Joe_Sovereign wrote:So are the CLink convention center expansion, parking Garage in Lot D and pedestrian bridge to the riverfront something that would happen simultaneously? Lot D parking structure has to happen before Lot B can be developed.
So what we may see is a master plan for CLink expansion, pedestrian bridge, and complete development plans for Lot B and Lot D. That is a master plan for about 17 blocks of downtown Omaha, Clink expansion and Bridge (1 block), Lot B (4 blocks), and Lot D (about 12 blocks). This is a hugely important plan they are making.
Quoting myself now.
The more I think about it Lot D for sure should be part of the Riverfront plan since it fronts the railroad tracks and connecting Fahey road to the river front is critical to either development. Basically what the City needs is a master plan for redevelopment of everything from Lot D to the riverfront, extending through Con Agra Campus, and Heartland of America Park. Including Parking in Lot D to open up Lot B development, connecting North Downtown to the River Front, covering the railroad tracks, extending Heartland of America park to the river, extending the riverfront boardwalk from Lewis Clark landing all the way to the power plant apartments, building a street grid in the Con Agra Campus and in Lot D, extending Old Market into the Con Agra Campus, Lot D development to include retail, residential, and office.
Dundeeomaha wrote:Let's use 500 spaces as an example: at 18k per space a garage costs 9mil. With 20% down 5% interest on a 15 year term that's just over $3 million in interest payments. Not to mention the maintenance costs for the unproductive grass (read weed filled) lots didn't go away just because there weren't parking spaces.
Cost to build 500 surface lot spaces: $2 million
So yes it can be more expensive.
NEDodger wrote:Gotta agree with Dundeemaha here. CenturyLink Omaha opened in 2003, but you've got to look at the design/plan phase of it so you're talking more like ~17 years ago. No need to put all the extra money up front for the "hope" that all of north downtown is rapidly developed and that we need a parking garage - keep in mind the enormous expanse of land we're talking about. CenturyLink was the first domino to fall. There was a lot of garbage land that had to be cleared out anyways, be it as surface lots or empty gravel lots. It would have made even less sense to have built a costly parking garage at the time while there was a square mile of destitute land surrounding the place
Greg S wrote:In addition to need, there was no more money years ago to build the garage, they were pretty tapped out on everything else.
Right, it makes sense that they wouldn't build a garage back when the Century Link Center was first built if they didn't have the money to do so (no Nickelback profits yet, as I mentioned). But they'll still be putting more money into parking facilities by building surface lots, tearing them down, building new ones, tearing those down and building a garage as opposed to just building a garage. If this area is going to take off, and I'm sure they planned for it to back in 2003, a garage is not an "if" but a "when." Yes, if you have a surface lot your vegetation maintenance costs are lower as there wouldn't be a field of weeds. However, your snow and ice removal costs are higher as you don't need to clear snow and ice from a garage except the top level.
My main point was that if they had the money to spring for the garage (which apparently they didn't), they should have. That's the essence of urban planning. You plan for 17 years from now when things are more swinging, not so much for the present day.
Last edited by TitosBuritoBarn on Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Video game violence is not a new problem. Who could forget in the wake of SimCity how children everywhere took up urban planning." - Stephen Colbert
choke wrote:I think they oughta keep the name LOT B when developed.
Too bad Lncoln already has the name rail yard. It would be nice to do homage with something like the Rail Shops...
I'd be down with that. Omaha does headquarter UP (for now at least). Some kind of homage to the railroad, extend what they have coming in off of tenth street.
Coyote wrote:After looking for a while I gave up... Does anyone have a map showing where the Railyard Shops were?
Ye Olde Railyard Shoppes that is.
The old UP Yard shops were roughly 9th - 10th St around Cass - California. I have a copy of a map of downtown that shows everything block by block and what was on them at that time, map is from 1916
I had not seen this 1895 photo before :
"ladder leans against a brick building in the foreground of this photograph of the Union Pacific shops, 8th to 13th Streets, Davenport Street to Nicholas Street, Omaha, Nebraska."
Am I the only one that thinks the city should focus on The Civic, riverfront and Wall Street sites before they add another huge block to the mix? Seems to me like there is too much going on with too little attention being paid amongst them. It just seems to me like we love to put great ideas on paper but the effort always comes up way short. I'd rather see one or two big wins vs a bunch of half assed projects.
OmahaJaysCU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks the city should focus on The Civic, riverfront and Wall Street sites before they add another huge block to the mix? Seems to me like there is too much going on with too little attention being paid amongst them. It just seems to me like we love to put great ideas on paper but the effort always comes up way short. I'd rather see one or two big wins vs a bunch of half assed projects.
I think it is fine as long as they don't try to rush and get everything done without the demand and end up with sub par, empty buildings throughout downtown.
Hurry up an wait on this. Always fun to see some images though.
But don’t expect to see a groundbreaking anytime soon. The report lays out next steps, which include further studies on traffic and the construction of new parking facilities, that would probably take at least three years. And the city hasn’t identified a developer to take on the project, said Mayor Jean Stothert.
