Downtown lincoln in 2025

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StreetsOfOmaha
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Post by StreetsOfOmaha »

THAT...WILL...BE........THE.......DAY!!!

Well, it certainly is visionary. I wonder what they're thinking their downtown population will be by 2025. I seriously doubt it could support all that. Unless somehow they're counting on becoming a suburb of Omaha (sarcasm).

But seriously. That'll be the day.
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Post by eomaha »

It's called VISION people... and 20+ years out at that. Or did you think we'd be breaking ground on our OWN 72nd and Dodge urban district next year?

Give Lincoln a break.
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Post by j4nu »

As Jeff said, this plan is a vision and I think a pretty interesting one. As for the feasibility, I agree alot of it seems like a stretch, but this is the city that is pullling off the antelope valley project. That project is a huge redevelopment of the university, state fair ground and the eastern section of downtown Lincoln. Check out the link, it is a pretty amazing project they are undertaking.
http://interlinc.ci.lincoln.ne.us/city/pworks/antelope/
Last edited by j4nu on Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DMRyan »

In 1995 when things were almost dead-|expletive| stagnant in downtown Omaha, how many could've predicted the greatest downtown development boom ever in a time span of only a couple of years?

I think it's great Lincoln is doing this. It's certainly no less feasible than some of the Omaha by Design recommendations.
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Post by DTO Luv »

I don't see why Lincoln would try to build a convention center/arena. The MAC in CB can't even compete with the Qwest Center so how could another smaller venue hope to stand a chance? Also if they are wanting to attract businesses into DT they should rethink their height restriction for DTL.

I have been to DTL on several occasions and it always felt more like a big version of a small towns Main Street area. Not a real DT like Omaha, Des Moines, or KC. If they want to plan for all this stuff for 2025 they will be far behind Omaha. DTO by 2005 should look totally differant and not to mention 2025. The one thing I wish they would do for DTL is to not have so many big streets come together at once. (I-180, Highway 6, Corhusker Freeway are all within a block of each other on 9th St. and it is as bad as some Omaha traffic.)
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Post by StreetsOfOmaha »

Yes, all good points people. But this is LINCOLN. The town that just voted down an innitiative to improve their horrible, under-serving street network.

Not only does Lincoln have simple logistics, like population, going against it, it also has rampant small-mindedness going against it.

But, I suppose anything is possible*























*except this :)

Just kidding. I give Lincoln a hard time.
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Post by jsheets »

As a fast growing community of 220K+, a college town, and host to many sporting events, I don't see why Lincoln wouldn't want to build something better than Pershing! A comparison with the MAC isn't very fair, since the MAC is hurt by its proximity to the Qwest and Civic. Pershing still brings in acts, but Lincoln could do better.

The downtown does feel less "urban" than Omaha's, but look at how many fewer people live and work in DTL than DTO. But as a sharp contrast, I think DTL is much better at attracting people downtown for entertainment and restaurants than the Old Market. I love the Old Market, but I wish it had more restaurants that appealed to a middle-priced market. DTL has that, and it has great clubs and bars. Plus, DTL has the new movie theater downtown that looks awesome! It takes up nearly a city block, and is beautifully designed to mesh with the surrounding area. Exactly what Omaha needs downtown!

Image
http://www.douglastheatres.com/theatres.php?TID=16
http://www.journalstar.com/articles/200 ... 419719.txt
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Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

I'm kind of confused with all the hatred for Lincoln. What small-mindedness? You can't expect a city less than half the size of Omaha to act the same exact way. They have different priorities than we do.

I've been all around Lincoln because my family is originally from there and, to me, it doesn't seem to give off this vibe that some of make it out to.

From a retail perspective, to start, Lincoln opened their first lifestyle center (also developed by RED) 6 years before Omaha did. Such trendy stores as Scheels, Hollister and Abercrombie and Fitch were opened in Lincoln long before even Des Moines even got them. They support a Mercedes, BMW, and Saab dealership and a Lexus dealership just opened this summer. They also have an Embassey Suites hotel. Not all cities of this size as close to other major metro areas as Lincoln is can do that.

The Antelope Valley project should be enough proof for how much they care about the aesthetics of their downtown and university districts.

Some of their suburban areas are of comparably aesthetic to the likes of such places as Overland Park. They put flowers and trees in their medians, and I can think of two Taco Bell locations, off the top of my head, that were required to build their facades out of brick.

