Upscale subdivision planned for 234-240th and Q area

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:33 am

Omaha World Herald wrote: Developers propose upscale subdivision

Standing in a golden field overlooking the Elkhorn River, it's easy to see the attraction of the land that developers Tim Young and Mark Boyer have eyed for two years.

To tap into the wooded beauty of western Douglas County, the developers have proposed the Hamptons - a 115-lot subdivision on rolling hills just east of the river.

The homes, built by lot buyers, wouldn't be quite the posh get-away mansions of New York City's elite, but they likely will range from $400,000 to $1 million or more, the developers said.

"We named it the Hamptons for a reason," said Young, noting inspiration came from the famous retreat on Long Island. "This is a unique piece of property, and it will be a unique development that we feel Omaha is ready for."

If approved by the Douglas County Board, the company would sell lots and place wetlands on 189 acres from 234th to 240th Streets north of West Q Road. The lots would vary in size from just over half an acre to 1.4 acres.

Lots closer to the river will be sold for $125,000 to $140,000. Parcels farther away will start around $50,000, the developers said.

Even as condos are set to rise along Omaha's Missouri riverfront, the market for acreage developments is strong, Young and Boyer said, as evidenced by the series of developments planned northwest of Omaha.

The La Vista developers said they already have almost 40 people on a list to view lots on their property. The land sits about 22 miles and at least 35 minutes from downtown Omaha.

They cited the Hamptons' sweeping view and 100-year-old oak trees as features that distinguish their project from others in the Omaha area.

"We look for ground that has some character," Young said.

The project goes before the County Board Tuesday for preliminary approval. A vote was scheduled for earlier this month, but board members delayed a decision to get more information on the plans.

Some area residents and the Papio-Missouri River Natural Resources District have raised questions about increased traffic and plans to discharge treated waste into the Elkhorn River.

Ron Niederhaus, who lives just east of the proposed project, said gravel trucks are a frequent sight on West Q Road.

"It's very heavy in the mornings," he said. "It's just one (truck) right after another."

The developers pledged to place deceleration and turn lanes on West Q Road in front of the two entrance points for the subdivision.

Because there is no sewer service for the area, the developers are proposing to have a small plant to treat sewage before it's put into the river.

Paul Woodward, a water engineer with the NRD, wrote county planners a letter in September asking the county to delay the Hamptons and other future developments in the area until a regional water system can be developed.

In an interview, Woodward said a water study won't be finished until 2006.

"The question that keeps coming up is whether we'll get it done before all this development," Woodward said. "(Developments) keep jumping ahead of where we have the systems available to provide quality services."

Last month, the county's Planning Commission recommended unanimously that the Hamptons go forward, with commission members telling residents that discharge into rivers is highly regulated.

Young said the plant would conform to all standards set by the Nebraska Department of Environmental Quality. He said the project, which also would have water from two community wells, is simply a reaction to market forces.

"They look at it as the cart before the horse," he said of some researchers, "and we look at it as that's where people want to live."

Young and Boyer are waiting for approval from the County Board before closing on the property. This summer they reached an agreement to purchase the land for about $2.5 million from the Francis Hert Trust.

They hope to have final approval from the County Board by January so that grading, street and utility work can begin at the site when the weather warms up.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:10 am

Omaha World Herald wrote: Rural subdivision plan raises growth issues

Should Douglas County place a moratorium on housing developments in rural areas until a plan is formed for orderly growth?

That was the question Tuesday as the County Board debated a proposed subdivision overlooking the Elkhorn River near 240th Street and West Q Road.

The board voted 5-2 to approve the preliminary plans for the 115-lot Hamptons development. But during the hourlong debate, some board members said officials need to focus on the big picture.

"You can bet that when this development goes in, you'll have other ones," said board member Mary Ann Borgeson, who represents western Douglas County.

Borgeson and Chairwoman Carol McBride Pirsch voted against the Hamptons plan. Both said they're concerned about development getting ahead of water resources and street improvements. The plan will come back for final approval early next year.

The area in question sits in the Elkhorn River basin, which isn't served by Omaha sewers. There also is no MUD water service.

The Hamptons would have a small plant to treat waste before it is discharged into the Elkhorn River. The development would use two community wells for water.

Ken and Sandy Kendall, who own a cabin on the other side of the river from the proposed development, asked the board whether the wastewater would be noticeable when the river gets low in the summer.

"Are we going to make our rivers dumping grounds?" Sandy Kendall asked.

Bob Doyle, attorney for Boyer Young Development Co. of La Vista, said the subdivision would meet all wastewater standards of the Nebraska Department of Environmental Quality.

