Omaha Streetcar Discussion

POTUS · Post by **POTUS** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:21 pm

The route from the airport, throught downtown, to the Blatt and Zoo is a relatively flat one. There would be no call for a subway. Any route going west from downtown might be a different situation.

Regarding the different grade for these LRTs, an 8 inch curb would qualify without adding too much to the budget. But a good idea would be to keep them at the same grade, so as to allow drivers both lanes since the trains do not always occupy the lanes. If drivers and trains keep crashing, I feel safer in a train. 99% of these accidents are the car driver's fault. So we need to educate the drivers, not use it as another excuse not to carry forward with the plan.

Viva La Mass Transit!

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:49 pm

nebport5 wrote: Jeff or Cowboy, maybe you could just delete my other locked post. I'm not sure why I created a new topic(being very tired probably a factor). Sorry.

Done..Thanks

..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:45 am

Harpoon wrote:A few questions:

1. What is a plenary session anyway?

That just means a general meeting open to all members.

Harpoon wrote:2. Who would be conducting this $200,000-$400,000 study, Zephyr and the company he works for?

That's one possibility, there are a few consulting firms nationwide with streetcar experience.

Harpoon wrote:3. Is the current City Administration on board, or just the one that was voted out of office and really has no say at the current time?

You got me.

Asten · Post by **Asten** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:33 pm

POTUS wrote:The route from the airport, throught downtown, to the Blatt and Zoo is a relatively flat one. There would be no call for a subway. Any route going west from downtown might be a different situation.

Regarding the different grade for these LRTs, an 8 inch curb would qualify without adding too much to the budget. But a good idea would be to keep them at the same grade, so as to allow drivers both lanes since the trains do not always occupy the lanes. If drivers and trains keep crashing, I feel safer in a train. 99% of these accidents are the car driver's fault. So we need to educate the drivers, not use it as another excuse not to carry forward with the plan.

Viva La Mass Transit!

I've been to a few towns in europe where they have same-grade rail and auto traffic - in many cases, sharing the same lanes. They seem to be happy with the arrangement. Then again, they're not as obnoxiously greedy as most of our contrymen have become.

omahapropertymanager · Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:25 am

For any of you who are interested, Hal Daub is going to be on the KFAB Good Morning show today at 8:20 am. He is supposedly going to talk about the proposed street car project.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:30 am

Jeff B this past Friday emailed me his latest column for the Omaha City-Weekly..

The column addresses the prospect of light rail in Omaha and makes the great point that parts of Omaha are certainly dense enough for rail..Quoting that Omaha, while being the 58th largest metropolitan area in the US, is the 30th most dense..Excellent read, enjoy

:

'The Right Track 2005-10-29 01:39:12
Popularity in rail transit spurs Omaha to revisit idea

In a bustling, mixed-use development somewhere out in suburban west Omaha, a businessman kisses his wife goodbye as he steps out of their third-floor condo. After walking downstairs, he stops by the coffee shop located on the first floor of their building. With coffee in one hand and a brief case in the other, the man walks three blocks to the light-rail station. Four minutes later, one of the regularly scheduled trains picks him up for the 15-mile ride to his office in downtown Omaha.

Does this sound ridiculous and far-fetched? It’s not. Omaha is indeed a candidate for a rail-based transportation system. Rail transit is becoming more and more popular across the nation. Large and medium-sized metro areas from coast-to-coast are building rail-transit systems or at least studying the possibility. Omaha needs to keep up in the rail-transit race, because the economic and cultural benefits are enormous.

Back in the 1970s and ’80s, only the mega-cities, like New York, Chicago and Washington, could justify rail-based mass transit systems. Other U.S. cities were too “suburban,” spread-out and in-love with freeways and automobiles. But as populations continued to soar, and new housing development occurred further away from the city center, many Americans started looking back into the city and seeing possibilities.

