LB 500 is dead for this session

Post by **Coyote** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:07 pm

Bill to aid Cabela's comes to a halt

Omaha World Herald wrote:"Unless something strange happens in the next day or so, it's done," Kopplin said. "It would have been a wonderful thing, a very good thing for Sarpy County and for the state of Nebraska, too. But sometimes you don't win."

...but LB 312 and 90 pass.

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:18 pm

This is Ri-GOD-damn-diculous. Unbelievable.

Post by **Coyote** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:36 pm

They have the 25 votes to pass the bill but not the 33 to put cloture on it. Ernie wins his battle - the state loses millions and millions and millions.

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:58 pm

Coyote - Do you think this will be re-issued next January, or is kaput for good?

Post by **Coyote** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:09 pm

CountOfMC wrote:Coyote - Do you think this will be re-issued next January, or is kaput for good?

I am sure this will carry over to the next session if a 'miracle' doesn't happen in the next few days. I think Kopplin and Landis will try to shore up support this summer/fall. I think someone may need to start a public campaign in favor of this bill - targeting those senators who are on the fence or who Chambers has conviced to vote no.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:18 pm

When is chambers going to be out. If its next year it should pass. Hes just so persuasive it seems.

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:25 pm

Seemingly it's as though so many developments are riding on the passage of this bill, that it's almost commonplace/automatic that it will get through eventually. We've got way too much momentum for this thing not to pass. DTO Luv - go find Chambers and make him understand.

Post by **Coyote** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:28 pm

OmahaDevelopmentMan wrote:When is chambers going to be out. If its next year it should pass. Hes just so persuasive it seems.

Chamber will be ineligible to run again in 2009 - unless term limits are overturned - or he retires before then.

scraper · Post by **scraper** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:53 pm

I'm personally glad this form of the bill didn't pass. I don't think a retailer should get tax incentives to come to our area, especially a Nebraska company. If Scheels will build here without incentives, why can't Cabela's? What's next, Cheesecake Factory or Restoration Hardware wanting incentives to come to Omaha? Take out retailers from this bill and I bet it would pass. I'm all for incentives for true entertainment complexes like an amusement park or North Downtown, but not for retailers. I don't think that would be a good precedent to make in this state.

loyalomahan · Post by **loyalomahan** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:09 pm

scraper go down to Cabelas in KC and tell us if you think it doesn't feel like a tourist attraction. It draws more people than any other 'attraction' in Kansas and way more than Scheels brings in on even its busiest holiday weekends (on an average Cabelas day). More important than drawing Cabelas to the metro is creating a catalyst for other development. You need look only as far as that KC Cabelas and others around the nation to realize that numerous other developments have come in its wake.

By the way I am neither a hunter or fisherman and probably will never set foot in a Cabelas, but I realize thousands of Nebraskans are leaving the state to visit a destination superstore in KC to spend their money and at the same time getting the opportunity to spend more dollars outside the state on lodging, food, entertainment, etc. Its the casino issue all over again.

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:23 pm

I myself not being a purveyor of the NASCAR, and the deer-shootin', am wondering if anyone knows if the merchandise at Bass Pro is similar to what's at Cabela's?

If it's similar, I wouldn't get too upset since BPS is opening later this year, and probably spinning off a decent amount of development near by.

Post by **Coyote** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:31 pm

DMRyan wrote:If it's similar, I wouldn't get too upset since BPS is opening later this year, and probably spinning off a decent amount of development near by.

After Iowa gave BPS the same incentives Nebraska is trying to give Cabela's

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:36 pm

Oh the fun of living in a bi-state area.

What I'm saying is that the metro area is still getting a similar sports store that will still bring people to the metro area to stay and spend money.

I can understand the resentment by not seeing the sales tax or the spin-off development on the Nebraska side, but what's good for CB is good for Omaha, and vice versa right?

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:41 pm

Yes, but is it also good for Scottsbluff, Governor Coach? ;)

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:42 pm

I didn't know we were caring about anything west of Wahoo on this forum.

