Scoular moving & Streetcar discussion-

[Downtown Resident]

Another one bites the dust. Rumor is Scoular is considering between Boystown or 192nd and Dodge for their new headquarters per an employee I know.

Shame that they wouldn’t consider the Lanaha or one of the other many downtown projects hoping to hand a major office user.

[Greg S]

What is going in their place? I heard it had been sold.

[bigredmed1]

These people are in the brains business. Lots of brains are married and it’s easier for the brains to commute to 144th and Dodge than to 14th and Dodge. If your city’s selling point is lifestyle, you have to give the newly recruited brains what they want. Easy no hassle lifestyle.

[Original]

They also no longer have any grain operations in the immediate Omaha metro - I think Fremont and Hastings are their closest? So no reason to be downtown near an elevator or river terminal any more.

[nebugeater]

They also no longer have any grain operations in the immediate Omaha metro - I think Fremont and Hastings are their closest? So no reason to be downtown near an elevator or river terminal any more.

If the location to a working terminal was important for the headquarters they would be moving to Western Nebraska / Kansas.

https://www.scoular.com/our-locations

[Greg S]

These people are in the brains business. Lots of brains are married and it’s easier for the brains to commute to 144th and Dodge than to 14th and Dodge. If your city’s selling point is lifestyle, you have to give the newly recruited brains what they want. Easy no hassle lifestyle.

You definitely want to locate where you can attract the best. If it's the younger up and coming millennial's, that would be downtown. Especially if recruiting from out of Omaha. In town, if you are going older worker, it's easier out west.

Greg

[bigredmed1]

Yeah, I don’t agree here. I work with a lot of young brains. Only one lives in Blackstone and all the others started out west. The one who lives in Blackstone is house shopping in west Omaha.

The concept of the young hip swinging singles place is not really accurate. Most young people are either too poor to afford the areas or are starting families and want to have a safe place to live. I think that a lot of businesses get feed back from the people with skin in the game (the employees who actually do the commuting) that they don’t want to schlep all the way downtown and pay for parking when there are closer options that are more practical.

Downtown is best reconceived as a neighborhood that sustains itself locally. Trying to be a magnet for the city is a bust without cheap reliable mass transit. Trying to be hip and now is turning into a grey haired waiting room for the nursing home like in other cities.

[ita]

Yeah, I don’t agree here. I work with a lot of young brains. Only one lives in Blackstone and all the others started out west. The one who lives in Blackstone is house shopping in west Omaha.

The concept of the young hip swinging singles place is not really accurate. Most young people are either too poor to afford the areas or are starting families and want to have a safe place to live. I think that a lot of businesses get feed back from the people with skin in the game (the employees who actually do the commuting) that they don’t want to schlep all the way downtown and pay for parking when there are closer options that are more practical.

Downtown is best reconceived as a neighborhood that sustains itself locally. Trying to be a magnet for the city is a bust without cheap reliable mass transit. Trying to be hip and now is turning into a grey haired waiting room for the nursing home like in other cities.

My experience, well the experience of others I worked with at a prior job, is quite the opposite. My first job out of grad school, which I just left recently, was with a company that emphasized hiring young (24-27 year olds), mostly out of state grad school graduates. A super majority, particularly those from out of state, lived downtown/midtown (I am talking Midtown Crossing, Blackstone, and Gifford Park). They hired 10-15 every year that fell in that category. For the most part, they preferred living in urban Omaha than out west. People who lived out west preferred convenience over lifestyle.

[Original]

They also no longer have any grain operations in the immediate Omaha metro - I think Fremont and Hastings are their closest? So no reason to be downtown near an elevator or river terminal any more.

If the location to a working terminal was important for the headquarters they would be moving to Western Nebraska / Kansas.

I should clarify - I have worked with grain elevator companies at several different stops in my career. Some elevator companies that are trying to grow or trying to move past co-op roots take pride in the fact that their HQ is attached or adjacent to an elevator or river terminal, and emphasize the farming credentials of their executives. (note, companies like Gavilon do not have identifiable coop roots, and so aren't part of that equation) I never worked with Scoular so I don't know much about them (Interestingly, googling reveals connections to my hometown in Kansas that I never knew of), but what I see is that the current management does not have the connection to the physical operations that other orgs do. Either way, it is not surprising that since their connection to downtown is no longer based on their operations, they would reevaluate where they are located.

