PBA and Hockey (split thread)

[MadMartin8]

From the Lincolon Journal Star story:

"They’ve done a great job. State wrestling has gotten better every year I’ve been on the board,” Henrichs said. “But in talking to fans and teams in our area, they would much rather go to Lincoln."


Well duh, they're from Lincoln, of course they want it to be in Lincoln.


This space issue is why I laugh each time someone talks about UNL putting a D1 Hockey team in that arena.

[Greg S]

There is room on that floor for hockey, won't be a problem.

Greg

[NovakOmaha]

There is room on that floor for hockey, won't be a problem.

Greg

That's what I thought I read when they were planning the place. I seem to remember it being included so they wouldn't have to retrofit later.

[Brad]

Not only is there room, they have already had the ice down once. Go look back that the pinnacle bank thread arena thread, there is a photo of it.

[Brad]

Not only is there room, they have already had the ice down once.  Go look back that the pinnacle bank thread arena thread, there is a photo of it.

Better yet, here is the photo:

[MadMartin8]

Yes, I'm aware they shoehorned an ice rink in.

[Greg S]

It fits in there fine, there won't be any issues. It was planned from the early stages of design.

Greg

[Linkin5]

Yes, I'm aware they shoehorned an ice rink in.

Shoehorned? What are you talking about?

[guitarguy]

A shoehorn is a device used to get tight shoes on.. meaning it was barely squeezed in there.

[Linkin5]

Right, I don't understand how it was "squeezed" in there, it was designed to comfortably fit a hockey rink. Believe it or not, Lincoln didn't haphazardly spend millions of dollars on an arena and last minute during construction decide they could squeeze in a rink.

[nebugeater]

All based on the preconceived notion that some people do not like the area or at least the fact that Lincoln has it. If you take the stand that it is most likely far from the only thing that is not good enough. Probably no good for concerts either.

[Brad]

For Hockey, I want it squeezed in. The best atmosphere in Omaha was the civic and that was the king of squeezed in!

[Linkin5]

For Hockey, I want it squeezed in.  The best atmosphere in Omaha was the civic and that was the king of squeezed in!

I believe they were saying "squeezed in" in a negative way, not what you are thinking.

[Coyote]

I know we are getting a little off topic, again, but did they really originally design PBA to include a hockey rink, or after discussion did they measure and put together a mock rink to see how it retro fitted?

[nebugeater]

I know we are getting a little off topic, again, but did they really originally design PBA to include a hockey rink, or after discussion did they measure and put together a mock rink to see how it retro fitted?

It was in some of the earliest information that I saw on the arena. What I remember and what may add some question is that I do not believe they made the decision to install the refrigeration and other things necessary for the ice until rather late in the project when they knew where cost were. It was always a design detail but at first it was going to be an option to add at a later date.

[MadMartin8]

I know we are getting a little off topic, again, but did they really originally design PBA to include a hockey rink, or after discussion did they measure and put together a mock rink to see how it retro fitted?

It was built first with basketball in mind, with hockey seen as a last minute item if they could do it (so yes, Linkin, they did see it as a last minute "if we could" item) Then they tried it, and a good chunk of the lower bowl seating is removed (hidden).

If you guys think the site lines and space is made for hockey in mind, I have some ocean front property in Montana for sale, and a bridge in New York.

Maybe split me into the PBA thread might be applicable here?

[Linkin5]

Thanks for replying, can you point to an article stating a hockey rink was a last thought addition and squeezed in?

[MadMartin8]

Glad I checked again before posting. Thanks Coyote for moving.

Thanks for replying, can you point to an article stating a hockey rink was a last thought addition and squeezed in?

I suppose the idea that they didn't even add in some of the needed infrastructure until after just to "test", or that they still don't have it all in place would suggest that this would be a Basketball Specific Arena (including sight lines?), and thus hockey wasn't too high on the initial priority list (if at all). Or the fact that, when they were advertising it (at their live sessions in Lincoln during my college years, and even in print), they specifically said a Basketball Specific arena which could be molded into multi-purpose for concerts and state events. It's UNL's Basketball Arena, and Lincoln's answer to other regional venues for concerts, not for ye olde hockey.

