UNO Maverick Athletics

Metro area and region sports discussion

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Postby joeglow » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:19 am

Big E wrote:yet they didn't make even a remotely half-assed attempt to include football or wrestling.  Their actions prior to cutting football and wrestling showed no signs of real effort to make anything work, and their stance since seems to ignore the budget problems that they claim forced their hand.  It makes zero sense.


Ahhh.  People infer based on what you write and you get upset and call them names.  Big E infers what the someone else thinks/believes and it is cool.  Glad to have straightened that out.

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Postby Big E » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:39 am

joeglow wrote:
Big E wrote:yet they didn't make even a remotely half-assed attempt to include football or wrestling.  Their actions prior to cutting football and wrestling showed no signs of real effort to make anything work, and their stance since seems to ignore the budget problems that they claim forced their hand.  It makes zero sense.


Ahhh.  People infer based on what you write and you get upset and call them names.  Big E infers what the someone else thinks/believes and it is cool.  Glad to have straightened that out.


Again, more of your schtick.

What did I infer?

Show me the effort they made.  It sure as heck wasn't talking to their boosters, students, staff, or public.  Any talks with potential corporate sponsors?  Was there an attempt to reach out to the booster club that cut ties 5 or 6 years ago?  Did Sokol get a phone call?  As someone else said on this thread, it looks like they hired consultants to back up the decision they had already made.

Perhaps the budget was too far gone from the debacle under the prior administration.  I could buy that, but they didn't make that claim.  Perhaps D1-AA is, in fact, a pipe dream with no support.  Crunch the numbers and show me.  While you're doing that, explain to me how you managed to make hockey work from scratch in your bankrupt athletic department, when UNL has no way of doing it without an $80 million birthday card from a rich uncle like Penn State did.

Had they gone through ANY of these motions I'd change my tune, but until someone can show me where that happened I stand by it.

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Postby joeglow » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:11 pm

Big E wrote:
joeglow wrote:
Big E wrote:yet they didn't make even a remotely half-assed attempt to include football or wrestling.  Their actions prior to cutting football and wrestling showed no signs of real effort to make anything work, and their stance since seems to ignore the budget problems that they claim forced their hand.  It makes zero sense.


Ahhh.  People infer based on what you write and you get upset and call them names.  Big E infers what the someone else thinks/believes and it is cool.  Glad to have straightened that out.


Again, more of your schtick.

What did I infer?

Show me the effort they made.  It sure as heck wasn't talking to their boosters, students, staff, or public.  Any talks with potential corporate sponsors?  Was there an attempt to reach out to the booster club that cut ties 5 or 6 years ago?  Did Sokol get a phone call?  As someone else said on this thread, it looks like they hired consultants to back up the decision they had already made.

Perhaps the budget was too far gone from the debacle under the prior administration.  I could buy that, but they didn't make that claim.  Perhaps D1-AA is, in fact, a pipe dream with no support.  Crunch the numbers and show me.  While you're doing that, explain to me how you managed to make hockey work from scratch in your bankrupt athletic department, when UNL has no way of doing it without an $80 million birthday card from a rich uncle like Penn State did.

Had they gone through ANY of these motions I'd change my tune, but until someone can show me where that happened I stand by it.


Since you care so much, file a freedom of information request.

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Postby riceweb » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:30 pm

Big E wrote:Had they gone through ANY of these motions I'd change my tune, but until someone can show me where that happened I stand by it.


This is important to me, too. I don't feel that they did an adequate job of providing an opportunity for the community to respond. If they had, they probably would have encountered stiff resistance without much fiscal help, but at least they could have said that they approached the public with their options.

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Postby HskrFanMike » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:08 pm

Big E wrote:Show me the effort they made.  It sure as heck wasn't talking to their boosters, students, staff, or public.  Any talks with potential corporate sponsors?

The CEO for one Fortune 500 company in Omaha was a member of the committee looking at this, even before Trev Alberts got involved in the discussion.  I don't know who the others were, but I assume they were other members of Omaha's corporate community.

I'm pretty sure that Omaha's power brokers were involved and drove this decision.  They may not have said "kill football/wrestling"...but they set the foundation that led to that decision.  And they signed off on it.
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Postby nebugeater » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:16 pm

Big E I get your point,  I really do and tend to agree with most of it.  There is one part most of will never really know though and that is how hard they looked at keeping one or both of the programs that were cut.  The final result that ended up in announcement of a cut seemed rather to the point but honestly we will never know if there was no effort or an all out effort to keep the programs.  Probably wasn't all out but my guess is it wasn't throw in the towel from the start either.


