Werner Park - Sarpy County/Royals Stadium

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:15 pm

Big E wrote:I wish. I'd kill for a 32 inch waist again.

I used an old picture of you. You should be happy.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:06 pm

joeglow wrote:I WANT it in Sarpy County. I would love to take my boys to 10-12 games a year. However, I am not going to get off work downtown, drive home, load the kids up, drive back downtown, and pay $6 to park. The simple fact is that the Royal's target demographic is out west and this move would more sense for them no matter the stadium being built for them downtown. And I don't care how much worse the driving is in other cities, or how I should not live out west, etc.

I didn't know that.. I guess it makes sense to have it in sarpy county if their fans live in the suburbs..

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:30 pm

joeglow wrote:The simple fact is that the Royal's target demographic is out west and this move would more sense for them no matter the stadium being built for them downtown. . .

Really? All the baseball fans live in west Omaha? Wow, I had no idea....

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:42 pm

icejammer wrote:Really? All the baseball fans live in west Omaha? Wow, I had no idea....

They have the good public schools, so, obviously, they are the only ones that can figure out how to fill out a scorecard.

HskrFanMike · Post by **HskrFanMike** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:26 pm

joeglow wrote:I WANT it in Sarpy County. I would love to take my boys to 10-12 games a year. However, I am not going to get off work downtown, drive home, load the kids up, drive back downtown, and pay $6 to park. The simple fact is that the Royal's target demographic is out west and this move would more sense for them no matter the stadium being built for them downtown. And I don't care how much worse the driving is in other cities, or how I should not live out west, etc.

I live in northwest Omaha, and I mapped the downtown stadium and the previously suggested stadium site by Cabelas (now dead). The difference in travel time between downtown and the Cabelas site was about five minutes. And since there is only one interchange at Cabelas (vs. three downtown), I figure that the time difference is likely a wash.

Moving southwest towards 370 improves interstate access (hwy 50 and hwy 370), but further increases the distance.

I would argue that the only people that see a benefit by relocating the stadium to Sarpy County are the folks roughly south and west of I-680/I-80 interchange in Douglas County, and folks west of 84th street in Sarpy County. The rest of the metro area will find it further away.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:38 pm

Come on, Mike. You should know by now that facts and reason have NO place in this discussion. The only thing we need remember is east = bad and west = good.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:13 pm

Good on ya, DTO. AAA baseball isn't going to make a freaking penny by trying to woo the family crowd, unless it is on Sunday afternoons.

You want to make a splash, try the beer promos, try singles nights, or just take a page from the St. Paul Saints:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/20 ... gives.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Paul_S ... promotions

They've been pulling promo stunts like that for years, and they've been packed for years. It's the same league as the Salt Dogs, competing in a market with the NHL, NBA, NFL, and MLB.

If you build it, they will come. But they'll only come back if your product doesn't suck.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:45 pm

Hmmmm.... mysteriously vanishing posts.

Post by **nebugeater** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:59 pm

DTO

You have never taken kids to a baseball game. What you don't understand it taking kids to a game required out drinking any 20 -30 year old.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:01 pm

Won't somebody think of the children...

...and their perpetually hammered guardians!

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:02 pm

nebugeater wrote:DTO

You have never taken kids to a baseball game. What you don't understand it taking kids to a game required out drinking any 20 -30 year old.

I don't even know anyone under the age of 20.

I'm just saying that people without kids have more disposable income and seem like the better demo to go after.

Post by **nebugeater** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:03 pm

DTO Luv wrote:
nebugeater wrote:DTO

You have never taken kids to a baseball game. What you don't understand it taking kids to a game required out drinking any 20 -30 year old.

I don't even know anyone under the age of 20.

I'm just saying that people without kids have more disposable income and seem like the better demo to go after.

Not always. I had less disposable income at 20 than now and that includes two kids now. I think there are plenty in the same boat.

by the way, were does 20 - 30 turn into not knowing anyone under 20?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:07 pm

If you can't go the bar with me, you're not worth knowing.

