Omaha Forums

Brad wrote:I'm not ready to write off this building yet. I still think it can be saved.

Yeah me too.

If they do have to rebuild, I think a brick and glass structure would be great. Something that has large windows but enough brick and maybe some detailing that is similar to the current building. I just loved the way M's and NE would light up that corner at night, I think it would look neat to have the same glow going up the whole corner.

Just collapse the walls above the 2nd story, clear out the inside and make it a garden. Behind the building in that small parking lot they could make a brick 6 story building that could serve as a museum and/or an art gallery. Might I suggest the American Museum of Ancient Arts?

I don't think we need to go to that extreme, Potatoe. The M's building is only 66' x 66' (not counting the canopies) with the street facades still intact. The overwhelming majority of people just want it returned to something resembling what it once was, with the same functions. Whether that is a complete restoration/duplication or something new that will blend-in with the Old Market remains to be determined. I could be wrong, but I don't think the Mercer's would take the approach of doing some new radical design, such as a Frank Gehry building, at that location. There would be a public outcry if they did, but people would eventually get over it.

In 2004, there was a fire in the old Egg building on 12th between Howard & Harney, which was being converted into a new restaurant/bar called Jobber's Canyon Brewery (now Blue). The damage from that fire was very similar, with some walls collapsed, and they were able to save the building. I think the key question now on the M's building is whether the remaining brick load-bearing walls can still carry the floor and roof loads, or if they will have to add new steel structure to shore-up the brick facades. If they have to add that much new steel, it might be more cost effective to start from scratch. Whatever they do, the new construction will have to meet the current building and life safety codes. I would assume they'll also add an automatic fire sprinkler system, and hopefully make sure the gas shut-offs are easily accessible everywhere in the old market. On the other hand, If they are allowed to just make repairs to replace all fire-damaged components to its original state, there might be some exceptions made as far as bringing it up to current code and ADA accessibility standards.

If they do need to build something entirely new, there is a great example of what could be done as an appropriate replacement right up the street at the southwest corner of 12th & Howard....

I was thinking last night, wouldn't it be a great tribute to M's if some of the other Old Market restaurants each added to their menus an item or two from M's popular menu? One way or another I doubt M's will be back up and running in the next year, or even two years. That would be a nice tribute to M's, and I suspect it would be well received by the public.

nativeomahan wrote:I was thinking last night, wouldn't it be a great tribute to M's if some of the other Old Market restaurants each added to their menus an item or two from M's popular menu? One way or another I doubt M's will be back up and running in the next year, or even two years. That would be a nice tribute to M's, and I suspect it would be well received by the public.

The M's kitchen staff is going to be at Nite Owl on the 25th making some of the menu items including the Lahvosh

They could then donate a certain portion of the price to rebuilding M's and/or NE.

GetUrban wrote:I think the key question now on the M's building is whether the remaining brick load-bearing walls can still carry the floor and roof loads, or if they will have to add new steel structure to shore-up the brick facades. If they have to add that much new steel, it might be more cost effective to start from scratch.

I think the biggest factor here will be if the current shell is stable and safe to work around before a new supporting structure could be built. If it is, building a new steel structure inside it is something done relatively often for the project in New York where they have to preserve historical facades. If it's not safe to work around, I think we'll find out in the next couple weeks, and demo would follow shortly after. That would let them re-open the intersection while the rest of the details get sorted out.

If it does need to come down, I agree that a modern building that fits the style of the surrounding structures would be the best fit. Since duplicating the intricate brick facades doesn't seem to be cost-effective, I think something along the lines of the building Plank is in would fit in pretty well.

The North wall will have to go...

Investigators Determine Cause Of M's Pub Explosion, Fire

KFAB wrote:Investigators said crews boring under the sidewalk in front of the building struck the gas service line that was the main gas feed to the building. Natural gas filtered into the basement of M's Pub before "a credible ignition source ignited the gas" which caused the explosion and fire.

Maybe they can build into that lot then..

MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Would look really nice if they planted a couple mini birtch trees and some flower pots to make it look fresh.

