time up.[/quote]

It was after midnight.

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Postby Bugeater » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:51 pm

joeglow wrote:
Bosco55David wrote:
DTO Luv wrote:This is an honest question. Does the helicopter even go that far west? I'm sure it can but I don't see why it would need to that often.


Good question.


I have seen it out here a couple times.  One time, it went in the same circle for over 30 minutes.  I have NO clue what it was doing.

God it is annoying when they do that.

Anyway, I live by the 80/680 split, and I used to hear it all the time out this way, but now that I think about it I can't remember the last time I heard it at all. They must be spending the majority of their time somewhere else, or my hearing is getting bad.
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Postby Stargazer » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:13 pm

I love that it was quoted that the decision to appoint someone as interim police chief (and you know he will become the permanent chief) from within the department had nothing to do with budget problems... on the contrary... they should have hired someone from OUTSIDE the department to avoid another inevitable 6-figure retirement within the next 1-2 years.

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Postby Bosco55David » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:50 pm

Stargazer wrote:I love that it was quoted that the decision to appoint someone as interim police chief (and you know he will become the permanent chief) from within the department had nothing to do with budget problems... on the contrary... they should have hired someone from OUTSIDE the department to avoid another inevitable 6-figure retirement within the next 1-2 years.
That would have upset the police department off even more.

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Postby Big E » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:22 pm

Not to be COMPLETELY antagonistic here, but the fear of "upsetting off" the police department is part of why we're in the budget mess we're in.

While I think police (along with firefighters and teachers), as a whole, are grossly underpaid, our perpetual game of fiscal kissass with them is what leads to bull |expletive| policies and loopholes like spiking.

Contrary to their popular belief, they do not, in fact, walk on water.
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Postby Bosco55David » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:37 pm

Big E wrote:Not to be COMPLETELY antagonistic here, but the fear of "upsetting off" the police department is part of why we're in the budget mess we're in.

While I think police (along with firefighters and teachers), as a whole, are grossly underpaid, our perpetual game of fiscal kissass with them is what leads to bull |expletive| policies and loopholes like spiking.

Contrary to their popular belief, they do not, in fact, walk on water.


This is true, and that wasn't the intent of my post.

If you remember, the pension issue was given to them in exchange for pay raises. OPD is still working off of a 2006 or 2007 pay scale which was pretty good at the time, but now is lagging behind other comparable departments. Now with the pension in a shortfall (only 8% attributed to the spiking issue) OPD officers are going to have to take hits to their benefits on top of STILL not getting a pay raise. Even with happening, the both OPD and OFD unions have stepped up and said they would be willing to take on 50% of the shortfall, 42% more than they are responsible for.

I know people love to trash them right now because of the spiking issue, but OPD has been getting dicked over for the last several years and they still offered to take a major burden off the tax payers. As a tax payer and just a decent human being, it seems like a really bad move to try to put the screws to them again, or they might start trying to twist back.

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Postby Uffda » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:43 pm

While I think police (along with firefighters and teachers), as a whole, are grossly underpaid,


I need to say that the teachers' pay scale and benefits is nowhere near what the omaha fire and police are getting.

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Postby joeglow » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:05 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
I know people love to trash them right now because of the spiking issue, but OPD has been getting dicked over for the last several years and they still offered to take a major burden off the tax payers. As a tax payer and just a decent human being, it seems like a really bad move to try to put the screws to them again, or they might start trying to twist back.


If by dicked you mean having a retirement package |expletive| tons better (WITHOUT the spiking issue) than anything you can get in the private sector, then I agree.

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Postby Bosco55David » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:06 pm

joeglow wrote:If by dicked you mean having a retirement package |expletive| tons better (WITHOUT the spiking issue) than anything you can get in the private sector, then I agree.


In the private sector? Yes. Compared to other police departments? Not so great.

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Postby Uffda » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:46 am

In the private sector? Yes. Compared to other police departments? Not so great.


That still doesn't justify it.

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Postby Stargazer » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:41 pm

I have a hard time believing that the OPD pension plan is any worse than other police departments.  I also find it laughable that we compare Omaha with the likes of 'similarly sized' cities such as St Louis and Minneapolis (proper), which are far more challenging to police personnel in terms of their more urban settings.  Most OPD personnel have about as exciting a life out in Elkhorn (and likewise, other predominantly suburban areas of the city) as... well... their Elkhorn PD predecessors (who likely earned less than OPD officers and lived without the lifestyle changing pension to boot).

