What if?

[Doctor Fate]

I know we all like speculation so I thought I'd ask something I was thinking about this week:

How do you think economic development, downtown, population, growth, etc. in Omaha would be different if it was 1) the state capital and/or 2) had UNL instead of UNO?

[Louie]

With the current infill boom that Lincoln has seen over the past 5-10 years I think we can all agree that Omaha would be rockin. Looking at Des Moines, a smaller city that is a state capitol seeing good growth and population like us that has perhaps a few more possible 'landmark' downtown development proposals, I could see Omaha being a real horse nationally if it were benefitted by being the state capitol as well as home to the anchor public university. College cities have been attractive to invest in recently in the form of residential. Lincoln would suffer vastly.

[Garrett]

Omaha would be largely but perhaps not drastically so, and the village of Lancaster would just be a blip on the radar. The core would probably be stronger overall. Basically, Omaha would just be a primate city like Minneapolis-St. Paul.

[Busguy2010]

I've wondered about this too. I think:

-Downtown would cover more area with more, bigger, taller buildings.
-The area surrounding Downtown would be larger, with more apartments, duplexes, and rowhouses.
-The area surrounding all that would have many more single family homes built before 1940.
-I think the urban area would encompass the entire area within I-680, at least.
-I think our suburban area would be filled out to the Platte river.
-I think we'd have a real amusement park.
-I think we'd have a rail system.
-I think the Huskers would be an Omaha team and not so beloved by all of Nebraska.

Would it be fair to assume we could just add Lincoln's population to ours for a slight idea of population?

What I don't think:

-I don't think we'd have an NFL team

[Omaha Cowboy]

I've wondered about this too. I think:

-Downtown would cover more area with more, bigger, taller buildings.
-The area surrounding Downtown would be larger, with more apartments, duplexes, and rowhouses.
-The area surrounding all that would have many more single family homes built before 1940.
-I think the urban area would encompass the entire area within I-680, at least.
-I think our suburban area would be filled out to the Platte river.
-I think we'd have a real amusement park.
-I think we'd have a rail system.
-I think the Huskers would be an Omaha team and not so beloved by all of Nebraska.

Would it be fair to assume we could just add Lincoln's population to ours for a slight idea of population?

What I don't think:

-I don't think we'd have an NFL team

You know, if today, Omaha had all of these things you mentioned.. Especially a real amusement park, a larger/taller Downtown, an urban area encompassing everything within I-680, a suburban area filled all the way to the Platte river AND a rail system.. I’m sensing you’d be describing a metropolitan area of at least 3 million..

Regardless of the “Big Red effect”, that’s more than enough of a sustainable population for an NFL team too. Just sayin’ ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[Doctor Fate]

I think Omaha would have at least 1.2 million people. I could see a Nebraska flagship university in Omaha being much larger than UNL is in Lincoln, meaning more young professionals who would stay in Omaha and I could see ConAgra and First Data HQ's still in Omaha.

I could see buildings like the capital, US Bank building, Wells Fargo Center, and Graduate Hotel and I wonder where they would be? Eppley would have more international flights and be bigger.

Also, I envision the Univeristy and Memorial Stadium on the Riverfront where the CLink and TD stadium are, with those two moving west and being between Creighton and Nebraska. And an intense in-state basketball rivalry between Nebraska and Creighton, which would make Nebraska more competitive.

[Bob from Omaha]

I hate to throw water on the Capitol/etc. discussion but I have another what if...

What if FDR, Sitel, ConAgra, Level(3), and lots of other Omaha companies didn't leave or in the case of Level(3) weren't started outside of Omaha?
How about this? What if Berkshire figured out that they were seriously missing out on synergy and moved GEICO to Nebraska? How about some of their other subsidiaries? What if they merged certain departments of common subsidiaries and located them in Omaha? Berkshire owns a few furniture retailers. There have to be redundant functions between NFM, Star, Jordan, etc. that could be more efficiently run by combining. Same with their jewelry retailers.
There are other examples of Omaha companies that for ridiculous reasons moved. Others sold out. It happens. Does FDR really have to be located in Atlanta? Is Atlanta the center of the financial universe? Yes, it's a large metro. Other than that....

My main point is that for some reason there is a line beyond which it becomes advantageous to sell or move out of Omaha. Of course, in the case of ConAgra the punk who runs it has a hard on for Chicago.

[Busguy2010]

You know, if today, Omaha had all of these things you mentioned.. Especially a real amusement park, a larger/taller Downtown, an urban area encompassing everything within I-680, a suburban area filled all the way to the Platte river AND a rail system.. I’m sensing you’d be describing a metropolitan area of at least 3 million..