S33 wrote:

MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.

GetUrban wrote:

S33 wrote:

MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.

I was talking about building into that tiny lot to the north since that wall must be replace anyway.

S33 wrote:

MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Would look really nice if they planted a couple mini birtch trees and some flower pots to make it look fresh.

As long as they were organic and free trade trees.

They should reserve the spots at odd hours as well.

The Structural Engineer went inside today:

Brad wrote:The Structural Engineer went inside today:

Now, that takes some balls of steel. Not a job I'd want.

MTO wrote:

GetUrban wrote:

S33 wrote:

MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.

I was talking about building into that tiny lot to the north since that wall must be replace anyway.

I was being sarcastic. I've also been thinking they could build something new between the M's north wall and the alley...only if a substantial re-build is necessary. Glad to see the Mercers are getting a second opinion from WJE/BVH. Sounds like if there is a way to save the walls, they'll find it. I hope they make sure the gas is easier to shut-off too. Seems strange that the active shut-off would be located under a parking space, as MUD said in an OWH article.

GetUrban wrote:

MTO wrote:

GetUrban wrote:

S33 wrote:

MTO wrote:Maybe they can build into that lot then..

To be honest, this M's pub location was always a prime spot for surface parking. People could make the long trek from 190th and dodge and have little to no walk to these establishments nearby.

Plus, not having M's there will cut down on the need for OM parking. Win-win. Should consider turning the other properties with buildings into parking too.

I was talking about building into that tiny lot to the north since that wall must be replace anyway.

I was being sarcastic. I've also been thinking they could build something new between the M's north wall and the alley...only if a substantial re-build is necessary. Glad to see the Mercers are getting a second opinion from WJE/BVH. Sounds like if there is a way to save the walls, they'll find it. I hope they make sure the gas is easier to shut-off too. Seems strange that the active shut-off would be located under a parking space, as MUD said in an OWH article.

Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...

One would assume... It would also have to depend on people not being imbeciles and parking over it if it is marked, just like some people love to park in front of fire hydrants or across from people's driveways. I wonder if they had to have the fire truck push it out of the way to access it.

The OWH article said that MUD shut-off an abandoned gas line to M's first and then shut-off several other lines in the area until they found the right one. It was unclear in the article if MUD's record drawings showed the correct layout of the active line into M's. The article also said someone came and moved their car from over the correct shut-off...probably just to move it away from the fire, not at MUD's or OFD's request.
In any case, the gas shut-offs should never be located anywhere that could potentially be covered-up, such as under a parking space. They should be located near the edge of the sidewalk or more toward the middle of the street. Damage to the building would have been far less if they shut it off within 15-30 mins., obviously. You can't blame anyone for parking over a gas shut-off if there is a parking stall marked there. If there was not a stall there, it should have been marked NO PARKING 24/7/365.
Link to OWH story:
http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/as-gas- ... 7445e.html

S33 wrote: Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...

Maybe today, but the gas line was probably 100+ years old.

jessep28 wrote:

S33 wrote: Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...

Maybe today, but the gas line was probably 100+ years old.

But the gas service line was replaced in 2009...according to the article. It would have been brought up to standards then. It was probably replaced several times throughout the past 100 years or whenever gas service was brought into the OM. Federal law says the shut-offs are supposed to be checked every year....doubt if that happens though.

jessep28 wrote:

S33 wrote: Isn't it against code to have a natural gas shutoff below a parking space? I thought you were suppose to have unimpeded access...

Maybe today, but the gas line was probably 100+ years old.

My point is that is doesn't have to be a parking space

Chances look good for repairing M's Pub building without tearing down north wall, experts hired by owners say

“Generally, everything looks optimistic,” Nicholas Bonham-Carter, who with Mark Mercer runs Mercer Management, said on Monday.
That includes the prospects of saving the building without having to tear down its north wall, he said.
“The engineer did not believe that it is in dangerously bad shape,” Bonham-Carter said. “He said the north wall is not in danger of collapsing, but he did say it needs some bracing for repairs.”

Great news...

Coyote wrote:Great news...

