Downtown Library

[Brad]

let the speculation begin....

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100917/N ... crossroads

Among the ideas proposed in a library planning report:

-Omaha's flagship library would leave its downtown location and move closer to the middle of the city, into a new building at or near Crossroads Mall at 72nd and Dodge Streets.

-The Swanson Library at 90th Street and West Dodge Road would be closed, replaced by the new Crossroads-area main library.

-The current downtown site could be sold to a developer for a high-rise building.

-A smaller branch would be built elsewhere in downtown Omaha, probably near Joslyn Art Museum.

-Two new suburban libraries would be added: one near the Village Pointe shopping center near 168th Street and West Dodge Road, the other near 180th and Q Streets

[Omababe]

It's not that old, is it?

[ricko]

I think it was built in the early 70's.  I think it's Omaha's best example of the "brutalist" style of modern architecture---I'm glad that school wasn't around long.

[NovakOmaha]

It has a great view of the mall.  I used to go there to watch mall construction.

[nebport5]

I like the idea of closing the Downtown location and reopening near Joslyn.  I don't like the idea of having to go all the way to Crossroads from Downtown.  :evil:  Crossroads would be fine for new hub location if Swanson closed and Crossroads became a lifestyle center (esp. with a transportation hub).  One out west would be good as well, but I'm not sure near Village Pointe is the greatest idea given the current traffic congestion.

[Omababe]

I think it was built in the early 70's.

I remember very distinctly going to the old library on Harney shortly after I arrived to sign up for a library card. This would have been 1975-1976-ish. It had to have opened after that.

[Historic Omaha]

I think the plaque inside (by the elevators) says 1979 (or 1978?).

Brutalism came a little bit later to Omaha - as with all architectural styles, it seems.

This library is not alone - it has Brutalist friends such as the Northwestern Bell Building (b.1980s, now OWH), the State Office Building (1980s, red brick instead of typical concrete) - and not to mention the mall with all its cast-in-place retaining walls, fountains, etc. - as a whole could be eligible for listing in the NRHP in 20 years.

A much better example of Brutalism (for Omaha and maybe Nebraska) is the Douglas Parking Garage - built by and for Farm Credit in 1970.

This architectural style is being appreciated more and more... (even beyond the followers of Louis Kahn).  There has been much heated conversation of the preservation of Boston City Hall, designed by Kallman, McKinnell and Knowles.

Although some think "historic" only applies to pre-WWII constructions - historic preservation cannot exist in a vacuum nor can it pick and choose architectural styles and/or time frames.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

The flagship library should be downtown. Period.

I completely support tearing down the current main branch and rebuilding at another location downtown, but the downtown branch should be the showcase for the entire system - not a branch surrounded by a sea of parking at a busy suburban intersection.

Totally lame.

[nativeomahan]

I think the plaque inside (by the elevators) says 1979 (or 1978?).

Brutalism came a little bit later to Omaha - as with all architectural styles, it seems.

This library is not alone - it has Brutalist friends such as the Northwestern Bell Building (b.1980s, now OWH), the State Office Building (1980s, red brick instead of typical concrete) - and not to mention the mall with all its cast-in-place retaining walls, fountains, etc. - as a whole could be eligible for listing in the NRHP in 20 years.

A much better example of Brutalism (for Omaha and maybe Nebraska) is the Douglas Parking Garage - built by and for Farm Credit in 1970.

This architectural style is being appreciated more and more... (even beyond the followers of Louis Kahn).  There has been much heated conversation of the preservation of Boston City Hall, designed by Kallman, McKinnell and Knowles.

Although some think "historic" only applies to pre-WWII constructions - historic preservation cannot exist in a vacuum nor can it pick and choose architectural styles and/or time frames.

The Boston City Hall has got to be one of the singularly ugliest buildings ever built on the face of the Earth.  It would have fit right in in the post Stalinist USSR.

[Guest]

Still too much of a cowtown, it seems, to recognize that such public facilities belong as part of a thriving downtown. If the cost of downtown real estate justifies the excuse of selling it to private investors then they should fill the central park mall back in with buildings first.

[Omababe]

The flagship library should be downtown. Period.

I agree!

I completely support tearing down the current main branch and rebuilding at another location downtown

I really don't see what's wrong with it. It's not that old and I don't exactly think that the Library has all kinds of $$$ that they need to use or lose or anything like that. How about extending hours, more programs, books, media, instead of tearing down yet another building which has a lot more years to go?