Somebody once mentioned that Lincoln isn't growing. Ahem..according to 2000 census reports, the Lincoln metro is, as a percentage, growing faster than the Omaha metro , and maybe Des Moines too...i don't recall.

The ultra progessive city of Madison, Wisconsin, also has a hieght limit so as views of the capital building aren't hindered. I don't think a height limit is all that bad as long as it keeps quality over quantity as the norm. I think the view of downtown heading into Lincoln from I-180 near the stadium is pretty cool as is for a small city.

Most of this is just off the top of my head as i scurry to write this before going to class, so excuse me if it seems a little open. I can elaborate later if you'd like.

And I agree with the fact that they could use a new concert venue like Pershing. Its still used quite frequently but its getting a little out dated.
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Post by OhioStreetKid »

I have to agree with Titos on some things, a lot of the Omaha "elitists" on this board really like to take it to Lincoln, but some of the basic suggestions by Omaha by Design have been in place in Lincoln for sometime. They do a fairly good job of landscaping streets, and about everything is brick. Sure they have their blighted areas, but Omaha isn't running short on those either. As far as the arena goes, did anyone ever think that they may shoot for a coop arrangement with the University of Nebraska at Lincoln? Lincoln could then have state tax dollars pay for a lot of the arena, and have a guaranteed amount of dates for the arena to be used. Devaney Center is approaching 30 years old, and in the last five years Big 12 schools Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, and now I believe Iowa State is thinking of renovating/adding to Hilton Coliseum.
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Post by UNOstudent »

i went to UNL my freshman year before returning back to omaha,where i'm orginally from, and i thought the city was overall dull. the only thing lincoln had going for itself was the univeristy and the capitol/government related stuff. althougth thats only two things, thats two pretty big items. i think it would be awesome if the city of lincoln and UNL team up to replace or extinsively renovate the devaney center. maybe it would help recruit a better basketball team so we can compete w/ texas and oklahoma in other sports than just football. since traffic does suck and lincoln seems to be denser than omaha, that would possibly open the door for mass transit. i hope nothing but the best for lincoln but omaha will still be top dog and a bigger city with more to offer.
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Post by almighty_tuna »

UNOstudent, I also thought that Lincoln had a denser layout than Omaha as well. I checked it out to see if I was right and was very surprised
According to Webster:

Lincoln
The population density is 1,166.9/km² (3,022.2/sq mi). There are 95,199 housing units at an average density of 492.5/km² (1,275.4/sq mi).
Omaha
The population density is 1,301.5/km² (3,370.7/mi²). There are 165,731 housing units at an average density of 553.1/km² (1,432.4/mi²).
*numbers based on 2000 census
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Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

Twiztid1 wrote: Sarpy County is that fastest growing county in nebraska right now. That doesn't mean an arena and all that other stuff can be built there.
Well yeah. :roll: Sarpy County is Omaha in terms of metropolitan areas. I'm not sure what that has to do with the Lincoln metro growing faster, but yes, the people of Sarpy County should not build an arena do to the fact that the Qwest Center is a short drive from where the bulk of their people live. Even so, they will soon have a small convention center just west of La Vista once the Embasy opens. Lincoln, on the other hand, is its own metropolitan area and already has its own arenas.
Kearney built an arena and it was as much of a failure as the arch. Central Nebraskans don't seem to be able or willing to support concerts. With few Omahans traveling to lincoln for shows, that will leave lincolnites having to support the arena. And let's not forget grand island will have a similar sized arena that is already payed off. It will mean more competition for lincoln.
That's because it is Kearney...30,000 ish people live there. The reason the arch was a failure, as some experts say, was that there was no interstate off-ramp in close proximaty. The tourists didn't know where to go, so they just kept driving. Grand Island is also a puddle of population in comparison to Lincoln. They're the real small minded people. Saying the Grand Island arena will be competition for Lincoln is kind of like saying that the MAC will be competition for the Qwest Center. Look what happened with that...hardly any musical act would choose Grand Island over Lincoln unless they were country perhaps. I'm not sure where you got the impression that few Omahans are willing to travel to Lincoln for shows. I can't even recall how many of my friends traveled down to Lincoln for the Disturbed concert two years ago. You do realize how many Omahans travel to Lincoln for football games don't you? I am in support of building a new arena in Lincoln, but, I think it should have ties to the universtiy. I think they should tear down the Devaney Center and build a new arena in its place. Many concerts would be drawn to the proximaty of a large university and many other fans are willing enough to travel long distances to see their favorite acts in concert. In fact, Dave Matthews Band and Metallica both made an appearence here at Iowa State University in Ames, IA this year. This town has a population of about 50,000 and is only 30 minutes away from Des Moines. They could have easily gone to Des Moines I'm sure, but chose to come up here to play at the university instead. A university is a good draw for acts who appeal to the late teens/early twenties age group, which there are a lot of. That, a decent population, and the help of a shiny new facility could keep Lincoln competitive with any of the surrounding arenas.
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Post by projectman »

