UNO Maverick Athletics

[Big E]

Holy schnikeys...   as of 10:55 Sunday PM it was on the front page side-column on SI.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/footba ... index.html

Article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/f ... index.html

[mjay]

I think this is just a really messy situation that might have been rushed into, thus bringing more problems.  After learning Trev took over as AD for UNO, I immediately saw this as a message by the university.  They wanted to make an internal change to bring about more support from the community in order to move the athletic program further.  Ok, I get it.  He's a big name that could bring about a metamorphosis that UNO is looking for in order for it to be a respected metropolitan university.  However, I thought this metamorphosis would be within the next 8-10 years.  Never did I see this change happening so abruptly.  I thought that maybe they would undergo a name change (i.e. University of Omaha) to signify a major image change before they made the switch.  Maybe then would people/coaches/players in the Athletic Department understand that the University is serious about going to D1 and communicate more with the appropriate people to make the change a smooth one for all parties involved.  It seems like it was just a rushed, uninformative discommunication between the Athletic Department and the Football and Wrestling sports programs.  It really is a shame to see such disunity and sadness in a time where the University should be making great strides together.  This is not the way a University gains the respect of a community.  If anything, it might just do the opposite.  Don't get me wrong, I love that UNO is going D1, I just believe with more time, it could have been done with more class and unity.  IMO, we didn't need to jump the gun with the Summit League.  Changes in conferences happen all the time.  Patience, patience, patience.


A wise man once said: "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time."

[joeglow]

The problem is you have donors willing to support the program and they spend $1 million on a |expletive| scoreboard.  A one million dollar donation should be an endowment at a program like that.

There are literally hundreds of programs across the country with a smaller alumni base, smaller markets, and less interest playing under the exact same set of rules that manage to make this work.  If you can build a hockey program from scratch in a decade, you can make 1-AA work after a hundred |expletive| years.

Honestly, this looks to me a lot like the Royals not playing downtown: "Well, here's this great opportunity to really make a go of it, but we're going to tuck our sack back and put a little rouge on because no one has ever showed us the spreadsheet formula to make it work."

Go make it work.  Also accept the fact that D1-AA UNO football at Caniglia is an entirely different beast than D2 UNO football at TD Amertirade.

Serving beer.

I absolutely refuse to accept that the Omaha market could not nor would not support this program at the 1-AA level.

Interesting conversation with Alberts on the radio this morning.  They estimated with the move they would have an annual cost of $500,000 for the wrestling department in D1.  Add in the additional sports they are required to add for the Summit league and the women's sports needed to be added for Title IX compliance and you are well into the millions of dollars.  Additionally, the department currently uses 3.1 million of tax dollars annually and this WILL shrink over time as university budgets shrink.  Frankly, listening to the actual finances (and not just the emotions) I can see why it went down the way it did.  

And I don't buy the excuse "well, someone ELSE should donate the money.  People all over the country do it."  How much longer until someone says Buffett should pay for it.

[NovakOmaha]

Holy schnikeys...   as of 10:55 Sunday PM it was on the front page side-column on SI.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/footba ... index.html

Article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/f ... index.html

They picked up the OWH story off the AP.

[Big E]

And I don't buy the excuse "well, someone ELSE should donate the money.  People all over the country do it."  How much longer until someone says Buffett should pay for it.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find very many athletic departments in the US that aren't funded by taxpayers or donors.

Had UNO said something along the lines of: "We want to go to 1-AA for football and 1-A for everything else, but it is going to take X dollars to get there - or we may have to drop football and wrestling," there would have been an outpouring of support.  It's called a fundraiser, and it happens all the time in collegiate athletics.

[Big E]

Holy schnikeys...   as of 10:55 Sunday PM it was on the front page side-column on SI.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/footba ... index.html

Article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/f ... index.html

They picked up the OWH story off the AP.

Obviously.  I'm surprised they ran it on the main page of SI.com.

[joeglow]

All said and done, I think we have shown that there are at least a handful of people on this forum alone who are capable of running an athletic department.

That said, I am more excited to see what this does for UNO.  However, I am as disappointed as the next person that there will no longer be college football in Omaha.