[Taco]

Yeah, I don’t agree here. I work with a lot of young brains. Only one lives in Blackstone and all the others started out west. The one who lives in Blackstone is house shopping in west Omaha.

The concept of the young hip swinging singles place is not really accurate. Most young people are either too poor to afford the areas or are starting families and want to have a safe place to live. I think that a lot of businesses get feed back from the people with skin in the game (the employees who actually do the commuting) that they don’t want to schlep all the way downtown and pay for parking when there are closer options that are more practical.

Downtown is best reconceived as a neighborhood that sustains itself locally. Trying to be a magnet for the city is a bust without cheap reliable mass transit. Trying to be hip and now is turning into a grey haired waiting room for the nursing home like in other cities.

My experience, well the experience of others I worked with at a prior job, is quite the opposite. My first job out of grad school, which I just left recently, was with a company that emphasized hiring young (24-27 year olds), mostly out of state grad school graduates. A super majority, particularly those from out of state, lived downtown/midtown (I am talking Midtown Crossing, Blackstone, and Gifford Park). They hired 10-15 every year that fell in that category. For the most part, they preferred living in urban Omaha than out west. People who lived out west preferred convenience over lifestyle.

I echo this second experience. I am young and I like to think fairly educated and I live East of 60th. My social circle is almost entirely east of 72nd. I regularly go months without going west of 72nd or south of Q. The young people I know living out west are largely married and trying to start a family or have moved to Omaha from a small town. I do not live in the city for the convenience, rather I prefer a walkable neighborhood with local businesses, tall trees, and attractive design.

[Greg S]

Yeah, I don’t agree here. I work with a lot of young brains. Only one lives in Blackstone and all the others started out west. The one who lives in Blackstone is house shopping in west Omaha.

The concept of the young hip swinging singles place is not really accurate. Most young people are either too poor to afford the areas or are starting families and want to have a safe place to live. I think that a lot of businesses get feed back from the people with skin in the game (the employees who actually do the commuting) that they don’t want to schlep all the way downtown and pay for parking when there are closer options that are more practical.

Downtown is best reconceived as a neighborhood that sustains itself locally. Trying to be a magnet for the city is a bust without cheap reliable mass transit. Trying to be hip and now is turning into a grey haired waiting room for the nursing home like in other cities.

My experience, well the experience of others I worked with at a prior job, is quite the opposite. My first job out of grad school, which I just left recently, was with a company that emphasized hiring young (24-27 year olds), mostly out of state grad school graduates. A super majority, particularly those from out of state, lived downtown/midtown (I am talking Midtown Crossing, Blackstone, and Gifford Park). They hired 10-15 every year that fell in that category. For the most part, they preferred living in urban Omaha than out west. People who lived out west preferred convenience over lifestyle.

I echo this second experience. I am young and I like to think fairly educated and I live East of 60th. My social circle is almost entirely east of 72nd. I regularly go months without going west of 72nd or south of Q. The young people I know living out west are largely married and trying to start a family or have moved to Omaha from a small town. I do not live in the city for the convenience, rather I prefer a walkable neighborhood with local businesses, tall trees, and attractive design.

I have been in recruiting and hr for over 20 years. I recruit locally, regionally and nationally but have filled more jobs locally. I will stick with my original statement and agree with Taco. That's what I have seen play out. The younger hires I have brought into Omaha more often than not are not interested in West O, Gretna, Elkhorn and Sarpy. They are more attracted to Mid Town, Benson and such. Looks like Ak Sar Ben is trending that way too.

I do think for Omaha to take the next step they need to add light rail to the mix. I get asked about that all the time from out of state millenials.

Greg

[Omaha Cowboy]

I do think for Omaha to take the next step they need to add light rail to the mix. I get asked about that all the time from out of state millenials.

Greg

This is interesting to hear and not surprising..And I don’t disagree..

