Beer and Loathing in Dundee

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Brad » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:31 pm

These weren't construction workers. Mix of male and female, business casual dress.
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Professor Woland » Fri May 20, 2016 8:47 pm

I hear Jennifer Coco has acquired the building. I hope this is true.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Coyote » Fri May 20, 2016 10:23 pm

Professor Woland wrote:I hear Jennifer Coco has acquired the building. I hope this is true.


That would be awesome! Let's hope that rumor has some teeth.
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby iamjacobm » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:37 pm

Being marketed on loopnet for $1.2 million.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Coyote » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:46 pm

iamjacobm wrote:Being marketed on loopnet for $1.2 million.

I must have posted this in a different thread, but Chef Jennifer got tired of waiting for this building to get ready,
Rumors were also that she wanted rooftop access.
I noticed they were doing a lot of rooftop repairs last year... That would have been the bomb if they had rooftop seating...
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Professor Woland » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:52 pm

Coyote wrote:
iamjacobm wrote:Being marketed on loopnet for $1.2 million.

I must have posted this in a different thread, but Chef Jennifer got tired of waiting for this building to get ready,
Rumors were also that she wanted rooftop access.
I noticed they were doing a lot of rooftop repairs last year... That would have been the bomb if they had rooftop seating...


If the universe behaves as it ought to, I will win a large lottery jackpot, buy this building and turn it into a first rate burger restaurant (Shake Shack quality.) The lower floor will be a butcher shop that will provide meat for the restaurant and sell a full range of quality meats to the public. As I would be fabulously wealthy in this scenario I wouldn't have to work there, just stop by to do quality control. That or a store that sells man rompers (which I would not wear.)

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby hatwate » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:48 pm

On Nextdoor this posting by Tim Reeder appeared today."My company, Better Homes and Gardens Real Estate is moving in to the old Beer and Loathing Building in the spring after a major, histori cally sensitive renovation. We have carved out a large section for a coffee shop and are actively looking for a company to fill the space."

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby onelocalfoods » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:36 pm

|expletive|

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Professor Woland » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:30 pm

The only reason the Jennifer Coco thing fell apart was because of the regulations surrounding a historically protected building. The costs got too high so she had to pull out.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby 43county » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:58 pm

This is an absolute fail. You can put an office anywhere. Sad day for Dundee and those who like the neighborhood. I don’t care what needs to happen or whose fault it is, but it’s a shame there won’t be something here that could enhance the area and bring people in. When your two biggest footprints by sq ft are a real estate office and a medical clinic in an area that cool, it’s a huge bummer.

And a coffee shop? Last I checked there was a perfectly serviceable one about 20 yards across the street. So lame.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby onelocalfoods » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:10 am

This. ☝️

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby MSizlack » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:45 am

i understand how some see this becoming a business office as a disappointment. Dundee is a sort of gathering/dining destination. A restaurant may have been preferred. But as there is such a demand for housing in the Dundee/memorial park/aksarben and the rest of the midtown area, this is a good location for their business.
This property has been for sale for a few years. For those who whine and complain about what this building is going to become, or any other building or empty lot that is being developed into what you deem a fail, poor use or could have been so much more, why not put your money where mouth is. Take on one of these projects. There seems to be enough like minded people on this website that there shouldn't be much problem getting a group together and get a loan to do so. Whether you you opt to take on a project to start a restaurant, a building for condos or the holy grail, mixed use with underground parking, ground floor retail, office space above with top floor residential, there is plenty of opportunity out there. You can even not seek TIF.
Yes I'm being a d!ck about this. It's so easy to be disappointed on someone else's dime.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Big E » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:02 pm

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Stable genius.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:47 pm

Big E wrote:The more things change, the more they stay the same.


My gosh.. A Big E sighting..

And not a moment too soon.. Welcome back in :thumb: ..

And I agree with your sentiment...

Ciao..LiO...Peace
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Coyote » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:51 pm

Big E wrote:The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I think I know you!
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Big E » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:49 pm

Coyote wrote:I think I know you!


So what are you so afraid of?
Stable genius.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Coyote » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:42 pm

Big E wrote:
Coyote wrote:I think I know you!

So what are you so afraid of?