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riceweb wrote:I tend to agree with joeglow, especially since the football facilities, also, were inadequate, and there would have been facilities expenses associated with the football program as well. Even if they rented out TD Ameritrade, there's a significant cost associated that they wouldn't incur playing at their nearly free at Caniglia Field.


Had I said anything even remotely close to that I'd agree, as well.

Plus, they don't currently have the money for the new basketball/soccer/baseball/hockey facilities. They're on the medium-range plan, and they'll require significant donations to make them work.


This is kind of my point (although I do look forward to others telling me what my point actually is).  They've laid out some kind of roadmap, yet they didn't make even a remotely half-assed attempt to include football or wrestling.  Their actions prior to cutting football and wrestling showed no signs of real effort to make anything work, and their stance since seems to ignore the budget problems that they claim forced their hand.  It makes zero sense.
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Postby OmahaJaysCU » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:12 am

I was going to mention this in the Werner Park thread but figured this would be more appropriate.  

UNO needs to pick a logo and stick with it.  If they want to use the new O logo then they need to get rid of the Maverick head and the other "Miami" O.  The advertisement for the baseball game has the new logo with the players sporting the old O.  Center ice at the Qwest has the Maverick head.  If they want to create a brand name thats easy to identify they need to pick something and stick with it.  Just my two cents.

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Postby Brad » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:15 am

OmahaJaysCU wrote:I was going to mention this in the Werner Park thread but figured this would be more appropriate.  

UNO needs to pick a logo and stick with it.  If they want to use the new O logo then they need to get rid of the Maverick head and the other "Miami" O.  The advertisement for the baseball game has the new logo with the players sporting the old O.  Center ice at the Qwest has the Maverick head.  If they want to create a brand name thats easy to identify they need to pick something and stick with it.  Just my two cents.


I think by next fall they will have everything switched over to the new O/Bull.

On a side note... I hate the new Bull.  The O looks good!

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Postby Coyote » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:50 pm

[font=Georgia]Former wrestling program ‘close’ to moving to Maryville
Denny: 'I'll start a fire somewhere else.'[/font]


Patrick Cooley Sports Editor UNO Gateway wrote:Former members of the UNO wrestling program are close to finalizing plans to start a new wrestling program at Maryville University, a Division II school located in suburban St. Louis, according to former head coach Mike Denney. Denney and the Maverick wrestlers have been making trips to Maryville to see the campus and meet with University officials.

Despite the hassles of trying to complete what Denney claims would be the first movement of an entire program in NCAA history, the coach has found a true home in Maryville. "For the last couple of years we've felt like we weren't valued [at UNO]," he said. "It's nice to have people who are embracing us. They are impressed with our guys."

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Postby iamjacobm » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:29 pm

It is official now.

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Postby Big E » Sun May 01, 2011 12:45 pm

http://thepigskindoctors.com/2010/04/te ... l-stadium/

Allen High School, located in a growing suburb of Dallas, has approved the construction of a new stadium to house their football team that will break ground next month. The price tag is a whopping $60,000,000 and comes at a time when most school districts are slashing budgets just to keep their doors open.

...

The new stadium will feature:
Video Scoreboard
Two level press box with film deck and Observation deck
Home side reserved seating with seat backs
1,5000 additional parking spaces with 4,500 total parking spaces
18,000 seat Stadium with upper deck seating including:
5,000 reserved seating,
2,700 General Admission
4,000 Students
5,300 Visitor
1,000 Band


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/sports ... cnn?hpt=T2
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Postby iamjacobm » Sun May 01, 2011 12:55 pm

Maybe UNO's football program can take a page out of the wrestling programs book and move to find support.  You could probably also say that high school's attendance per game probably triples UNO's.

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Postby cp jay 07 » Tue May 03, 2011 11:31 am

Just saw this trailer for the new UNO documentary. Looks pretty good.

http://vimeo.com/23160660

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Postby Brad » Tue May 03, 2011 12:20 pm

cp jay 07 wrote:Just saw this trailer for the new UNO documentary. Looks pretty good.

http://vimeo.com/23160660


Wow!  Is that for real?  It seems way too high quality and way too good to be a spoof.
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Postby cp jay 07 » Tue May 03, 2011 12:59 pm

Brad wrote:
cp jay 07 wrote:Just saw this trailer for the new UNO documentary. Looks pretty good.

http://vimeo.com/23160660


Wow!  Is that for real?  It seems way too high quality and way too good to be a spoof.


