new Lincoln arena/CC?

[OmahaBen]

So apparently Lincoln is already in total meltdown mode after losing the state wrestling tournament to the Qwest. Sports talk shows and newspaper articles already are throwing out the idea of building a new arena to compete with the Qwest.

My question is why? They don't have the population Omaha has, the Devaney Center is big enough for basically everything they have (except the State wrestling tournament), and my understanding is that Pershing is in roughly the same shape as the Civic.

They aren't going to get NCAA basketball regionals or U2 concerts there even with a new arena.

[DTO Luv]

That's crazy. A whole new arena that'd only be used for a few days a year just to spite Omaha. A new arena doesn't make any sense for Linocln. And a convention center? Please. I heard that the Lancaster Events Center was this big fancy place and when I saw I swear it looked just like a big sheet metal garage.

[almighty_tuna]

The idea of building a new arena in Lincoln is not a new one. They have been discussing this and performing studies for some time now. Pershing is in much worse shape than the Civic, out of date and woefully undersized, even for Lincoln. The Devaney Center IS a nice large venue, but was not meant for much other than Volleyball, Basketball and the (very) occasional in-the-round concert.

The new arena being discussed isn't an official proposal but has been suggested to be about 13,000 seats. Its not meant to compete with the Qwest Center, but to compete with Grand Island and Kearney and other similar sized cities.

When the Lancaster Event Center was proposed by the Lancaster Ag Society it was billed as needed convention space and a better location for the Lancaster County Fair. The latter is 100% true, but convention and concert space?...The county was swindled out of their money for that giant complex of quanset huts. They couldn't even retain advertising on their marquee. Now the LEC is begging for more $$ to build an 8,000 seat arena. They claim its for rodeos and concerts. If past performance is any indication, bank on a big airplane hanger looking building.

I'd like to see Lancaster County nix LEC's arena plans and have Lincoln/Lancaster County focus on building a modern arena. Expand their entertainment footprint in conjunction with the Antelope Valley project and really take a BIG note from Council Bluffs on how to build a successful entertainment complex.

[almighty_tuna]

What spectacular timing! JournalStar.com has provided a great story on its front page about this very topic. Sounds like there are some forward thinking individuals after all in that town!

...business leaders and city officials were meeting weekly to look at tearing up tracks, moving the post office, building new roads and stretching the Haymarket west — all to make room for a $222 million arena, convention center and luxury hotel. Westward Ho, they called it: an $85 million arena, $20 million convention center, $6 million sports complex and $50 million hotel that would hug the northwest corner of the Haymarket District.

They envision a 14,000-seat arena, 350-room hotel and 70,000-square-foot convention center...which totals nearly $222 million.

"We're not going to try to compete with Qwest," Seacrest said. "We're going to build this for Lincoln."

And finally, YAHTZEE!!!....

I think it's on the verge of major change but we have to convince the entire community that this is good for the community," Larson said. "There are a group of people who are anti-growth and anti-change and they're hard to bring along. Lincoln either has to grow or it's going to stagnate."

I don't forsee this coming to fruition for at least a few years, but if they pull this off as an arena/convention center/hotel it will surely be a new era for DTL. Unfortunately Lincoln needs it now not in 5 years. Apparently UNL wants nothing to do with the project - the Chancellor's PR lady came off as rather bitter in the article.

The Harris Overpass (O Street) is slated for replacement and its design could accomodate access to a new arena. Relocation of the central post office to make way for the arena is an event of greater significance. Not because its a relocation, but the Lincoln Postmaster said talk of moving could prompt the U.S. Postal Service to look into consolidating Lincoln with Omaha.

The timing of this creates quite the snafu for entertainment venues. Apparently the State Fair board is looking into a new arena, to which I ask "with what %$*#-ing money?" The Devaney Center was paid for, in part, with an increase of the cigarette tax - oh the irony and loss of income. The Lancaster Ag Society, as previously mentioned in this thread, desires to build an arena of their own. I believe my feelings on that are well-outlined in my last post. Omaha obviously has the ability to support 3 arenas of decent size all within a few short miles of eachother. I am skeptical of Lincoln's ability due to its size. There are too many cooks in the arena kitchen - put some heads together and focus on one arena and Lincoln could come up with something incredible.

