Local Gas Prices

[S33]

Thatta boy, Ben. Ur the man. Also people, don't forget that these huge domestic oil companies and our demand are our only leverage on the world oil market. We do not want too weeken Exxon and friends at all. Keep in mind, these oil companies are getting screwed anyway as they are taxed 49cents on the dollar. It's not their fault they are making windfall profits. It just happens to be a commodity that is very profitable. On day the same will be said for corn and soy.

thanks again Ben for bringing logic into this thread.

I don't know if you're being serious or sarcastic, but it doesn't matter with regards to the question I'm about to ask:

What exactly is a "windfall profit"? At what point does a profit turn from "the reason a company does business" to "excessive"?

Actually was being serious. Anyway, I think "Windfall" these days is different from when it was derived in the early 80's. Now I think its just a term widely used because the left and the media pushed it so hard and now they claim the term windfall only applies when considering gross profit in regards to oil companies only. Little do them dumbasses know Exxons profit MARGIN stands around 10% in 07' which is slightly above average. (Maybe they're just good at what they do, just like Wal-Mart) Now that the Anheuser-Busch Companies are sellouts maybe we should charge them a windfall tax as they're profit margins are close to 20%? Next time any of you buy beer just remember gas is a better value.

With all that said, yeah I guess I miss-used the term windfall.

[Big E]

Margin dollars and margin percent are two separate things, and if you look at one without understanding it's relationship to the other, you and your business are done. Why is margin percentage largely irrelevant, you ask? Ever tried to deposit a check for 10%? I'd rather deposit a check for $10, thanks.

The fact that oil companies are making record profits on their tiny margin percentage should be the biggest red flag to us as consumers. That and the recent $4 gas underscores just how directly our economy is tied to said oil.

Now, as one of those left wing dumbasses (and please, lets not act like its some liberal media conspiracy solely going after the oil companies), I'm going to say that any sort of "windfall" tax is beyond stupid and does nothing to solve the real problem (in this case, our dependency on oil). If we tax Exxon's $11B profit last quarter, do we suddenly start using half as much gas? Not hardly.

The oil companies making money is only an issue if they are manipulating/stifling the free market. The same philosophy should be applied to the WalMarts and Microsofts of the world, as well. Frankly, if one is against a company making money one is a dip |expletive|. HOW they make the money is where you should take issue.

[S33]

Margin dollars and margin percent are two separate things, and if you look at one without understanding it's relationship to the other, you and your business are done. Why is margin percentage largely irrelevant, you ask? Ever tried to deposit a check for 10%? I'd rather deposit a check for $10, thanks.

The fact that oil companies are making record profits on their tiny margin percentage should be the biggest red flag to us as consumers. That and the recent $4 gas underscores just how directly our economy is tied to said oil.

Now, as one of those left wing dumbasses (and please, lets not act like its some liberal media conspiracy solely going after the oil companies), I'm going to say that any sort of "windfall" tax is beyond stupid and does nothing to solve the real problem (in this case, our dependency on oil). The oil companies making money is only an issue if they are manipulating/stifling the free market. The same philosophy should be applied to the WalMarts and Microsofts of the world, as well. Frankly, if one is against a company making money one is a dip |expletive|. HOW they make the money is where you should take issue.

Umm, yeah.
That was my whole point. Makes no sense to tax a windfall profit when the margins are in line w/what they should be. This isn't China.

I think we all know the left and the right stand about as far apart on oil issues as they can....

[joeglow]

Thatta boy, Ben. Ur the man. Also people, don't forget that these huge domestic oil companies and our demand are our only leverage on the world oil market. We do not want too weeken Exxon and friends at all. Keep in mind, these oil companies are getting screwed anyway as they are taxed 49cents on the dollar. It's not their fault they are making windfall profits. It just happens to be a commodity that is very profitable. On day the same will be said for corn and soy.

thanks again Ben for bringing logic into this thread.

I don't know if you're being serious or sarcastic, but it doesn't matter with regards to the question I'm about to ask:

What exactly is a "windfall profit"? At what point does a profit turn from "the reason a company does business" to "excessive"?

I think a windfall profit is the US Government already making a |expletive| TON more than any oil company OFF OF THEIR oil. Seriously, the US government does NOTHING to produce the product, yet between income taxes and gasoline taxes, makes MUCH MUCH MUCH more than the oil companies do.

And, I must say I am shocked at the number of people pointing out the low profit margins of the companies and the impact rising commodities usually have on the producers of the product. It seems a few months ago there were few people pointing out the facts.