Its real, I believe a former wrestler is producing it. Also expect an ESPN Outside the Lines segment soon. I'm sure ESPN would love to get back at Trev for trashing them on his way out.

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Postby iamjacobm » Sun May 08, 2011 5:22 pm


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Postby Uffda » Sun May 08, 2011 10:13 pm

I didnt watch the video but read the article... I wonder how long Trev will stay around.... my guess his days are numbered

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Postby joeglow » Sun May 08, 2011 10:33 pm

Uffda wrote:I didnt watch the video but read the article... I wonder how long Trev will stay around.... my guess his days are numbered


Try as I may, I cannot follow the article:

It states:

"Forgetting about the revenue provided by athletes such as Dennis is just one of the economic oversights, said Schwarz, an antitrust economist and partner at OSKR, a firm in Emeryville, Calif., that specializes in economic analysis and expert witness testimony. Schwarz has conducted several studies of college sports finances and accounting."

This is followed with:

"Where Alberts seems to be making his argument is by not counting the $1.2 million that the football program receives from student fees and direct funds from the university, according to the NCAA report."

Then, 4 or 5 paragraphs later, it states:

"In its own accounting, the NCAA will subtract student fees and university funds, along with other government support, to determine whether programs can generate enough revenue on their own to cover their expenses, which is rare even among Division I schools."

Finally, it states:

"UNO had 36 football scholarships divided among 77 of the 121 football players from this past season, and players such as Davis were paying the more expensive out-of-state tuition. The university counts the cost of athletic scholarships as an expense against the football department, but it doesn't count the tuition that student-athletes pay as revenue. If it did, Schwarz said the football program could count at least an additional $700,000 in revenue, and for wrestling it would be at least $200,000."

Now, the more I think about this, the less sense it makes.  Are they saying 100% of the education cost is included in the expenses of the athletic department?  It sounds like they are not, as they make it a point to list the number of scholarship players.  If they are not, then I fail to see how tuition and fees should be included.  A university is essentially a not-for-profit entity.  In short, the expenses for a student are relatively close to the revenues.  Thus, to include the tuition and NOT the expenses is not accurate.  Finally, I find it odd that the NCAA does the accounting the wrong way, per the individual cited.

All in all, a VERY poorly written article that really explains NOTHING.  Until something a little better written comes out, I fail to see fallout except from those whose mind was made up before the article.


Last of all, I find it odd that two of the most vocal people I have hear blast Alberts are 2 of biggest D bags I have met.  I called about unprofessional behavior I witnessed from a Deeb Realtor and tried to be nice and call their office to let them know.  I got a call back from Van Deeb himself who proceeded to rip into me.  I calmly explained to him that I was only trying to do them a favor and I would be more than happy to take my experience to other parties.  He suddenly calmed down, but was still a dlck.

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Postby Greg S » Sun May 08, 2011 10:33 pm

I'm not sure this has any impact on Trev at all, or do you mean he goes to Lincoln when TO retires?

Interesting how the World Herald did not cover this at all (UNO being on Outside the Lines).

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Postby OmahaBen » Mon May 09, 2011 10:06 am

joeglow wrote:
Uffda wrote:I didnt watch the video but read the article... I wonder how long Trev will stay around.... my guess his days are numbered

Now, the more I think about this, the less sense it makes.  Are they saying 100% of the education cost is included in the expenses of the athletic department?  It sounds like they are not, as they make it a point to list the number of scholarship players.  If they are not, then I fail to see how tuition and fees should be included.  A university is essentially a not-for-profit entity.  In short, the expenses for a student are relatively close to the revenues.  Thus, to include the tuition and NOT the expenses is not accurate.  Finally, I find it odd that the NCAA does the accounting the wrong way, per the individual cited.


Yeah, they definitely had some fun with the numbers. First they tried to exclude athletic scholarship costs, which are universally charged to athletic departments (to the extent it's money shuffling within an organization, that's kinda true, but it makes sense to charge the giveaways to the department giving it away). Then they tried to credit athletic departments for the tuition money they bring in, ignoring that whole actual educational component of schools.