Eliminate the pension... give them a raise and a 5% match in a 401K account... give the northeast precinct officers a hazardous duty bonus.

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Postby Bosco55David » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:23 pm

Uffda wrote:That still doesn't justify it.


What needs to be justified about it?

Stargazer wrote:I have a hard time believing that the OPD pension plan is any worse than other police departments.
It is. Remember I'm trying to get into this career and have compared many police departments including OPD.

I also find it laughable that we compare Omaha with the likes of 'similarly sized' cities such as St Louis and Minneapolis (proper), which are far more challenging to police personnel in terms of their more urban settings.
I didn't say a word about Minneapolis and St. Louis, but being in an "urban" setting doesn't really have a darn thing to do with how challenging the job is, unless to you urban = crime.

Most OPD personnel have about as exciting a life out in Elkhorn (and likewise, other predominantly suburban areas of the city) as... well... their Elkhorn PD predecessors (who likely earned less than OPD officers and lived without the lifestyle changing pension to boot).
Go on an a few OPD ride alongs sometime and then tell me that. The only places it's as easy as you make it sound are the nicer parts of West Omaha.

Oh, and Elkhorn had a pension too. I'm almost sure of it. I'll check later.

Eliminate the pension... give them a raise and a 5% match in a 401K account...
So you want Omaha to be the only large city in America (that I know of) to NOT offer a police pension. If you think about it, that's a really bad idea. We'll lose recruits to the cities that do offer pensions and the recruits we do have will be of a lesser quality. Not a good idea for a department that is already shorthanded and having recruiting issues.

give the northeast precinct officers a hazardous duty bonus.
They should already be getting that.

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Postby DTO Luv » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:55 pm

Bosco55David wrote: We'll lose recruits to the cities that do offer pensions and the recruits we do have will be of a lesser quality. Not a good idea for a department that is already shorthanded and having recruiting issues.



Agreed. We might end up with cops like this.

Image

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Or worse yet....

Image
Image

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Postby Uffda » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:04 am

Uffda wrote:
That still doesn't justify it.


What needs to be justified about it?


Not against a pension but why should it be so much better than anything in the private sector.

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Postby Stargazer » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:57 am

unless to you urban = crime


Well, yeah... whether you want to attribute it to urbanity... density... age... vacuum left from white flight...whatever, you'll find the core of virtually every metropolitan area has a far higher crime rate than it's younger, surrounding suburbs.  You need only look as far as crimereports.com to see this all laid out before you in pretty color maps.

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Postby DTO Luv » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:20 pm

Stargazer wrote: You need only look as far as crimereports.com to see this all laid out before you in pretty color maps.


Whoa whoa whoa whitey. You mean African-American maps.
Image

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Postby Stargazer » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:43 pm

I'm disappointed the filter didn't pick that up.

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Postby Bosco55David » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:36 pm

Uffda wrote:Not against a pension but why should it be so much better than anything in the private sector.


Well I think the easiest answer is that it's not the private sector.

On top of that, I just don't buy into the idea of cutting down other people's benefits just because other people don't have it as good. If did that, all of us might as well be working for minimum wage.

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Postby joeglow » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:36 pm

Bosco55David wrote:Well I think the easiest answer is that it's not the private sector.


-And what is government without waste?

Bosco55David wrote:On top of that, I just don't buy into the idea of cutting down other people's benefits just because other people don't have it as good. If did that, all of us might as well be working for minimum wage.


-We are referring to market rates and not just artificially inflating pensions under the notion that "other governments are wasteful, we should be too."

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Postby Uffda » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:47 pm

Not against a pension but why should it be so much better than anything in the private sector.


Well I think the easiest answer is that it's not the private sector.


So let's here your justification for Omaha's high pension ---- beyond because City X does it.  I work in the non private sector and my retirement will be nowhere close to that.  So i guess you need to come up with more money for me to.   I also want 25 and out and want to make at least 75% of my retirement salary. Also can i count my sick days as part of my final year -- I have 58 days and I think they are worth at least $150/day so that should give me at least another 8000-9000 on my final year of salary. Oh also I could use some over time to tack on to the last year.

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Postby Bosco55David » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:09 pm

Uffda wrote:So let's here your justification for Omaha's high pension ---- beyond because City X does it.  I work in the non private sector and my retirement will be nowhere close to that.  So i guess you need to come up with more money for me to.   I also want 25 and out and want to make at least 75% of my retirement salary. Also can i count my sick days as part of my final year -- I have 58 days and I think they are worth at least $150/day so that should give me at least another 8000-9000 on my final year of salary. Oh also I could use some over time to tack on to the last year.