[Louie]

They're not really using less cars. Beijing only is cutting down on traffic. You have to remember it is a country of over 1bill people.

To reduce pollution.

yeah, i heard they also shut down some of the larger industrial plants for the month leading up to the olympics

[Big E]

And, I must say I am shocked at the number of people pointing out the low profit margins of the companies and the impact rising commodities usually have on the producers of the product. It seems a few months ago there were few people pointing out the facts.

Hey, when I was pointing out what was happening to the commodity markets (specifically corn, wheat and soy) due to the cost of fuel I was called un-American, Communist, Facist, Lou Dobbs and everything in between. Anyway...

Let's not get all woe is me for the poor oil company's and their low operating margins, though. With the volumes they're dealing with, the overwhelming beneficial impact of their fixed costs (you think there wouldn't be more refineries if they really wanted them?), crude oil at all time highs, and the simple fact that 99% of this country couldn't dream of ever parting with their beloved almighty giver-of-life-and-reason-to-be automobiles they SHOULD be turning in record profits. Heck, if they WEREN'T making record profits they should be investigated.

The simple fact is they have us all by the nuts and we love them for it.

I'm still against a windfall tax. (Consumption tax is a different story, although I'm not sure how to make it equitable yet.)

[Big E]

yeah, i heard they also shut down some of the larger industrial plants for the month leading up to the olympics

True story. There are about half a dozen ingredients we carry that impact probably 15-20% of our volume. Those products are simply not being made right now, and it's going to take the better part of a year after they start back up to refill the global pipeline.

[nativeomahan]

FYI, I just returned from California, where I paid $4.60 a gallon this past weekend. For basic unleaded.

[Big E]

FYI, I just returned from California, where I paid $4.60 a gallon this past weekend. For basic unleaded.

The press has been making a big deal about 24+ straight days of lower national average gas prices. Guess what? Oil is still 20% higher than it was when we were all flipping out when it $100 barrel for the first time.

$3.25-$3.50 doesn't look so bad when you've been paying $4+. And don't think that ain't part of the plan.

[Stargazer]

Do you suppose prices will bottom out in the first week in November?

[OmahaJaysCU]

Do you suppose prices will bottom out in the first week in November?

Then rise sharply on a certain Wednesday maybe?

[Omababe]

The problem is, the industry now has the Great Unwashed Masses conditioned to think of $3.50-ish gas as reasonable, compared to that run-up to $4.00 over the past months!

They, and "they" meaning everyone from the ones pumping from the ground to the ones allowing us to pump into our tank, are making boatloads-o-bucks and it's coming out of our pocketbooks!

[joebob12]

The problem is, the industry now has the Great Unwashed Masses conditioned to think of $3.50-ish gas as reasonable, compared to that run-up to $4.00 over the past months!

They, and "they" meaning everyone from the ones pumping from the ground to the ones allowing us to pump into our tank, are making boatloads-o-bucks and it's coming out of our pocketbooks!

Hey, you're on omahagasprices.com!

[OmahaBen]

The problem is, the industry now has the Great Unwashed Masses conditioned to think of $3.50-ish gas as reasonable, compared to that run-up to $4.00 over the past months!

They, and "they" meaning everyone from the ones pumping from the ground to the ones allowing us to pump into our tank, are making boatloads-o-bucks and it's coming out of our pocketbooks!

Then do something about it. Car pool, ride a bike, walk to work. Quit freaking whining about companies actually being profitable and doing what they are supposed to be doing.

And if you think gas station owners get rich off the gas pumps, you're insane. They make their money on either repairs (if they have an attached garage) or the convience store inside w/ the registers.

[Bugeater]

LOL, I love it when people play the "ride a bike" card. First of all, this city is not bicycle friendly, the sidewalks are mostly in various states of disrepair and it is very hilly and drivers do not watch out for bicyclists. Second of all, how many employers want you to show up to work all sweaty from huffing through the streets in the summertime? What about in the winter? You expect people to ride through snow and across ice? It may be viable for some people at times, but it's not a realistic option for most.

[joebob12]

The problem is, the industry now has the Great Unwashed Masses conditioned to think of $3.50-ish gas as reasonable, compared to that run-up to $4.00 over the past months!

They, and "they" meaning everyone from the ones pumping from the ground to the ones allowing us to pump into our tank, are making boatloads-o-bucks and it's coming out of our pocketbooks!

Then do something about it. Car pool, ride a bike, walk to work. Quit freaking whining about companies actually being profitable and doing what they are supposed to be doing.