Now smaller metropolitan areas, with populations not much bigger than Omaha’s, are getting into the rail-transit game. Charlotte, N.C. (2.07 million in population); Portland, Ore. (2.06 million); Salt Lake City, Utah (1.56 million); Memphis, Tenn. (1.25 million); and Little Rock, Ark. (813,000) all have rail-transit systems. With a metro population of 840,000 and a 50-mile-radius population of almost 1.2 million, Omaha compares favorably to these communities. Omaha can justify a rail-transit system.

Before we go much further, some definitions are in order. According to Omaha Streetcar, an organization advocating rail transit in the Omaha area, streetcars, light rail and commuter rail would be appropriate options for Omaha’s rail-transit future.

“Streetcars” are steel-wheeled vehicles powered by overhead wires that usually operate in mixed-street traffic and operate in single-units only. Streetcars can use modern equipment, similar to operations in Europe, or use vintage or heritage equipment.

“Light rail” is an electric railway system characterized by its ability to operate single or multiple-car systems along exclusive rights-of-way at ground level, on aerial structures, in subways or in streets, able to board and discharge passengers at station platforms or at street, track, or car-floor level. It is normally powered by overhead electrical wires.

“Commuter rail” is an electric or diesel propelled railway for urban passenger train service consisting of local short distance travel operating between a central city and adjacent suburbs. Such rail service, using either locomotive hauled or self propelled railroad passenger cars, is generally characterized by multi-trip tickets, specific station-to-station fares, railroad employment practices, and usually only one or two stations in the central business district.

Rail transit makes sense for Omaha. We would probably start out small, with streetcar lines in the downtown/riverfront area. Then, we could extend the streetcars to Dundee, North Omaha and South Omaha. Eventually, we could explore the possibility of a light rail line that would connect downtown with suburban areas. Eppley Airfield could be connected to downtown via streetcar or light rail, whichever made more financial sense.

A number of factors rationalize rail-transit in our community. Omaha is a growing city, aggressively recruiting new businesses and people. We are a business town, with lots of commuters on the go. Omaha is investing in its urban core as evidenced by $2 billion worth of downtown construction. More than 1,000 new condo units are under construction in or planned for downtown, which means there will be a growing pedestrian urban population eager to use streetcars. Urban neighborhoods outside downtown Omaha are getting attention too. The Destination Midtown effort is actively improving a 3.5 square mile area just west of downtown. “Urban villages,” like Dundee, Benson and South Omaha, are becoming more popular. Such places make great sites for rail-transit stations.

Omaha is becoming a regional tourist destination. Every year we add more retail, restaurant and entertainment attractions. The Qwest Center is bringing in thousands of visitors each year, and a streetcar system would be very useful in shuttling convention-goers between the airport, hotels and the convention center. The unusually close proximity of the Omaha airport and the central business district, would make a light-rail connection less expensive to build than it would be in other cities, where airports are located out in the suburbs.

Though Omaha is not a huge metropolitan area, it does have traffic congestion. A recent study identified Omaha as one of the nation’s most congested mid-sized metro areas. Furthermore, because a disproportionate amount of Omaha-area development takes place on the western edge, some new suburban developments are more than 20 miles away from downtown!

Obviously, there would be challenges to building a rail-transit system in the Big O. Chief among them would be money. Even the lowest cost rail-transit option, streetcars, would cost millions of dollars, but cost issues can be overcome. The federal government pays for a large chunk of most rail-transit systems. Omaha’s unique ability to create strong public-private partnerships could also help the system become a reality.

Another challenge is the lack of population and population density. This can be overcome by selecting the right routes. Though Omaha is only the 58th largest U.S. metro area, it is the 30th most densely populated one. Certain parts of Omaha are already very dense and downtown Omaha is developing a great deal of density.

The benefits of having a transit system would more than make up for the challenges. According to an article in the October 2005 edition of Retail Traffic magazine, rail-transit stations are magnets for real estate development. It turns out that young professionals and empty nesters, the same people who love living in downtown condos, love living in urban developments located along transit lines. In Dallas, real estate developers are building mixed-use neighborhoods next to new transit stations. Residents can live in a nice building in an established urban neighborhood and walk to the transit station. From there, they can go downtown, to the airport or anywhere else the system goes. These developments are injecting billions of dollars into America’s inner cities. Shouldn’t Omaha get its share?