Board member Kyle Hutchings said the plans met county requirements, noting the board approved a subdivision west of Bennington two weeks ago that had wells and a waste lagoon.

"On the surface, it appears we're not dealing equally with developers who come before us," he said.

A water expert for the Papio-Missouri River Natural Resources District sent the county a written request to delay development in the area until a regional water study is completed. That could take several months.

Doyle said Tuesday that any regional water system would use a treatment plant and still discharge into the river.

He also said it makes more sense to develop closer to the Elkhorn River first and work east so that subdivisions don't have to put in extensive sewers leading to a treatment plant.

The board did not reach an agreement about the shape of growth in the county's western reaches.

Planning Commission Chairwoman Barbi Hayes said county planners rewrote several regulations last year, including how to manage subdivisions with larger lots. She said if the county decided to put a hold on development, it should announce it so developers know ahead of time.

redfield · Post by **redfield** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:28 am

This should be a very attractive development.

As I look at where this and a few other proposed projects will be, and consider what will happen to the West Dodge cooridor in the wake of Dodge street improvements and a major shopping center like Village Pointe, I'm really beginning to doubt that Omaha has 30 years of land left to develop.

I grew up around 96th and Qst. I remember what it was like when Oakview was built. Before Oakview we called ourselves "Southwest Omaha". The Southwest Omaha we know today exploded when Oakview was built, and it hasn't really slowed down.

30 years from now there may be some undeveloped land left around the edges of Omaha, but we're going to start feeling the sqeeze long before then as the supply of desirable land continues to dwindle.

I hope everybody plans on showing up tomorrow to show support for the Omaha by Design proposals. We've talked about wishing we could go back and undo some of the past around Omaha, well lets not continue those mistakes with the good land we have left. I'd really hate to see half of the land left in West Omaha end up looking like the street brimming with character that Jeff posted on another thread recently.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:23 pm

Wow, talk about a "Leapfrong Development"!

redfield · Post by **redfield** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:59 pm

I hope everybody plans on showing up tomorrow to show support for the Omaha by Design proposals.

That shoulda been next week, not tomorrow....oops

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:43 pm

I know everyone likes their space but these acreage type developments will eat up valuable land and prevent Omaha from growing too much further. It's not a prudent use of land for Douglas County as the most urbanized county in the state. If people want to move to the sticks and have lots of elbow room they should move out to the exurbs...Wahoo, Fremont, Ashland, Plattsmouth, Blair, Glenwood. In 30 years as the county is completely urbanized, all 331 square miles, Omaha's growth will be choked off. Just another St Louis, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinati, Pittsburgh, Buffalo and on and on and on.

City and county planners better get together with the developers and get that master plan figured out because it is going to bite us in 20 years.

UNOstudent · Post by **UNOstudent** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:16 pm

isnt there a law preventing cities from going into other counties? if so, whats omaha to do when douglas county is out of space?

also, some on here have mentioned that an ideal location for beltway would be to continue the freeway south from hwy 275/center. this housing development is right in line of that freeway, thus preventing it possibly.

also speaking of western douglas county, from what i know, it looks like the west dodge freeway will just curve north towards fremont and dodge street west of the hwy 275 interchange will be an ordinary street. i would have thought that they would just continue the freeway as further west as the city grows.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:32 pm

I don't think that they can continue West Dodge any further west because of some subdivision located out there. So Basically, we're screwed!

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:14 pm

280th?! How far out do the numbered streets go before you hit the Platte River?

OhioStreetKid · Post by **OhioStreetKid** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:38 am

280th is a typo (this would make the subdivision stretch for almost 4 miles on West Q Road!

). It actually goes to 240th. To answer your question though, in the southwest part of Douglas County the last major street before the Platte is 252nd. In the northwest part of the county which stretches farther west the streets probably go up to the 300 neighborhood.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:17 pm

[quote="UNOstudent"]isnt there a law preventing cities from going into other counties? if so, whats omaha to do when douglas county is out of space?

quote]

Their is a law like that in place in Nebraska saying that cities can't annex outside of their county. However their was a study done this summer by a group that said Omaha should be allowed to annex into Sarpy county and eventually the other counties. The reason behind this was to keep Omaha from being "in-elastic" like St. Louis or Minneapolis. The study said that since the other places outside of Omaha use Omaha frequently that they should share in the make up of the tax base like us who live in Omaha.