The biggest hurdles to overcome (for light rail to become reality in Omaha) is a mix of population density combined with the even bigger hurdle- cost.. If Omaha was a metro approaching 2 million in population instead of the current 1 million..It’d be much easier to sell and justify..Even if the light rail system only functioned from 72nd East to Downtown..

There, seemingly, has been millions of $$ spent on “studies” for Omaha light rail or streetcar systems since at least 2003..The Omaha metro has added about 200,000 in population since then and we remain in or out of “studies mode” with nothing to show for the $$ spent..

Millennials definitely are attracted to a metropolitan area that has a commitment to multiple, legitimate public transportation options.. Not to be Captain Obvious, but in this area, Omaha has a long way to go...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[Louie]

As someone who works in a 'young, hip' company...about 50-60% of our employees live east of 72nd.

[ita]

I do think for Omaha to take the next step they need to add light rail to the mix. I get asked about that all the time from out of state millenials.

Greg

This is interesting to hear and not surprising..And I don’t disagree..

The biggest hurdles to overcome for light rail to become reality in Omaha is a mix of population density combined with the even bigger hurdle- cost.. If Omaha was a metro approaching 2 million in population instead of the current 1 million..It’d be much easier to sell and justify..Even if the light rail system only functioned from 72nd East to Downtown..

There, seemingly, has been millions of $$ spent on “studies” for Omaha light rail or streetcar systems since at least 2003..The Omaha metro has added about 200,000 in population since then and we remain in or out of “studies mode” with nothing to show for the $$ spent..

Millennials definitely are attracted to a metropolitan area that has a commitment to multiple, legitimate public transportation options.. Not to be Captain Obvious, but in this area, Omaha has a long way to go...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I know this is moving away from the initial conversation, but since the 2000's and serious studies have been done concerning possible fixed rail projects in Omaha, with the growth in population, I am sure demographics have changed as well. With that, I think now, more than ever there is more public support for a some kind of rail project. The issue is whether public leaders can justify funding an expensive public transit project and how to fund it. With growing public-private projects, I think there could be possible private investment in such a project that may not have been there before. Concerning the number of reports and studies done on rail projects, I would rather have things ironed out, especially with a many people in Omaha still skeptical about whether a rail project is worth the cost, than move forward with a project and end up overbudget or having inefficient or underused routes. While I am a proponent of rail, the light rail project on Oahu, is a perfect example of why I would rather have considerable information and data before moving forward on a rail project in Omaha. That project is going to cost almost double originally estimated ($5 Billion to over $9 billion) and their timeline, well lets say that currently they don't know when it will be completed.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I'll reiterate what I've said in the past and that is that it's not so much the regional population figure that's important for making rail-based transit work, it's the population density. That's why metros in Europe smaller than Omaha have tram systems that lead all over the region while it's nearly unheard of for a metro in North America less than 1m population to have a similarly comprehensive system. Of metros in North America less than 1m that aren't in the immediate shadow of other, much larger metros, Honolulu is the only one with an extensive rail system (eventually). That is due significantly to its location on a small, mountainous island which has necessitated significant density there.

I think we could successfully implement a light rail project now as long as it is paired with a plan to increase density along its corridors, preferably simultaneously. Every station not downtown would need plans for TOD and, should transportation planners care to venture much past 72nd street, attractive, useful park-and-ride infrastructure.

I'd also recommend taking the Chicago approach to encouraging transit ridership by making driving into downtown/midtown expensive and frustrating (ie, stop widening highways and charge $6-10 dollars/hr for parking) but, that's a little idealistic.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I do think for Omaha to take the next step they need to add light rail to the mix. I get asked about that all the time from out of state millenials.

Greg

This is interesting to hear and not surprising..And I don’t disagree..

The biggest hurdles to overcome for light rail to become reality in Omaha is a mix of population density combined with the even bigger hurdle- cost.. If Omaha was a metro approaching 2 million in population instead of the current 1 million..It’d be much easier to sell and justify..Even if the light rail system only functioned from 72nd East to Downtown..

There, seemingly, has been millions of $$ spent on “studies” for Omaha light rail or streetcar systems since at least 2003..The Omaha metro has added about 200,000 in population since then and we remain in or out of “studies mode” with nothing to show for the $$ spent..

Millennials definitely are attracted to a metropolitan area that has a commitment to multiple, legitimate public transportation options.. Not to be Captain Obvious, but in this area, Omaha has a long way to go...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I know this is moving away from the initial conversation, but since the 2000's and serious studies have been done concerning possible fixed rail projects in Omaha, with the growth in population, I am sure demographics have changed as well. With that, I think now, more than ever there is more public support for a some kind of rail project. The issue is whether public leaders can justify funding an expensive public transit project and how to fund it. With growing public-private projects, I think there could be possible private investment in such a project that may not have been there before. Concerning the number of reports and studies done on rail projects, I would rather have things ironed out, especially with a many people in Omaha still skeptical about whether a rail project is worth the cost, than move forward with a project and end up overbudget or having inefficient or underused routes. While I am a proponent of rail, the light rail project on Oahu, is a perfect example of why I would rather have considerable information and data before moving forward on a rail project in Omaha. That project is going to cost almost double originally estimated ($5 Billion to over $9 billion) and their timeline, well lets say that currently they don't know when it will be completed.

Well, the last study, a streetcar study, which cost $610,000 was completed in March of 2018. A snippet from the 3/2018 W-H piece-

“With a new study estimating the cost of an Omaha streetcar at $170 million, Mayor Jean Stothert says it’s up to streetcar advocates to push the project ahead. She says she would require a public vote if tax dollars are involved.

The taxpayers, she said, will decide if the project moves forward. Stothert said she sees possible benefits, including a transportation option that boosts economic development and decreases traffic congestion. But she said she won’t consider a vote until streetcar advocates secure funding.

Still, she said, “If the City of Omaha had any dollars in the project, it would have to be (put to) a citywide vote.”

The new cost projection, released Friday, is $14 million more than the previous estimate, which was based on costs from 2014 and was not as detailed as the latest analysis. The new “advanced conceptual engineering” study considered the cost of moving such utilities as power, sewer and water lines; building basic streetcar stops; traffic adjustments and other factors.”

Here is the complete copy of that 2018 study-

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnew ... 46.pdf.pdf

This study was released over 2 years ago, at a hefty $610k price tag..and it’s been collecting dust since. The study prior to that was 2014 etc etc..

My point is, Omaha has poured huge sums of money into multiple streetcar/light rail “studies” only to have zilch to show for it.. I agree, we must have a handle on cost. As I stated in my previous post, cost and population density are the 2 biggest hurdles for Omaha to sell the public that streetcar or rail is a viable necessity in moving the city forward.. The 2018 numbers are still fairly fresh. But sadly, I haven’t heard anything since September of 2019 with this W-H piece-

“Omaha’s streetcar discussions are back — with new, influential backers on board.

A group within the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce is taking a new look at the streetcar concept, even starting over examining why and how Omaha would even run a streetcar.

The chamber has formed a group called the Urban Core Committee to study ways to step up Omaha’s development, housing and jobs in its urban center. Part of that is looking at how to move people around the urban core, including a streetcar.

That’s just part of Omaha’s continuing series of studies on the streetcar. By Modern Streetcar Advocates’ count, Omaha has conducted 30 studies on the topic over the last 15 years.

Noddle is prepared to study it more, saying he wants to make sure the committee looks at the issues thoroughly.”

The story link-

https://www.omaha.com/news/local/omahas ... 01c3d.html

The code word here- is yet another study..right after the $610k March/2018 study..

30 Omaha streetcar studies have been conducted..THIRTY.. That’s mind blowing. Money has been spent and yet nothing realized in nearly 20 years. It gets a bit disheartening when you jump down that rabbit hole and take a closer look into this...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[ita]

I do think for Omaha to take the next step they need to add light rail to the mix. I get asked about that all the time from out of state millenials.

Greg

This is interesting to hear and not surprising..And I don’t disagree..

The biggest hurdles to overcome for light rail to become reality in Omaha is a mix of population density combined with the even bigger hurdle- cost.. If Omaha was a metro approaching 2 million in population instead of the current 1 million..It’d be much easier to sell and justify..Even if the light rail system only functioned from 72nd East to Downtown..

There, seemingly, has been millions of $$ spent on “studies” for Omaha light rail or streetcar systems since at least 2003..The Omaha metro has added about 200,000 in population since then and we remain in or out of “studies mode” with nothing to show for the $$ spent..

Millennials definitely are attracted to a metropolitan area that has a commitment to multiple, legitimate public transportation options.. Not to be Captain Obvious, but in this area, Omaha has a long way to go...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I know this is moving away from the initial conversation, but since the 2000's and serious studies have been done concerning possible fixed rail projects in Omaha, with the growth in population, I am sure demographics have changed as well. With that, I think now, more than ever there is more public support for a some kind of rail project. The issue is whether public leaders can justify funding an expensive public transit project and how to fund it. With growing public-private projects, I think there could be possible private investment in such a project that may not have been there before. Concerning the number of reports and studies done on rail projects, I would rather have things ironed out, especially with a many people in Omaha still skeptical about whether a rail project is worth the cost, than move forward with a project and end up overbudget or having inefficient or underused routes. While I am a proponent of rail, the light rail project on Oahu, is a perfect example of why I would rather have considerable information and data before moving forward on a rail project in Omaha. That project is going to cost almost double originally estimated ($5 Billion to over $9 billion) and their timeline, well lets say that currently they don't know when it will be completed.

Well, the last study, a streetcar study, which cost $610,000 was completed in March of 2018. A snippet from the 3/2018 W-H piece-

“With a new study estimating the cost of an Omaha streetcar at $170 million, Mayor Jean Stothert says it’s up to streetcar advocates to push the project ahead. She says she would require a public vote if tax dollars are involved.

The taxpayers, she said, will decide if the project moves forward. Stothert said she sees possible benefits, including a transportation option that boosts economic development and decreases traffic congestion. But she said she won’t consider a vote until streetcar advocates secure funding.

Still, she said, “If the City of Omaha had any dollars in the project, it would have to be (put to) a citywide vote.”

The new cost projection, released Friday, is $14 million more than the previous estimate, which was based on costs from 2014 and was not as detailed as the latest analysis. The new “advanced conceptual engineering” study considered the cost of moving such utilities as power, sewer and water lines; building basic streetcar stops; traffic adjustments and other factors.”

Here is the complete copy of that 2018 study-

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnew ... 46.pdf.pdf

This study was released over 2 years ago, at a hefty $610k price tag..and it’s been collecting dust since. The study prior to that was 2014 etc etc..

My point is, Omaha has poured huge sums of money into multiple streetcar/light rail “studies” only to have zilch to show for it.. I agree, we must have a handle on cost. As I stated in my previous post, cost and population density are the 2 biggest hurdles for Omaha to sell the public that streetcar or rail is a viable necessity in moving the city forward.. The 2018 numbers are still fairly fresh. But sadly, I haven’t heard anything since September of 2019 with this W-H piece-

“Omaha’s streetcar discussions are back — with new, influential backers on board.

A group within the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce is taking a new look at the streetcar concept, even starting over examining why and how Omaha would even run a streetcar.

The chamber has formed a group called the Urban Core Committee to study ways to step up Omaha’s development, housing and jobs in its urban center. Part of that is looking at how to move people around the urban core, including a streetcar.

That’s just part of Omaha’s continuing series of studies on the streetcar. By Modern Streetcar Advocates’ count, Omaha has conducted 30 studies on the topic over the last 15 years.

Noddle is prepared to study it more, saying he wants to make sure the committee looks at the issues thoroughly.”

The story link-

https://www.omaha.com/news/local/omahas ... 01c3d.html

The code word here- is yet another study..right after the $610k March/2018 study..

30 Omaha streetcar studies have been conducted..THIRTY.. That’s mind blowing. Money has been spent and yet nothing realized in nearly 20 years. It gets a bit disheartening when you jump down that rabbit hole and take a closer look into this...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Since I have not been in Omaha for as long as many on the forum, I haven't been burned as much on the streetcar/rail project thing. My patience has not waned as much as a result. However, I did not remember that article stating that 30 studies have been done. That does seem excessive. I have more hope in the ConnectGo initiative because it is a joint effort with MAPA. Additionally, with the Chamber heading the project, it would seem like there is inherent support from the business community, including the movers and shakers of the City. I recently contact the Chamber about ConnectGo and there are some delays, but there should be a major update next month. There seemed to be a shift in the general conversation concerning public transportation in the region and some things happening that was extremely positive including the start of the BRT project, the ConnectGo project going into full swing, the bill passed to allow creation of regional transportation group, and the City's efforts to create regulations for TOD development. The pandemic and recession has thrown off some of the momentum we were building, but I think the City and region is heading in the right direction for something to happen in the next few years.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I do think for Omaha to take the next step they need to add light rail to the mix. I get asked about that all the time from out of state millenials.

Greg

This is interesting to hear and not surprising..And I don’t disagree..

The biggest hurdles to overcome for light rail to become reality in Omaha is a mix of population density combined with the even bigger hurdle- cost.. If Omaha was a metro approaching 2 million in population instead of the current 1 million..It’d be much easier to sell and justify..Even if the light rail system only functioned from 72nd East to Downtown..

There, seemingly, has been millions of $$ spent on “studies” for Omaha light rail or streetcar systems since at least 2003..The Omaha metro has added about 200,000 in population since then and we remain in or out of “studies mode” with nothing to show for the $$ spent..

Millennials definitely are attracted to a metropolitan area that has a commitment to multiple, legitimate public transportation options.. Not to be Captain Obvious, but in this area, Omaha has a long way to go...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I know this is moving away from the initial conversation, but since the 2000's and serious studies have been done concerning possible fixed rail projects in Omaha, with the growth in population, I am sure demographics have changed as well. With that, I think now, more than ever there is more public support for a some kind of rail project. The issue is whether public leaders can justify funding an expensive public transit project and how to fund it. With growing public-private projects, I think there could be possible private investment in such a project that may not have been there before. Concerning the number of reports and studies done on rail projects, I would rather have things ironed out, especially with a many people in Omaha still skeptical about whether a rail project is worth the cost, than move forward with a project and end up overbudget or having inefficient or underused routes. While I am a proponent of rail, the light rail project on Oahu, is a perfect example of why I would rather have considerable information and data before moving forward on a rail project in Omaha. That project is going to cost almost double originally estimated ($5 Billion to over $9 billion) and their timeline, well lets say that currently they don't know when it will be completed.

Well, the last study, a streetcar study, which cost $610,000 was completed in March of 2018. A snippet from the 3/2018 W-H piece-

“With a new study estimating the cost of an Omaha streetcar at $170 million, Mayor Jean Stothert says it’s up to streetcar advocates to push the project ahead. She says she would require a public vote if tax dollars are involved.

The taxpayers, she said, will decide if the project moves forward. Stothert said she sees possible benefits, including a transportation option that boosts economic development and decreases traffic congestion. But she said she won’t consider a vote until streetcar advocates secure funding.

Still, she said, “If the City of Omaha had any dollars in the project, it would have to be (put to) a citywide vote.”

The new cost projection, released Friday, is $14 million more than the previous estimate, which was based on costs from 2014 and was not as detailed as the latest analysis. The new “advanced conceptual engineering” study considered the cost of moving such utilities as power, sewer and water lines; building basic streetcar stops; traffic adjustments and other factors.”

Here is the complete copy of that 2018 study-

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnew ... 46.pdf.pdf

This study was released over 2 years ago, at a hefty $610k price tag..and it’s been collecting dust since. The study prior to that was 2014 etc etc..

My point is, Omaha has poured huge sums of money into multiple streetcar/light rail “studies” only to have zilch to show for it.. I agree, we must have a handle on cost. As I stated in my previous post, cost and population density are the 2 biggest hurdles for Omaha to sell the public that streetcar or rail is a viable necessity in moving the city forward.. The 2018 numbers are still fairly fresh. But sadly, I haven’t heard anything since September of 2019 with this W-H piece-

“Omaha’s streetcar discussions are back — with new, influential backers on board.