Post by **Brad** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:43 pm

Meanwhile back at Rosenblatt...

I think that with the current Royal's management, they will be a success anywhere they land as long as they control the stadium/concessions. Weither it be midtown, west O, Sarpy etc.

Could they make downtown work, may be, but I don't think they are looking of an OK option, as they have some great options on the table, most of which do not include the metro.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:54 pm

Brad wrote: think that with the current Royal's management, they will be a success anywhere they land as long as they control the stadium/concessions.

Therein lies the rub. Where are they going to get that deal AND be able to offer the deals they are offering now? (which I and others claim is driving the attendance)

Post by **Brad** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:00 pm

Big E wrote:
Brad wrote: think that with the current Royal's management, they will be a success anywhere they land as long as they control the stadium/concessions.
Therein lies the rub. Where are they going to get that deal AND be able to offer the deals they are offering now? (which I and others claim is driving the attendance)

Not in north downtown....

If they have a stadium to themselves, I am sure they can manage it like they manage Rosenblatt.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:44 pm

Brad wrote:If they have a stadium to themselves, I am sure they can manage it like they manage Rosenblatt.

So where does this revenue come from that they are suddenly going to have in their own stadium? A new stadium to themselves also comes with a huge new pile of expenses to themselves, as well. Not to mention they don't get their cut of the CWS concessions money any more, either, which is where this whole thing falls apart for me. All these gimmicks they are able to pull off now to drive attendance will not be financially viable when they have to cover their own nut.

I'm not saying that all these problems would be solved in a DTO stadium, either. What I am saying is there is an incredible amount of new expenses this franchise will face that they simply don't have now because of their sweetheart deal with the city and CWS.

Greg S · Post by **Greg S** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:13 pm

The Royals have a good lease at Rosenblatt but it's not as good as it was 5 years ago.

I think Sarpy along with some of the other cities are going to offer them what they need to be successful.

Greg

HskrFanMike · Post by **HskrFanMike** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:57 pm

OK, my remembery fudged the numbers by a couple of minutes, so I'll post the actuals.

168th & Dodge to New Downtown Stadium: 18.7 miles, 23 minutes per Google Maps
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=16801 ... =UTF8&z=12

168th & Dodge to somewhere along 370 by I-80: 15.3 miles, 18 minutes per Google Maps
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=1 ... =UTF8&z=11

The Southport location was about 3 miles and 2 minutes less. I didn't post that since it looks like that location is dead.

I still maintain that when you consider the fact that there are only 2 interstate access points out at I-80/370/Hwy 50, you'll see traffic issues there as well, and the time difference is going to be relatively moot for the northwest side of town. Head much further east of I-680...and downtown will be more convenient.

Post by **nebugeater** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:40 pm

Bottom line

DT location - Fine with Me
Sarpy Location - Fine with Me
Out Of State - Not so Fine with Me

This is still one market, bottom line to me is that the Omaha Royals need to stay in the Omaha market. Any location here will be fine and anything less that that will be a huge disappointment and loss. 5 - 10 minutes of drive time will not make a difference to most people, for those that is does they will look for another excuse to not go if that one does not fit.. For everyone that will not go to a game DT there will be someone that will not go to a game in Sarpy, so that washes in my opinion. Fact of the matter is they will probably not be the ones that carry the load of ticket sales anyway.

..... and DTO if it happens, the first season that the O Royals play in their new Sarpy ballpark I will be among the first to meet you there and buy you a beer or three. If they end up playing in a DT park I expect the same from you since I will have that LONG drive!

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:50 pm

Well since I'd have that long walk out there you better buy me something.

Greg S · Post by **Greg S** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:43 pm

Southport may be out of the running but Southport West is still in play.

I'm OK with DT or Sarpy, like someone else said, just not OK with out of state.