Form a union and fight for it.  8)

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Postby Big E » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:06 pm

Fight.  Extort.  Tomato. Tomahto.
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Postby joeglow » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:17 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
Uffda wrote:So let's here your justification for Omaha's high pension ---- beyond because City X does it.  I work in the non private sector and my retirement will be nowhere close to that.  So i guess you need to come up with more money for me to.   I also want 25 and out and want to make at least 75% of my retirement salary. Also can i count my sick days as part of my final year -- I have 58 days and I think they are worth at least $150/day so that should give me at least another 8000-9000 on my final year of salary. Oh also I could use some over time to tack on to the last year.


Form a union and fight for it.  8)


So you admit, they are not worth the benefits they are receiving?  Unions were necessary decades ago, as working conditions were terrible.  Today, working conditions in almost all situations are perfectly fine.  Unions are now about "sticking it to the man."

I don't want a union.  I bust my |expletive| and have received raises above the average every year for it.  On the other hand, let me share a story my wife experienced at one of our local hospitals:

She started there fresh out of college and busted her |expletive|.  She always stuck around after her 12 hour night shift to help out.  When her patients were easy, she would help out the other nurses who happened to have the more difficult patients.  On the other hand, other nurses sat around when they were done with their work and read or talked (while my wife have to fight to stay afloat with the difficult patients).  heck, my wife found another nurse sleeping in a hospital room.  The lady was warned, but was allowed to keep her job (she was fired a couple years later for stealing drugs).  

As my wife experienced her first annual performance review and raise, she was less than happy to see she got the same raise as everyone else.  Essentially, 2 things happened:  One, she quickly saw why all the other nurses were apathetic and strove to meet the bare minimum.  Two, all the good nurses ended up leaving for clinical jobs (as she did).

Unions are good for 2 things in today's environment:  rewarding and protecting the poor performers, to the detriment to the top performers and using extortion to gain benefits in excess of what the job is worth.

And before you jump on me here, look at your own situation.  You yourself admit you are "trying" to get on the force.  I personally know 2 people with many years experience in law enforcement who have tried, unsuccessfully, to get on in Omaha.  Look at the number of people who apply for a job versus the number who get one.  While I know all those who apply are not qualified, I guarantee MANY who do not get a job are more than qualified.  That shows you that we are ignoring the laws of supply and demand and paying more than we need to (and yet, people still try to use the "well city x pays that much" argument).  This over-compensation is the result of unions.
Last edited by joeglow on Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Bosco55David » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:22 pm

joeglow wrote:So you admit, they are not worth the benefits they are receiving?


I did?

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Postby joeglow » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:26 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
joeglow wrote:So you admit, they are not worth the benefits they are receiving?


I did?


It was a question.  And sorry for having to update my post, but my laptop was shutting down, so I had to post what I had and update it on my desktop.

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Postby Uffda » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:58 pm

Form a union and fight for it.


still waiting to hear your justification beyond ... well city x pays this..... or maybe you know there isnt any.

by the way, my salary is negotiated for the larger body i work with BUT any increase is based on what the budget will allow not what we hope the budget will bring in in the future.

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Postby Bosco55David » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:54 am

joeglow wrote:It was a question.  And sorry for having to update my post, but my laptop was shutting down, so I had to post what I had and update it on my desktop.
Alright, it seems like an honest question so I'll play along.

joeglow wrote:So you admit, they are not worth the benefits they are receiving?
No, I don't.

Unions were necessary decades ago, as working conditions were terrible.  Today, working conditions in almost all situations are perfectly fine.
While I agree that the working conditions are much better than they were decades ago, unions are still very useful. Even with the unions, OPD and OFD are still working off their payscales from nearly 3 years ago. 3 years ago they were getting paid pretty good, but now they're lagging behind other comparable departments.

Unions are now about "sticking it to the man."
Completely false. Unions are there to protect the best interest of the members, just like the businesses want to protect their best interests.

I don't want a union. I bust my |expletive| and have received raises above the average every year for it.  On the other hand, let me share a story my wife experienced at one of our local hospitals:
I'm glad to hear you're doing well and that your company treats you good and provides raises. But for every story like yours, there are many more that are exactly the opposite. I could tell you a few stories of my own working experiences where I would have killed for union protection.