[Brad]

However, I am as disappointed as the next person that there will no longer be college football in Omaha.

That's that part I don't understand...  This is a Football Crazy town, and with all the negative stories about the Nighthawks, there could be ZERO football here!

[Big E]

All said and done, I think we have shown that there are at least a handful of people on this forum alone who are capable of running an athletic department.

And there are at least a handful of people that can't think outside of the box to save their lives.

All these plans and potential money available for scoreboards and near-campus sports complexes, yet if we don't drop football we are going to shut the department down?

I'm not buying it.

I'm also not buying the Title IX argument.  If anyone is using that as a crutch, I want an explanation for how dropping men's wrestling and adding two other men's sports is accomplishing anything.

Side note on Title IX: I've always wondered why the NCAA doesn't allow cheerleading and dance as a sanctioned scholarship "sport" to offset Title IX requirements.  Without an exemption for football scholarships (which is the main flaw with Title IX), it seems like an easy way to make the grade, especially considering most of these schools already have the squads competing in some form.  More of that outside-the-box thinking, I suppose.

This is a Football Crazy town, and with all the negative stories about the Nighthawks, there could be ZERO football here!

Bing-effing-o.  People claim UNO can only pull 4000 to non-UNK games at Caniglia.  They're right, but as I said before, that's playing D2 on campus with no beer.  Playing 1-AA at Ameritrade with beer is going to draw before the Nighthawks.

[Omababe]

However, I am as disappointed as the next person that there will no longer be college football in Omaha.

So, tell me? Do any of the other schools in this so-called "Summit" league do football? If so, how do they do it?

Does football always need to be directly cost-effective? Are these bean-counters not considering the very real but hard to quantify value to morale and school spirit?

Or maybe is the University system as a whole afraid of losing Lincoln attendance if UNO moves up to the high level football division?

[NovakOmaha]

Holy schnikeys...   as of 10:55 Sunday PM it was on the front page side-column on SI.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/footba ... index.html

Article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/f ... index.html

They picked up the OWH story off the AP.

Obviously.  I'm surprised they ran it on the main page of SI.com.

Slow news day  ;)

[iamjacobm]

I think the argument of UNL not wanting to lose fans to UNO is crazy.  Tell me who will give up their season tickets for the Huskers for Mavs season tickets, which by the way would still be playing at a lower level than 120 other programs.

If UNO had kept football they would of had to add at least two women's sports alone to offset the added costs/scholarships.  What incentive is there to keep your biggest money loser on board and add two more non revenue sports?

Wrestling I think could of been saved with a little more creativity apparently the wrestling team gets over $200,000 of its budget donated at this point anyways and I am sure more would come out of the woodwork if given the chance to be D1.

As with adding soccer and Golf the school wants to be as much a member in their new conference as possible so I understand that plus those two sports have relatively low over head and smaller scholarship numbers.  Adding those two will still be a better financial situation than keeping football.

[nebugeater]

From what I have read / heard elsewhere soccer and Golf are required to be members of the league.  The decision to add these wasn't there if they wanted to join this league.  Each league member much field a team in each sanctioned sport that the league has.  UNO's option was to join or not join but if they want to join they have to add these sports but the decision to drop is all UNO's based on the factors discussed at length.

All said and done, I think we have shown that there are at least a handful of people on this forum alone who are capable of running an athletic department.

And there are at least a handful of people that can't think outside of the box to save their lives.

All these plans and potential money available for scoreboards and near-campus sports complexes, yet if we don't drop football we are going to shut the department down?

I'm not buying it.

I'm also not buying the Title IX argument.  If anyone is using that as a crutch, I want an explanation for how dropping men's wrestling and adding two other men's sports is accomplishing anything.

Side note on Title IX: I've always wondered why the NCAA doesn't allow cheerleading and dance as a sanctioned scholarship "sport" to offset Title IX requirements.  Without an exemption for football scholarships (which is the main flaw with Title IX), it seems like an easy way to make the grade, especially considering most of these schools already have the squads competing in some form.  More of that outside-the-box thinking, I suppose.

This is a Football Crazy town, and with all the negative stories about the Nighthawks, there could be ZERO football here!