Ultimately if I eventually spend some time to find some Lincoln Journal Star articles for you from the early days of development that specifically reference hockey, I'll be sure to post them. Who knows you could very well be right, and I could very well be hallucinating... and if I am, then I happily acquiesce. Although rack my brain if hockey was ever mentioned as a near future possible use except by those who are pining for UNL Hockey on various messageboards. Perhaps we could also work to find some renderings prior to construction, even a proposed seating chart for hockey, or maybe a model with an ice rink in it? Maybe some drawings? All I can find are for concerts, and Basketball which might indicate the priority list here.

Again, Ice Hockey wasn't the purpose of this project, it's a Basketball Arena (and it's perfect for Basketball, but we already knew this) that can hold concerts. I'd be willing to make a bet that hockey will not be in the PBA for AT LEAST 5 years, if at all. If they do, it looks like a pretty odd fit, and I sure as heck wouldn't bother unless I was a dyed in the wool follower of UNL (which of course there are many I suppose?).

[l-dude]

I can address some of your questions...from what I know and observed, when they make Ice, they have to bring in a refer unit on a flatbed trailer, which is what they used to test the arena floor for ice shown in Brad's re-posted photo above. I'm told that utility connections for an on-site ice plant were installed, but the equipment was left out to reduce the initial cost.
As far as the comments referring to "shoehorning" the ice sheet into the arena...it has retractable "bleachers" up to about the 8th level (from the floor) on the east, south, and west sides. But to accommodate a collage size (I presume...I don't think its Olympic size) ice sheet, the northwest, north, and northeast bleachers retract to about the 15th level. Really they don't retract them, they remove them and take them outside the building, as there isn't enough room inside to store them. So this won't give hockey fans the experience of being at ice level right behind the dasher boards, but will allow the arena to stage "Ice Capades" type skating shows. This is also how they configure the arena for concerts when the act needs stage depth (on the north side). All-in-all its a clever way to provide basketball fans the best experience, while being somewhat multipurpose, thanks to our Omaha based DLR designers/architects. Also, because of these details, making ice, and then covering it with a sports (basketball) court, which is what Quest (oops, Clink) center does may not be possible, as I'm not sure the retracted "bleachers" could be opened up on top of the ice/basketball floor for Basketball.
How do I know this...I'm one of those yellow vested chaps in the previously referenced photo that Brad re-posted above.

[Linkin5]

I know I have said it before but l-dude please post as much as possible, you are a lot smarter than I and have tons of great information.

[MadMartin8]

I can address some of your questions...from what I know and observed, when they make Ice, they have to bring in a refer unit on a flatbed trailer, which is what they used to test the arena floor for ice shown in Brad's re-posted photo above.  I'm told that utility connections for an on-site ice plant were installed, but the equipment was left out to reduce the initial cost.  
As far as the comments referring to "shoehorning" the ice sheet into the arena...it has retractable "bleachers" up to about the 8th level (from the floor) on the east, south, and west sides.  But to accommodate a collage size (I presume...I don't think its Olympic size) ice sheet, the northwest, north, and northeast bleachers retract to about the 15th level.  Really they don't retract them, they remove them and take them outside the building, as there isn't enough room inside to store them. So this won't give hockey fans the experience of being at ice level right behind the dasher boards, but will allow the arena to stage "Ice Capades" type skating shows.  This is also how they configure the arena for concerts when the act needs stage depth (on the north side).  All-in-all its a clever way to provide basketball fans the best experience, while being somewhat multipurpose, thanks to our Omaha based DLR designers/architects.  Also, because of these details, making ice, and then covering it with a sports (basketball) court, which is what Quest (oops, Clink) center does may not be possible, as I'm not sure the retracted "bleachers" could be opened up on top of the ice/basketball floor for Basketball.
How do I know this...I'm one of those yellow vested chaps in the previously referenced photo that Brad re-posted above.

Good information. I was thinking those bleachers would be hidden, but if they have to remove so many that surprises me a bit... But again, kind of shows the original intent to be the best home for basketball possible.


Also interesting information on the ice. Thanks l-dude.

[Greg S]

Here's an article from a while ago that shows how nicely the hockey boards fit at PBA. The steep design of the bowl was thought of for basketball but works great for hockey (similar to the Civic).

http://journalstar.com/news/local/arena ... e262b.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Greg

[PobodysNerfect]

You will also notice that it is not center to the arena. The red line falls off center to the center hung and seating.

