Envisioning Lincoln 2015

[DTO Luv]

I highly doubt Lincoln has more activity DT than Omaha. My mom used to live in Lincoln after school and she said Omaha has always had much more DT than Lincoln. And she's not from either she was from Nebraska City. My dad who was living in both cities over the past few years couldn't wait to get back to Omaha because it had more going on than Lincoln.

As someone said in another thread Nebraska is to small people-wise to ague and fight over things. So the rest of the state needs to lie down and yield everything to Omaha.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I highly doubt Lincoln has more activity DT than Omaha.

It doesn't..In the 80's and into the 90's? Yes..But not anymore..Some will just not give in that it's 2007..Not 1987..

 ..

Honestly, today, the only time I've observed DT Lincoln with more activity is after a Husker Saturday home game WIN..Other than that phenomenon, which is a 50/50 probability these days, Omaha's DT activity and nightlife is equal to or more active than DT Lincoln..Which is a compliment to Lincoln when considering their metro is more than 500,000 smaller than Omaha..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[Stargazer]

I'm going to paint this a little differently here (as many of you have come to expect, for better or for worse).

Thanks to the Old Market, we DO have far more 'downtown' activity on average, than downtown Lincoln.

However, I would suggest... that there is more 'apparent' activity spread THROUGHOUT downtown Lincoln, on a typical evening/weekend... than you'll find THROUGHOUT downtown Omaha.  Lincoln, quite simply, has it's restaurants/shops/street level businesses... spread much more AMONG it's central business district, than we have.  Landmark Center is an example of how to build a commercial building with at least SOME street level interaction.  First National Center, while gorgeous to look up to... has very little street interaction, outside of one corner.  Union Pacific (and even more so, the parking garage it brought along)... an even worse example.  The Qwest building... horrible (can common folk even walk through the lobby to the other side?).  D'Shawn hates the Central Park Plaza towers, but at least they're making an effort to put pedestrian uses at it's base.  Any future commercial highrise development really needs to start taking street uses into account, the city needs to insist on it ... or we're going to continue to foster a  'keep moving, nothing to see here' pedestrian experience.

Old Market... fantastic!  the envy of many much larger cities.  The rest of the central business district?  not so much

Of course 16th Street would seem to hold the most potential for a turnaround.  Get that angled parking in there!

[Swift]

The whole point is that Lincoln should strive to be different from Omaha, not try and build the same things Omaha has.

You guys are talking about how much you like Lincoln, and how you had so much fun there. In the very next sentance you condone it changing to be more like Omaha??

We NEED two UNIQUE and DIFFERENT cities, not Omaha and an Omaha parity. Lincoln is poisoning it's very existence by trying to build things that a good college town doesn't need.

Lincoln should go back to being the bohemian and artistic enclave it was in the late eighties and early nineties. It doesn't need a Qwest center, it needs a dozen more places like the Coffee House and Lazlo's. If Lincoln really wanted to thrive, they'd ban chain stores and offer grants to locally owned start up businesses.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I agree with that 100%, Bob.

TO EVERYBODY, I apologize for my negativity and for my part in taking this thread off-topic.  There's been some "personal factors" at work lately.

The truth is, I really like Lincoln, for the reasons Bob just listed.

In fact, I was there just last night to celebrate a friend's birthday.  We went to Duffy's downtown, and although it was FREEZING out, "O" Street was as vibrant as ever (possibly having to do with the rodeo that is in town, but the foot traffic seemed predominantly of the college student variety).

And I agree wholeheartedly with the assesment of Omaha's downtown night life activity being centered around the Old Market (and hopefully soon North Downtown), whereas Lincoln's is centered all along it's main street downtown, "O" Street.

And this really is as it should be.  Of course I want to see a more vibrant 16th St. in Omaha, etc., but as a larger city, Omaha also has a larger and more diverse downtown.  The the Central Business District is just that, a business district (which isn't to say it SHOULDN'T be vibrant in the evenings/night).  You think the financial district of Lower Manhattan is a happenin' place after 6 PM?  Or Chicago's Loop?  Hardly.

[edsas]

The Qwest building... horrible (can common folk even walk through the lobby to the other side?).

My starry-eyed dream is to one day own that building and turn it into something truly special and an appropriate neighbor to The Holland Center. Anybody know how much a 16-story office building goes for in DT Omaha, nowadays?  