[joeglow]

The flagship library should be downtown. Period.

I completely support tearing down the current main branch and rebuilding at another location downtown, but the downtown branch should be the showcase for the entire system - not a branch surrounded by a sea of parking at a busy suburban intersection.

Totally lame.

Why?  I would agree in most cities, but we need to realize Omaha is not a "spokes and wheel" city like most others and the "center" of the city is always going to move in one direction.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

The flagship library should be downtown. Period.

I completely support tearing down the current main branch and rebuilding at another location downtown, but the downtown branch should be the showcase for the entire system - not a branch surrounded by a sea of parking at a busy suburban intersection.

Totally lame.

Why?

Read an urban design book. Or take a course in world civilization.

[justnick]

The flagship library should be downtown. Period.

I completely support tearing down the current main branch and rebuilding at another location downtown, but the downtown branch should be the showcase for the entire system - not a branch surrounded by a sea of parking at a busy suburban intersection.

Totally lame.

Why?

Read an urban design book. Or take a course in world civilization.

[joeglow]

The flagship library should be downtown. Period.

I completely support tearing down the current main branch and rebuilding at another location downtown, but the downtown branch should be the showcase for the entire system - not a branch surrounded by a sea of parking at a busy suburban intersection.

Totally lame.

Why?

Read an urban design book. Or take a course in world civilization.

Wow, nothing substantive and a jircle all at once...

[icejammer]

Wow, nothing substantive and a jircle all at once...

Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?

[joeglow]

Wow, nothing substantive and a jircle all at once...

Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?

Really?  I explained that I would agree with the position in most cities, as they tend to be a "spoke & wheel" layout with the city expanding in all four directions.  However, considering that we are hemmed in by the river on the East, we are primarily expanding in one direction.  Thus, I would think you would want a central resource like the main library to be in a more central location.  Thus, PLEASE tell me how I offered nothing substantive.  PLEASE tell me how I did not give my reason for why I think it would make sense to me for it to be at 72nd & Dodge.  PLEASE show me where I was given an explanation as to why it logistically makes sense downtown beyond "I want it downtown."

[Big E]

Thus, I would think you would a central resource like the main library to be in a more central location.

Because there isn't nor ever will be a "central location" in Omaha if we continue to follow the current "plan" (term used extremely loosely).  Every 20 years or so we'll have to bring out the bulldozer to redefine where the center of town is to relocate central resources there.

I grew up at 132nd & Dodge with it's four-way stop sign and corn fields on three sides.  Following the "plan", the library, TD Ameritrade Park, and the pedestrian bridge should have been built over the remains of Boys Town a decade ago.

Geography dictates Omaha will never be a spoke and wheel arrangement, but that doesn't make the next logical step a development free for all.

[joeglow]

Because there isn't nor ever will be a "central location" in Omaha if we continue to follow the current "plan" (term used extremely loosely).  Every 20 years or so we'll have to bring out the bulldozer to redefine where the center of town is to relocate central resources there.

I agree if you are using this as an argument to oppose incurring costs to move it every 10-20 years.  However, if the decision is already being made to bulldoze the property for independent reasons, then it makes all the sense to relocate to a MORE centralized locations (I am not advocating moving it to 120th, which would probably be more centralized than 72nd).

[Big E]

Does the timeframe or impetus really matter?  The result is the issue, and it's a pretty established pattern we've come to accept as the status quo here.

"We don't need to locate things downtown because we don't have a centralized downtown because we spent 60 years moving things from downtown."

Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[delinea design]

I like the idea of a large capacity library built around 72nd St.; if this could be incorporated into a mixed-use development at Crossroads, all the better.  However, call me old fashioned, but I really believe the proper place for a city's main branch library is downtown.  While the city of Omaha will continue to expand westward and yes, we will have to redefine where the "center" of the city is, in terms of transportation downtown is a much better option.  While 72nd St. may be an easier destination for west Omaha, via the Dodge expressway, it is not as direct for those living east, north or south.  Downtown will always have expressways for access, regardless of how Omaha grows, this will always remain the same.  Also, the downtown population will continue to expand as urban living is becoming more and more popular with younger generations.
Also, while I think the architecture of the current main branch library leaves something to be desired, the location is awesome.  While I realize the money to rebuild the main branch would be difficult to obtain, I think it would be an incredible opportunity to build an architectural significant, new building on the current site.  The library could continue to be the centerpiece of the western portion of the mall.  I think this location of prominence really sends a message to visitors that Omaha takes its public institutions seriously.  Imagine something along the lines of Seattle's new library at the end of the mall, that would do wonders for Omaha's image and presence nationally.  If the plan is to move the library to a site near Joslyn - I would have to ask "why?"  We have a hole in the ground and a grass band-aid only a couple blocks away.  I don't think the site warrants a corporate tower when there are other blocks available.
Just my two (and a half) cents.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Joeglow, that logic is ridiculous.