Additionally, rail transit in Omaha would be good for economic development. Companies looking for corporate headquarters locations like cities with rail-transit, because it makes it easier for employees to get to work. Because rail transit is considered a quality-of-life benefit, it helps in recruiting talented people. By connecting a city’s attractions, rail transit makes it easier to recruit conventions and trade shows. Convention planners take great comfort in knowing an efficient transportation system is in place to ferry their conventioneers around town. Rail transit is interesting and unique, so people see it as a fun and enjoyable way of moving about town. That’s good for tourism.

Finally, rail transit would bring the benefits of cleanliness and efficiency to Omaha. For every person who takes rail-transit, there is a corresponding decrease in the amount of air pollution. More importantly, for most people, it saves money. With the price of gasoline going out of control, the thought of rail transit is appealing especially for those on a tight budget. Thirdly, a rail system would decrease traffic congestion. Omaha will continue to grow and will someday be a significantly larger city. We need to plan for that growth now if we don’t want intolerable grid-lock in the future.

Fortunately, some Omahans are looking ahead. One such group is Omaha Streetcar. Anyone interested in learning more about this topic should consider attending Omaha Streetcar’s next meeting scheduled for Wednesday, November 2nd from 6 to 7:30 p.m. at the Spaghetti Works in the Old Market. The cost is $10.99 per person and covers dinner. To make a reservation, go to [email protected].'..

Note: Jeff's column was written 10/29/05, 3 days before the Omaha streetcar event this past Wednesday..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:34 pm

Great column, thanks Cowboy!

papiostud · Post by **papiostud** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:32 pm

I though Charlotte's population was more around 1.6 mil. Who knew Little Rock had a rail system?? Any links or photos?

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:01 pm

You're welcome tuna!..

And thank you for posting the streetcar info for Little Rock Bellevue Kid..Very interesting..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

SaOmaha · Post by **SaOmaha** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:34 pm

Did you hear on television last Wednesday night or read in the Omaha World-Herald Thursday morning paper about the former mayor, Hal Daub Proposal for Omaha Trolley/Streetcar system?

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1636&u_sid=2057670

The Omaha Trolley/Streetcar system could start with a line between Gallup University campus on the riverfront to Qwest Center Omaha and the Durham Western Heritage Museum on 10th Street, with future exactsion toward the airport and the zoo. Another line would run along Farnam and Harney Streets east to midtown/Dundee with a branch up 24th street to Dreamland Plaza at Lake Street.

Omaha Trolley/Streetcar system would help and encourage economic and tourism development in downtown and midtown/Dundee.

There has been at least one 10th Street Trolley Feasibility Study
http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/semise ... 2/trolley/

Hal Daub’ Omaha street group planned to do its own study.

Several years ago a friend and I had a idea for a 10th street trolley line. It’s called the 10th Street Rail Project.

Beside the obvious problems of Trolley/Streetcar, would it help Omaha economic and tourism development?

adam186 · Post by **adam186** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:03 pm

I am posting this for SaOmaha who posted this in the Development thread. I thought it had some useful information.

SaOmaha wrote:Did you hear on television last Wednesday night or read in the Omaha World-Herald Thursday morning paper about the former mayor, Hal Daub Proposal for Omaha Trolley/Streetcar system?

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1636&u_sid=2057670

The Omaha Trolley/Streetcar system could start with a line between Gallup University campus on the riverfront to Qwest Center Omaha and the Durham Western Heritage Museum on 10th Street, with future exactsion toward the airport and the zoo. Another line would run along Farnam and Harney Streets east to midtown/Dundee with a branch up 24th street to Dreamland Plaza at Lake Street.

Omaha Trolley/Streetcar system would help and encourage economic and tourism development in downtown and midtown/Dundee.

There has been at least one 10th Street Trolley Feasibility Study
http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/semise ... 2/trolley/

Hal Daub’ Omaha street group planned to do its own study.

Several years ago a friend and I had a idea for a 10th street trolley line. It’s called the 10th Street Rail Project .