...and believe me, we do care about Wahoo.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:44 pm

What's Wahoo?

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 pm

I can understand the resentment by not seeing the sales tax or the spin-off development on the Nebraska side, but what's good for CB is good for Omaha, and vice versa right?

Sure, but I thought the more, the merrier? It's not just about Cabella's.. you've got Mutual, North Downtown, the Amusement Park, Askarben, Further molding Omaha/Lincoln etc... counting on this bill. Maybe it's just too much of a good thing.

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:51 pm

I'm not against the tax breaks. heck, give away the store like Iowa has done Nebraska!

My only point was that a mega-sports, pheasant decoy and deer scent attractant warehouse will still be in the metro even if Cabela's never gets built.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Wed May 25, 2005 5:44 pm

DMRyan wrote:I myself not being a purveyor of the NASCAR, and the deer-shootin', am wondering if anyone knows if the merchandise at Bass Pro is similar to what's at Cabela's?

If it's similar, I wouldn't get too upset since BPS is opening later this year, and probably spinning off a decent amount of development near by.

Being an outdoorsman (fishing, hunting, gun shooting, ect), I can give you a pretty good idea of the difference. Bass Pro Shops is mainly fishing oriented (as the name suggests), although it does have a descent selection of hunting gear. What makes Cabelas different is rather than focusing on 1 main sale (like fishing is to BPS), it focuses more on the outdoors as a whole, with extensive selection of everything from fishing to hunting to hikeing to camping. YOu could say Cabelas is more 'complete outdoors'. Now I haven't been to a BPS in maybe 5 years, so maybe their mentality has changed. Oh, and they both have cool aquariums and dead animals everywhere, for all the members of PETA in the area

scraper · Post by **scraper** » Wed May 25, 2005 5:57 pm

scraper go down to Cabelas in KC and tell us if you think it doesn't feel like a tourist attraction. It draws more people than any other 'attraction' in Kansas and way more than Scheels brings in on even its busiest holiday weekends (on an average Cabelas day). More important than drawing Cabelas to the metro is creating a catalyst for other development. You need look only as far as that KC Cabelas and others around the nation to realize that numerous other developments have come in its wake.

Loyal, tell me how Cabelas makes their money. By retail sales. By offering them incentives you are giving them an unfair advantage over their retail competition and that's not something that should happen. I just think this is a can of worms that we don't want to open. Get rid of the retail language in the bill and let the development that I think is really important to the metro (North Downtown and an amusement park) use the incentives. If a Nebraska company won't step up and build a store in the metro because they don't get a sweetheart tax deal, frankly we don't need them.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:02 pm

Son of a |expletive|! Once agian Is there any reason why Omaha 9or one of the metro counties) can't offer the same incentives the state doesn't want too?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:06 pm

scraper wrote: Loyal, tell me how Cabelas makes their money. By retail sales. By offering them incentives you are giving them an unfair advantage over their retail competition and that's not something that should happen. I just think this is a can of worms that we don't want to open. Get rid of the retail language in the bill and let the development that I think is really important to the metro (North Downtown and an amusement park) use the incentives. If a Nebraska company won't step up and build a store in the metro because they don't get a sweetheart tax deal, frankly we don't need them.

But even if it is a retail store it's still a toursit attraction. You're trying to tell a group of people who have driven hundreds of miles (or flew to KC, Mpls, Chicago) to shop that Cabela's isn't a tourist attraction? You'll probably be in the minority. But when it's the 1st or 2nd top attraction in places with much mor attractions (just think about Philadelphia alone) than it should be given a special status. Cabela's isnt the only ting that we want but the other things that will spring up around it and encourage people to come (stay in a new hotel) and spend money other places too.