And if you think gas station owners get rich off the gas pumps, you're insane. They make their money on either repairs (if they have an attached garage) or the convience store inside w/ the registers.

They should make a profit. Even a large profit, but their comes a point when that profit might come at large expense to your customers and if you don't recognize that fact, you're customers will find a way to not use your product. Of course it will take years and years for this to happen but it will happen.

By the way, I wonder what you would say if everyone suddenly raised the price of water triple the price it currently is. I mean, companies are only to make money right?

[OmahaBen]

LOL, I love it when people play the "ride a bike" card. First of all, this city is not bicycle friendly, the sidewalks are mostly in various states of disrepair and it is very hilly and drivers do not watch out for bicyclists. Second of all, how many employers want you to show up to work all sweaty from huffing through the streets in the summertime? What about in the winter? You expect people to ride through snow and across ice? It may be viable for some people at times, but it's not a realistic option for most.

Way to pick out one part of my post while ignoring the rest.

There are plenty of ways to save $$$ on gas, and whining about the unfairness of a company doing what it is meant to do is not one of them.

[OmahaBen]

The problem is, the industry now has the Great Unwashed Masses conditioned to think of $3.50-ish gas as reasonable, compared to that run-up to $4.00 over the past months!

They, and "they" meaning everyone from the ones pumping from the ground to the ones allowing us to pump into our tank, are making boatloads-o-bucks and it's coming out of our pocketbooks!

Then do something about it. Car pool, ride a bike, walk to work. Quit freaking whining about companies actually being profitable and doing what they are supposed to be doing.

And if you think gas station owners get rich off the gas pumps, you're insane. They make their money on either repairs (if they have an attached garage) or the convience store inside w/ the registers.

They should make a profit. Even a large profit, but their comes a point when that profit might come at large expense to your customers and if you don't recognize that fact, you're customers will find a way to not use your product. Of course it will take years and years for this to happen but it will happen.

By the way, I wonder what you would say if everyone suddenly raised the price of water triple the price it currently is. I mean, companies are only to make money right?

Considering numerous people spend $1.50 for bottled water rather than drinking the one cent glass of water from their tap, if the price of water tripled it wouldn't hurt very many people. Plus MUD and OPPD are public non-profit entities, so their goal is public service, not profit making.

As to your first point, that's the way a market works. I have no problem with that. It shows people responding and adjusting to the market, not sitting around whining about it without changing their habits.

[Erik]

LOL, I love it when people play the "ride a bike" card. First of all, this city is not bicycle friendly, the sidewalks are mostly in various states of disrepair and it is very hilly and drivers do not watch out for bicyclists. Second of all, how many employers want you to show up to work all sweaty from huffing through the streets in the summertime? What about in the winter? You expect people to ride through snow and across ice? It may be viable for some people at times, but it's not a realistic option for most.

Way to pick out one part of my post while ignoring the rest.

There are plenty of ways to save $$$ on gas, and whining about the unfairness of a company doing what it is meant to do is not one of them.

Didn't you know, Bugeater has to prove himself over and over as the 'Oracle of Logic'

Thank you Bugeater, for choosing bits and pieces of what we all say and turning it into logic that makes us look silly. With you we learn more about
ourselves every day.. Peace, my Oracle..

[almighty_tuna]

MUD ... their goal is public service.

I don't get it.

[Bugeater]

LOL, I love it when people play the "ride a bike" card. First of all, this city is not bicycle friendly, the sidewalks are mostly in various states of disrepair and it is very hilly and drivers do not watch out for bicyclists. Second of all, how many employers want you to show up to work all sweaty from huffing through the streets in the summertime? What about in the winter? You expect people to ride through snow and across ice? It may be viable for some people at times, but it's not a realistic option for most.

Way to pick out one part of my post while ignoring the rest.

There are plenty of ways to save $$$ on gas, and whining about the unfairness of a company doing what it is meant to do is not one of them.

Actually, that was the only part of your post that I took issue with because I agree with everything else you said, I didn't realize it was necessary to point that out but I will be sure to do so in the future. And it's not just you, I've heard that over and over and I think it's ridiculous. Now if you really wanted to give people advice that they could realistically apply to their life, you'd tell them to not race from stoplight to stoplight like 90% of the asshats on the road do.

