StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
(in the hypothetical situation we're talking about where I would be driving the speed limit in the left lane.)
According to the law, if you're driving in the left lane, even if you're obeying the speed limit, but you're not passing, then you're breaking the law (Rules of the Road). I think you just disagree with this law.
In reality this rule is probably only enforceable on the interstate, since on city streets there is usually too much traffic to say that people must stay right except to pass. People typically get in the lane they need to be in to make their next turn....those that are smart enough to think ahead.
The accident you give as an example is not really indicative of a flaw in our laws....it's a case of reckless driving.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
We were taught, in driver's education class, that the left-hand lane on a freeway/interstate road is reserved for passing and emergency responders, which would stand to reason that it is not acceptable to cruise in that lane at any speed, and once you pass another motorist, you are to immediately move a lane to the right.
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
Joeglow, what a random, pointless comment.
I was commenting on your thought that passing in the LEFT lane (i.e. the individual struck was in the left lane) is quite acceptable in the US under our set of laws.
What you just said still doesn't make any sense, both in regard to this thread and the topics being discussed, but also in the sense of being a logical, cohesive use of the English language.
Last edited by StreetsOfOmaha on Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
GetUrban wrote:According to the law, if you're driving in the left lane, even if you're obeying the speed limit, but you're not passing, then you're breaking the law (Rules of the Road).
Actually, I've already made this point in this thread. As you point out, no one should ever be in the left lane except to pass while observing the speed limit or to turn left. This is virtually never enforced, contributes to the broken window effect as it pertains to our legal system, and adds to the incoherence and confusion regarding how we are to drive on local streets vs. Interstate highways.
GetUrban wrote:The accident you give as an example is not really indicative of a flaw in our laws....it's a case of reckless driving.
Frankly, this is exactly what I am saying. The problem is largely with enforcement. Here is a guy who was recklessly passing an accident in the right lane and who killed someone as a result and all law enforcement are willing to do is give him a ticket. It's absolute insanity.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:This is virtually never enforced, contributes to the broken window effect as it pertains to our legal system, and adds to the incoherence and confusion regarding how we are to drive on local streets vs. Interstate highways.
Funny how pretty much everyone agrees with what the standards and rules are except for you, and even you tend to agree those are the standards, you just don't like them. So I'm not seeing this supposed incoherence or confusion...
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:OmahaBen, what are you talking about? Where am I wrong? You say just because I don't like a law doesn't mean it's not the law, then you turn around and say I'm a dick for following the law... (in the hypothetical situation we're talking about where I would be driving the speed limit in the left lane.)
I said even if (hypothetically) you were correct (because, for instance, you were in a jurisdiction that allowed you to cruise in the left lane), you'd still be a dick for breaking the unwritten social contract regarding the use of the left hand lane. There are plenty of actions which constitute legal conduct which are nevertheless....less than courteous to everyone else around you.
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
Joeglow, what a random, pointless comment.
I was commenting on your thought that passing in the LEFT lane (i.e. the individual struck was in the left lane) is quite acceptable in the US under our set of laws.
What you just said still doesn't make any sense, both in regard to this thread and the topics being discussed, but also in the sense of being a logical, cohesive use of the English language.
Jesus, by 6 year old has a better grasp of reality. Â The LEFT lane is intended to be used for passing. Â Thus, if I am passing in the left lane (as you stated), there is nothing illegal about it.
Joe, we are definitely not on the same page with whatever you are trying to say to me.
Ben, I'm not really sure what you are arguing either, except that one is supposed to follow the law, but it's ok to not follow the law if one is following some vague, nebulous, "unwritten" social law, set by whomever it is convenient for at the time...
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Ben, I'm not really sure what you are arguing either, except that one is supposed to follow the law, but it's ok to not follow the law if one is following some vague, nebulous, "unwritten" social law, set by whomever it is convenient for at the time...
Like the vague social law that states that it is acceptable to drive in the far left lane as slow as you like, as long as it is over the minimum limit, regardless of any other vehicles?
Wow, so back to gaps. Â I get irritated when the right lane stacks up with such gaps that people can't get into the right turn lane and miss the green arrow.
cdub wrote:Wow, so back to gaps. I get irritated when the right lane stacks up with such gaps that people can't get into the right turn lane and miss the green arrow.