RE: Lincoln. I agree that Lincoln should strive to "be its own thing". But I don't agree that building a 16,000-seat arena constitutes conformity. Lincoln's metro is knocking on the door of 300,000. Another 100,000 people live just 75-minutes or less away down the I-80 corridor. When I was growing up in Grand Island, trips to the Lied Center and Pershing Auditorium seemed like nothing. Just an hour and fifteen minutes both ways, whereas when we went to Omaha Civic or Aksarben to see something we had to tack on another 75 minutes. The drive home from those concerts seemed like a slog especially when the shows ended at midnight. So the notion that 400,000 people can't support 16,000 seats just seems ridiculous to me.

And another thing. When did Lincoln stop being a Bohemian enclave? I left Lincoln in 1999 and it was as much one then as when arrived in 1993. I assume it still is, right?

Now the one thing I've been very sad to observe from a distance is the demolition of the DT Lincoln cinema district. I haven't been to Lincoln since the new multiplex went up, but there was something very exciting and dynamic about having 6 different theaters on 6 square city blocks with a total of 23 screens (plus the Reipma Ross a short walk away at the Sheldon). Now the city has just three theaters (The Rococo, The Ross and the multiplex) with I don't know how many screens. The single-screen Stuart (now the Rococo) produced some literal block-busters in the 90s when lines wrapped around the block to see Independence Day, Titanic, the re-release of Star Wars in 1997 and some others.  You just don't get lines down the street (and the carnival-like atmosphere they create) with muliplexes.

Aaron, I think you revealed part of your problem with Lincoln which is that your brain seems to make involuntary excuses for the city's core vibrancy. "O" Street is always (during school months) active, day or night, cold or hot regardless of things like "rodeos" being in town. The answer is simple. DT Lincoln is the primary entertainment district for 250,000 people and nearly 30,000 college kids (UNL + Wesleyan). The only time the activity palpable dips is in the summer when school is out, but even then, there are plenty of students who stay -- plus other residents, not to mention summer organizations like the convergence of the National Thespian Society -- to keep Lincoln buzzing.

But I acknowledge that things have changed. Certainly Omaha is much different than it was 10 years ago and indeed has a leg up on Lincoln in terms of making urban Nebraska into something special. The ball is rolling and things are only getting better there. What I can only leave to Lincoln residents to answer is whether or not Lincoln's DT has stagnated. It seems in many ways it might have, but there are city leaders that are trying to transform the place. The Journal-Star is doing a series on these efforts called "The pillars of change" which is a fascinating read for anybody who really does want to see DT Lincoln enter a new era. It won't do that by avoiding "stepping on Omaha's toes" (which is what you seem to suggest, Bob), but by being bold. And the groups 10 pillars of change is nothing if not bold. Their philosophy is to aim high and if they come up short, they will still have produced something great for the city.

Personally, I think Omaha should establish a DT cinema district itself. I never understood why it already hasn't. Perhaps with the opening of Slowdown's arthouse portion, the ball will roll toward that end, too.

So, bottom line for me is DT Omaha hit its current stratospheric stride with bold leadership, ambitious ideas and by ignoring the Diane Marie Hayes "white elephant" dooms-day prophets. For there to be similar naysayers living 50 miles away when Lincoln attempts its own bold leap into the future strikes me as weird. Lincoln's plans may fail, but so what? What does it have to do with any of you? Why begrudge Lincoln for trying? That part of your arguments has gone unexplained. Except for D'Shawn who simply says he hates Lincoln and always will. Fair enough. At least his argument makes sense.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Aaron, I think you revealed part of your problem with Lincoln which is that your brain seems to make involuntary excuses for the city's core vibrancy. "O" Street is always (during school months) active, day or night, cold or hot regardless of things like "rodeos" being in town.

You made some great points, edsas, but I have to take exception to the above quote.

I think you completely missed the point of my post.  I was pointing out how vibrant Lincoln's downtown is.  I mentioned the rodeo, because indeed, the four native Lincolnites I was with were confused as to how so many people were out in Lincoln on such a cold night, and THEY looked to the rodeo as a possible explaination.  If they hadn't brought it up, I wouldn't have even known about it.

[edsas]

No, I got your point, which is why that explanation occurred to me.