[Bugeater]

LOL, I love it when people play the "ride a bike" card. First of all, this city is not bicycle friendly, the sidewalks are mostly in various states of disrepair and it is very hilly and drivers do not watch out for bicyclists. Second of all, how many employers want you to show up to work all sweaty from huffing through the streets in the summertime? What about in the winter? You expect people to ride through snow and across ice? It may be viable for some people at times, but it's not a realistic option for most.

Way to pick out one part of my post while ignoring the rest.

There are plenty of ways to save $$$ on gas, and whining about the unfairness of a company doing what it is meant to do is not one of them.

Didn't you know, Bugeater has to prove himself over and over as the 'Oracle of Logic'

Thank you Bugeater, for choosing bits and pieces of what we all say and turning it into logic that makes us look silly. With you we learn more about
ourselves every day.. Peace, my Oracle..

If all else fails, go for the personal attack. And this coming from the guy who started a thread stating he wasn't going to disrupt the board anymore. I guess old habits die hard.

[Big E]

Hey look! It isn't me this time!











(Yet.)

[OmahaJaysCU]

Here we go again...

I think I will just stay out of it from now on. Most people here clearly disagree with me, why force it.

[Omababe]

Here we go again...

I think I will just stay out of it from now on. Most people here clearly disagree with me, why force it.

As I've said, opinions on fuel prices seem to closely follow the great Red/Blue divide which unites us all!

[Stargazer]

There are plenty of ways to save $$$ on gas, and whining about the unfairness of a company doing what it is meant to do is not one of them.

True, but then I'm not sure there's another consumer product which also has such an influence on our long term national security. The vast majority of our nation's wealth has left us by way of the gas pump. I don't hold much hope for our turning the tide on this dilemma if it's left up to each American to figure on their own how to find alternatives to imported oil.

[OmahaBen]

I don't hold much hope for our turning the tide on this dilemma if it's left up to each American to figure on their own how to find alternatives to imported oil.

Why not? There's evidence out there that people are already reducing their driving and other travel due to the higher price of gas, thereby reducing demand and need for imported oil somewhat. Seems to me the average American is finding a way to make do.

[Stargazer]

I'm not talking about enabling the average American family to 'made do'. I'm talking about the national security of the entire country as a whole. Do you not see the vulnerability we face in depending on foreign sources for 70% of our oil?

Incremental, market driven responses by the American consumer aren't going to address the urgent situation which we face -today-. We're whistling in the dark here. There need to be sweeping, fundamental changes made to force our economy towards significantly less foreign oil dependency... soon.

[joeglow]

Here we go again...

I think I will just stay out of it from now on. Most people here clearly disagree with me, why force it.

As I've said, opinions on fuel prices seem to closely follow the great Red/Blue divide which unites us all!

I agree. Some people think we are useless creatures and need a benevolent government to take care of us and others believe in a free enterprise society. As has been pointed out here, if you don't like gas prices, use less. That is exactly what we as a country did and prices came down.

[Omababe]

People tell me that I'm on drugs when I say there's some local game-playing with gas prices!

Today on the way in I'm finding almost all stations popped to EXACTLY $3.59 overnight! I saw one station at $3.56 and one, Eddy's at 120th and Fort (apparently have not changed the sign yet) still at $3.44. (Yes, I topped off!)

Bloomberg is reporting that crude is trading $113-ish this morning and RBOB futures are around $2.86 per gallon, so nobody can say that oil prices are up or somebody in the Middle East woke up on the wrong side of the bed today!

Somebody somehow gave the word as to when and how much! It's very obvious now.

Comments?

[nebugeater]

The "one price for all" is not as bad here, but it does exist, as it was in Cedar Rapids IA for the 10 years I lived there. Every station would be the exact same price except for the Sinclair stations. They were always .01 more. If there was a change in price all stations would be changed within an hour. Some times it was an overnight change but many time it was during the day. There were plenty of stations with manual pricing boards rather than electronic and it was common to see two competing stations with someone out with a pole changing their price at the same time, even if they were not within sight of each other. Funny how that could happen. :roll:
Another thing was that the price in CR never changed from Friday afternoon to Monday morning. I guess all the parties were not available for their conference calls on the weekend!

[Omababe]

The morning prices are now coming in on OmahaGasPrices (http://www.omahagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=B) and it's obvious that many stations, but not all, have popped to the $3.59 level. Some are still holding in the $3.43-3.44-ish range.

The "one price for all" is not as bad here, but it does exist, as it was in Cedar Rapids IA for the 10 years I lived there.

Until the rapid run-up a few months ago, I admit I didn't pay that much attention to gas prices. When that nauseating cliche "pain at the pump" started affecting me, I did find myself watching local prices, as well as the two commodity prices that most affect retail fuel cost, and (dangerous I know) thinking more about the "why" of it.