Don, I agree with you about wasting land in Douglas county on big acrages. Any one who wants to have a big piece of land should stay well away from Omaha. It will only make traffic problems worse in the future if everryone has to drive further because they wasted land on big acrages instead of more closer urban (if thats possible now) layout.

POTUS · Post by **POTUS** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:46 pm

Rich people drive the farthest. This is true of every major city. New York's rich drive Upstate, to the Hamptons, and Connecticut. Washington DC'ers drive 1.5-2 hours west to their suburbs. Chicago, Atlanta, San Diego. It's all the same, rich people drive. Poor people huddle (and take the bus.)

What I am getting at is this: look at our richest subdivisions- the proposed Hamptons, the proposed 204th and Fort, 228th and Dodge, and increasingly way east Council Bluffs. These are all rich subdivisions. I think the rich in Omaha are unknowingly marking the final lines of expansion. From here, it's all density in our urban areas- South O, North O, DTO(!), Midtown, Saddle Creek, and the like.

Considering the size of our downtown, there's only so far people are willing to drive.

And, the numbered streets thing... I think the numbers will continue from Omaha's street grid into Saunders County regardless of whether or not Omaha annexes anything over that line.

(Hello, Yutan? It's me, Omaha.)

POTUS · Post by **POTUS** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:04 am

How far can Dodge go?

Consider these things: Dodge Expressway is already turned north. The overpasses are being built heading towards Fremont. That's not news.

Dodge will continue straight west, but as a quieter street, much like Pacific or Blondo.

But as for expanding the traffic lanes for west Douglas County, 92 towards Wahoo is your answer. Where 275 and Dodge meet, Dodge goes north. But that overpass allows for commuters coming in from Yutan, Wahoo, and way SouthWest Douglas County to join the traffic going east and west on Dodge Expressway. Fremont and Wahoo are the next big directions to head. I really wouldn't be surprised to see an expansion of 92 towards Wahoo to four lanes in the next five years.

What I think should be done with it all instead is to create an outer-outer loop. The 480 through Downtown, 80 on the south of it, and 29 on the east is our Inner Loop. 680 around North, and splitting West Omaha, Hwy 370 all the way to Iowa, then 29 to the new CB East Beltway, with a yet to be built north CB beltway would be the Outer Loop.

POTUS · Post by **POTUS** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:27 am

Consider the following:

Crazy: yes. Perfect: no.
But hey, I threw the idea out there.

UNOstudent · Post by **UNOstudent** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:38 am

loops are nice to dream about but who knows if we will ever even get another one. regardless if we get one or not, there needs to be different alternatives for people to get from the burbs (from all directions) to the central part of the city. expressways seem like a good idea when they are in the outer fringes of the county, but when they get developed (ie maple) they get tons of stoplights and totally suck!

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:49 am

No downtown loops please. I don't think they justify what they destroy.

redfield · Post by **redfield** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:26 am

The Washington DC area has all sorts of loops.

Loops are not an effective way of moving lots of traffic in and out of the city. They actually hinder it I think by blocking access for more roads running the the actual direction people are trying to travel. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

I am all for a loop that directs interstate traffic around the city instead of through it, but that's the only loop that would do us much good.

More roads like Dodge, running east-west without stoplights would be far more effective for Omaha in my opinion. Especially since Omaha appears to be spreading west the fastest. Make Maple wider, make Harrison 3 lanes each way and prohibit anymore direct access thus preventing more lights. Protect 370 from the same.

Meanwhile we need to work on increasing the density and slowing the sprawl so more people have shorter drives in the first place.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:02 am

It would be nice to have Center Street/West Center Road 6 lanes from 680 westward. Also to revamp the W. Center Rd/Industrial merger.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:54 am

Funny you should mention the West Center/Industrial split... there was a traffic study dude sitting there all day yesterday. No question, it is WAY overdue for improvement. Of course that railroad bridge will be the biggest piece of the puzzle (sort of a mini 84th Street and I-80 tunnel project... for those old enough to remember that).

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:48 am

Anyway you look at it, traffic in WestO will always be a pain. If you live to far west of 680 than you have no direct access to an interstate. What we really need is to turn Sorenson Pkwy. or something close to that area, into a northern version of I-80. The other thing we need to do is put the North Freeway all the way through to Blair. It should have 3 lanes at least. That way we could start to see the northern part of the city grow and we will have quicker access for outer areas into the inner city areas.

If anyone has seen a map of St. Louis' interstate system you would see that it would fit Omaha perfectly.