A group within the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce is taking a new look at the streetcar concept, even starting over examining why and how Omaha would even run a streetcar.

The chamber has formed a group called the Urban Core Committee to study ways to step up Omaha’s development, housing and jobs in its urban center. Part of that is looking at how to move people around the urban core, including a streetcar.

That’s just part of Omaha’s continuing series of studies on the streetcar. By Modern Streetcar Advocates’ count, Omaha has conducted 30 studies on the topic over the last 15 years.

Noddle is prepared to study it more, saying he wants to make sure the committee looks at the issues thoroughly.”

The story link-

https://www.omaha.com/news/local/omahas ... 01c3d.html

The code word here- is yet another study..right after the $610k March/2018 study..

30 Omaha streetcar studies have been conducted..THIRTY.. That’s mind blowing. Money has been spent and yet nothing realized in nearly 20 years. It gets a bit disheartening when you jump down that rabbit hole and take a closer look into this...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Since I have not been in Omaha for as long as many on the forum, I haven't been burned as much on the streetcar/rail project thing. My patience has not waned as much as a result. However, I did not remember that article stating that 30 studies have been done. That does seem excessive. I have more hope in the ConnectGo initiative because it is a joint effort with MAPA. Additionally, with the Chamber heading the project, it would seem like there is inherent support from the business community, including the movers and shakers of the City. I recently contact the Chamber about ConnectGo and there are some delays, but there should be a major update next month. There seemed to be a shift in the general conversation concerning public transportation in the region and some things happening that was extremely positive including the start of the BRT project, the ConnectGo project going into full swing, the bill passed to allow creation of regional transportation group, and the City's efforts to create regulations for TOD development. The pandemic and recession has thrown off some of the momentum we were building, but I think the City and region is heading in the right direction for something to happen in the next few years.

I can recall the first Omaha streetcar public meeting I attended, with several forum members at the time, was back in 2005. I believe Omaha Streetcar put on the event and they invited someone up from Little Rock, Arkansas to speak (I have forgotten his name).. Little Rock had just completed their new streetcar line in 2004, which I think originally ran about 3.5 to 4 miles.. It’s expanded since then..

So this has definitely been a point of frustration for many years. I still remain hopeful that down the line, Omaha can realize some form of alternative rail transportation in the near future..We know it would help give Omaha an additional layer of attractiveness for future employees looking for a desirable place to live with multiple public transit options...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[Omahacritic]

They also no longer have any grain operations in the immediate Omaha metro - I think Fremont and Hastings are their closest? So no reason to be downtown near an elevator or river terminal any more.

If the location to a working terminal was important for the headquarters they would be moving to Western Nebraska / Kansas.

I should clarify - I have worked with grain elevator companies at several different stops in my career. Some elevator companies that are trying to grow or trying to move past co-op roots take pride in the fact that their HQ is attached or adjacent to an elevator or river terminal, and emphasize the farming credentials of their executives. (note, companies like Gavilon do not have identifiable coop roots, and so aren't part of that equation) I never worked with Scoular so I don't know much about them (Interestingly, googling reveals connections to my hometown in Kansas that I never knew of), but what I see is that the current management does not have the connection to the physical operations that other orgs do. Either way, it is not surprising that since their connection to downtown is no longer based on their operations, they would reevaluate where they are located.

This part of conversation is much better than beating that dead horse street car portion.

Educate us more. How are the huge grain elevator companies expected to function in the future? Will storage become a sub-business ... kind of like oil and gas industries?

Is farming credentials important?

[OmahaJaysCU]

I’ve said this before and will say it again. Show me a company in Omaha, I don’t care who they are and what they do, that aren’t locating themselves more conveniently to a large percentage of their employees by locating off 144th and dodge than downtown. Look at the list of companies that people think logically should be downtown, your tech companies, linked in, Yahoo, etc. they pry didn’t even consider downtown, and I don’t blame them.