I'm very impressed with the vision of the West Haymarket group.

The whole article is here: http://www.journalstar.com/articles/200 ... 752568.txt

[GoWest]

That's crazy. A whole new arena that'd only be used for a few days a year just to spite Omaha. A new arena doesn't make any sense for Linocln. And a convention center? Please. I heard that the Lancaster Events Center was this big fancy place and when I saw I swear it looked just like a big sheet metal garage.

First we beat down Lincoln in another thread for not being progressive enough. Now you are getting on their case for thinking big. I'm not sure if I get it. If Lincoln can build a nice arena, more power to them Nebraska and the entire area.

[CountOfMC]

Well said, Go West. Go get 'em Lincoln.

[eomaha]

I agree... and Tuna... don't forget the State Fair is now getting an infusion of $2 million a year. That would go a long ways towards interest payments on a modest new arena.

[eomaha]

I'm glad I voted for it (I don't play the Nebraska lottery type games by the way!) ... my family and I love the fair... and look forward to it becoming an even better event... bonus if the state fair board works jointly with the city of Lincoln to benefit the entire metro in general.

[DTO Luv]

Finally a Lincoln Section! I just wish we had more people on here from Lincoln.


Even though they keep saying the arena won't compete with the Qwest Center it ultimately will whether it's intended or not.

-Concerts

Any concerts that are big coming to the area will go the Qwest Center. Even with smaller shows Omaha will have the advantage. We have more people in the Omaha area and MECA has been attracting smaller shows (like around 5,000+) and making them very profitable for the performer and the venue. Also with an arena that was one of the top grossing in the world, it will have a good reputation as able to attract people. Linocln has done a terrible job at getting people to shows. Snoop Dogg sold so few tickets in Lincoln that it was moved from the arena in Pershing to the Underground with a total of around 1,200 attendees. So I don't think that they will draw the concerts or Arenacross or Monster Truck rallies they want either. The Qwest Center gets those motorcycle events all the time and I thought the MAC had monster trucks pretty regulurly.

-Sporting events

This might be the only thing it would get used consistantly for. And even then it would only be a few days a year. Even if Lincoln had every state tournament at the new arena freeing up the Qwest Center for bigger events, that still doesn't seem justifiable to build an arena for that. $222 million is alot of money. The Qwest Center only cost $291 million. Maybe if they just built the arena and hotel for people attending the events that would be alright.

-The Convention Center

It might be needed in Lincoln. It won't be big enough to get the events the Qwest Center does, but I don't imagine that would be it's intended purpose either. So the Convention Center seems doable.

[OhioStreetKid]

DTO I would think that you would be pleased with Lincoln's aspirations. Common sense would tell you that MECA would become even more driven to add seats and make their planned addition to the Convention Center.

[OmahaDevelopmentMan]

DTO I would think that you would be pleased with Lincoln's aspirations. Common sense would tell you that MECA would become even more driven to add seats and make their planned addition to the Convention Center.

Good point. It wouldn't look too good to have an arena in a city w/ 300,000 people to have an arena with only 1,500 less seats than the city with 800,000. I doubt if built it will be that big though. Remember when the Qwest was being thought up, they wanted it to be 20,000. As we all know, it was shortened 4,500 seats.

[DTO Luv]

Since we are becoming more of one metro I have to ask, what other metro close to our sizes has 2 arenas over 14,000? A better question is what metro our size has 2 profitable arenas over 14,000? Lincoln would attract acts the same size that would fill Pershing but it's not even happening. Omaha's big concert is scene is Lincoln's big concert scene.

[Omaha Cowboy]

The LJS wrote:

'They envision a 14,000-seat arena, 350-room hotel and 70,000-square-foot convention center. By comparison, Omaha's Qwest Center seats 17,000 and includes a 471,000-square-foot arena.'..