Finally, someone talks and agrees about the original topic of the thread!
Anyway, you must mean left turn lane and missing the green arrow for that. I think there must be a lot of far-sighted people out there who must stop at least 3 car lengths behind the car in front, otherwise the car looks blurry to them.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Joe, we are definitely not on the same page with whatever you are trying to say to me.
Ben, I'm not really sure what you are arguing either, except that one is supposed to follow the law, but it's ok to not follow the law if one is following some vague, nebulous, "unwritten" social law, set by whomever it is convenient for at the time...
No, it's that following the law is a bare minimum standard. Are you really so dense as to not understand that society often expects people to act in ways above and beyond that which the law merely requires?
Even where it is legal to drive in the far left lane of a highway without passing anyone, it is still discourteous to everyone else around you to do so. I refuse to believe that you can't understand that distinction, which implies to me that you're playing the role of the troll in tonight's performance. Because otherwise you're being willfully ignorant, which is even more unbecoming for someone who flaunts his graduate school credentials in the manner you do.
Ben, I completely understand the distinction. What you apparently don't understand is that there is a difference between being courteous (think letting the person who's just buying a loaf of bread at the grocery store go before you in the check-out line when you have a cart full of groceries) and allowing yourself to be bullied by people with a disregard for the law (as in, why should I be pressured to move out of the left lane to enable a speeder to zoom through when I am safely and legally traveling at the speed limit?). It actually takes balls, and the knowledge that you are morally and legally in the right, to stand up for yourself and not be pushed around by ignorant people who behave dangerously.
Of course, your viewpoint is totally affirmed and enabled by our stellar law enforcement in the US...
...which brings me to the next point.
Bosco, here are some of your police-academy-trained elites in action:
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:It actually takes balls, and the knowledge that you are morally and legally in the right, to stand up for yourself and not be pushed around by ignorant people who behave dangerously.
Of course, your viewpoint is totally affirmed and enabled by our stellar law enforcement in the US...
It was quoted earlier and immediately overlooked that the left lane gappers are not legally in the right.
Upon all roadways, any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
So technically, it is also your viewpoint that is being affirmed and enabled by that same law enforcement.
Brad: Left lane hogs bite.
Streets: No way! Â I can drive whatever speed I want in the left lane. Â Unwritten "laws" are not laws!
Varied Posters: Uh, actually, it is the law. Â See here...
Streets: Â I don't agree with that law, therefore it's wrong. Â Society is terrible. Â Cops are corrupt. Â Here's a video of them doing something bad that's not relevant to the topic at all! Â Cars suck! Â *record skips....starts over*
Moving on....
Equal Opportunity Hater.
Proudly oppressing the rest of Omaha with my suburbia lifestyle since 1999.
Zilla wrote:Streets: No way! I can drive whatever speed I want in the left lane.
No. Not "whatever speed"; at or below the speed limit. If you disagree, you're an ignorant waste of life who deserves everything you have coming to you. Â :D
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
And this ignorance is what the media relies on...and in this case, I am sure it is making its way across your anti-car websites, allowing everyone to cream their jeans. Â The reality is that study after study has shown how common (and healthy) gallows humor is. Â Here is one that was done a few months ago:
I'm surprised this kind of thing isn't in the news more often, frankly, with how prevalent these attitudes and behaviors are among law enforcement. I've personally encountered this level of arrogance/ignorance from cops on multiple occasions... in fact, the majority of occasions where I've interacted with police officers; I'm not even counting bad behavior from on-duty police officers that I've observed/experienced as a pedestrian and bystander.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:What the media rely on for what?
An ignorant consumer going "OMFG this is terrible." Â They then hope some other ignorant person will spread it all over the internets.
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:I'm surprised this kind of thing isn't in the news more often, frankly, with how prevalent these attitudes and behaviors are among law enforcement. I've personally encountered this level of arrogance/ignorance from cops on multiple occasions... in fact, the majority of occasions where I've interacted with police officers; I'm not even counting bad behavior from on-duty police officers that I've observed/experienced as a pedestrian and bystander.