Heights
Bolsheviks
Clowns
Bats
Sour beers
Black holes
Quicksand
Flying Monkeys
Tarantulas
Dentists
Locking my keys in my car
Pentecostal Minister's laying on of hands
An empty fridge
Men with huge beards and
The Zombie Apocalypse
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby onelocalfoods » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:20 am

MSizlack wrote:i understand how some see this becoming a business office as a disappointment. Dundee is a sort of gathering/dining destination. A restaurant may have been preferred. But as there is such a demand for housing in the Dundee/memorial park/aksarben and the rest of the midtown area, this is a good location for their business.
This property has been for sale for a few years. For those who whine and complain about what this building is going to become, or any other building or empty lot that is being developed into what you deem a fail, poor use or could have been so much more, why not put your money where mouth is. Take on one of these projects. There seems to be enough like minded people on this website that there shouldn't be much problem getting a group together and get a loan to do so. Whether you you opt to take on a project to start a restaurant, a building for condos or the holy grail, mixed use with underground parking, ground floor retail, office space above with top floor residential, there is plenty of opportunity out there. You can even not seek TIF.
Yes I'm being a d!ck about this. It's so easy to be disappointed on someone else's dime.



I put my money where my mouth was on this building and submitted an LOI. It was in |expletive| shape and the only way back was through TIF and Historical credits. The rent was still as high as ANYWHERE in town and the landlords Dad begged me to stay with it. In the end it was a |expletive| deal which is why J coco and others had to bag it. This was the only thing left to do. No one was interesed in doing the deal the way it shook out. I cant say the same for many other buildings in Omaha. An office in that space is a fail.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Linkin5 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:12 am

onelocalfoods wrote:
MSizlack wrote:i understand how some see this becoming a business office as a disappointment. Dundee is a sort of gathering/dining destination. A restaurant may have been preferred. But as there is such a demand for housing in the Dundee/memorial park/aksarben and the rest of the midtown area, this is a good location for their business.
This property has been for sale for a few years. For those who whine and complain about what this building is going to become, or any other building or empty lot that is being developed into what you deem a fail, poor use or could have been so much more, why not put your money where mouth is. Take on one of these projects. There seems to be enough like minded people on this website that there shouldn't be much problem getting a group together and get a loan to do so. Whether you you opt to take on a project to start a restaurant, a building for condos or the holy grail, mixed use with underground parking, ground floor retail, office space above with top floor residential, there is plenty of opportunity out there. You can even not seek TIF.
Yes I'm being a d!ck about this. It's so easy to be disappointed on someone else's dime.



I put my money where my mouth was on this building and submitted an LOI. It was in |expletive| shape and the only way back was through TIF and Historical credits. The rent was still as high as ANYWHERE in town and the landlords Dad begged me to stay with it. In the end it was a |expletive| deal which is why J coco and others had to bag it. This was the only thing left to do. No one was interesed in doing the deal the way it shook out. I cant say the same for many other buildings in Omaha. An office in that space is a fail.


That’s really too bad the owner is charging so much for rent. This is not good for Dundee.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Professor Woland » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:00 pm

I'm fine with it not being a restaurant, there are a lot of eateries in the area, but it would have been awesome if a good menswear store or specialty food store had opened up there. Maybe the house that the realtor was using can become something like that now. This whole fiasco reaffirms my belief that there should be no such thing as a legally defined historic building outside of a few properties of real significance.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby bigredmed1 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:53 am

Professor Woland wrote:I'm fine with it not being a restaurant, there are a lot of eateries in the area, but it would have been awesome if a good menswear store or specialty food store had opened up there. Maybe the house that the realtor was using can become something like that now. This whole fiasco reaffirms my belief that there should be no such thing as a legally defined historic building outside of a few properties of real significance.


Not sure why a former hardware store was given historical status. Anyone have background?

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby iamjacobm » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:57 am

According to https://dogis.org/HistoricPreservation/ no specific buildings in Dundee are designated historic, but the entire neighborhood is.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby GetUrban » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:13 am

What specific "historical neighborhood requirements" kept this project from happening?

It seems more likely that bringing the building up to current ADA accessibility standards, life safety codes and/or energy efficiency standards would be the more major cost items, which would be required on all projects. There are actually exceptions allowed for meeting all ADA standards in historic buildings if it would significantly alter the historic features of the building or would be too cost prohibitive.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby 43county » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:41 am

GetUrban wrote:What specific "historical neighborhood requirements" kept this project from happening?

It seems more likely that bringing the building up to current ADA accessibility standards, life safety codes and/or energy efficiency standards would be the more major cost items, which would be required on all projects. There are actually exceptions allowed for meeting all ADA standards in historic buildings if it would significantly alter the historic features of the building or would be too cost prohibitive.