The committee suggested that the city and MECA now form an agreement to sort out potential design restrictions for the site and guide any development.
The concept that the committee designated as the “preferred” design contains a diagonal street running from the entrance of the convention center to the ballpark. There would be a park surrounded by restaurants directly across from TD Ameritrade, and the civic institution would be along the diagonal street and visible from 10th Street.
The development has the potential to bring tax money, jobs and activities to Omaha. And it could help the city attract conventions at the CenturyLink Center, Dixon said, because convention attendees often ask for more places to go near the center.
Hurry up an wait on this. Always fun to see some images though.
But don’t expect to see a groundbreaking anytime soon. The report lays out next steps, which include further studies on traffic and the construction of new parking facilities, that would probably take at least three years. And the city hasn’t identified a developer to take on the project, said Mayor Jean Stothert.
The committee suggested that the city and MECA now form an agreement to sort out potential design restrictions for the site and guide any development.
The concept that the committee designated as the “preferred” design contains a diagonal street running from the entrance of the convention center to the ballpark. There would be a park surrounded by restaurants directly across from TD Ameritrade, and the civic institution would be along the diagonal street and visible from 10th Street.
The development has the potential to bring tax money, jobs and activities to Omaha. And it could help the city attract conventions at the CenturyLink Center, Dixon said, because convention attendees often ask for more places to go near the center.
Wow, that's going to be a long while. Would have thought there was more urgency.
Honestly though, these things never seem to go fast around here. Maybe we are finally getting a realistic time table, vs announcements then hearing about delays.
I like the diagonal street going south east to north west but the other street joining it with the weird Y intersection and then connecting out in a single exit seems a poor design. I imagine before and after an event the bumper to bumper traffic on these streets and people getting stuck for 20 minutes trying to drive 2 blocks will turn a lot of people off and distract from the enjoyment of the area.
The story doesn't really make it clear since they never actually use the tern Lot D in the story, but it seems like the parking in Lot B is only for the development and the replacement parking spots are still in a Lot D parking garage. I didn't really understand what they were talking about with parking in the story until I saw this.
The Construction order is going to be interesting. Obviously the Lot D Parking Garage would have to come first but there will be less over all parking while this is under construction.
If Lot B is built out in phases as the article suggests I imagine the Parking Garage with the Residential surrounding it would have to be first right after or simultaneous with the roads and the public plazas and green spaces. The other strange shaped lots I guess will be green spaces or surface parking or vacant lots for a while. Making surface parking lots or nice usable green spaces take money to build and maintain but minimally maintained vacant lots are not going to look good on TV.
admiralArchArch wrote:How many of these "entertainment districts" can this city sustain?
If you cut through the tagline it's just an area with a few bars and restaurants where you can drink outside. So I'd say the city can sustain quite a few...
admiralArchArch wrote:How many of these "entertainment districts" can this city sustain?
How many "entertainment districts" does Omaha currently have? This is needed. I work parking sometimes and people want to leave the Clink for lunch and come back. They get upset when they find out they have to pay 8 dollars to park again if they leave the lot. There needs to be more restaurants near the Clink.
admiralArchArch wrote:How many of these "entertainment districts" can this city sustain?
How many "entertainment districts" does Omaha currently have? This is needed. I work parking sometimes and people want to leave the Clink for lunch and come back. They get upset when they find out they have to pay 8 dollars to park again if they leave the lot. There needs to be more restaurants near the Clink.
The area around Clink and the park is a wasteland of parking lots. More development around this area will be a great thing. I don't think this would even qualify as a "new" entertainment district since it will help unify the existing North Downtown developments into this area.
Unfortunately the vacuum border of I-480 means that this part of the city is forever cut off from downtown and the new Captiol st. district and that any development in this area will have to be essentially self-sustaining.
admiralArchArch wrote:How many of these "entertainment districts" can this city sustain?
How many "entertainment districts" does Omaha currently have? This is needed. I work parking sometimes and people want to leave the Clink for lunch and come back. They get upset when they find out they have to pay 8 dollars to park again if they leave the lot. There needs to be more restaurants near the Clink.
The area around Clink and the park is a wasteland of parking lots. More development around this area will be a great thing. I don't think this would even qualify as a "new" entertainment district since it will help unify the existing North Downtown developments into this area.
Unfortunately the vacuum border of I-480 means that this part of the city is forever cut off from downtown and the new Captiol st. district and that any development in this area will have to be essentially self-sustaining.
Who's going to stand under 480 and exclaim "Ms. Stothert, tear down this highway!"
admiralArchArch wrote:How many of these "entertainment districts" can this city sustain?
Without considering the events at the Clink or AmeriTrade, just between developments at The Yard, The Capital District, Alvine and Lot B you would have maybe 1000 residential units (maybe 2000 to 3000 residents), over 500 hotel rooms, and over 1000 office workers net new in a few blocks.