i Hope Lincoln does well with all of it's projects. I think Haymarket Square is very nice and I like the museums and the Capitol. Downtown Lincoln has a lot of potential. How it grows from here is up to the people of Lincoln. Someday we will be one Metropolitan area (IMO) so the two cities need to work together and feed off of all of the growth. It's the only hope for Nebraska to compete with the rest of the country.
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Post by guy4omaha »

Lincoln is different that Omaha but not inferior. In some respects, in some neighborhoods, there are things that are better in Lincoln. There are other places and things that are better in Omaha.

Lincoln's skyline is different but cool to look at nonetheless. Sit in the NU baseball stadium and view the downtown Lincoln skyline. Cool! Not Omaha. Lincoln. I was in SW Lincoln a few weeks ago along areas near Old Cheney Road. Some very nice neighborhoods, landscaping and architecture.

I hope Lincoln continues to grow and thrive and continues to dream and strive to improve. It is against human nature to not want to get better. heck all the east and west coasters think Omaha sucks. So let's just give up and settle for the old Civic because we will never be as large as New York City. Or if we ever are, by then NYC will have 150 million people and we will still have an inferiority complex.

Omaha needs a strong Lincoln. The future is that these two communities will be one and ever increasingly linked.

As far as the vision thing. Congratulations to Lincoln again. Just like our Omaha by design, you gotta dream big. Partly from a negotiation standpoint.

Proud to be an Omahan. But don't count me among the Omaha Elitists. This from a guy who used to spout off with "Stinkin' Lincoln" commentary when I was in college. But I got over it.
My son got a 27 on his ACT. No this score is not as high as what Jeff's son achieved. But one has to remember the paternal gene-pool my son has to overcome. On a PGPAB [Paternal Gene-Pool Adjusted Basis], my son's score is a 37 and Jeff's son's PGPAB ACT score is 19.
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Post by guy4omaha »

Also, anyone here recall seeing the original models (late 60's or early 70s) of the riverfront development dreamt up by Gene Leahy and Aust et al. I don't remember the exact dimensions, but it went as far north as Blair if not further. It was crazy. At the time, it occurred to me that it was like looking at the Jetsons. (I was a little tike then.) As far fetched as they seemed to be at the tme, many key elements of downtown and the riverfront go back to these plans. This willingness to dream and not worry about if its feasible next year made it possible for what has transpired these last 30 years. These pie in the sky plans have been chastided, forgotten, revisited and revised many times. And slowly but surely those rediculous models from the early 70's don't look nearly as far fetched today as they did back then. And of course the dream is not complete.
My son got a 27 on his ACT. No this score is not as high as what Jeff's son achieved. But one has to remember the paternal gene-pool my son has to overcome. On a PGPAB [Paternal Gene-Pool Adjusted Basis], my son's score is a 37 and Jeff's son's PGPAB ACT score is 19.
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Post by guy4omaha »

Excuse me for lacking better judgement but I only got two hours sleep last night and I have been up 22 hours since so I am probably a little edgy to say the least.

But....

To those who feel compelled to make comments that can be taken as disparaging to Lincoln and the rest of Nebraska by stating that these two mentioned locales are not urban enough and/or are populated by small-minded, small town hicks....

Please refrain from making such comments. It only makes you look defensive to the east and west coasters who accuse Omaha of being a hicktown. And it makes you look elitist to all Nebraskans not in Omaha. This may not be your intention but your message is received in this manner much more than you apparently realize.

I just know we are bigger than that. If you say tough to the Lincoln and Nebraska residents who resent such comments, then you had better not complain, whine or snivel about any anti-Omaha or Omaha ignorant commentary.