Beside the obvious problems of Trolley/Streetcar, would it help Omaha economic and tourism development?

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:07 am

As per the your comment in the thread started by SaOmaha, Jeff, TWO of OmahaStreetcars founders are regulars on this site. In fact, THE two!!!

redfield · Post by **redfield** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:35 am

3. Is the current City Administration on board, or just the one that was voted out of office and really has no say at the current time?

First, I think Hal brings more horsepower to the effort than you give him credit for.

Second, we probably should be more concerned with the future city administration than the current, as Fahey has indicated this is his last term, and by the time the study is done, he likely won't be in office anymore.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:08 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:As per the your comment in the thread started by SaOmaha, Jeff, TWO of OmahaStreetcars founders are regulars on this site. In fact, THE two!!!

That's exactly right! And further, this whole thing actually kicked off the day of the |expletive| second annual eOmaha forum meet!

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:49 pm

I was in the Old Market the other day and among my purchases was a Streetcar Calendar for 2006 (originally published for 1978 - valid again in 2006) with photos from Richard Orr's collections. I can't tell who is republishing this or if it is at all connected with the Streetcar Coalition - or if any money goes towards the coalition - but thought it was pretty cool

Here is one of their photos:

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:51 pm

Cool! As far as I know, that's not related to Omaha Streetcar in any way, but it definitely adds to the cause!

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:51 pm

Good find!

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:01 pm

Next to this photo was a recent (1978) photo of that intersection and this was under the photo:

March 22, 1952, was a morning that the company hated to see. These four cars near 11th and Farnam Streets were typical of the city's street cars which were stranded along the lines when automobile tires the previous night packed a two-inch wet snow into the tracks where it froze into solid ice. Above-freezing temperatures the night before apparently indicated that spreading salt into the tracks was not necessary. It was noon this Saturday before the ice was laboriously scraped away and temperatures rose above freezing. Omaha Leather was in business from 1884 to 1967, and Johnson Hardware, dating from about 1889, relocated in 1977 when the buildings were torn down to make room for proposed State offices.

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:17 pm

... and here is the 1978 picture of 11th & Farnam:

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:20 pm

Coyote wrote:... and here is the 1978 picture of 11th & Farnam:

That car to the right is a real beauty.

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:24 pm

pkiphd wrote:That car to the right is a real beauty.

I was going to say the same thing. After I posted the pic
- I had to admire that car for a while thinking dang -
I was 17 in 1978 - that could have (should have) been me!

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:38 pm

that first pic is awesome.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:29 pm

A few of you know the Omaha Streetcar Commissioners first met earlier this month; per that meeting, I made a couple updates to our website:

http://www.omahastreetcar.com/

On the Publications page, you can download the two PowerPoint presentations from the November 2 meeting.

On the About Us page, an official map of the Starter Line is available.

Finally, check the News page for the next membership meeting and we plan on having displays at the next Destination Midtown public forums, which will also be posted on this page. But I will make sure to let you guys know when these dates are posted as well.

Enjoy the PowerPoints!

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:00 pm

Looks good! In your honest opinion what percentage would you give to this actually being completed some day?

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:22 pm

Given your time frame of "some day," I would give it a 100%. But I think it will be done in at least 10 years, hopefully only 5.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:56 pm

I suppose I should have been more specific. Since I’m only 23 to me “some day” means by 2010 or can even mean next year lol.

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:22 am

Trolleys may be jolly, say Minneapolis officials
Minneapolis will explore when and where streetcars might be brought back to the city.
Rochelle Olson, Star Tribune

Last update: December 22, 2005 at 6:56 AM

Minneapolis has a desire named streetcar.

The budget for 2006 includes $300,000 to study whether a streetcar line would work and where it should go. The study has the enthusiastic support of Mayor R.T. Rybak and Council Member Gary Schiff, who see the streetcars as a link to a transit-oriented city.

"We're looking to add more energy to our main streets," Rybak said Wednesday. "It puts us on the cutting edge of American cities, ...

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5796278.html

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:31 pm

Nice article! I will make sure the board of directors gets to see this.