Onelocalfoods can speak to this even better than I can, but my understanding is that these types of things combined with unreasonable lease terms and rent compared to similar properties is what makes this building a non starter for so many.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Professor Woland » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:22 pm

There is an article from Omaha Magazine from December of 2017 called "Fancy Food In Historic Buildings" where she explained what happened. She was able to meet state and local requirements for the building, but things got hung up on the federal level. Before the federal approval came through, state requirements changed again necessitating a whole new plan. If you're curious about specifics I guess you could ask her, but it seems clear to me that some sort of historic status cost us a great restaurant in that building.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby GetUrban » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:06 pm

Professor Woland wrote:There is an article from Omaha Magazine from December of 2017 called "Fancy Food In Historic Buildings" where she explained what happened. She was able to meet state and local requirements for the building, but things got hung up on the federal level. Before the federal approval came through, state requirements changed again necessitating a whole new plan. If you're curious about specifics I guess you could ask her, but it seems clear to me that some sort of historic status cost us a great restaurant in that building.


I'll try to find the article for more detail, but it sounds like she was trying to meet the requirements to receive the Federal Historical Tax Credit (HTC)but was unable to get through the process. I'm sure it's not easy, but if you want the HTC, you have to play by their rules. So, without that 20% credit she didn't have the money to do the project. Don't blame the stinking historic building, just the hoops. By the way, the GOP's recently passed tax bill almost eliminated the HTC, but it was saved at the last minute, thankfully.

More HTC info:
https://savingplaces.org/historic-tax-credits#.Wl50ZKinGUk
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Professor Woland » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:26 pm

GetUrban wrote:
Professor Woland wrote:There is an article from Omaha Magazine from December of 2017 called "Fancy Food In Historic Buildings" where she explained what happened. She was able to meet state and local requirements for the building, but things got hung up on the federal level. Before the federal approval came through, state requirements changed again necessitating a whole new plan. If you're curious about specifics I guess you could ask her, but it seems clear to me that some sort of historic status cost us a great restaurant in that building.


I'll try to find the article for more detail, but it sounds like she was trying to meet the requirements to receive the Federal Historical Tax Credit (HTC)but was unable to get through the process. I'm sure it's not easy, but if you want the HTC, you have to play by their rules. So, without that 20% credit she didn't have the money to do the project. Don't blame the stinking historic building, just the hoops. By the way, the GOP's recently passed tax bill almost eliminated the HTC, but it was saved at the last minute, thankfully.

More HTC info:
https://savingplaces.org/historic-tax-credits#.Wl50ZKinGUk


The article doesn't mention tax credits, and the context of her comments doesn't suggest that she was after them. It's possible it was misreported, but if the article is accurate this incident didn't involve funding.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby GetUrban » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:09 pm

Professor Woland wrote:
GetUrban wrote:
Professor Woland wrote:There is an article from Omaha Magazine from December of 2017 called "Fancy Food In Historic Buildings" where she explained what happened. She was able to meet state and local requirements for the building, but things got hung up on the federal level. Before the federal approval came through, state requirements changed again necessitating a whole new plan. If you're curious about specifics I guess you could ask her, but it seems clear to me that some sort of historic status cost us a great restaurant in that building.


I'll try to find the article for more detail, but it sounds like she was trying to meet the requirements to receive the Federal Historical Tax Credit (HTC)but was unable to get through the process. I'm sure it's not easy, but if you want the HTC, you have to play by their rules. So, without that 20% credit she didn't have the money to do the project. Don't blame the stinking historic building, just the hoops. By the way, the GOP's recently passed tax bill almost eliminated the HTC, but it was saved at the last minute, thankfully.

More HTC info:
https://savingplaces.org/historic-tax-credits#.Wl50ZKinGUk


The article doesn't mention tax credits, and the context of her comments doesn't suggest that she was after them. It's possible it was misreported, but if the article is accurate this incident didn't involve funding.


Found the Omaha Mag article. http://omahamagazine.com/articles/fancy-food-in-historic-buildings/ Although they don’t mention the specific approval she was seeking, digging a little deeper, Dundee is designated as a Heritage Preservation District in Omaha, voted on by more than 51% of the neighborhood property owners/residents. As such, the Omaha Heritage Preservation Commission must issue a certificate of approval for proposed modifications to buildings within the District. The City Council can override the commission’s rulings. I’ll add a link to the heritage preservation rules when I get a chance. It’s hard to tell exactly what historic item hung them up, but it sounds like there were other problems too such as high rents and re-design/drawing costs and fees. The only Federal hang-up would be the Historic Tax Credit, if they were going for that, unless I'm missing something.

I can see how people could get upset about having to answer to a commision of preservation experts to get their approval. On the other hand, if people do things in the Distric that seriously detract from what made it special in the first place, everybody loses. Maybe more than a 51% vote for The designation should have been required such as 2/3.
If you look at some other neighborhoods out west that have design covenants governed by neighborhood association, they can be even more restrictive if you want to do anything different in the neighborhood.
Last edited by GetUrban on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Omaha Cowboy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:45 pm

Here is another link that may be relevant to the discussion. I found the information interesting at least. Here is a snippet from the 4 page piece:

"Landmark Designation Procedure for Individual Properties
Several kinds of properties are eligible for landmark designation. Single buildings, or a group of related buildings on a single lot or parcel of land, compose one category; structures, sites, and objects are additional categories of properties that may qualify for listing.