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:08 pm

In general I’m not for this bill. I don’t support giving a rich thriving company millions of dollars in tax breaks so that they can make more money. Cabela’s is doing fine financially. If they opened a store in Omaha it would be a success for them even without the tax breaks. I am not a fan of giving millionaires tax breaks so that they can make more money. If this is a tourist attraction then why not the AMC 24 since they draw 1.5 million people a year. Would Wal-Mart get this break to if they built some superstore next to Cabela’s? I would be for the tax breaks for true entertainment type options. For instance, the amusement park and baseball stadium come to mind.

sokkerdewd · Post by **sokkerdewd** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:40 pm

GoWest wrote:In general I’m not for this bill. I don’t support giving a rich thriving company millions of dollars in tax breaks so that they can make more money. Cabela’s is doing fine financially. If they opened a store in Omaha it would be a success for them even without the tax breaks. I am not a fan of giving millionaires tax breaks so that they can make more money. If this is a tourist attraction then why not the AMC 24 since they draw 1.5 million people a year. Would Wal-Mart get this break to if they built some superstore next to Cabela’s? I would be for the tax breaks for true entertainment type options. For instance, the amusement park and baseball stadium come to mind.

I totally agree... We should have an incentive bill for things like North Downtown and the Amusement park, but not retail stores. Case in point, should Nebraska provide tax incentives to Nebraska Furniture Mart if they want to build next to Cabela's (like in KC?) It's a destination store....

Besides, most of what's available to buy in a Cabela's is already available in a Scheel's or Bass Pro...not to mention we have other stores like Sports Authority and Dicks which are struggling.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed May 25, 2005 9:13 pm

But who stays in a hotel in another city to go to AMC? No one. People do go out of their way to shop at Cabela's and even make trips out of it. I'll just use a personal example. A few years ago I was with staying at families in Lincoln and my mom's friend who was picking me up was going to Ogallala for something Friday and then to Cabela's in Kearney the rest of the weekend. So for two days Kearney (not just Cabela's) made money for us eating, staying in a hotel for 2 days, gas, plus what he did eventually buy at Cabela's. So this bill isn't just about bringing Cabela's it's about bringing in more people to our area and more money to our area.

Yes a retail store CAN be a store AND a tourist attraction. What is the Mall of America?

Will · Post by **Will** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:17 pm

Good point DTO!! If a company does something that draws people from other areas then it is a good thing. Every time I have been to the twin cities I have spent at least 3 days at the Mall. true this is on a smaller scale but can have simular effects if there were other things in the area that helped boost the area.

sokkerdewd · Post by **sokkerdewd** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:22 pm

DTO Luv wrote:Yes a retail store CAN be a store AND a tourist attraction. What is the Mall of America?

This is very true...and I would be open to TIF money for Cabela's, etc...just not $20 million. I think they should be lent support, but they would be viable without the additional incentives proposed by LB 500. It's too bad LB 500 couldn't have been amended to strip it of the retail provisions so it would've gotten past Ernie.

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:53 pm

I wouldn't support the tax break for a mall the size of Mall of America either. I don't support giving money to retail businesses so they can open up a store in one of the fastest growing and most prosperous counties in Nebraska. I would support tax breaks for retailers to setup shop in North and South Omaha and other underserved areas where there is a perceived risk and a reasonable chance of failure. A store that draws lots of people is still just a store. Regional malls and super stores are built all over the place. The fact that they draw lots of people doesn’t make them a tourist destination. I know people that come to Omaha just to shop at Westroads, NFM and Borshimes. I’m sorry but these are not tourist/entertainment destinations in my book. I don’t see a lot of people booking a room because we built a Cabela’s in town.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:03 pm

There are already tax incentives for retail in less affluent areas. That's part of the reason the Sorenson Plaza thing (old Vickers site) was so contested because people also thought that was unfair for them too.

scraper · Post by **scraper** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:31 am

The difference is the developers of the Vicker's site took a huge chance by developing a major retail development in an underserved, nonaffluant area of Omaha. Sarpy county is booming and there is little inherent risk by putting a store there.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:45 am

Coyote wrote: After Iowa gave BPS the same incentives Nebraska is trying to give Cabela's

That would just be plain wrong, Coyote. BPS got some local tax incentives through the City and County, but it's the same sort of thing that happens every day on both sides of the river. There was no significant State money or incentives involved.