Ingersoll1978 · Post by **Ingersoll1978** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:53 pm

The section from I-80 (near Gretna) to I-680 (near Missouri Valley) should be the first portion. I hope Douglas County, Sarpy County, and the Department of Roads are already thinking about this before the area is built upon with homes and businesses.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:09 pm

I don't know where the bypass to Gretna will occur... but Highway 6 pretty much already travels like interstate from Elkhorn to Gretna, with more overpasses being added all the time. I live at 168th and frequently run out to 204th (Highway 6) and then head south to I-80. They will either run all the way to I-80... or turn south and use 370 as the connector. I'm sure someone has their eye on this.

Regardless... it is silly to use 'pain' and 'Omaha traffic' in the same sentence. Omahans don't know how good they have it.

Bomaha · Post by **Bomaha** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:45 pm

I agree with all of you that we need new highways and expressways in omaha. On a different subject I always thought Bennington would become a rea piece of the Beverly Hills and Hamptons projects up there. It is far north but I don't know if its that far north. That town could become the next most exclusive area in the city behind regency and the Hamptons.

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:37 pm

22 miles?? Maybe geographically if you were to fit a straight line. No one's going to shoot right down Dodge from out there. This is more like 30 miles as any smart person would take 31 to I-80. I'm on the fence over this one.. it would be a nice lookout for those people. Not sure if it would compare to the lookout from some of those houses in Skyline Ranches.. those views are amazing, but I don't think I'd be too upset about the amount of land they'd be using up. I always wanted to park station over there where Maple crosses the Elkhorn... get a canoe and just take in the scenery.. those cliffs are massive.

Bomaha · Post by **Bomaha** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:41 pm

I don't know if this has anything to do with it but to improve some view. I think they should create a state park in the area bordered by the Platte and the Elkhorn river and the Douglas/Sarpy County line. It could be pretty cool. But I don't know if its farmland or trees or whatever. I don't just a thought.

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:06 pm

that would be two rivers state park.

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Tue May 10, 2005 12:57 pm

Well... this must've been approved. I checked it out last weekend, and all the grading has been done. Seems like they're getting ready to pave the streets now. They even have some man-made lakes, similar to the one's out in Waterloo. Man, can you imagine looking west of Highway 31 and seeing nothing but houses?

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue May 10, 2005 5:17 pm

The hub and spoke approach is the best way to move traffic. Just look at Houston it’s a masterpiece with its hub/spoke, collector/distributor and stacked freeways. And as of right now we seam to be getting the spoke thing down. For example W. Dodge and some time next decade the JFK will get worked on (if you ask me the JFK is a decade over due). Now they just need to start provisioning for another partial beltway. I don’t mean grading I simply mean ROW and zonings. The beltway we unarguably need now is Elkhorn to Gretna ish and then Gretna to Glenwood. But that pry won’t even be thought of until there is thousands of houses and businesses in the way. And o yes the N. Freeway needs to be completed. I looked at that area on google’s satellite and it can be done. Just turn part of Storz into freeway then cut north into Iowa…
Does anyone know if that new expressway in E. C.B. will have stop lights or diamond interchanges?

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:31 pm

The Houston transportation system is a masterpiece? Maybe for gridlock and out of control sprawl. I'll give Houston credit for a good mass transit (bus) system and a well-built network of HOV lanes, but outside of that, the freeways are pretty choked unless you're on a toll road.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:40 pm

Can you engineer a better freeway system? Do you know how many metros would kill to have the type of network Houston has? From an engineers stand point it has it all…

WT · Post by WT » Wed May 11, 2005 8:09 pm

pkiphd wrote:Can you engineer a better freeway system? Do you know how many metros would kill to have the type of network Houston has? From an engineers stand point it has it all…

That's saying a lot? If it were up to the engineers in this country, every road would look like an interstate and every interstate would be 40 lanes wide. Can you imagine what the US would look like? Bicycles and pedestrian traffic would be obsolete and everyone would have a fat |expletive| to match their SUV. The US would have the highest obesity problem in the world, and the highest gasoline consumption. Wait.....
There would be no consideration to the environment because everything would be paved. We would have to go to war with every Middle East country and tap into Canada so that we could have enough gasoline to cross the 40 lanes of traffic to get to the other side of the interstate. Wait...
If every American city was like Houston, I doubt there would be too many enthusiastic people on this forum. We would all be so brain dead from all of the pollution that a city like Houston causes, or would have moved to Europe for a better way of life.
Basically what I am saying is, you are either retarded or you have a great sense of humor. (You can qoute that if you want).