Bing-effing-o.  People claim UNO can only pull 4000 to non-UNK games at Caniglia.  They're right, but as I said before, that's playing D2 on campus with no beer.  Playing 1-AA at Ameritrade with beer is going to draw before the Nighthawks.

[Mr.Nuke]

From what I have read / heard elsewhere soccer and Golf are required to be members of the league.  The decision to add these wasn't there if they wanted to join this league.  Each league member much field a team in each sanctioned sport that the league has.  UNO's option was to join or not join but if they want to join they have to add these sports but the decision to drop is all UNO's based on the factors discussed at length.

I have a feeling this is the case as well, but if it is Trev failed miserably at explaining that aspect yesterday.

[joeglow]

So, tell me? Do any of the other schools in this so-called "Summit" league do football? If so, how do they do it?

No.  They announced in 2010 that they would look at adding football, but do not have it.

Does football always need to be directly cost-effective? Are these bean-counters not considering the very real but hard to quantify value to morale and school spirit?

That SOUNDS great.  However, when you add 85 scholarship athletes and the host of full time positions required to support it, it easily gets to be into the millions of dollars.  Add to it the required to also add 85 female scholarship athletes and multiple coaches to handle the 5-8 new female sports you add and it is HUGE.  These schools can usually garner enough money from getting their |expletive| handed to them by a top D1 team to offset the football budget, but cannot make enough money to cover the cost of the additional Title IX sports.

And, I would not blame this on the bean counters.  Rather, it is an issue of universities facing budget cuts from a public already being taxed out the |expletive| every time they turn around and people tend to look at sports programs first.  UNO currently gets $3.1M in tax dollars for their athletic department.  In a time when these cuts are taking place, I don't think they would have much support in grossly increasing that amount.

Or maybe is the University system as a whole afraid of losing Lincoln attendance if UNO moves up to the high level football division?

I am sure that would be a small concern.  However, you can't even get to that point because of the cost making completely infeasible.

[joeglow]

From what I have read / heard elsewhere soccer and Golf are required to be members of the league.  The decision to add these wasn't there if they wanted to join this league.  Each league member much field a team in each sanctioned sport that the league has.  UNO's option was to join or not join but if they want to join they have to add these sports but the decision to drop is all UNO's based on the factors discussed at length.

I have a feeling this is the case as well, but if it is Trev failed miserably at explaining that aspect yesterday.

I didn't pay attention to what was covered yesterday, but that is exactly what he said on KFAB this morning.  He will be Becka's show at 6 tonight for those interested.

[HskrFanMike]

From what I have read / heard elsewhere soccer and Golf are required to be members of the league.  The decision to add these wasn't there if they wanted to join this league.  Each league member much field a team in each sanctioned sport that the league has.  UNO's option was to join or not join but if they want to join they have to add these sports but the decision to drop is all UNO's based on the factors discussed at length.

I have a feeling this is the case as well, but if it is Trev failed miserably at explaining that aspect yesterday.

I think Trev tried to explain it, but too many details get lost in the mix. This is a big complicated story.

Bottom line: UNO football has struggled in attendance ever since nearly every college football game went to television.  In the 80's and 90's, the Huskers almost always played at 1 pm, and the Mavs could play at 7 pm.  People could attend both, or listen to the Huskers on the radio then go to UNO.  Now the Husker games are on TV and all over the dial as far as schedule, and fans simply stopped going to UNO games.

The Nighthawks example doesn't apply; they never tried to schedule a home game on a Husker Saturday.

People hear "drop football and wrestling and add golf and soccer" and say, rightfully, WOW?  The devil is in the details.  Football loses over $1 million a year, and it doesn't appear there is any hope of making it work.  Golf and soccer are requirements of the new league, which appears to be a better fit for UNO.  Wrestling, while immensely successful, falls victim to gender equity and the budget.

[Big E]

I think the argument of UNL not wanting to lose fans to UNO is crazy.  Tell me who will give up their season tickets for the Huskers for Mavs season tickets

Agreed.  Makes fun conspiracy theory, though.

which by the way would still be playing at a lower level than 120 other programs.

While it's technically at a lower level of competition per NCAA rules, I'll put the top chunk of 1-AA football against most of D1 on any day.  Ask the ACC champs VaTech their opinion.  Good 1-AA football is a quality product.