Joe_Sovereign wrote:I like the diagonal street going south east to north west but the other street joining it with the weird Y intersection and then connecting out in a single exit seems a poor design. I imagine before and after an event the bumper to bumper traffic on these streets and people getting stuck for 20 minutes trying to drive 2 blocks will turn a lot of people off and distract from the enjoyment of the area.
From visiting similar designs in other cities, they usually close those roads off so they are pedestrian only during events.
MTO wrote:Side question; why build a parking garage directly in front of the baby bob?
With where they are building the garage, the Baby Bob landing would flow directly north of the garage.
They should set-back the Lot D parking garage from Fahey St. furher to the north so that the south side of the garage aligns with the south side of TDA to the west. Then the entrance to the Baby Bob could align with the wider sidewalk on the north side of Fahey St., as it really should. No reason to have Baby Bob come in to the north between the garage and remaining part of Lot D, or whatever gets built there eventually.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
MTO wrote:Side question; why build a parking garage directly in front of the baby bob?
With where they are building the garage, the Baby Bob landing would flow directly north of the garage.
They should set-back the Lot D parking garage from Fahey St. furher to the north so that the south side of the garage aligns with the south side of TDA to the west. Then the entrance to the Baby Bob could align with the wider sidewalk on the north side of Fahey St., as it really should. No reason to have Baby Bob come in to the north between the garage and remaining part of Lot D, or whatever gets built there eventually.
I thought the baby Bob's plaza dumbed into MECA Dr/Mike FaHey St which would put the sight lines between the convention center and this garage. It just seams like the city wanted a bigger presence for the bridge which would make more sense to put the Lot D garage further north.
MTO wrote:Side question; why build a parking garage directly in front of the baby bob?
With where they are building the garage, the Baby Bob landing would flow directly north of the garage.
They should set-back the Lot D parking garage from Fahey St. furher to the north so that the south side of the garage aligns with the south side of TDA to the west. Then the entrance to the Baby Bob could align with the wider sidewalk on the north side of Fahey St., as it really should. No reason to have Baby Bob come in to the north between the garage and remaining part of Lot D, or whatever gets built there eventually.
I thought the baby Bob's plaza dumbed into MECA Dr/Mike FaHey St which would put the sight lines between the convention center and this garage. It just seams like the city wanted a bigger presence for the bridge which would make more sense to put the Lot D garage further north.
I would hope before they build the Parking Garage in Lot D they have a master plan for Lot D development as well. There is no reason Lot D can't be developed like Lot B even if it is required to include 2 or 3 massive parking garages.
Maybe the should build the CenturyLink and Ameritrade parking garages overtop of the Railroad Tracks.
MTO wrote:Side question; why build a parking garage directly in front of the baby bob?
With where they are building the garage, the Baby Bob landing would flow directly north of the garage.
They should set-back the Lot D parking garage from Fahey St. furher to the north so that the south side of the garage aligns with the south side of TDA to the west. Then the entrance to the Baby Bob could align with the wider sidewalk on the north side of Fahey St., as it really should. No reason to have Baby Bob come in to the north between the garage and remaining part of Lot D, or whatever gets built there eventually.
I thought the baby Bob's plaza dumbed into MECA Dr/Mike FaHey St which would put the sight lines between the convention center and this garage. It just seams like the city wanted a bigger presence for the bridge which would make more sense to put the Lot D garage further north.
I would hope before they build the Parking Garage in Lot D they have a master plan for Lot D development as well. There is no reason Lot D can't be developed like Lot B even if it is required to include 2 or 3 massive parking garages.
Maybe the should build the CenturyLink and Ameritrade parking garages overtop of the Railroad Tracks.
I'm not an engineer but i think building parking facilities over train tracks sounds pretty easy.
MTO wrote:Side question; why build a parking garage directly in front of the baby bob?
With where they are building the garage, the Baby Bob landing would flow directly north of the garage.
They should set-back the Lot D parking garage from Fahey St. furher to the north so that the south side of the garage aligns with the south side of TDA to the west. Then the entrance to the Baby Bob could align with the wider sidewalk on the north side of Fahey St., as it really should. No reason to have Baby Bob come in to the north between the garage and remaining part of Lot D, or whatever gets built there eventually.
I thought the baby Bob's plaza dumbed into MECA Dr/Mike FaHey St which would put the sight lines between the convention center and this garage. It just seams like the city wanted a bigger presence for the bridge which would make more sense to put the Lot D garage further north.
I think we're almost on the same page on this one. There is a strong axis with a wide pedestrian walkway along the north side of Fahey which should continue on to the Baby Bob. The south side of the new Lot D parking garage should follow the same set-backs off Fayhey as the TDA. Vehicle traffic would still need access back around the northeast corner of the CLINK and be kept separate from Ped traffic. The view of the main Bob from Fahey should definitely be maintained and enhanced. I don't remember what all the options looked like for baby bobby....I'll have to go back and look.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
Greg S wrote:Honestly though, these things never seem to go fast around here. Maybe we are finally getting a realistic time table, vs announcements then hearing about delays.