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:No. Not "whatever speed"; at or below the speed limit. If you disagree, you're an ignorant waste of life who deserves everything you have coming to you. :D
Do I believe you can drive in the left lane "at or below the speed limit" whenever you want despite traffic behind you? No, I don't....so I certainly disagree. Annnnnnd, out come the personal insults.
Hey, the law may state that I'm supposed to yield to bicyclists, but that's a stupid law. Nuts to that.
Equal Opportunity Hater.
Proudly oppressing the rest of Omaha with my suburbia lifestyle since 1999.
StreetsOfOmaha wrote: (as in, why should I be pressured to move out of the left lane to enable a speeder to zoom through when I am safely and legally traveling at the speed limit?).
Safely must mean different things to you and me. Blocking in a speeder may make you feel smug as a speed limit enforcing vigilante, but there's not a defensive driving course on the planet that would tell you it's the safe way to handle that situation.
And in the situation where you're blocking a stream of speeders rather than an isolated one, you're actually being the more dangerous driver by purposely disrupting the flow of traffic. Once again, difference in speed kills more than speed itself.
But it's a moot point, anyway, since the Nebraska traffic code, and that of many other states, says you'd be legally wrong, too.
BTW: Just got back from a week in the Detroit area. You wouldn't last a day on those highways driving at or below the speed limit in the left hand lane (or any other lane, to be honest).
I think I have brought this up before, but it happens all the time... Â If you are turning right and you have a green light, you NEVER yield to an oncoming car that wants to turn left. Â You shouldn't even be looking at that left turning car, you should be watching out for pedestrians using the crosswalk since the crosswalk would be "walk" at that time too. Â Not a day goes by where I don't see several cars sit there waiting to make a right and and yield to left turning vehicles...
OmahaBen wrote:Once again, difference in speed kills more than speed itself.
OK, sure. So how the |expletive| is the person driving the safe, legal speed the one who is behaving in an unsafe manner? That's seriously |expletive| up and proves my point about how collectively flawed our thinking is as a society. Thanks.
And, I "wouldn't last" on a Detroit freeway? As in, I would die? And I suppose that would be OK, huh, since I wasn't "going with the flow"? Again, |expletive| up. Besides, what do you know about my driving skills? I've driven in cities with much crazier speeders than the likes of Detroit. Lucky for me, I will never willingly set foot in Detroit.
Also, though my comments above still stand, I can't stress enough the fact that we are NOT talking about interstate driving here. But, again, thank you for confirming the flawed thinking and conflation of the two completely different driving circumstances.
"The right to have access to every building in the city by private motorcar in an age when everyone possesses such a vehicle is actually the right to destroy the city."
Lewis Mumford, The Highway and the City, 1963
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
OK, sure. So how the |expletive| is the person driving the safe, legal speed the one who is behaving in an unsafe manner? That's seriously |expletive| up and proves my point about how collectively flawed our thinking is as a society. Thanks.
Also, though my comments above still stand, I can't stress enough the fact that we are NOT talking about interstate driving here. But, again, thank you for confirming the flawed thinking and conflation of the two completely different driving circumstances.
You have once again ignored that you are not driving legally in any of these scenarios, but please continue typing with utter disregard towards what anyone else is saying.
OmahaBen wrote:Once again, difference in speed kills more than speed itself.
OK, sure. So how the |expletive| is the person driving the safe, legal speed the one who is behaving in an unsafe manner? That's seriously |expletive| up and proves my point about how collectively flawed our thinking is as a society. Thanks.
And, I "wouldn't last" on a Detroit freeway? As in, I would die? And I suppose that would be OK, huh, since I wasn't "going with the flow"? Again, |expletive| up. Besides, what do you know about my driving skills? I've driven in cities with much crazier speeders than the likes of Detroit. Lucky for me, I will never willingly set foot in Detroit.
Also, though my comments above still stand, I can't stress enough the fact that we are NOT talking about interstate driving here. But, again, thank you for confirming the flawed thinking and conflation of the two completely different driving circumstances.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I think we're done here. When the f-bombs start flying, you know the troll's given up.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: