M's Pub Explosion and Fire

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby RNcyanide » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:37 pm

Brad wrote:I'm not ready to write off this building yet. I still think it can be saved.


Yeah me too.

If they do have to rebuild, I think a brick and glass structure would be great. Something that has large windows but enough brick and maybe some detailing that is similar to the current building. I just loved the way M's and NE would light up that corner at night, I think it would look neat to have the same glow going up the whole corner.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby PotatoeEatsFish » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:01 pm

Image

Just collapse the walls above the 2nd story, clear out the inside and make it a garden. Behind the building in that small parking lot they could make a brick 6 story building that could serve as a museum and/or an art gallery. Might I suggest the American Museum of Ancient Arts?
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:09 pm

I don't think we need to go to that extreme, Potatoe. The M's building is only 66' x 66' (not counting the canopies) with the street facades still intact. The overwhelming majority of people just want it returned to something resembling what it once was, with the same functions. Whether that is a complete restoration/duplication or something new that will blend-in with the Old Market remains to be determined. I could be wrong, but I don't think the Mercer's would take the approach of doing some new radical design, such as a Frank Gehry building, at that location. There would be a public outcry if they did, but people would eventually get over it.

In 2004, there was a fire in the old Egg building on 12th between Howard & Harney, which was being converted into a new restaurant/bar called Jobber's Canyon Brewery (now Blue). The damage from that fire was very similar, with some walls collapsed, and they were able to save the building. I think the key question now on the M's building is whether the remaining brick load-bearing walls can still carry the floor and roof loads, or if they will have to add new steel structure to shore-up the brick facades. If they have to add that much new steel, it might be more cost effective to start from scratch. Whatever they do, the new construction will have to meet the current building and life safety codes. I would assume they'll also add an automatic fire sprinkler system, and hopefully make sure the gas shut-offs are easily accessible everywhere in the old market. On the other hand, If they are allowed to just make repairs to replace all fire-damaged components to its original state, there might be some exceptions made as far as bringing it up to current code and ADA accessibility standards.

If they do need to build something entirely new, there is a great example of what could be done as an appropriate replacement right up the street at the southwest corner of 12th & Howard....

Image
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby nativeomahan » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:18 am

I was thinking last night, wouldn't it be a great tribute to M's if some of the other Old Market restaurants each added to their menus an item or two from M's popular menu? One way or another I doubt M's will be back up and running in the next year, or even two years. That would be a nice tribute to M's, and I suspect it would be well received by the public.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby iamjacobm » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:55 am

nativeomahan wrote:I was thinking last night, wouldn't it be a great tribute to M's if some of the other Old Market restaurants each added to their menus an item or two from M's popular menu? One way or another I doubt M's will be back up and running in the next year, or even two years. That would be a nice tribute to M's, and I suspect it would be well received by the public.


The M's kitchen staff is going to be at Nite Owl on the 25th making some of the menu items including the Lahvosh

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby RNcyanide » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:07 am

They could then donate a certain portion of the price to rebuilding M's and/or NE.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Seth » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:46 pm

GetUrban wrote:I think the key question now on the M's building is whether the remaining brick load-bearing walls can still carry the floor and roof loads, or if they will have to add new steel structure to shore-up the brick facades. If they have to add that much new steel, it might be more cost effective to start from scratch.


I think the biggest factor here will be if the current shell is stable and safe to work around before a new supporting structure could be built. If it is, building a new steel structure inside it is something done relatively often for the project in New York where they have to preserve historical facades. If it's not safe to work around, I think we'll find out in the next couple weeks, and demo would follow shortly after. That would let them re-open the intersection while the rest of the details get sorted out.

If it does need to come down, I agree that a modern building that fits the style of the surrounding structures would be the best fit. Since duplicating the intricate brick facades doesn't seem to be cost-effective, I think something along the lines of the building Plank is in would fit in pretty well.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Coyote » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:56 pm

The North wall will have to go...
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Coyote » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:00 pm

Investigators Determine Cause Of M's Pub Explosion, Fire

KFAB wrote:Investigators said crews boring under the sidewalk in front of the building struck the gas service line that was the main gas feed to the building. Natural gas filtered into the basement of M's Pub before "a credible ignition source ignited the gas" which caused the explosion and fire.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby MTO » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:01 pm

Maybe they can build into that lot then..
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby S33 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:50 pm

MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Would look really nice if they planted a couple mini birtch trees and some flower pots to make it look fresh.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:33 pm

S33 wrote:
MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.


Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby MTO » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:57 pm

GetUrban wrote:
S33 wrote:
MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.


Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.


I was talking about building into that tiny lot to the north since that wall must be replace anyway.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby MadMartin8 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:58 pm

S33 wrote:
MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Would look really nice if they planted a couple mini birtch trees and some flower pots to make it look fresh.



As long as they were organic and free trade trees.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby RNcyanide » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:32 pm

They should reserve the spots at odd hours as well.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Brad » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:50 pm

The Structural Engineer went inside today:

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby S33 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:08 pm

Brad wrote:The Structural Engineer went inside today:

Image

Now, that takes some balls of steel. Not a job I'd want.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:12 pm

MTO wrote:
GetUrban wrote:
S33 wrote:
MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.


Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.


I was talking about building into that tiny lot to the north since that wall must be replace anyway.

I was being sarcastic. I've also been thinking they could build something new between the M's north wall and the alley...only if a substantial re-build is necessary. Glad to see the Mercers are getting a second opinion from WJE/BVH. Sounds like if there is a way to save the walls, they'll find it. I hope they make sure the gas is easier to shut-off too. Seems strange that the active shut-off would be located under a parking space, as MUD said in an OWH article.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby S33 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:38 am

GetUrban wrote:
MTO wrote:
GetUrban wrote:
S33 wrote:
MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.


Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.


I was talking about building into that tiny lot to the north since that wall must be replace anyway.

I was being sarcastic. I've also been thinking they could build something new between the M's north wall and the alley...only if a substantial re-build is necessary. Glad to see the Mercers are getting a second opinion from WJE/BVH. Sounds like if there is a way to save the walls, they'll find it. I hope they make sure the gas is easier to shut-off too. Seems strange that the active shut-off would be located under a parking space, as MUD said in an OWH article.

Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby RNcyanide » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:34 am

One would assume... It would also have to depend on people not being imbeciles and parking over it if it is marked, just like some people love to park in front of fire hydrants or across from people's driveways. I wonder if they had to have the fire truck push it out of the way to access it.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:06 am

The OWH article said that MUD shut-off an abandoned gas line to M's first and then shut-off several other lines in the area until they found the right one. It was unclear in the article if MUD's record drawings showed the correct layout of the active line into M's. The article also said someone came and moved their car from over the correct shut-off...probably just to move it away from the fire, not at MUD's or OFD's request.
In any case, the gas shut-offs should never be located anywhere that could potentially be covered-up, such as under a parking space. They should be located near the edge of the sidewalk or more toward the middle of the street. Damage to the building would have been far less if they shut it off within 15-30 mins., obviously. You can't blame anyone for parking over a gas shut-off if there is a parking stall marked there. If there was not a stall there, it should have been marked NO PARKING 24/7/365.
Link to OWH story:
http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/as-gas-fed-m-s-pub-building-fire-confused-mud/article_06bd4606-c156-11e5-8a93-07110247445e.html
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby jessep28 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:56 pm

S33 wrote:Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...


Maybe today, but the gas line was probably 100+ years old.
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:07 pm

jessep28 wrote:
S33 wrote:Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...


Maybe today, but the gas line was probably 100+ years old.


But the gas service line was replaced in 2009...according to the article. It would have been brought up to standards then. It was probably replaced several times throughout the past 100 years or whenever gas service was brought into the OM. Federal law says the shut-offs are supposed to be checked every year....doubt if that happens though.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby S33 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:29 pm

jessep28 wrote:
S33 wrote:Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...


Maybe today, but the gas line was probably 100+ years old.

My point is that is doesn't have to be a parking space
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby skinzfan23 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:34 am

Chances look good for repairing M's Pub building without tearing down north wall, experts hired by owners say

“Generally, everything looks optimistic,” Nicholas Bonham-Carter, who with Mark Mercer runs Mercer Management, said on Monday.
That includes the prospects of saving the building without having to tear down its north wall, he said.
“The engineer did not believe that it is in dangerously bad shape,” Bonham-Carter said. “He said the north wall is not in danger of collapsing, but he did say it needs some bracing for repairs.”

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Coyote » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:22 am

Great news... :banger:
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:24 pm

Coyote wrote:Great news... :banger:


Absolutely! Great that the character of such a prominent corner in the Old Market may be preserved! :D
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Coyote » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:27 pm

Nouvelle Eve owner promises store will be back

"When we see that Nouvelle Eve lady in the window, I think she's saying, 'We'll be back." Cull said. "She's saying, 'Don't worry, I got you.'"
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:07 pm

Saw this photo on the Forgotten Omaha FP page...

Image

It shows how the M's building used to extend all the way north to the alley with 4 more bays just like the ones that are still standing. They must have lost the north bays in a fire that occurred in the 30s or 40s, as mentioned in some news reports. Wish they could rebuild it back to this! (not too likely though) Looks like it has always had those vines growing on the canopies.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby skinzfan23 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:03 pm

Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Brad » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:05 pm

skinzfan23 wrote:Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.


I sure hope they put it back that way when they rebuild...
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Brad » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:07 pm

I totally agree with the Ghost Town reference... Our gallery's traffic is about half of what it should be...

'It's a ghost town': Old Market businesses lament lack of customers after M's Pub fire

Paige Yowell / World-Herald staff writer wrote:“The whole Old Market isn’t closed. And a lot of people think that,” Hoover said. “I’ve had a lot of people approach me and say, ‘Oh, my gosh, is there anything open down there?’ ”
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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby skinzfan23 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:09 pm

I can't believe that the street is closed. Can we get a move on it and at the very least open the street back up.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Uffda » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:14 am

skinzfan23 wrote:I can't believe that the street is closed. Can we get a move on it and at the very least open the street back up.


from the article

Omaha City Planning Superintendent Jay Davis said he has no definitive timeline on when the intersection might open.
The 11th and Howard intersection is closed now, Davis said, because it’s uncertain whether the M’s Pub building is structurally sound. If the building were to collapse, Davis doesn’t want people nearby.
The city is waiting on a report from structural engineers hired by Mercer Management to decide how to move forward — whether to shore up the building, if necessary, or to demolish part of it.
“If I had my way about it, it’d be done this afternoon,” Davis said of a decision on the building and a reopening of the intersection.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby GetUrban » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:51 am

skinzfan23 wrote:Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.


I'm looking for an old photo showing the M's building during, or right after, the 1930s-1940s fire, but so far have not found anything. There are a ton of fire photos in the John Savage collection on the Durham Museum website, but so far, nothing on that one. It must have been pretty substantial since the north half of the building had to be demo'd. Also, it's pretty sobering after looking through hundreds of fire photos to see how many buildings downtown have had fires. The Millard Hotel fire at 13th and Douglas was an especially bad one with several fire fighter's lives lost.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby daveoma » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:40 am

GetUrban wrote:
skinzfan23 wrote:Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.


I'm looking for an old photo showing the M's building during, or right after, the 1930s-1940s fire, but so far have not found anything. There are a ton of fire photos in the John Savage collection on the Durham Museum website, but so far, nothing on that one. It must have been pretty substantial since the north half of the building had to be demo'd. Also, it's pretty sobering after looking through hundreds of fire photos to see how many buildings downtown have had fires. The Millard Hotel fire at 13th and Douglas was an especially bad one with several fire fighter's lives lost.


Can you post some pictures in the pictures & videos section GetUrban?

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby swgiust » Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:43 am

It is really sad but it would have been better for the old market if the building had come down. There would be a flat lot there right now. The old market would be "open" again. The owners of M's must really consider their neighbors as they move forward. Sure a top to bottom historically accurate restoration would be awesome, but not if it takes 5 years.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby skinzfan23 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:57 am

I doubt if the lot would be flat by now....my guess is that they would still be investigating the building and wouldn't have demolished it that soon. I for one, would love to wait a little longer to see the current building rehabbed, and it sounds like the owners don't want it to drag out either.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby swgiust » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:56 am

Two post in one day! I really like outside the box thinking. Two thoughts that I have had:

The city should make the parking building next to Roja's free. With a little promotion it would greatly help the Old Market stay open.

Second, M's should look at the old "O" building. They literally could clean it up and open. I'm sure the owners would love to sign a nice
3 year lease there.

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Re: M's Pub Explosion and Fire

Postby Mr.Nuke » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:36 am

swgiust wrote:It is really sad but it would have been better for the old market if the building had come down. There would be a flat lot there right now. The old market would be "open" again. The owners of M's must really consider their neighbors as they move forward. .

Well the owners of M's aren't the owners of the building. M's was a tenant.


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