I doubt it resonates with anyone but I got it off my chest. I should be able to shut up on that topic for at least a year now. Maybe I will go write another letter to Rand McNally or something.
My son got a 27 on his ACT. No this score is not as high as what Jeff's son achieved. But one has to remember the paternal gene-pool my son has to overcome. On a PGPAB [Paternal Gene-Pool Adjusted Basis], my son's score is a 37 and Jeff's son's PGPAB ACT score is 19.
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Post by DTO Luv »

Well here I go....

I have been to Lincoln once to see A Perfect Circle (a music group for you older people) at the Pershing. The place looked a little smaller than the Civic and it was curtained off to only half the arena. The Journal Star said there were around 4,000 attendees. When I talked with my friends in Omaha about going to the show they were all clueless about it being in Lincoln. When Little John (a rapper) came to the Qwest Center their were between 14,000-15,000 in attendance at Omaha. But when Snoop Dogg who is much more famous than Little John, was set to play in the Pershing Auditorium, ticket sales were so low they had to move it to the basement of the Pershing. A whopping 1,100 people showed up. When I went and saw Metallica and Eric Clapton at the Qwest Center I ended up talking to lots of people who had made the trip from the Star City. Now this shows that either Omahan's aren't as willing to drive to Lincoln or that Lincoln isn't able to support bigger events.

The only thing I envy about DTL is their movie theatres. But it will not be long before DTO gets one. Give it 2 yrs. And to say that the DT restaurant scene is to pricey is a bit unfair. There are many places to eat well away from the OM that are for the more cash strapped. Eden (across from the Paxton), the Panda House (16th St. Mall), Big Daddy's (Govt. area) and Leavenworth Cafe are a few that come to mind. Of course Omaha is going to have more high priced restaurants because we are the classier city.

And even though Lincoln has UNL and the State govt. it still doesn't compare to our 5 F500 companies, Worlds 2nd Richest man, Henry Doorly Zoo, Rosenblatt Stadium home of the CWS for over 50 years, the ever growing Epply Airfiled, and our beautiful and growing Downtown Omaha.

I may not especially care for Lincoln but what I don't like is the people from Lincoln who think that Omaha is a big giant ghetto. Any chance I get to educate an in the dark Lincolnite about Omaha I will take it. My personality is very agressive though so it might come out sounding arrogant or offensive. Deal with it.
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Post by jsheets »

Deal with it? That's a little agressive, arrogant, and offensive now, isn't it? :-) [please sense my sarcasm detector]

Many people from Lincoln love to come to Omaha. I love living in Omaha, and I came from Lincoln. I don't think anyone needs to brag-up Omaha to Lincoln folks, especially with your sentence of boasting (even if you spelled Eppley wrong).

As for the "ghetto" comment. I personally don't see or feel that about my Big O at all. However, I know many people that grew up in West O/Sarpy who feel that way of anyone who lives east of 72nd. It's wrong, and I don't get it either. But please don't blame this small-mindedness on the people of Lincoln, when the same thinking already exists in the metro! Many areas of Lincoln are as progressive and urban as Omaha.

On the other subject, the population density thing is a little surprising, but you have to remember that Lincoln has annexed most/all of its suburb areas, while Omaha can't count its suburbs in that density count.
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Post by eomaha »

Yeah, I'd say we need to work over the Omahans who are afraid of east Omaha... before we worry how we're preceived by people from Lincoln.
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Post by DTO Luv »

This is how I see Omaha and Lincoln. They are close enough to be one, but differant enough that it will always be Omaha. And Lincoln. I would liken them to Baltimore and Washington D.C. They are both in the same metro but the 2 cities are very differant. D.C. is the smaller city w/o tall buildings and the main business is government. Like Lincoln. And Baltimore is the one with more of a city city. Like Omaha.

I was getting into it about Omaha and Lincoln with my aunts hair dresser in Lincoln and she said that Lincoln wasn't a bunch of farmers like people in Omaha think it is. I know Lincoln people aren't farmers but they aren't really city like Omaha. I guess Lincoln is now more of a mid-sized city than a small city. But still Omaha is better. :D
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Post by jsheets »

I think the reason you got into it with the hairdresser is because you have a misrepresented stereotype of Lincoln :-) The overall attitude of Lincoln is not that much different from the overall attitude of Omaha...
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Post by Zephyr »

Looks like some great ideas by Crandall Arambula. Centennial Mall definitely needs some fixing up.