If they're arguing that this is bad accounting, that's a wholly separate issue involving any NCAA school which awards an athletic scholarship. Seems a bit disingenuous to blame UNO for that.

I really doubt wrestling made a profit; and if it did, then those guys need to become professional fund raisers, not wrestling coaches.

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Postby Big E » Tue May 10, 2011 10:44 am

Shatel's take:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110509/SPORTS/705099801

Also, why wasn’t UNO’s $1.4 million moving fee to Division I — reported in Sunday’s World-Herald — mentioned by UNO before?

Alberts and Christensen missed an opportunity here. The ESPN report didn’t hurt them as much as the image now of deleted emails and a lack of transparency. They could have put this thing to bed, once and for all. Now it looks as if they’re trying to hide something. Are they?
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Postby HskrFanMike » Tue May 10, 2011 1:05 pm

OmahaBen wrote:
joeglow wrote:
Uffda wrote:I didnt watch the video but read the article... I wonder how long Trev will stay around.... my guess his days are numbered

Now, the more I think about this, the less sense it makes.  Are they saying 100% of the education cost is included in the expenses of the athletic department?  It sounds like they are not, as they make it a point to list the number of scholarship players.  If they are not, then I fail to see how tuition and fees should be included.  A university is essentially a not-for-profit entity.  In short, the expenses for a student are relatively close to the revenues.  Thus, to include the tuition and NOT the expenses is not accurate.  Finally, I find it odd that the NCAA does the accounting the wrong way, per the individual cited.


Yeah, they definitely had some fun with the numbers. First they tried to exclude athletic scholarship costs, which are universally charged to athletic departments (to the extent it's money shuffling within an organization, that's kinda true, but it makes sense to charge the giveaways to the department giving it away). Then they tried to credit athletic departments for the tuition money they bring in, ignoring that whole actual educational component of schools.

If they're arguing that this is bad accounting, that's a wholly separate issue involving any NCAA school which awards an athletic scholarship. Seems a bit disingenuous to blame UNO for that.

I really doubt wrestling made a profit; and if it did, then those guys need to become professional fund raisers, not wrestling coaches.

That's blatantly bad accounting on the part of ESPN, as they assume there is no incremental cost to the university to educate 120 football players.  It's almost laughable that ESPN tried to charge that UNO was playing with the numbers.

As for Trev's viability, the idea that Trev Alberts is on "thin ice" or his days are numbered are absurd.  Other than the wrestling and UNO football community, nobody found the ESPN story compelling in the least.

And let's make one thing completely clear.  The wrestling and football supporters have tried to portray this as a decision by Trev Alberts, instigated by Trev Alberts as part of a vendetta. Alberts was working on a directive handed him by chancellor John Christensen and the University president, J.B. Millken.  A committee of Omaha-area CEO's was involved in this, advising and reviewing the process.

Who's going to fire Alberts?

Alberts made a couple of mistakes along the way - namely in how he informed Mike Denney of the end of the wrestling program. But when all is said and done, I think Trev Alberts is much more likely to accept a bigger and better job as an athletic director than be terminated.  Is that Nebraska-Lincoln? We'll see.  I don't see Tom Osborne leaving anytime soon as long as his health holds.
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Postby Big E » Tue May 10, 2011 3:03 pm

FWIW, according to this article:

http://www.action3news.com/story/145963 ... ons-at-uno

ESPN hired a third party ("OSKR from California") to dissect the numbers.  I could not find a direct link from any articles to the company, but I believe this is who they are referring to:

http://www.oskr.com/index.html

I missed the reference to a third party firm in any previous articles.  (Not saying it wasn't there - I just didn't catch it until now.)

What motivation OSKR would have to monkey with the numbers is lost on me.
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Postby OmahaBen » Tue May 10, 2011 3:36 pm

Big E wrote:ESPN hired a third party
...
What motivation OSKR would have to monkey with the numbers is lost on me.


You answered your own question.

More fully, this is how hired experts work. ESPn wanted a story, and OSKR worked the numbers to give them one. There's lies, darn lies, and statistics. You can make the numbers say anything you want with the right expert and right slant on those numbers.

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Postby iamjacobm » Tue May 10, 2011 9:28 pm

You can make numbers say anything.