I live north of 156 and Fort and it's pretty much a wash for me on time and distance between DT and Sarpy. That being said the Metro area is more populated South of Dodge than North.

Greg

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:10 pm

What I am getting at is Stein has made it clear that his target demographic is young families. As much as the non-baseball team owners here want to argue that THEY should be catered to as they are the be all end all, I trust the man who has the financial success to actually own his own team. Thus, if you are targeting young families, Sarpy makes much more sense than downtown.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:21 pm

joeglow wrote:What I am getting at is Stein has made it clear that his target demographic is young families. Thus, if you are targeting young families, Sarpy makes much more sense than downtown.

+1

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:27 pm

Douglas County: 485,000 people
Sarpy County: No where near as many

It looks to me like he's excluding all of those families that also live in Omaha. It's not like everyone that lives east of 72nd is a single, homo like me or Big E. There are plenty of families all over the metro that I don't see how moving the stadium to Sarpy County will be a big boon for attendance.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:36 pm

DTO Luv wrote:Douglas County: 485,000 people
Sarpy County: No where near as many

It looks to me like he's excluding all of those families that also live in Omaha. It's not like everyone that lives east of 72nd is a single, homo like me or Big E. There are plenty of families all over the metro that I don't see how moving the stadium to Sarpy County will be a big boon for attendance.

Are you serious? Which area of town is building schools like crazy? Which part of town has massive over-crowding at every existing school? It is not that difficult to figure out where the majority of families live (and, for the record, I am one of those Douglas county families you reference and I support it in Sarpy over downtown).

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:52 pm

I'm totally clueless on your school question.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:07 pm

joeglow wrote:Are you serious? Which area of town is building schools like crazy? Which part of town has massive over-crowding at every existing school? It is not that difficult to figure out where the majority of families live (and, for the record, I am one of those Douglas county families you reference and I support it in Sarpy over downtown).

Umm, yeah, sure joe. Just take a look at where the majority of schools are, there aren't any east of 90th..... :lol:

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:10 pm

Icejammer: who said anything about an absence of schools? I said more. Couple that with the fact that the socio-economic standing of many (if not the majority) in NE and SE Omaha precludes them from going to more than a handful of games, it is REAL easy to see where the majority of kids live, in addition to the majority of families with the disposable income. It is, however, hard to see it if it forces you to acknowledge a severe drawback to the plans you support.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:15 pm

Just because schools out west are overcrowded does NOT equate to more families out west, just a lack of schools and/or classroom space. The fact remains that the majority of the schools in the metro are still to the east.

Of course, it's all about the money with you, isn't it? Nice way to transition your argument mid-stream...

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:21 pm

For the record, I couldn't give a fig if they move to Vancouver. All I'm saying is if they think they're going to be able to make a buck with a new lease agreement in a new stadium while targeting all of these credit strapped families that can't afford $3 parking they are flat |expletive| wack-a-doo |expletive| nuts.

DTO wrote:It's not like everyone that lives east of 72nd is a single, homo like me or Big E.

You're gay?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:27 pm

If the price is right.

I think it's safe to say that the neighborhood probably isn't a much an indicator that people will go to the games. We all saw that with the save rosenblatt wackos not going to Royals games. Overall the team will draw from where ever in the metro but I still the think better draw would be DT if they were willing to make it work.

Post by **nebugeater** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:46 pm

DTO Luv wrote:If the price is right.

I think it's safe to say that the neighborhood probably isn't a much an indicator that people will go to the games. We all saw that with the save rosenblatt wackos not going to Royals games. Overall the team will draw from where ever in the metro but I still the think better draw would be DT if they were willing to make it work.

That is what is great about this country. You have the right to be wrong.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:00 am

icejammer wrote:Just because schools out west are overcrowded does NOT equate to more families out west, just a lack of schools and/or classroom space. The fact remains that the majority of the schools in the metro are still to the east.