Honestly I think this is hugely pie in the sky for Lincoln and is brought to the forefront one again because Lincoln just lost the state wrestling tournament to Omaha. I keep hearing the 'we're not building this to complete with Omaha' hyperbole..But c'mon. Common sense dictates that IS one really big reason they want build an arena in Lincoln. Not that I mind. But I'd wish they'd be a bit more honest about it IMO..

DTO Luv wrote:

Since we are becoming more of one metro I have to ask, what other metro close to our sizes has 2 arenas over 14,000? A better question is what metro our size has 2 profitable arenas over 14,000? ..

This is a solid and legitimate question..I can think of none. And lets not forget the DevanyCenter DOES exist already in Lincoln with seating at about 13,500 (although for the last decade, it really has been catering to more university related events..But is NOT limited to them. This must not be forgotten in this discussion). I do believe a $222 million million arena (Qwest was $291 mill) is quite over the top for Lincoln..

Does Lincoln need a new arena? A few months back I debated the pros and cons of this. At the time, Lincoln was proposing a 12,000 seat arena. Now the number has grown to 14,000 and the cost to $222 mill. Sure..They don't want to build this new proposal to compete with Qwest Center ..

All I ask is they be honest..For the record, I believe this current plan is too ambitious/over the top and will need to be scaled back if they have ANY hope to build an arena that will update the Pershing. And also for the record IF they build a new convention center/arena, the Pershing should be flattened..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[Swift]

since all the build up to the Qwest center took place when I was oblivious to such things, how did we pay for it?

[OhioStreetKid]

Private donation and a public bond issue

[almighty_tuna]

I agree... and Tuna... don't forget the State Fair is now getting an infusion of $2 million a year. That would go a long ways towards interest payments on a modest new arena.

Yes, but if they just threw that $2M at arena payments the State Fair would perpetually be in disrepair. That money would go much farther in renovating and replacing existing facilities.

[eomaha]

We're of course assuming all of $2 million would be going to a convention center/arena. With a partner in the city of Lincoln (which is obviously mulling issuing bonds for such a project already) and private support, and a -piece- of this $2 million subsidy (say to pay for upkeep/employ staff/etc) ... I have no doubt they can pull it off with more than enough left over to bring along other aspects of the fair.

Go for it Lincoln! (why are you people questioning whether Lincoln can support it? If they can't... I guess that's their problem... personally, I don't think that's what you guys are worried about ).

[almighty_tuna]

That's one of the problems though, Jeff. Lincoln, the State Fair and Lancaster Ag Society are all contemplating their own separate arenas. I don't think the State Fair would work with Lincoln because Lincoln's arena would not be easily accessable to the State Fair crowd. If everyone would work together that'd be great. I just don't see it happening.

[OmahaBen]

Go for it Lincoln! (why are you people questioning whether Lincoln can support it?).

I'm not, I'm questioning the need for it. Besides the state wrestling tournament, I don't see any events that would come to Lincoln because of a new arena that currently skip it. And spending $200 million for a high school wrestling meet seems absurd.

I suppose the same could be said of Rosenblatt with regards to the CWS, but there's no point in comparing an event that singlehandedly brings millions of dollars into the city, not to mention national exposure via ESPN, to a state high school event that has an impact of thousands of dollars.

[eomaha]

Nonetheless... if Lincoln wants to build something (and I guess that remains to be seen... as far as public support is concerned)... that's their decision to make. I would personally expect a 14k seat arena in Lincoln to be more viable at least than a 10k seat arena across the river in Council Bluffs.

[Swift]

instead of spending $222 million on a new arena, they should spend that money to build a bullet traint between Omaha and Lincoln!

[eomaha]

I doubt $200 million would even cover a bullet train... and some how I suspect Lincolnites would rather subsidize something that adds value to their community... instead of streamlining the transfer of dollars to ours.

[Swift]

Shhh...we can convince them! I can be very persuasive!