When I was on the Mayor's Multimodal Transportation Task Force last year, I really pushed for an "intermodal transportaion center" in downtown and it received a prominent place in the final report. It's good to see this catch on in this downtown plan, but it definitely needs to be more multi-modal than what they describe here as a "bus transportation hub."

I also promoted a streetcar line - my idea was to have service between East Campus and City Campus (the highest current transit ridership corridor) with a loop downtown.

In regards to cost, I think it's feasible, especially with the use of public/private partnerships and similar creative financing options.
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Post by StreetsOfOmaha »

There's nothing elite about being honest about the situation.

Lincoln IS inferior to Omaha. Hello! And Omaha IS inferior to KC. And KC IS inferior to Boston. And Boston IS inferior to NYC...

It's all relative.
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Post by almighty_tuna »

Zephyr wrote: I also promoted a streetcar line - my idea was to have service between East Campus and City Campus (the highest current transit ridership corridor) with a loop downtown.
Absolutely superb! It would really be a great selling point for the university as well.
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Post by jsheets »

An East Campus / City Campus streetcar loop would be fantastic! Great idea!
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Post by eomaha »

I think the term 'inferior' as applied in these types of situations... is indicative more of ones outlook (once again :( ). And unfortunately.... to someone from Boston (or even KC for that matter) with the same kind of attitude... Omaha and Lincoln might as well be holding hands in terms of 'inferiority'. Sorry. That's assuming one has that kind of outlook.

Fortunately, I think most of us here are thinking more in terms of... "Boy, what a great city we live in... with all the activities and entertainment we're afforded, family friendliness, low cost of living, great job market, easy to get around ... there are just a million reasons to love this place!" And you know what... you'll find people from each of these places saying the same thing. Fortunately, it's those people... who far out number those who are constantly, seemingly, discontent... looking for something else... while at the same time discounting the importance of those cities which they deem 'inferior'. :)
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Post by Swift »

I'm curious as to how many people posting in this thread have actually lived in Lincoln.
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Post by almighty_tuna »

Dec 25,1979 - Jan 2003
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Post by projectman »

Never lived there.
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UNOstudent
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Post by UNOstudent »

9 months (two semesters). one day omaha and lincoln will be one big metro so people need to plan TOGETHER to make everything work for the best. even in these early stages, they need another freeway between the two cities b/c its total chaos when an accident blocks I-80 and hwy 6, which is two lanes, cant handle that amount of traffic. thats a problem we face today with just over a million between the two cities, imagine when it's two million someday.
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Post by OmahaDevelopmentMan »

June (can't remember date) 1988- April 19, 1997
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Post by CountOfMC »

UNOstudent wrote:one day omaha and lincoln will be one big metro so people need to plan TOGETHER to make everything work for the best.
While there is only 25 miles that separate these two cities now.. it will still be quite some time before they merge, if ever. But can you imagine driving west from Lincoln into Omaha and seeing everything filled in along the interstate? Just think when they start building south of I-80 near the Outlet Mall in Gretna and meet up with the work starting to evolve in the Embassy Suites/Southport development.. that whole area is pretty much untouched but it screams WOW. One of the unique things we are experiencing with Omaha is we are watching a transformation take shape... we're entering into a whole new tier of cities and it's exciting.. perhaps the most exciting phase for a city. You look at cities like Chicago, Minneapolis, and St. Louis... cities that are already well established in the U.S. Our time is beginning now and that's why we're all giddy and filled with so much pride. There's so much ahead of us, so many expectations, and so much hope.. we all want to be a part of it. Like someone said from Shawshank Redemption... hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. Let's hope we continue to make great strides...
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Post by jsheets »

Lincoln resident, '84 - '00.
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Post by almighty_tuna »

CountOfMC wrote:One of the unique things we are experiencing with Omaha is we are watching a transformation take shape... we're entering into a whole new tier of cities and it's exciting
Quote of the month. Well put.
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Post by Zephyr »

I wouldn't say I really lived in Lincoln, but I was there as a student for four years, from August 2000-May 2004.
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Post by almighty_tuna »

Zephyr wrote:I wouldn't say I really lived in Lincoln, but I was there as a student for four years, from August 2000-May 2004.


I wager we have crossed eachother's path a time or two. Ever went to Sandy's on Wednesday nights?
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Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

Never lived there, but I've visited it enough (once a month?) to know the place like the back of my hand.
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