Of course, it's all about the money with you, isn't it? Nice way to transition your argument mid-stream...

Percentage of kids in Omaha areas:

http://maps.unomaha.edu/atlas2002/page2.html

Married households with children:

http://maps.unomaha.edu/atlas2002/page2.html

Total population:

http://maps.unomaha.edu/atlas2002/page2.html

I could not find anything about average income and net worth, but I HOPE we are all smart enough to know what that map would look like.

That said, what this shows me is that the population is somewhat consistent around the city proper. However, this does NOT take into account the growing bases in Papillion, Lavista, Gretna, un-annexed suburbs or the now defunct Elkhorn. It also shows me that the percentage of kids as it relates to population is somewhat close to equal. However, the number of kids in intact homes is MUCH MUCH MUCH greater out West (and this is the number one indicator of economic standing). Thus, I would still bet my life savings that there are MANY more financial able families to attend games out West.

However, I guess some people here still think every entertainment venue should cater to them (so much that they are willing to ignore the views of the millionaire who owns the team).

Post by **nebugeater** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:52 am

Interesting fact that means nothing, or maybe it does.

We are in the Gretna district if you hadn't figured it out. I have a daughter that has just entered her Freshman year in High school. Her class size as they enter their freshman year is 170 students. This is from a from the parent meeting earlier this week. As she started school in 1999 in the SAME district her class size was 92 students. You do the math. It equals growth. Another fact from the parents meeting is that there are 26 - 28 students entering one of the classes of high-school this fall that were not in the district when classes got out last spring. That is an avg. 7 per class in about thee months.

There is growth in the DT area but like it or not it is not the only area growing.

And to restate, I do not care if the Royals play DT or in Sarpy Co, they just need to play HERE.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:15 am

It is obvious to most people where the growth is. Elkhorn is building a new high school. Millard recently built a new one and is planning to build a 4th high school. OPS is looking to building a new one out NW. Papillion-Lavista just recent built a new high school. Thus, in a span of about 10 years, we are looking at 4-6 new high schools needing to be built out West. It really is not brain surgery we are talking about here.

thenewguy · Post by **thenewguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:58 am

While i understand what you're all saying about schools and what not and how it relates to population, many of you are forgetting where the majority of tourism and entertainment lies for Omaha...and Nebraska/Western Iowa: along the river front. Think about it: biggest tourist draws in the state of Nebraska are the Old Market and the zoo. Couple that with Midtown and its options, Durham, Joslyn, Holland, Ameristar/Harrah's/Horseshoe, MAC, Qwest, pedestrian bridge, and all the dining options within a few minutes on either side of the Missouri, and it just makes more sense. Sure, there is retail, restaurant, and other development out west, but i feel that you could get the most bang-for-your-buck downtown. If you come to Omaha to see the zoo and bum around downtown, and decide to take in a game, you aren't going to want to go out west. The in-towners may be split 50/50, but anyone from out of town who may just want to take in a game while at a conference, zoo, whatever, you're going downtown. I think that is what shifts the balance. Put the team where the tourism is...and the 50/50 split isn't quite the factor it was. Oh, and i do realize people don't necessarily drive from afar to see the O'Royals play. That's just extra gravy on the potatoes.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:08 am

I think you're underestimating the "go to a baseball game and buy a bass boat" demographic.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:13 pm

It's nice to know we'll have to have a credit score above 790 to go to Sarpy Royals games.

Well if the west is just sooooooooooooooooooooo affluent then the cost of driving DT and possibly paying to park (plenty of free spots too) really shouldn't matter.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:14 pm

thenewguy wrote:Oh, and i do realize people don't necessarily drive from afar to see the O'Royals play. That's just extra gravy on the potatoes.

Actually, there are a fair number that do. Inevitably, every Royals game I've been to, I've run across people on vacation, so I think you make a valid point newguy, keep it close to the main tourist destinations.