Absolutely! Great that the character of such a prominent corner in the Old Market may be preserved!

Nouvelle Eve owner promises store will be back

"When we see that Nouvelle Eve lady in the window, I think she's saying, 'We'll be back." Cull said. "She's saying, 'Don't worry, I got you.'"

Saw this photo on the Forgotten Omaha FP page...



It shows how the M's building used to extend all the way north to the alley with 4 more bays just like the ones that are still standing. They must have lost the north bays in a fire that occurred in the 30s or 40s, as mentioned in some news reports. Wish they could rebuild it back to this! (not too likely though) Looks like it has always had those vines growing on the canopies.

Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.

skinzfan23 wrote:Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.

I sure hope they put it back that way when they rebuild...

I totally agree with the Ghost Town reference... Our gallery's traffic is about half of what it should be...

'It's a ghost town': Old Market businesses lament lack of customers after M's Pub fire

Paige Yowell / World-Herald staff writer wrote:“The whole Old Market isn’t closed. And a lot of people think that,” Hoover said. “I’ve had a lot of people approach me and say, ‘Oh, my gosh, is there anything open down there?’ ”

I can't believe that the street is closed. Can we get a move on it and at the very least open the street back up.

skinzfan23 wrote:I can't believe that the street is closed. Can we get a move on it and at the very least open the street back up.

from the article

Omaha City Planning Superintendent Jay Davis said he has no definitive timeline on when the intersection might open.
The 11th and Howard intersection is closed now, Davis said, because it’s uncertain whether the M’s Pub building is structurally sound. If the building were to collapse, Davis doesn’t want people nearby.
The city is waiting on a report from structural engineers hired by Mercer Management to decide how to move forward — whether to shore up the building, if necessary, or to demolish part of it.
“If I had my way about it, it’d be done this afternoon,” Davis said of a decision on the building and a reopening of the intersection.

skinzfan23 wrote:Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.

I'm looking for an old photo showing the M's building during, or right after, the 1930s-1940s fire, but so far have not found anything. There are a ton of fire photos in the John Savage collection on the Durham Museum website, but so far, nothing on that one. It must have been pretty substantial since the north half of the building had to be demo'd. Also, it's pretty sobering after looking through hundreds of fire photos to see how many buildings downtown have had fires. The Millard Hotel fire at 13th and Douglas was an especially bad one with several fire fighter's lives lost.

GetUrban wrote:

skinzfan23 wrote:Thanks for sharing...I had no idea the building went all the way to the alley.

I'm looking for an old photo showing the M's building during, or right after, the 1930s-1940s fire, but so far have not found anything. There are a ton of fire photos in the John Savage collection on the Durham Museum website, but so far, nothing on that one. It must have been pretty substantial since the north half of the building had to be demo'd. Also, it's pretty sobering after looking through hundreds of fire photos to see how many buildings downtown have had fires. The Millard Hotel fire at 13th and Douglas was an especially bad one with several fire fighter's lives lost.

Can you post some pictures in the pictures & videos section GetUrban?

It is really sad but it would have been better for the old market if the building had come down. There would be a flat lot there right now. The old market would be "open" again. The owners of M's must really consider their neighbors as they move forward. Sure a top to bottom historically accurate restoration would be awesome, but not if it takes 5 years.

I doubt if the lot would be flat by now....my guess is that they would still be investigating the building and wouldn't have demolished it that soon. I for one, would love to wait a little longer to see the current building rehabbed, and it sounds like the owners don't want it to drag out either.

Two post in one day! I really like outside the box thinking. Two thoughts that I have had:

The city should make the parking building next to Roja's free. With a little promotion it would greatly help the Old Market stay open.

Second, M's should look at the old "O" building. They literally could clean it up and open. I'm sure the owners would love to sign a nice
3 year lease there.

swgiust wrote:It is really sad but it would have been better for the old market if the building had come down. There would be a flat lot there right now. The old market would be "open" again. The owners of M's must really consider their neighbors as they move forward. .

Well the owners of M's aren't the owners of the building. M's was a tenant.