[Greg S]

Yeah it's not quite center, but is definitely fine for hockey. It would definitely be an NHL sheet in there, with plenty of good seats for college hockey.

Greg

[MadMartin8]

There is a huge difference between the Civic and the PBA when it comes to hockey. I'm not sure how the comparison can even be made, but sure? I guess we will see down the road how it is.

[Greg S]

There is a huge difference between the Civic and the PBA when it comes to hockey. I'm not sure how the comparison can even be made, but sure? I guess we will see down the road how it is.

The comparison is the incline. How steep it is for the bowl. From the early stages, PBA went as steep as they could and still be in compliance with ADA and such. Century Link went more outward. That's the comparison I was making.

Greg

[MadMartin8]

There is a huge difference between the Civic and the PBA when it comes to hockey. I'm not sure how the comparison can even be made, but sure? I guess we will see down the road how it is.

The comparison is the incline.  How steep it is for the bowl.  From the early stages, PBA went as steep as they could and still be in compliance with ADA and such.  Century Link went more outward.  That's the comparison I was making.

Greg

The PBA is straight up and down indeed. The Civic isn't nearly as vertical as the PBA, as the PBA was built around a Basketball floor. The Civic most reminds me most of the old Sioux City Arena back before they updated it, it visually looks steep, but it's not as limited as the PBA.

Great for Basketball, not really for Hockey. The point is moot anyways, I doubt UNL has hockey on its 5 year plan from who I've talked to.

[Linkin5]

There is a huge difference between the Civic and the PBA when it comes to hockey. I'm not sure how the comparison can even be made, but sure? I guess we will see down the road how it is.

The comparison is the incline.  How steep it is for the bowl.  From the early stages, PBA went as steep as they could and still be in compliance with ADA and such.  Century Link went more outward.  That's the comparison I was making.

Greg

The PBA is straight up and down indeed. The Civic isn't nearly as vertical as the PBA, as the PBA was built around a Basketball floor.  The Civic most reminds me most of the old Sioux City Arena back before they updated it, it visually looks steep, but it's not as limited as the PBA.

Great for Basketball, not really for Hockey. The point is moot anyways, I doubt UNL has hockey on its 5 year plan from who I've talked to.

[MadMartin8]

Cool story bro?

[Greg S]

After our hockey game last night we were talking about PBA (someone was going on and on about how great it was for a concert), the talk turned to hockey. One of the guys was in there for a tour before it opened and saw it with the boards up. Said on both sides it is great for hockey. Due to the design, the boards when you sit on the sides do not block near as much of the action as the Clink. I asked about ends and said that is not as good, especially one of them.

I do agree we are 5-10 years away from a possible UNL team (actually 2 because they would add women's as well). When the BTN and Big 10 national contracts go up for renewal we will learn more. Will be interesting to see if the BTN2 rumors are true. If you're betting on the Big 10 conference only having 6 hockey teams 10 years from now, I will take that bet.

Greg

[MadMartin8]

After our hockey game last night we were talking about PBA (someone was going on and on about how great it was for a concert), the talk turned to hockey.  One of the guys was in there for a tour before it opened and saw it with the boards up.  Said on both sides it is great for hockey.  Due to the design, the boards when you sit on the sides do not block near as much of the action as the Clink.  I asked about ends and said that is not as good, especially one of them.

I do agree we are 5-10 years away from a possible UNL team (actually 2 because they would add women's as well).  When the BTN and Big 10 national contracts go up for renewal we will learn more.  Will be interesting to see if the BTN2 rumors are true.  If you're betting on the Big 10 conference only having 6 hockey teams 10 years from now, I will take that bet.

Greg

The PBA is a great venue for concerts and certainly for basketball, that much can't be questioned. But due to the height and angles I just think that you have a VERY VERY limited number of "good seats" for ye olde Hockey. We'll have to just agree to disagree on the extent of which that is, and I'm okay with that. To each their own. I think to have a special atmosphere for College and Junior Hockey you need something like what UNO is doing for their new Arena, also what the Civic and Aksarben was. The CLink is decent, but not to the extent the previously mentioned ones are/were.

In regards to UNL's Hockey team, it's 10 years out easily. Just from the standpoint of finances and what not. I DO NOT however believe the Big 10/11/12/14 will only have 6 Hockey teams though. They'll add probably 2 more for sure, the timeline is probably a bit shorter than UNL's hockey timeline.