She started there fresh out of college and busted her |expletive|.  She always stuck around after her 12 hour night shift to help out.  When her patients were easy, she would help out the other nurses who happened to have the more difficult patients.  On the other hand, other nurses sat around when they were done with their work and read or talked (while my wife have to fight to stay afloat with the difficult patients).  heck, my wife found another nurse sleeping in a hospital room.  The lady was warned, but was allowed to keep her job (she was fired a couple years later for stealing drugs).  

As my wife experienced her first annual performance review and raise, she was less than happy to see she got the same raise as everyone else.  Essentially, 2 things happened:  One, she quickly saw why all the other nurses were apathetic and strove to meet the bare minimum.  Two, all the good nurses ended up leaving for clinical jobs (as she did).
So what exactly is the problem? Does it suck that she got the same raise as some of the lazy workers? Yeah, but she still got a raise. Again, I've had jobs where I would have loved to have had a raise, even if my lazy coworkers got the same one.

Unions are good for 2 things in today's environment: rewarding and protecting the poor performers,
People keep saying that, but it's never been true. Just more mindless anti-union propaganda.

to the detriment to the top performers
I don't see how.

and using extortion to gain benefits in excess of what the job is worth.
I'd have to respond to that on a case by case basis. Provide some examples and I'll refute them as I see fit.

And before you jump on me here, look at your own situation. You yourself admit you are "trying" to get on the force.
I guess some clarification is in order here. I have never applied to OPD. I was going to apply to the current recruit class back in January but I couldn't afford the move back to Omaha at the time, and now the recruiting situation is up in the air. Down here in Florida the only departments that will hire you without you having certification (hiring process is MUCH different here) are all in the middle of layoffs.

Budget issues, either my own or the department's, is all that is really holding me back.

I personally know 2 people with many years experience in law enforcement who have tried, unsuccessfully, to get on in Omaha.
That has anything to do with the union. Also, why are they not getting hired? Are they failing the tests? Not scoring high enough? The hiring process is pretty long and they could have failed out at numerous points along the way.

Look at the number of people who apply for a job versus the number who get one. While I know all those who apply are not qualified, I guarantee MANY who do not get a job are more than qualified.
With the current economy, they are getting lots of applicants, but even that doesn't mean much. The last OPD recruitment had something like 1500 people apply, and within the first couple steps of the process, the list was trimmed down to under 300. There aren't a whole lot of qualified applicants who make it through the process and don't get a job offer, even in this horrible economy.

That shows you that we are ignoring the laws of supply and demand and paying more than we need to (and yet, people still try to use the "well city x pays that much" argument).
Police departments had extremely tough times recruiting enough qualified officers before the pay started catching up to the real world in the last 10 years or so. In fact, as recently as a couple years ago, OPD was taking all kinds of steps to attract new recruits because they couldn't fill the classes.

This over-compensation is the result of unions.
OPD's starting pay is $36,227. That's decent money, but no where even close to "over-compensation"

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Postby Bosco55David » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:06 am

Uffda wrote:still waiting to hear your justification beyond ... well city x pays this..... or maybe you know there isnt any.
And again I say "what needs to be justified about it?" I think everyone agrees that the spiking issue needs to be fixed, but the city gave that to the unions after refusing to give them pay raises, which is what OPD and OFD originally wanted.

Either way, that's only 8% of the pension shortfall, which will be made up for (and then some...and then some more) by reduced benefits on the next contract.
[/quote]

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Postby Uffda » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 am

I am curious how many public jobs out there get 75% of their salary as pension for the rest of their life?


We have had police officers retiring at 45 with An idea put them on a Rule of 85 like they do in some school districts/states.  If your years of service (involvement in a retirement plan) and age equals 85 then you can take early retirement -- it doesn't give you full retirement benefits those come when you hit age 60-65. Also at that point they can purchase insurance through the city or go find their own.

or maybe something like this

Any employee who has served twenty (20) years and who has reached his/her fiftieth (50th) birthday shall be allowed to apply for normal service retirement.  Normal service retirement is 45% (20-24 years service) or 55% (with 25 years service) of the employee's average final monthly compensation.  Average final monthly compensation means the member's highest average monthly compensation during any consecutive twelve paid months during the member's last five (5) years of service as a member of the system.  An employee can retire with 10-20 years of service at age 55:  10-14 years - 20%; 15-19 years - 30%.