If UNO had kept football they would of had to add at least two women's sports alone to offset the added costs/scholarships.  What incentive is there to keep your biggest money loser on board and add two more non revenue sports?

Don't make the assumption that 1-AA UNO would be a money loser.

Wrestling I think could of been saved with a little more creativity apparently the wrestling team gets over $200,000 of its budget donated at this point anyways and I am sure more would come out of the woodwork if given the chance to be D1.

Ditto football, particularly on the last part.

rom what I have read / heard elsewhere soccer and Golf are required to be members of the league.  The decision to add these wasn't there if they wanted to join this league.

I missed that part, so I stand corrected.  That being said, this now screams of a desperate attempt to jump to D1 at any cost, which I simply don't see as worth it.

Was there any conversation with the Missouri Valley in this at all?  Seems like the perfect fit, while the Summit looks a lot like a football equivalent hodgepodge of WAC/Sun Belt/C-USA leftovers, the catch-all for the D1 wanna-bes.

Oh well, sounds to me like it's all just pissing into the wind at this point.

[Big E]

However, when you add 85 scholarship athletes

1-A football has an 85 scholarship limit.

1-AA football is 60 (or is it 63?).

II football is 30ish.

III is no scholarships.

Just for (sort of) clarification.

[joeglow]

 That being said, this now screams of a desperate attempt to jump to D1 at any cost, which I simply don't see as worth it.

Was there any conversation with the Missouri Valley in this at all?  Seems like the perfect fit, while the Summit looks a lot like a football equivalent hodgepodge of WAC/Sun Belt/C-USA leftovers, the catch-all for the D1 wanna-bes.

Oh well, sounds to me like it's all just pissing into the wind at this point.

From what I heard, they had little, if any, chance at staying D2 due to the death of their conference and no real alternatives in the region.  Thus, they were forced with going D3 or D1.  I can understand chosing D1.

[Big E]

The Nighthawks example doesn't apply; they never tried to schedule a home game on a Husker Saturday.

And wisely so.  But let's not act like UNO couldn't at least attempt to follow the same model.

[Brad]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110314/N ... d-march-14

Big accident on Dodge Street over the weekend. Did you hear about this? The UNO wrestling team was thrown under a bus.

[Big E]

From what I heard, they had little, if any, chance at staying D2 due to the death of their conference

The MIAA?  I was under the impression it was one of the most solid D2 conferences in the country.

Are you sure you aren't thinking about the old NCC?

[Big E]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110314/N ... d-march-14

Big accident on Dodge Street over the weekend. Did you hear about this? The UNO wrestling team was thrown under a bus.

OK, I'll give him one.

One.

[joeglow]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110314/N ... d-march-14

Big accident on Dodge Street over the weekend. Did you hear about this? The UNO wrestling team was thrown under a bus.

The bigger question:  Someone actually reads that column?

[Brad]

The bigger question:  Someone actually reads that column?

I will check it out everyone once in a while.  Like today its usually when the photo on the front of omaha.com catches my eye.

[cp jay 07]

People hear "drop football and wrestling and add golf and soccer" and say, rightfully, WOW?  The devil is in the details.  Football loses over $1 million a year, and it doesn't appear there is any hope of making it work.  Golf and soccer are requirements of the new league, which appears to be a better fit for UNO.  Wrestling, while immensely successful, falls victim to gender equity and the budget.

That's a giant load of BS from Trev Pederson. NDSU and South Dakota State who both compete in the Summit league do NOT offer men's soccer and DO offer wrestling. Cutting wrestling is on Trev Pederson's personal agenda and was a total BS move by him. How can you use the conference excuse when 2 schools in the conference do not have men's soccer but do have wrestling. Also South Dakota and Southern Utah, who are both in the Summit, do not offer Men's Soccer.

I understand football, it's sad but I get had to be done. You could cut football, add golf and keep wrestling but Trev did not want it that way so he found an excuse. And then the way he did it over the phone after winning a national championship and then changing the locks on the doors was just pure and utterly classless. UNO just lost a lot of respect from a lot of people in this town and it will be that way till Trev is out. I'm glad their hockey team chocked this weekend, maybe they should be cut, their the ones losing money.