Regardless of the “Big Red effect”, that’s more than enough of a sustainable population for an NFL team too. Just sayin’ ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I don't think we'd have that many people. I look at aerials of Omaha and the urban area is only 2-3 miles short of the loop, and is practically filled out to I-80 on the south. And the suburbs aren't too far off from the river in some spots. And I'm assuming our suburbs would be pretty sparse like KC, but not quite as bad.

So we'll, maybe you're right. Maybe we would have beat out KC for the chiefs, but 3 million sounds very high for what I was envisioning. I was thinking more around 1.5 million for Douglas-Sarpy county. Im no numbers guy so I dont know what effect adding that many houses would have.

I think I would have put the Capitol around 40th and Farnam. It would be nice and high up on that plateau for everyone to see.

[Busguy2010]

I think the perfect location for memorial stadium would be 20th and lake, and I think the campus would have worked great in that area, given that's practically the only flat enough area in the city.

[Garrett]

Southern Nebraska as a whole would be much less developed. I-80 would probably follow the route of the Transcontinental Railroad/Platte River, going by Fremont and Columbus to Grand Island rather than swinging down to hit Lincoln. Consequently, I feel like the southern side of the metro would be less developed, with a greater push into northern and western areas, towards Fremont.

[Busguy2010]

Southern Nebraska as a whole would be much less developed. I-80 would probably follow the route of the Transcontinental Railroad/Platte River, going by Fremont and Columbus to Grand Island rather than swinging down to hit Lincoln. Consequently, I feel like the southern side of the metro would be less developed, with a greater push into northern and western areas, towards Fremont.

Ahh, I really like it. That's probably exactly what would have happened!

Columbus, Fremont, and the cities in between would probably be larger as well. Kind of growing generally between the Platte River and the hills on our side of the Missouri River.

[mrsticka]

Omaha would probably have more freeways. I also think NE 370 should've been a freeway between I-80 and US 75.. I wish I-29 had been built through Nebraska instead of Iowa. If it did, it would follow the path of the Kennedy Freeway, I-480 and the North Freeway and then veer northwestward toward I-680 at exit 12.

They'd probably even have a bigger airport where the concourses feel like they just go on forever and ever.

[Candleshoe]

I hate to throw water on the Capitol/etc. discussion but I have another what if...

What if FDR, Sitel, ConAgra, Level(3), and lots of other Omaha companies didn't leave or in the case of Level(3) weren't started outside of Omaha?


My main point is that for some reason there is a line beyond which it becomes advantageous to sell or move out of Omaha. Of course, in the case of ConAgra the punk who runs it has a hard on for Chicago.

Technically, Conagra started in Grand Island. But that's a whole 'nuther discussion...

[Bob from Omaha]

I hate to throw water on the Capitol/etc. discussion but I have another what if...

What if FDR, Sitel, ConAgra, Level(3), and lots of other Omaha companies didn't leave or in the case of Level(3) weren't started outside of Omaha?


My main point is that for some reason there is a line beyond which it becomes advantageous to sell or move out of Omaha. Of course, in the case of ConAgra the punk who runs it has a hard on for Chicago.

Technically, Conagra started in Grand Island. But that's a whole 'nuther discussion...

You're absolutely right. Conagra could have moved from Grand Island to Chicago because the punk liked Grand Island about as much as Omaha.

[GetUrban]

I hate to throw water on the Capitol/etc. discussion but I have another what if...

What if FDR, Sitel, ConAgra, Level(3), and lots of other Omaha companies didn't leave or in the case of Level(3) weren't started outside of Omaha?


My main point is that for some reason there is a line beyond which it becomes advantageous to sell or move out of Omaha. Of course, in the case of ConAgra the punk who runs it has a hard on for Chicago.

Technically, Conagra started in Grand Island. But that's a whole 'nuther discussion...

You're absolutely right. Conagra could have moved from Grand Island to Chicago because the punk liked Grand Island about as much as Omaha.

But Omaha would be way ahead now, since the previous punk Harper would have left left Jobber's Canyon alone. Grand Island might be worse for the wear though.

[Bob from Omaha]

I hate to throw water on the Capitol/etc. discussion but I have another what if...

What if FDR, Sitel, ConAgra, Level(3), and lots of other Omaha companies didn't leave or in the case of Level(3) weren't started outside of Omaha?


My main point is that for some reason there is a line beyond which it becomes advantageous to sell or move out of Omaha. Of course, in the case of ConAgra the punk who runs it has a hard on for Chicago.

Technically, Conagra started in Grand Island. But that's a whole 'nuther discussion...

You're absolutely right. Conagra could have moved from Grand Island to Chicago because the punk liked Grand Island about as much as Omaha.