If they start at approx. $36,000, after a year on the job the Initial hire gets a $4000 raise -- And in 5 years be at 57,000- not bad -- or am I reading that incorrectly.

Listed below is the 2008 annual salary range for Police Officers.

(T) Initial Hire              $36,227
(A) 1 year at step T       $40,179
(B) 6 months at step A $41,168
(C) 6 months at step B $44,461
(D) 1 year at step C        $52,998
(E) 1 year at step D       $55,003
(F) 1 year at step E        $57,360

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Postby joeglow » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:17 am

Bosco55David wrote:While I agree that the working conditions are much better than they were decades ago, unions are still very useful. Even with the unions, OPD and OFD are still working off their payscales from nearly 3 years ago. 3 years ago they were getting paid pretty good, but now they're lagging behind other comparable departments.


Lagging behind what departments?  However, it still leads to the question if so many people are willing to work for the wages they are currently being offered (such that they are turned away by the hundreds), I have a hard time saying they are underpaid.  Sure, everyone wants more money for their job, but the market does a pretty job of giving everyone with the proper skill set the opportunity to compete for the job at the pay they are willing to work for.

Bosco55David wrote:Completely false. Unions are there to protect the best interest of the members, just like the businesses want to protect their best interests. .


-What best interests of the union members would not be met if OPD and OFD were not unionized?  

Bosco55David wrote:I'm glad to hear you're doing well and that your company treats you good and provides raises. But for every story like yours, there are many more that are exactly the opposite. I could tell you a few stories of my own working experiences where I would have killed for union protection.


-Again, I don’t have a problem with unions if you are talking about working conditions.  However, when it comes to pay, I have not seen an issue at most places.  However, part of my view is probably based in the fact that my wife and I intentionally picked the fields we are in (accounting and nursing) because we knew we were on the right side the supply/demand equation.  In looking at how the two fields operate, it is clear which is more efficient in attracting top talent and which has led to huge increase in new students entering the fields of study.  Frankly, in many cases unions seem to want the same pay as people in high demand fields.  Seriously, do grocery scanners really deserve the pay they get as a result of their union in California?  I did that job when I was in high school and can assure you, it IS a minimum wage job.

Bosco55David wrote:So what exactly is the problem? Does it suck that she got the same raise as some of the lazy workers? Yeah, but she still got a raise. Again, I've had jobs where I would have loved to have had a raise, even if my lazy coworkers got the same one.


-The cases where I seen good employees NOT get raises are because the company could not afford it.  I don’t get this mindset.  Lets REQUIRE the company to eventually go bankrupt (ala GM) and all of us lose our jobs so we can feel good that we got a raise when one was not affordable.

Bosco55David wrote: People keep saying that, but it's never been true. Just more mindless anti-union propaganda.


-When it comes to pay, I fail to see how this is anti-union propaganda.  In the example I gave about my wife, they were not a union.  It simply highlighted how not compensating your top performers accordingly ultimately is to the detriment of the consumer, as they will not receive the top service.  

Bosco55David wrote: I don't see how.


-Did you read the example I gave of my wife? Explain to me how someone who provides top care for all her patients and then takes on other people’s patients deserves the exact same money as the people who sit in the break room and BS (or even sleep in patient’s rooms while working).

Bosco55David wrote: I'd have to respond to that on a case by case basis. Provide some examples and I'll refute them as I see fit.


1. OPD union.  Clearly the pay is not a deterrent from attracting talent (simply by looking at the applications in every recruiting class).  And yet, people demand that they be paid more.  Explain to me how when people are perfectly willing to work a job for “x,” it is only fair they be paid “x plus 100?”
2. GM:  CLEAR example of a union being willing to drive a company into nothing to get more money for their employees.  Being willing to pay employees almost full days of salaries to do nothing but sit in a room watch television all day for years.
3. NY Teacher’s Union.  20/20 did a piece a couple years on this group.  Apparently, they have over 100 teachers that do nothing but sit in a room all day long.  These teachers had relations with students that the school did not approve of.  However, under the union contract, they could not fire them, so they would rather pay them to do nothing before putting them in a classroom with students.


Bosco55David wrote: That has anything to do with the union. Also, why are they not getting hired? Are they failing the tests? Not scoring high enough? The hiring process is pretty long and they could have failed out at numerous points along the way.