The incentives that some were trying to give Cabela's would be the same (more or less) that the IA Legislature passed this spring for a NASCAR track by Newton, as a pilot program. If that proves successful, look for the IA Legislature to expand it statewide, and I doubt it would include retail ventures.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Thu May 26, 2005 9:53 am

Here's some wonderful news about what got lost with that bill not passing.

Sarpy sees a missed chance on Cabela's

Omaha World Herald wrote:Steve Minard, who proposed a $70 million amusement park along the I-80 corridor between Omaha and Lincoln, said the defeat of LB 500 would mean he could not start construction this fall as he had planned. He says the development will need millions of dollars in public tax incentives.

Minard said, however, that he will not abandon plans, noting that the Legislature could revisit the bill next year.

So basically hes screwed! And unless some cooperate boys step up and help out with the ballpark, I'm guessing it won't happen either.

scraper · Post by **scraper** » Thu May 26, 2005 9:55 am

Thus the reason the retail language should have been removed.

loyalomahan · Post by **loyalomahan** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:08 am

Relax, the sky is not falling. Progress will continue. Bass Pro Shops may be a bigger incentive to Cabela's building in the Omaha metro than these tax incentives. There is so much focus coming to the Omaha metro from outside investment in retail/restaurants/etc as of late, I have no doubt there will be more opportunities for Minard to get help, if not an entirely different group of investors coming along. And I am confident a downtown baseball park will come eventually, regardless of these incentives. It's all good people.

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:25 am

I actually sort of agree with this now. It's an unfair advantage, and if I were Scheel's or Dick's or whomever, I'd be pretty hot. With such a good location, I think Cabella's would more than make up for any lost incentives. Can the bill undergo any revisions in the next week, meaning can we take out the retail part of it? There's way too much riding on this bill to forego anything and everything else incorporated with this measure. An amusement park in the vicinity of Cabella's sounds like harmony to my ears. What did Cabella's expect... that we were just gonna watch them iron their green money all the way to the bank?? Pull yourself together. All this does now is it sets us back 6 months. Here we go again. How can anyone be happy with all these constant setbacks?

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:16 am

Remember that the Amusement park and the Royals ballpark were being talked about before this bill even came about. This bill would have been helpful, but not necessary. Minard said he won’t abandon his plans. Let Cabela’s go crying back to western Nebraska if they want. It’s them who will be giving up the opportunity to expand into the states largest metro. The quantity and quality of jobs they bring in would be practically unnoticeable in a metro this size. Does Omaha really need 200 more cashier jobs? They are always welcome here, but they aren’t anymore welcome than any other retailer unless you build in a blighted area.

jsheets · Post by **jsheets** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:02 pm

Cabela's is already being pushed around by Bass Pro in Omaha. It was their own fault for taking so long to begin with. Does Bass Pro need special tax financing in Iowa? I don't remember hearing about any.

I really think Cabela's is kicking themselves over this one. They let Bass Pro get the best intersection in the metro area, right in the heart of Cabela's home turf (I know it's Iowa, but the Omaha metro should have been theirs).

What I'm saying is that Cabela's is already 2 years late. If they would have built 2 years ago, Bass Pro wouldn't even think of coming here. Maybe its better for Omaha, because in the end we might be one of the first metros with both!

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:46 pm

I think this serves us right by having elected leaders not jump on a good deal when they see one

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=46&u_sid=1426889

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:05 pm

I think it's getting ridiculous that more and more classes of businesses expect so much and not to have to pay their fair share of taxes today. Everybody wants something for nothing. Cabella's is now looking at CB because of a freer ride. What happened to paying your fair share of taxes especially in your home state? Whats next, Buckey's and Jiffy Lube demanding tax breaks or they will pull out?

I understand that businesses need to meet the bottom line but soon the individual taxpayers will be footing the bill for all of the state's obligations.

I am just really disappointed that Cabella's is acting like a scourned child.

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:47 pm

Think of it this way cabella's just outsourced jobs and taxes to Iowa