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Postby Big E » Wed May 11, 2011 1:02 am

OmahaBen wrote:
Big E wrote:ESPN hired a third party
...
What motivation OSKR would have to monkey with the numbers is lost on me.


You answered your own question.

More fully, this is how hired experts work. ESPn wanted a story, and OSKR worked the numbers to give them one. There's lies, darn lies, and statistics. You can make the numbers say anything you want with the right expert and right slant on those numbers.


So we are back to "the numbers that support the side I agree with are unassailable gospel and the numbers that support the side I disagree with are fabricated shizzle".

Noted.
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Postby joeglow » Wed May 11, 2011 8:01 am

Big E wrote:
OmahaBen wrote:
Big E wrote:ESPN hired a third party
...
What motivation OSKR would have to monkey with the numbers is lost on me.


You answered your own question.

More fully, this is how hired experts work. ESPn wanted a story, and OSKR worked the numbers to give them one. There's lies, darn lies, and statistics. You can make the numbers say anything you want with the right expert and right slant on those numbers.


So we are back to "the numbers that support the side I agree with are unassailable gospel and the numbers that support the side I disagree with are fabricated shizzle".

Noted.


I personally am not saying that.  I am saying that, as ESPN laid out the numbers, they really make no sense whatsoever.  Including the "value" of tuition payments made without including an offset for the cost of providing what is received seems to be a plss poor job of matching (something the article claims UNO wasn't doing).

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Postby HskrFanMike » Wed May 11, 2011 12:40 pm

If I was UNO, I'd release the numbers that UNO used to compute a $1.3 million dollar loss for football.  The wrestlers and football boosters don't believe it, so let them pick it apart.  If you are sure your numbers are solid, then  you have nothing to fear.  If you don't release the numbers, then people are going to keep on complaining and protesting.

But in the end, it'll show that ESPN's report was a hatchet job.
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Postby iamjacobm » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:54 pm

Oral Roberts out of the Summit League knocked Oklahoma out of the NCAA tournament today.  It looks like there is a little bit of talent in UNO's new league.

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Postby iamjacobm » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:59 pm

iamjacobm wrote:Oral Roberts out of the Summit League knocked Oklahoma out of the NCAA tournament today.  It looks like there is a little bit of talent in UNO's new league.


Add TCU to Oral Roberts list of victims.

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Postby Coyote » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:02 pm

[font=Georgia]Next goal for UNO is new on-campus arena, Alberts says[/font]

Kearney Hub wrote:“That’s really what has to be next for us,” Alberts said. “We’ve worked through that strategic vision of the athletic department in general, and now for us to be competitive in all of our sports, we need to take a hard look at the existing facilities we already have, and also existing community assets that we can use on an interim basis.

the A.D. said, the new reality for UNO is that the school also has to think about how an on-campus facility could best serve the needs of Mavs basketball and volleyball at the Division I level.

“When you are a founding member of a new conference like this — certainly the other five institutions have made a commitment to winning at the highest levels,” Alberts said. “We’re going to make a similar commitment and work very hard to have the kind of facilities that Coach Blais and our students need to be successful.”

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Postby iamjacobm » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:40 pm

Oakland isn't bad neither are the Dakota schools, but ORU was far and away the premier athletic program in the conference.  This is a big loss.

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Postby skinzfan23 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:53 pm

UNO won its first game as a Division I team....100-68.

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Postby cp jay 07 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:01 am

skinzfan23 wrote:UNO won its first game as a Division I team....100-68.


Of course it was against an NAIA team. Just saying.

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Postby iamjacobm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:10 pm

UNO's game tonight is on ESPN3.

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Postby iamjacobm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:04 pm

iamjacobm wrote:UNO's game tonight is on ESPN3.


They lost to UMKC by only 3.  UNO lead for most the game tough loss.

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Postby Coyote » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:08 pm

Strange seeing "Neb.-Omaha" on EPSN's Bottom Line.
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Postby iamjacobm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:14 pm

Coyote wrote:Strange seeing "Neb.-Omaha" on EPSN's Bottom Line.


Agreed!  ESPN had them as NEOM in their score board which looks a bit awkward.

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Postby Brad » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:19 pm

iamjacobm wrote:ESPN had them as NEOM in their score board which looks a bit awkward.


:lafcry:  :lafcry:  :lafcry: At least they were on TV!
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