Of course, you didn't mention that it was your Lincoln friends who offered the rodeo explanation.    And I have no idea what the activity looked like that you're referring to, maybe it was exceptional. So don't be offended by my assumption, please.  :)

To be fair, I've been to Lincoln exactly 3 times in the last 8 years. I don't know if it's changed for the worse since the 90s or not. I hope not. But the Lincoln I remember back then was a truly remarkable place. As a film buff (and as someone who has made film and television a career) my fondest memory of Lincoln was to catch an art film at the Ross (or during film class) and then head over to Barrymores with some fellow film students to discuss what we'd seen over drinks. Barrymores (for those who have never been) is something truly special. The backstage of an old theater (before the Stuart switched to film) with 50-foot ceilings (and an alley entryway between early 20th century midrises) is an environment I've never experienced since. And I'm intimately familiar with both UCLA and USC (the king and queen of film schools). Westwood is nice, but it's a long walk from the UCLA film school and it still has nothing like Barrymores. Ditto for USC. The film snobs I hang out with (and, yes, they are my friends) have no idea something like that exists in a "sleepy little Midwest college town." And I would be hopeless to try to explain it to them.

Lincoln was brimming with potential back then, not just in film regards, but also art and music. I hope it still does. But the bottom line is, admittedly, I really don't know.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

No, I got your point, which is why that explanation occurred to me.

Of course, you didn't mention that it was your Lincoln friends who offered the rodeo explanation.     And I have no idea what the activity looked like that you're referring to, maybe it was exceptional. So don't be offended by my assumption, please.    

I am offended, but it's cool.

[Finn]

Good points edsas and Stargazer. Lincoln is active and much of it is due to the University. But regardless, it brings street activity to downtown Lincoln. And yes, Cowboy, this is 2007 - not 2010..... when downtown Omaha will be a more active urban center. But, now it is centered on a couple square blocks of the Old Market!

[Omaha Cowboy]

yes, Cowboy, this is 2007 - not 2010..... when downtown Omaha will be a more active urban center. But, now it is centered on a couple square blocks of the Old Market!

And if you really believe this in 2007, you haven't spent much consistent time in DT Omaha lately..

The transformation is going on now..There are a growing number of active enclaves outside the Old Market that have made activity outside of the 'couple square blocks' much more vibrant..And obvious to the eye..

That said, there is little doubt, even by 2010, that the Old Market will continue to be the centerpiece of downtown Omaha cultural/entertainment activity..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[Finn]

The transformation

Exactly!

[Omaha Cowboy]

The transformation

Exactly!

Which in 2007, is currently adding on to the downtown Omaha activity beyond the 'couple square blocks'..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[Finn]

OK, it still 'aint exactly hoppin'.

[Omaha Cowboy]

 ..

I'll give you that..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[murfj]

Honestly I don't find too much more to do in Omaha that I can't do here in Lincoln- Omaha seems too much like a "bigger version of Lincoln" (as my wife, who is new to this area observed).  So if we want big city things to do, we don't even consider Omaha anymore, we go to Kansas City (or Denver if we have the time).  

By that logic, isn't Kansas City just a "bigger version of Omaha"?

That's what I was going to say.

And, as you demonstrate "somewhat", what I detect from most Lincolnites is not hatred of Omaha, but a skewed perception of Omaha (size/parity with Lincoln, etc.)

When you can hypothetically fit more than three  "city Bs" into one "city A," that means "city A" is not merely just a "bigger version of 'city B.'"

That is not at all what I meant- if I were just going by population, then any city would fit that description.  All I was quoting is what my wife said when first arriving in this area- she was new to Lincoln, new to Omaha, and that was her first impression.  Omaha is bigger, has a few more things, but in the grand scheme of things doesn't have the "big city" feel, so to her it just felt like a bigger version of Lincoln (which she thinks is quite small, as she came from a much larger city).  She didn't- as I don't- get that same feeling when visiting larger cities (KC, Denver, Seattle, to name a few recent visits), as those are larger and are at that next level of being major cities.

[Stargazer]

As much as it upsets some of us... I could certainly see (and have seen) some folks from larger cities... lumping Omaha and Lincoln into the same 'category' of city.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

As much as it upsets some of us... I could certainly see (and have seen) some folks from larger cities... lumping Omaha and Lincoln into the same 'category' of city.

Yes, it IS upsetting.  But I understand that that's the way of it.  As I point out the size differences, et al. between Omaha and Lincoln, I'm well aware that Omaha falls short in comparison to cities like St. Louis, Minneapolis, etc.  and that's who WE'RE striving to compete with.  

One of my three rules of life is that everything is relative, and it certainly applies in this case (as in all cases).