-Think of it this way.  I have a test that I apply to all future applicants, which I expect a score of 70 out of 100 to be able to perform the required tasks.  I have 10 open slots and 200 people apply for it.  140 of those people get under 70 and will not meet the minimum requirements of the job.  That leaves me with 60 people who can definitely meet the requirements of the job.  This tells me, the pay is too high for the market as the number of qualified people I am attracting is six times what I have to offer.

Bosco55David wrote: Police departments had extremely tough times recruiting enough qualified officers before the pay started catching up to the real world in the last 10 years or so. In fact, as recently as a couple years ago, OPD was taking all kinds of steps to attract new recruits because they couldn't fill the classes.


-Yeah, and unions weren’t needed to do that.  Market conditions led the OPD to recognize what they needed to do to attract the numbers and they did it.  

Bosco55David wrote: OPD's starting pay is $36,227. That's decent money, but no where even close to "over-compensation"


-That is simply your opinion (and mine).  However, the market seems to disagree with you.  There are PLENTY of qualified people who are willing to work for that and even less.  Thus, it is OVER-compensation in that the OPD is paying MORE than they need to and still attract qualified talent

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Brad
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Postby Brad » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:38 pm

I downloaded a cool new app for my blackberry that is a police scanner. http://www.bbscanner.com/

I can't believe the number of missing persons calls and suspicious activity calls.

Also had a call for Able1 which was not up at the time, unfortunately they will need to get use to that.
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Postby nativeomahan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:21 pm

Police and Fire unions negotiate on behalf of their members the best salary and benefit package they can get.  That is their job.  Our unions and city seldom see eye to eye on a salary package, and that is when everyone turns to "comparables", a/k/a what other similarly sized cities in the region pay their people, in terms of salary and benefits.  Of course the data is always a year or so old, so if Omaha meets those pay levels we are still paying our people less than they deserve compared with other cities.  

What a job is really worth has nothing to do with how many people might apply for it.  That is more a reflection on the overall economy than on whether the employer is paying "too much", for goodness sakes.  I am in management and do hiring for my department.  When we have an opening we often get 30-40 applications.  How many of these people are "qualified" in my view?  Maybe 3-5 on average.  Lots of people apply to be cops for all the wrong reasons.  Yes, mental tests weed many goofballs out.  Just not enough.

Years ago Omaha agreed to increase pension benefits in lieu of giving our uniformed employees raises they deserved.  It was a gamble the city chose to take, and now I guess they wish they had gone the other route and raised the salaries.  You win some, you lose some.  We will surmount this challenge like we have every other one, and move on to brand new challenges next year and the following year, etc.  Life just happens to be like that.

I for one would never want to be a cop.  The stress levels are excessive, and lead to early burn out.  That is one reason we allow police officers to retire earlier than janitors or accountants.  Same with fire fighters.  It is boring work most of the time, but when that alarm rings they put their lives on the line like no janitor or attorney or accountant I know.  Good gracious, have we as a people forgotten 9/11 so quickly?

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Postby Coyote » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:47 pm

[font=Georgia]Suttle: Police contract reached[/font]

Maggie O'Brien WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER wrote:In a statement Monday, the mayor's office said the new proposal addresses concerns the City Council raised about the previous tentative agreement, reached last year. At the time, the council expressed concerns about, among other things, the five-year length of the contract and whether officers would contribute enough into the pension fund.
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Postby Coyote » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:52 pm

[font=Georgia]Councilman critical of contract[/font]

Maggie O'Brien WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER wrote:Councilman Franklin Thompson said the proposal adjusts the city's contribution into the troubled police and fire pension fund, but not enough to satisfy him. The city would contribute an additional 12.5 percent of police payroll in 2010 to help shore up the fund. That contribution would increase to 13.5 percent for the remainder of the five-year contract, bringing the city's total contribution to about 34 percent.  The council had asked the mayor to increase the city's contribution by 9.8 percent a year. “That's one of the most egregious things,” Thompson said.
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Postby Brad » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:58 am

Anyone else get a huge mailer in the mail this weekend defending the police contract.  It looked like a small newspaper.
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Postby omaproud » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:12 am

I got that mailer.  They sure did make sure to point out that no tax payer money was spent to print or send it out.  I haven't had time to look at it in detail, but so far it has done more to confuse me than to sway my opinion in favor of the police union.

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Postby Bosco55David » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:53 am

Brad wrote:Anyone else get a huge mailer in the mail this weekend defending the police contract.  It looked like a small newspaper.


Any chance you could scan it? I'd like to see it.


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