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed May 11, 2005 8:50 pm

Yes, from a planner's standpoint, a freeway network like Houston's poses some problems on a scale beyond traffic congestion. Houston's highway system looks pretty on a map, but there are still problem areas and choke points all along I-10 and Loop 610.

I'm sure most have heard about the 18-20 lane Katy Freeway currently under construction in west Houston. And anyone who drives a Texas freeway knows that it isn't just the freeway that takes up a lot of space, but it's the 3 lane "feeder roads" on either side of the freeway too. Combine this with Houston's lack of zoning and you end up with what is one of the ugliest big cities around with a freeway view chock full of nasty businesses and tacky signs.

skybird · Post by **skybird** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:16 pm

I agree that we do need more of an outer loop in Western Douglas County. Highway 31 in my opinion should have been made into a freeway rather then four lanes undivided. And upgrading HWY 31 to a freeway within the next 10-20 years when traffic is much higher would be a complete waste of money since the both the 275 and HWY 6 interchanges were just completed recently and were only made into diamond interchanges. I have a feeling that the only answer would be a western loop that connects to the Omaha-Fremont Freeway and then connects to I-80 near Gretna and possibly leads to a south loop that connects to I-29. Back to the whole West Center issue, this stretch of road is very bad especially from the Industrial split to 180th. I often seen it backed up west to 168th at peak times of the day and on Saturday afternoons. Hopefully once Pacific St, and 168th are widened within the next year that will help. But more residential development west is only going to make West Center more congested in this area.

omahastylee459 · Post by **omahastylee459** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:52 pm

If it were up to the engineers in this country, every road would look like an interstate and every interstate would be 40 lanes wide. Can you imagine what the US would look like? Bicycles and pedestrian traffic would be obsolete and everyone would have a fat |expletive| to match their SUV. The US would have the highest obesity problem in the world, and the highest gasoline consumption. Wait.....
There would be no consideration to the environment because everything would be paved

Thats really an uneducated thing to say. Engineers are the one who are working to create a better environment, create cars that are cleaner, and highways/transport systems that are more efficient. I dont think you are talking about engineers that would create those things, its the politicians in power that do, especially those who dont fund enough research for the engineers to invent these new technologies.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Sun May 15, 2005 4:50 pm

Who could we email that would have some power to get them to try to start working on planning another outer loop? I mean we have been discussing ideas forever and it seems its not on anyone's agenda. Maybe the forum could team up and get something started. Because if this isn't looked into now, 10 years from now we'll have a real problem on our hands.

jjjjhskr · Post by **jjjjhskr** » Sun May 15, 2005 5:24 pm

DMRyan wrote:The Houston transportation system is a masterpiece? Maybe for gridlock and out of control sprawl. I'll give Houston credit for a good mass transit (bus) system and a well-built network of HOV lanes, but outside of that, the freeways are pretty choked unless you're on a toll road.

Amen to that. An hour in traffic is considered a short commute for Houstonians. Maybe the design is good but something else is causing it to be one of the most congested cities in the country. There is 0 planning and control of growth in Houston which makes it one of the worst for transportation.

skybird · Post by **skybird** » Sun May 15, 2005 8:51 pm

OmahaDevelopmentMan wrote:Who could we email that would have some power to get them to try to start working on planning another outer loop? I mean we have been discussing ideas forever and it seems its not on anyone's agenda. Maybe the forum could team up and get something started. Because if this isn't looked into now, 10 years from now we'll have a real problem on our hands.

You said it. No plans that we can find as of yet. Lincoln seems to be a focus right now by the NDOR which has a very nice southern & eastern freeway loop planed for them. I know others on here have made their drawings, this is mine based on some others.

north50 · Post by **north50** » Sun May 15, 2005 11:12 pm

pkiphd is right. We need a lot of what he said. Fist, we need to get the traffic off of north 30th street by building a bridge off of 16th street from the north fwy and connect thru to 680 on the IA side. That would be a huge help and put the trucks on the proper type of road.

The problem with moving a HWY designation is that you'd lose state funds. I don't know the formula, but I don't think it would be tons of money.

Also, the JKF was at capacity the day it opened. I don't have a clue why thats such a mess.

Well, there's just lots of work to do.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:26 am

pkiphd wrote:Does anyone know if that new expressway in E. C.B. will have stop lights or diamond interchanges?

No diamond interchanges, other than (more than likely anyway) at the point it will intersect I-29.

Here's a pic of the proposed alignment. Some of the C1 and C2 part of the alignment is done, going through the new subdivision out here.

It would be great, if at some point in time, this were extended north and then west to interect with the road leading from I-680 into Crescent.