Application for designation for buildings, structures sites or objects may be made by the property owner, the Commission or the City Council. An owner considering landmark listing should first arrange for a pre-application meeting with the Commission staff. Staff members will inspect the property, if necessary, and provide the applicant with an assessment of its potential for Landmark designation. Where specific rehabilitation activities are planned, the staff will discuss proposed modifications and provide advice on what might be considered appropriate renovation, should designation be granted.

A property owner wishing to proceed with the designation will be given an application for landmark designation. The owner will be requested to provide a legal description of the property, a description of the property’s present and original appearance, and any other pertinent historical information. The staff will then assess the application, and if the property meets criteria, proceed with the application process by compiling a case file and nomination form."


https://landmark.cityofomaha.org/preservation-program

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby GetUrban » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:57 pm

Here's a link from the Omaha Municipal Code, Chapter 24- Planning, Article II LANDMARK HERITAGE PRESERVATION

https://library.municode.com/ne/omaha/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTIIMUCO_CH24PL_ARTIILAHEPR

further down in Article II, talking about what is allowed in the designated district...and the procedures.

https://library.municode.com/ne/omaha/c ... 4-65AMREDE

Sec. 24-81. - Same—Considerations for issuance.
The commission, in considering the appropriateness of any work, shall consider, among other things, the purposes of this article, the historical and architectural value and significance of the landmark or landmark heritage district, the texture, material and color of the building or structure in question or its appurtenant fixtures, including signs, and the relationship of such features to similar features of other buildings within a landmark heritage district, and the position of such building or structure in relation to the street or public way and to other buildings and structures.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings"
...and then they were gone.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Coyote » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:10 pm

I Put my money where my mouth was on this building and submitted an LOI. It was in |expletive| shape and the only way back was through TIF and Historical credits. The rent was still as high as ANYWHERE in town and the landlords Dad begged me to stay with it. In the end it was a |expletive| deal which is why J coco and others had to bag it. This was the only thing left to do. No one was interesed in doing the deal the way it shook out. I cant say the same for many other buildings in Omaha. An office in that space is a fail.


Just curious, I've known you through Nick, what concept where you imagining here?
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby onelocalfoods » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:47 pm

Coyote wrote:
I Put my money where my mouth was on this building and submitted an LOI. It was in |expletive| shape and the only way back was through TIF and Historical credits. The rent was still as high as ANYWHERE in town and the landlords Dad begged me to stay with it. In the end it was a |expletive| deal which is why J coco and others had to bag it. This was the only thing left to do. No one was interesed in doing the deal the way it shook out. I cant say the same for many other buildings in Omaha. An office in that space is a fail.


Just curious, I've known you through Nick, what concept where you imagining there


without getting too deep into it, a grown up cocktail lounge. with a private bar in the basement and service with music on the roof. a place to keep people in dundee before or after dinner.

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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby MadMartin8 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:07 pm

onelocalfoods wrote:
Coyote wrote:
I Put my money where my mouth was on this building and submitted an LOI. It was in |expletive| shape and the only way back was through TIF and Historical credits. The rent was still as high as ANYWHERE in town and the landlords Dad begged me to stay with it. In the end it was a |expletive| deal which is why J coco and others had to bag it. This was the only thing left to do. No one was interesed in doing the deal the way it shook out. I cant say the same for many other buildings in Omaha. An office in that space is a fail.


Just curious, I've known you through Nick, what concept where you imagining there


without getting too deep into it, a grown up cocktail lounge. with a private bar in the basement and service with music on the roof. a place to keep people in dundee before or after dinner.


Ah, bummer that didn't work out. :(
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Re: Beer and Loathing in Dundee

Postby Louie » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:48 pm

MadMartin8 wrote:
onelocalfoods wrote:
Coyote wrote:
I Put my money where my mouth was on this building and submitted an LOI. It was in |expletive| shape and the only way back was through TIF and Historical credits. The rent was still as high as ANYWHERE in town and the landlords Dad begged me to stay with it. In the end it was a |expletive| deal which is why J coco and others had to bag it. This was the only thing left to do. No one was interesed in doing the deal the way it shook out. I cant say the same for many other buildings in Omaha. An office in that space is a fail.


Just curious, I've known you through Nick, what concept where you imagining there


without getting too deep into it, a grown up cocktail lounge. with a private bar in the basement and service with music on the roof. a place to keep people in dundee before or after dinner.


Ah, bummer that didn't work out. :(

That would have been a hit, I'm sure.


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