Could you imagine if a city like Chicago had taken this view? That city is completely hemmed in on its east (unlike Omaha, whose metropolitan area is allowed to stretch east into Iowa) and all of it's urban development and suburbs fan out to the north, west, and south.

"Hub and spoke" has nothing to do with it.

I think my answer to your question of "why" was ridiculously substantive. If you seriously want an answer to that question then you need first to have a basic understanding of human history and civilization. Furthermore, in researching urban design and the history thereof, you would gain a sense of the idea of "what is public life," symbolically, and what it's place is in our society.

[S33]

Joeglow, that logic is ridiculous.

Could you imagine if a city like Chicago had taken this view? That city is completely hemmed in on its east (unlike Omaha, whose metropolitan area is allowed to stretch east into Iowa) and all of it's urban development and suburbs fan out to the north, west, and south.

"Hub and spoke" has nothing to do with it.

I think my answer to your question of "why" was ridiculously substantive. If you seriously want an answer to that question then you need first to have a basic understanding of human history and civilization. Furthermore, in researching urban design and the history thereof, you would gain a sense of the idea of "what is public life," symbolically, and what it's place is in our society.

Actually, his logic makes total sense. If the entire city/county is going to pay for this "hub"? library, why not have it more centrally located for everyone to use? It's a library, where people go to seek information, use computers and study. It's not like the Qwest center where the entertainment factor contributes to other development and adds to the attraction of downtown as a whole.

More to the fact, I think Omaha would be better off with one and only one library, one big library in a central location. But as usual, I'm sure you're going to dismiss anything I or anyone else says unless it jives with your viewpoint.

[joeglow]

Joeglow, that logic is ridiculous.

Could you imagine if a city like Chicago had taken this view? That city is completely hemmed in on its east (unlike Omaha, whose metropolitan area is allowed to stretch east into Iowa) and all of it's urban development and suburbs fan out to the north, west, and south.

"Hub and spoke" has nothing to do with it.

I think my answer to your question of "why" was ridiculously substantive. If you seriously want an answer to that question then you need first to have a basic understanding of human history and civilization. Furthermore, in researching urban design and the history thereof, you would gain a sense of the idea of "what is public life," symbolically, and what it's place is in our society.

No.  What is ridiculous is your notion that EVERYTHING belongs downtown.  

I fully support downtown (I have worked there for over 10 years).  I think certain things belong downtown (Holland, Qwest, etc.).  However, a library, which is paid for with everyone's dollars and used by students all over the city throughout the year, should be placed in the center.  Sorry, but a public library has MUCH more important uses than satisfying your wet dreams.

[Big E]

[DTO Luv]

I think one thing some of you are missing is that moving something closer to the center of town doesn't make it more accessible. The further away from the core of the city you go the less public transportation there is. The main library is something that belongs downtown where it can be accessed by everyone, not just those fortunate enough to own a car.

[joeglow]

I think one thing some of you are missing is that moving something closer to the center of town doesn't make it more accessible. The further away from the core of the city you go the less public transportation there is. The main library is something that belongs downtown where it can be accessed by everyone, not just those fortunate enough to own a car.

That sounds like an argument for Westroads.  That said. I would LOVE to see the demographics of the users.

[justnick]

I think one thing some of you are missing is that moving something closer to the center of town doesn't make it more accessible. The further away from the core of the city you go the less public transportation there is. The main library is something that belongs downtown where it can be accessed by everyone, not just those fortunate enough to own a car.

That sounds like an argument for Westroads.  That said. I would LOVE to see the demographics of the users.

Or you could just sit outside for five minutes and count the large number of people who get off buses and walk inside.
But of course, when suburban people worry about five more minutes on the interstate, that matters ever so much more than adding an hour and one or more transfers on the bus, eh?

[joeglow]

Or you could just sit outside for five minutes and count the large number of people who get off buses and walk inside.
But of course, when suburban people worry about five more minutes on the interstate, that matters ever so much more than adding an hour and one or more transfers on the bus, eh?