Asten · Post by **Asten** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:51 pm

Uffda wrote: "We're looking to add more energy to our main streets," Rybak said Wednesday. "It puts us on the cutting edge of American cities, ...

Hah, I love that an old fashioned concept such as 'trollys' are 'cutting edge'.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:52 am

Zephyr wrote:Enjoy the PowerPoints!

Those presentation powerpoints and the brochure have been converted to pdf. Make sure you have the free Adobe Reader installed on your computer, available at http://www.adobe.com.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:21 am

^ Thanks again for your help with that, tuna!

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:36 am

Streetcar article from the WH. From what I can see, the article sounds like momentum is building.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1636&u_sid=2096839

I've tried to register but for some reason can't, if anyone can get in and post select parts of the article, thanks in advance.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:41 am

You're quick this morning!!...or I'm slow! Here's some exerpts:

OWH wrote:Envision streetcars on rails running in a big oval linking Creighton University, downtown, Mutual of Omaha and the University of Nebraska Medical Center.

Pipe dream?

Wake up.

Some of Omaha's leading corporate executives and the Fahey administration are beginning to think that streetcars are just what Omaha needs.

The people-moving proposal suggested for Omaha is modeled after the Portland, Ore., streetcar system, which turned a former Burlington Northern rail yard and decaying warehouse area into the hot Pearl District.

This is not the type of project that attracts private donations, she said. Other communities have used some combination of city financing and federal funding, Morris said.

The streetcar plan is not the historic trolley line suggested by former Mayor Hal Daub. That proposal called for a line running north and south along 10th Street, serving tourist and entertainment venues from the Qwest Center Omaha to the Henry Doorly Zoo.

Morris said the yearlong study began as an examination of the feasibility of linking the 10th Street venues as a service to tourists. It was conducted by Omaha-based HDR, the architectural, engineering and community planning company.

The people-moving proposal suggested for Omaha is modeled after the Portland, Ore., streetcar system, which turned a former Burlington Northern rail yard and decaying warehouse area into the hot Pearl District.

Overall a positive article about getting streetcars in the Downtown/Midtown areas.

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:00 am

Speaking of the Portland Streetcar system, check out this PDF file regarding development in the area around the streetcar system. Just shy of 1.5 Billion in development! If you think downtown Omaha is on a roll now......

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/pdf/development.pdf

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:04 am

One thing that irritates me about these things is how people see it as either/or. "We can't do light rail, but we can do streetcar."

I would have to ASSUME (cautiouosly) that any implementation of a streetcar system would be planning for a connection to a light rail system in the future, regardless of how distant?

-Big E

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:26 am

I definitely like the decision to go with modern streetcars and favoring the Midtown route. In Omaha's case, I think public funding (from federal, state, and local) doesn't stand a chance. If this project will actually happen, it will be up to the private sector to take the lead. The article listed a lot of big corporations that could benefit from this and cities across the nation have used private funding for streetcar projects. Not sure why they are going to leave this in the hands of the City and not follow through with more private fundraising? I guess this is where Omaha Streetcar steps in!

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:40 am

Big E wrote:One thing that irritates me about these things is how people see it as either/or. "We can't do light rail, but we can do streetcar."

Who's saying it's an either/or proposition? The story laid out (in barebones fashion) why light rail is not really feasible at this time in Omaha. No need to be irritated.

CountOfMC · Post by **CountOfMC** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:37 pm

What the?!? The World Herald says pipe dream and not even a sentence later backs it up with a "Wake Up" comment. Someone pinch me, I think I'm about to faint.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:44 pm

First of all, guys, a modern streetcar system IS a form of light rail, and a gateway to other forms of rail transit.

I'm with Eric, I definitely support the use of modern streetcars to connect downtown, Creighton, midtown, UNMC, and eventually UNO.

This seems very positive, so let's hope it takes this momentum and rolls!!!

omahahawk · Post by **omahahawk** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:01 pm

Zephyr wrote: Not sure why they are going to leave this in the hands of the City and not follow through with more private fundraising? I guess this is where Omaha Streetcar steps in!

go get 'em Zephyr