[OmahaBen]

Had UNO said something along the lines of: "We want to go to 1-AA for football and 1-A for everything else, but it is going to take X dollars to get there - or we may have to drop football and wrestling," there would have been an outpouring of support.  It's called a fundraiser, and it happens all the time in collegiate athletics.

I-A and I-AA (now FBS and FCS, respectively) are football-only distinctions. You don't take a program to 1-AA in football and 1-A in everything else, you take the program to division 1, and if you have football, decide what level at which it will be played.

All 340-some schools, from the Big Ten to the Ivy League, are Division 1.

[OmahaBen]

Was there any conversation with the Missouri Valley in this at all?

Why would the Missouri Valley want UNO? They already have an Omaha presence, and the MVC's level of competition is much higher than anything UNO will bring to the table for years if not decades. The last MVC membership change (Evansville) has been a disappointment even in the best of times. And UNO isn't even close to Evansville.

[iamjacobm]

I'm glad their hockey team chocked this weekend, maybe they should be cut, their the ones losing money.

Why would you be glad to see them lose?  And for the record hockey made money this year it is the 1st time they made money playing at Qwest, but hockey will be UNO's big ticket program.  They can create their own thing in this city that no other university can offer.  The one sport with the best earning potential for UNO is hockey.

[CapitalGuy]

I think Big E's MVC reference related to the Mavs football team playing in the MVC. Although, while we are on the subject, lets not act like MVC basketball is that much different from Summit. Both conferences put one team in the big dance. The only difference is the Summit representative is a 13 seed and the MVC representative is a 14 seed.

[Big E]

I-A and I-AA (now FBS and FCS, respectively) are football-only distinctions. You don't take a program to 1-AA in football and 1-A in everything else, you take the program to division 1, and if you have football, decide what level at which it will be played.

All 340-some schools, from the Big Ten to the Ivy League, are Division 1.

I get that.  Congratulations, though.  That might literally be the biggest nit ever picked on this site.

Why would the Missouri Valley want UNO?

Potential for 20K plus for football?  Potential exposure for Creighton v UNO twice a year at the Qwest in basketball?  Hosting a wrestling tournament at the D1 level with Iowa/Minnesota/etc?

I'm amazed at how many people on here can only operate in the right now.  We don't have a streetcar right now so it will never work so there's no point in steering towards that goal.  Those buildings over there don't have tenants right now so the obvious best use is a parking lot.  

They can create their own thing in this city that no other university can offer.  The one sport with the best earning potential for UNO is hockey.

The exact same thing could be said for UNO football.

The Omaha sports community has demonstrated a pretty exceptional level of support for amateur/collegiate sports.  UNO football is something the whole city could have embraced - always secondary to the Huskers, but 1-AA would have been the perfect place for that team in this city.

[OmahaBen]

Potential for 20K plus for football?  Potential exposure for Creighton v UNO twice a year at the Qwest in basketball?

MVC football conference isn't directly associated with the basketball conference, which means football doesn't improve the league's image at all. And even if it were directly affiliated or sponsored, it wouldn't do much.

As for UNO vs. Creighton - how does that do anything that Creighton vs. Wichita or Southern Illinois doesn't already do? Like I said, the MVC already has a presence in Omaha. Until the major re-organization happens, such as when the Big East implodes upon itself or Texas finally kills the Big XII by joining the Pac-10(or 12), the MVC won't do a thing unless someone like Butler comes calling. Even SLU's not a given addition, despite the numerous flirtations over the years between the Bilikins and the conference.

I think Big E's MVC reference related to the Mavs football team playing in the MVC. Although, while we are on the subject, lets not act like MVC basketball is that much different from Summit. Both conferences put one team in the big dance. The only difference is the Summit representative is a 13 seed and the MVC representative is a 14 seed.

Yeah, no difference at all between a league that's 8th in attendance at 7,400/game, and a league that's 21st at 2100 per game.

The Valley's in a down cycle right now, no doubt. But the Summit isn't even mid-major, it's low-major.

[iamjacobm]

They can create their own thing in this city that no other university can offer.  The one sport with the best earning potential for UNO is hockey.