Another thing was that the price in CR never changed from Friday afternoon to Monday morning. I guess all the parties were not available for their conference calls on the weekend!

If you look at Omaha gas prices over the last few months, you will see that the sharp "pops" in price often (but not always) occur on Friday morning. Until the recent slack-off, there was a fuzzy pattern of a two-week cycle in there.

Contrary to what you report about Cedar Rapids, once the pop occurs, the trickle-down takes effect immediately, even on the weekend.



This graph is "regular" gas, so these prices are somewhat higher than the posted prices. One thing I've learned since joining the gas board is that Omaha is one of the places where so-called "mid-grade" is usually lower than so-called "regular" gas.

[Coyote]

I noticed that this morning also. On the way home from work last night at 9:00 pm my La Vista Casey's was still $3.44 but at 7:30 this morning on my way in it was $3.59. This morning in Blair - which because of a monopoly is usually .10 higher than Omaha - is also $3.59

[S33]

Here we go again...

I think I will just stay out of it from now on. Most people here clearly disagree with me, why force it.

As I've said, opinions on fuel prices seem to closely follow the great Red/Blue divide which unites us all!

I agree. Some people think we are useless creatures and need a benevolent government to take care of us and others believe in a free enterprise society. As has been pointed out here, if you don't like gas prices, use less. That is exactly what we as a country did and prices came down.

I agree with using less. You can't go wrong with that. But the problem was that we were forced to use less. When an economy is forced to use less energy due to the cost the economy weakens and contracts. We are in no better shape with 3.50/gal now than we were 4/gal.

[Big E]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/19/news/ec ... tm?cnn=yes

As angry voters spark a barrage of energy bills in Congress, the oil industry is spending record amounts of money protecting its interests.

In what may be surprising to some, the most recent figures from the Center for Responsive Politics show that the oil industry gives a relatively small sum to individual political campaigns - it's 16th on a list of top 50 industries.

But when it comes to lobbying - and spending money that goes toward researching, writing and convincing lawmakers to vote its way - the industry ranks fifth. If the spending continues at the current pace, the industry is set to break last year's $83 million record.

The amount spent on lobbying by the industry, along with lobbying money in general, has been setting records since 2005.

Here's a thought... instead of taxing the profits, tax the contributions that are above and beyond the allowable amounts to any campaign, PAC, or party. Thoughts?

[Uffda]

I made a trip up to sioux falls this past weekend --- Gas here when I left was around 3.56. In sioux falls it was 3.44 and at a Kum & Go outside Elk Point SD it was 3.33. I get back here and price has dropped to I saw 3.42 this morning

[Big E]

It was still over $4.30 / gallon in most of San Francisco this last weekend.

Isn't it pathetic that we think ±$3.40/g is somehow affordable all of a sudden?

[Omababe]

I made a trip up to sioux falls this past weekend --- Gas here when I left was around 3.56. In sioux falls it was 3.44 and at a Kum & Go outside Elk Point SD it was 3.33. I get back here and price has dropped to I saw 3.42 this morning

This morning's reports are showing $3.39-ish in the Millard area.

That run-up on Friday was an obvious attempt to boost the "suggested list price" here in the Omaha market. It didn't work, as some stations boosted, but not to the agreed-upon price, and some stayed low. If you look at the graphs, now that things have settled, it was very obvious what was going on!

[Omababe]

Isn't it pathetic that we think ±$3.40/g is somehow affordable all of a sudden?

That's what the Powers That Be want us to think!

They are making obscene profits and have us conditioned to the current still-outlandish prices.

The big thing is that they now know exactly where the "knee" or "kink" in the demand curve is, as this summer has shown that it occurs right around the $4.00 point. They can now use that factor to maximize their profits.

What also annoys me is that some alternative energy advocates are actually saying that they wish prices to remain high, as to discourage use! That's not helping the situation at all!

[Big E]

What also annoys me is that some alternative energy advocates are actually saying that they wish prices to remain high, as to discourage use!(

I'm actually steadfastly in that group, assuming that the cost is run up by real market conditions and not market manipulation. (For clarification, I would consider taxes market conditions as opposed to manipulation.) Best thing that could happen to this country is $10 gas.

It's pretty obvious to me that we the people, as a population, are not smart enough to A) elect leaders that will make any effective changes in our energy policy, and B) do anything on our own unless we simply can't afford to keep doing it the way we've always done it.