But Omaha would be way ahead now, since the previous punk Harper would have left left Jobber's Canyon alone. Grand Island might be worse for the wear though.

And forgive me for saying but the truth is that while MAYBE a few of the buildings in Jobbers Canyon MAY have been saved most would probably have been torn down. AND in the interim either they would have been abandoned, torn down or condemned. There were a lot of buildings and no one was stepping up to rehab them. I hate to sound so negative but I was around then and it would have taken many millions, tens of millions, the will and most importantly the desire to make something of that area. There was no one with the cash to do it and the voices talking about saving that area were relatively few and didn't have the money. The east end of HOA Park was an abandoned battery plant. I was all for Marina City but that didn't happen either and let's remember, Marina City would not have had the feel of redevelopment and would be over 45 years old by now.

[GetUrban]

I hate to throw water on the Capitol/etc. discussion but I have another what if...

What if FDR, Sitel, ConAgra, Level(3), and lots of other Omaha companies didn't leave or in the case of Level(3) weren't started outside of Omaha?


My main point is that for some reason there is a line beyond which it becomes advantageous to sell or move out of Omaha. Of course, in the case of ConAgra the punk who runs it has a hard on for Chicago.

Technically, Conagra started in Grand Island. But that's a whole 'nuther discussion...

You're absolutely right. Conagra could have moved from Grand Island to Chicago because the punk liked Grand Island about as much as Omaha.

But Omaha would be way ahead now, since the previous punk Harper would have left left Jobber's Canyon alone. Grand Island might be worse for the wear though.

And forgive me for saying but the truth is that while MAYBE a few of the buildings in Jobbers Canyon MAY have been saved most would probably have been torn down. AND in the interim either they would have been abandoned, torn down or condemned. There were a lot of buildings and no one was stepping up to rehab them. I hate to sound so negative but I was around then and it would have taken many millions, tens of millions, the will and most importantly the desire to make something of that area. There was no one with the cash to do it and the voices talking about saving that area were relatively few and didn't have the money. The east end of HOA Park was an abandoned battery plant. I was all for Marina City but that didn't happen either and let's remember, Marina City would not have had the feel of redevelopment and would be over 45 years old by now.

Well the truth is we never got a chance to find out, thanks to one man. I was around too, although away in architecture school at the time. In the early 1980’s the 6-1/2 block area had just been designated as a National Register of Historic Places District. Under normal circumstances that would greatly increase the chances of survival for most of the buildings. But as we know, the circumstances weren’t normal at that time in Omaha’s history. I’ll spare you and the others from my usual unabridged JC scolding. It’s still called “the largest historic district ever torn down in US history.”

[Stargazer]

The real 'What If', is what if there were no recession in the 1890's. Omaha was hit harder than any other midwestern city, losing nearly 1/3rd of it's population (which at the start of the decade was slightly larger even than Kansas City and growing every bit as fast (140,000 vs 132,000... by 1900 it was 102,000 vs 163,000). Consider KC has no major university or capital either. If we hadn't taken that hit, we may well have been in lock step with KC in growth in the 20th century.

That said... I'm personally happy with where we're at today.

[RockHarbor]

I havent thought a lot about this in depth before. Great question. Omaha would probably feel more like an "Indianapolis" or "Columbus" or "Oklahoma City" I bet. I never really thought about why Omaha was one step down from those type cities. I just always thought it was simply less population, and being further north & west out on the Plains (which are factors). But, yes...lacking the main university in the state, the major sports team, and the capitol, all play some sort of role -- for sure.

[mrsticka]

What if Omaha was more grown and developed towards the north and at 72nd and NE 36 (where Bennington Road becomes McKinley Street), there was a Northroads Mall?

[Omababe]

What if Omaha was more grown and developed towards the north and at 72nd and NE 36 (where Bennington Road becomes McKinley Street), there was a Northroads Mall?

There actually used to be a Northampton Mall.

[mrsticka]

Where was it?

[bigredmed1]

Where was it?

Wasn't it what they rebuilt when the movie theater went in up north?

[Silverspoon]

I know we all like speculation so I thought I'd ask something I was thinking about this week:

2) had UNL instead of UNO?

It would be the 3rd biggest city in Nebraska inside of the biggest city in Nebraska.

[mrsticka]

Here's a what-if scenario I've had in mind for a while: What if Omaha had been sprawled all the way out west to 204th Street by the mid-to-late 70's? Let's say that back then, Elkhorn and Gretna knew that sooner or later, they would get annexed by Omaha eventually so they decided to grow eastward towards the big city? And most of those 2-lane streets were widened to 4 at the time?

If Omaha had been grown out all the way to 204th Street by 1979, they probably would've already annexed Bennington by now. How about that?