Get off your high horse.  I work downtown and have spent a lot of time at the library.  I have also spent a lot of time at the Millard branch and the 90th & Dodge branch.  The biggest use for the downtown library is as a homeless shelter.

However, I DO love your position of supporting more and more and more taxes, but continually telling me it needs to go to only certain few parts of town.  Just because 10 people need to ride the bus, we need to have 100 people drive their car.  The fact that we have FOUR libraries in NE Omaha and THREE in SE Omaha (seven East of 60th street) sure shows a REAL under-representation for the poor people you want to take my money for.  However, like a true liberal, you do a great job of looking out for the poor....so long as you are spending OTHER people's money.

[justnick]

YOU want to move the library.
I want it to stay where it is.
Which one spends more money, [expletive]?

[joeglow]

YOU want to move the library.
I want it to stay where it is.
Which one spends more money, [expletive]?

|expletive|.  READ the thread.  I NEVER said I WANTED to move. it.  The RUMOR is that it is moving on its own. All I said is if that happens, it makes sense to move it to 72nd and Dodge.

|expletive|!!!!!

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Joeglow and S33,
You're acting like I'm proposing that there be only one library, and that it be in Downtown. The public library is a system that serves many parts of the city with it's branches and I'm not suggesting that this change.

In saying that the flagship main branch should be in Downtown, I am in no way suggesting that the other branches should be any less effective in the services they provide to their areas. To the contrary, I think they should be improved as well.

What are we really even arguing here?

So, say we get a big new library at 72nd and Dodge that better serves the Central Metro. Great. That doesn't mean it has to be the main branch. That should be in Downtown.

[iamjacobm]

I agree the flagship should stay downtown, but lets make a statement with it if we do it.  So many cities have stand out flagship libraries that help define part of the city.  Also I really hope they have a plan for the lot before they would tear it down b/c the last thing the city needs is another hole in downtown.

[RockHarbor]

I like that library location downtown, and I have good memories in that library.  But, if it moves out to the Crossroads area, then, that is fine, imo, too.  (I agree with the discussion about the fact that some people who take the bus may find it a longer ride to 72nd, then downtown, and they do need to be kept in mind.)  Funny, they just remodeled areas of that Swanson Library upstairs recently, then I hear that they may tear it down?  Interesting...  

It is hard for me to imagine a tall office building standing on that library lot downtown.  I mean, I would like it.  But, I am so used to the library framing the base of the twin Central Park Plaza Towers, then those framing the base of the Woodmen Tower rising behind it.  I'm so used to those two maroon twin Central Park Plaza buildings reaching outward, with geometric angles, in front of the white Woodmen, making almost one architectural statement.  It is hard for me to think a building has a "right" to stand in front of all that, and ruin that trademark, signature statement on the skyline.  (For so long, I always thought the Woodmen stood directly centered behind those, but in reality, it stands more behind the left, or south, tower.)

[mcarch]

I agree the flagship should stay downtown, but lets make a statement with it if we do it.  So many cities have stand out flagship libraries that help define part of the city.  Also I really hope they have a plan for the lot before they would tear it down b/c the last thing the city needs is another hole in downtown.

I agree... esp. with my previous post in this thread about Seattle & Minneapolis' Downtown Libraries.

[MrPoloShirt]

I agree with joeglow.  The downtown library is a great idea, but the homeless ruined it.

I'm not putting them down, I understand their situations, but they should not be hanging out in the library.  I really don't know what to say about their situations.  Most don't want to work, most are addicts.  Very few people in Omaha are homeless because of economic situations, so that's no excuse.

Moving the downtown library would do a lot of get homeless people out of the Mall as well.

Perhaps the Main branch should be moved near the new Mutual development.  That's an idea.

[Guest]

Moving the downtown library would do a lot of get homeless people out of the Mall as well.

.

Most are homeless because of mental health reasons, which makes their "situations" that much more worse and their prospects for rehabilitation that much more difficult.

[thenewguy]

Moving the downtown library would do a lot of get homeless people out of the Mall as well.

.

Most are homeless because of mental health reasons, which makes their "situations" that much more worse and their prospects for rehabilitation that much more difficult.

I'd be willing to bet that your generalization isn't accurate.  No doubt that there are those with mental issues, but that doesn't mean they are homeless because they are crazy.  Some people may go crazy after they are forced into said situation.

[Guest]

maybe they should have left skid row SRO on lower douglas so all those folks would have somewhere to go and get a room for $5 a night. along with the irwin, delmar, aero rooms, etc. etc.