The exact same thing could be said for UNO football.

The Omaha sports community has demonstrated a pretty exceptional level of support for amateur/collegiate sports.  UNO football is something the whole city could have embraced - always secondary to the Huskers, but 1-AA would have been the perfect place for that team in this city.

What two women's sports do you want them to add with the football additions?  It would be great if football could be kept, but something had to be cut.  I suppose if they chose to keep football and dropped hockey football would of probably been able to stick around.  It came down to maybe football becomes successful if we keep it and fund it, but then hockey will have to go b/c the funds aren't there for both.  Or keep a hockey program that has the 4th best attendance numbers in the nation that is ranked in the top 15 in the nation that has one of the best coaches in college hockey history now and that doesn't have to compete with any neighboring universities for fans.

If football had been kept UNO would of ended up with 11 women's sports.  UNL as 12 women's sports.  There are only two women's programs in the nation that actually make money, UCONN basketball and Hawaii volleyball(Husker Volleyball should become a revenue sport when the move to the Devaney).  
How on earth could UNO have been able to afford an athletic program nearly the size of UNL with a fraction of the resources?

Tough decisions had to be made,  I agree with half of it in that football was a money pit and needed to go.  I think wrestling could and should of been saved though.

[nebugeater]

I-A and I-AA (now FBS and FCS, respectively) are football-only distinctions. You don't take a program to 1-AA in football and 1-A in everything else, you take the program to division 1, and if you have football, decide what level at which it will be played.

All 340-some schools, from the Big Ten to the Ivy League, are Division 1.

I get that.  Congratulations, though.  That might literally be the biggest nit ever picked on this site.

Why would the Missouri Valley want UNO?

Potential for 20K plus for football?  Potential exposure for Creighton v UNO twice a year at the Qwest in basketball?  Hosting a wrestling tournament at the D1 level with Iowa/Minnesota/etc?

I'm amazed at how many people on here can only operate in the right now.  We don't have a streetcar right now so it will never work so there's no point in steering towards that goal.  Those buildings over there don't have tenants right now so the obvious best use is a parking lot.  

They can create their own thing in this city that no other university can offer.  The one sport with the best earning potential for UNO is hockey.

The exact same thing could be said for UNO football.

The Omaha sports community has demonstrated a pretty exceptional level of support for amateur/collegiate sports.  UNO football is something the whole city could have embraced - always secondary to the Huskers, but 1-AA would have been the perfect place for that team in this city.

I need to seek a Doctors help.  I agree with you E.    :;):

[nebugeater]

OK Trev just said on 1620 that adding the two men's sports WAS NOT a requirement of the league.

[Big E]

I need to seek a Doctors help.  I agree with you E.    :;):

Don't act like you don't like it.

I think what it ultimately comes down to is people are basing their opinion off of what UNO and UNO football is, while I'm looking at what it could be.  I'm not sure people get the difference between D2 and 1-AA.

You know I'm a dreamer, but my heart's of gold.

[nebugeater]

I need to seek a Doctors help.  I agree with you E.    :;):

Don't act like you don't like it.

I think what it ultimately comes down to is people are basing their opinion off of what UNO and UNO football is, while I'm looking at what it could be.  I'm not sure people get the difference between D2 and 1-AA.

You know I'm a dreamer, but my heart's of gold.

With a different decision they COULD be successful AND No where near what is in Lincoln or any other number of Top Div 1 programs.  I understand how they used the logic to get to this point, but there is some part of it that says to me the plug could be pulled at any time down the road.  TRY IT, see what happens at the top level.  MY experience with consulates (that they are hanging part of the decision on) is  for the most part is that they will feed you back the answer that you are setting out looking for in many cases.  They can be used to validate OR blame the decision on that you want to make.  May or may not be the case here but it seems to fit a bit.

[Coyote]

After listening to Trev, the reason for dropping wrestling is that he does not think they could compete at the same championship level in the Western Wrestling Conference? But starting a soccer program from scratch could compete on a DI level? I can understand the logic of wanting to compete with other Summit Conference teams in the sports they currently support - but killing a proven program that has won 6 national championships in the past 8 years. There has to be something more going on here.