But, who knows what the future holds I suppose?

[Greg S]

Goal line to goal line it will be great for hockey.

Finances won't be an issue. Right now the major conferences are distributing in the lower 20's (millions) to each of their schools. It has been estimated that once the Big 10's renews it's TV deals in a couple years, (plus the new revenue on the east coast from BTN going to the first tier of cable) it will be distributing in the mid 40's. The SEC has acknowledged this by saying they wished they were the last of the power conferences to negotiate their TV rights.

Greg

[Ben]

Wasn't the whole argument about UNO killing its football program so that the University of Nebraska system wouldn't have 2 D-I teams that could potentially compete against each other, and compete for resources ($ and talent)? Wouldn't UNL adding D-I hockey go against this very principle, as it would compete with UNO's pre-existing program?

Or is this a case of whatever UNL wants, they get, as they're the mothership? It would just be so tough to see UNO get the shaft here, with as much as they've done to develop their program into a top tier hockey team.

[Greg S]

Wasn't the whole argument about UNO killing its football program so that the University of Nebraska system wouldn't have 2 D-I teams that could potentially compete against each other, and compete for resources ($ and talent)?  Wouldn't UNL adding D-I hockey go against this very principle, as it would compete with UNO's pre-existing program?

Or is this a case of whatever UNL wants, they get, as they're the mothership?  It would just be so tough to see UNO get the shaft here, with as much as they've done to develop their program into a top tier hockey team.

No. When UNO made the full move to D1 it was because they determined they could not financially support the added scholarships needed to support football. UNO has been on shaky ground and Trev has been trying to reverse that. It had nothing to do with UNL hockey.

UNL hockey would not impact UNO hockey negatively. If anything it would give UNO a potential long term rival (something they've never had and the fans are dying to have), and it would raise the visibility of the sport in the local media (another thing the UNO hockey fans have craved).

You just need to look at basketball. UNL's resurgence in basketball with facilities, attendance and wins has not hurt Creighton.

Greg

[MadMartin8]

Wasn't the whole argument about UNO killing its football program so that the University of Nebraska system wouldn't have 2 D-I teams that could potentially compete against each other, and compete for resources ($ and talent)?  Wouldn't UNL adding D-I hockey go against this very principle, as it would compete with UNO's pre-existing program?

Or is this a case of whatever UNL wants, they get, as they're the mothership?  It would just be so tough to see UNO get the shaft here, with as much as they've done to develop their program into a top tier hockey team.

No.  When UNO made the full move to D1 it was because they determined they could not financially support the added scholarships needed to support football.  UNO has been on shaky ground and Trev has been trying to reverse that.  It had nothing to do with UNL hockey.

UNL hockey would not impact UNO hockey negatively.  If anything it would give UNO a potential long term rival  (something they've never had and the fans are dying to have), and it would raise the visibility of the sport in the local media (another thing the UNO hockey fans have craved).

You just need to look at basketball.  UNL's resurgence in basketball with facilities, attendance and wins has not hurt Creighton.

Greg

Exactly, well said. UNO hockey has nothing to "fear" or worry about if UNL ever gets a team, they would work in tandem quite well and would provide a pretty fun boost to some fanbases.

The whole talk of this backroom deal about UNL agreeing to not field a hockey team because it would hurt UNO...it just needs to stop.

[Greg S]

Totally agree. I like both schools. It's not like I'm going to suddenly stop going to UNO games because UNL gets a team. An hour each way in winter, twice a weekend? No thanks. I'm a UNL grad, a diehard Husker, but in no way would UNL hockey have any impact on my hockey allegiance. I might go to Lincoln to catch a game when UNO is on a road trip, but that's about it.

Greg

[MadMartin8]

Totally agree.  I like both schools.  It's not like I'm going to suddenly stop going to UNO games because UNL gets a team.  An hour each way in winter, twice a weekend?  No thanks.  I'm a UNL grad, a diehard Husker, but in no way would UNL hockey have any impact on my hockey allegiance.  I might go to Lincoln to catch a game when UNO is on a road trip, but that's about it.

Greg

Plus, they wouldn't even be in the same conference. People could follow both teams easily, and would most likely only have to draw allegience once a year for a game/series if they played.