The problem is twofold. One, affordable housing stock is overwhelmingly on the fringe of town. Young people in Omaha don’t automatically live in midtown as much as people think or would like to believe. Do a high percentage of them? Absolutely. But we lack diversity in housing stock in East Omaha and a lot of people are priced out. It’s either A) buy a rapidly appreciating house in Morton Meadows, Aksarben, etc., or B) rent an overly expensive apartment. We don’t have any condos, townhomes, duplexes, etc that can help create density.

Second biggest problem and it’s been alluded to with the transit talk, is that as a city we overly invested in suburban housing for 20 years. People often are critical of transit and the impact it has on corridors. There is one single investment that I believe had the biggest impact on how Omaha looks today, and that was the West Dodge Expressway and development of West Dodge into a freeway. This wasn’t an accident. City leaders didn’t build the 132nd street interchange by accident. It was strategic. They decided we want to promote growth along this corridor, so they made the investment to do so. What does Omaha look like today if they slapped stoplights at major intersections on Dodge street?

I by no means am saying that was a poor investment, but as most housing and growth decisions go, it was a municipally made decision that guided development for decades. That is how people need to think about mass transit. People get too tied into what is there today and are unwilling or unable to see it as an investment in a different direction for an area of town.

Anyway, what does this have to do with companies not wanting to locate downtown? The city decided suburban growth is more important than urban growth decades ago. Housing stock has finally reached the point where it simply makes the most sense.

Tirade end.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I’ve said this before and will say it again. Show me a company in Omaha, I don’t care who they are and what they do, that aren’t locating themselves more conveniently to a large percentage of their employees by locating off 144th and dodge than downtown. Look at the list of companies that people think logically should be downtown, your tech companies, linked in, Yahoo, etc. they pry didn’t even consider downtown, and I don’t blame them.

The problem is twofold. One, affordable housing stock is overwhelmingly on the fringe of town. Young people in Omaha don’t automatically live in midtown as much as people think or would like to believe. Do a high percentage of them? Absolutely. But we lack diversity in housing stock in East Omaha and a lot of people are priced out. It’s either A) buy a rapidly appreciating house in Morton Meadows, Aksarben, etc., or B) rent an overly expensive apartment. We don’t have any condos, townhomes, duplexes, etc that can help create density.

Second biggest problem and it’s been alluded to with the transit talk, is that as a city we overly invested in suburban housing for 20 years. People often are critical of transit and the impact it has on corridors. There is one single investment that I believe had the biggest impact on how Omaha looks today, and that was the West Dodge Expressway and development of West Dodge into a freeway. This wasn’t an accident. City leaders didn’t build the 132nd street interchange by accident. It was strategic. They decided we want to promote growth along this corridor, so they made the investment to do so. What does Omaha look like today if they slapped stoplights at major intersections on Dodge street?

I by no means am saying that was a poor investment, but as most housing and growth decisions go, it was a municipally made decision that guided development for decades. That is how people need to think about mass transit. People get too tied into what is there today and are unwilling or unable to see it as an investment in a different direction for an area of town.

Anyway, what does this have to do with companies not wanting to locate downtown? The city decided suburban growth is more important than urban growth decades ago. Housing stock has finally reached the point where it simply makes the most sense.

Tirade end.

Well, there is Toast, Millwork Commons, Flywheel, Kiewit and Markel who have recently located downtown..or are about to.. Then there is First National which landed in 2002..and I’m not even throwing in the monkey wrench of AkSarBen Village and the multiple business that have shifted offices/HQ’s/employees there- and east of 72nd st (we’ll, maybe I just threw that wrench in )..

Overall Jays, I don’t disagree with your take.. I will add though, that part of the 3 phase Riverfront development plan is the hope that it spurs ancillary multiple mixed used development including residential.. If, by some minor miracle, Lanoha’s residential highrise is realized, that will be significant..to compliment the Capitol District residential component.. And additional new residential has/is popping up just south of downtown from 10th to 13th street.. There can be a turnaround to re carve a niche here. It will simply take time, patience, true commitment and persistence...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[bigredmed1]

If the residential areas are 4dimensional. That is that a guy could move in, get married, raise a family, send his kids to a GOOD school, and grow old there, they could work. Lose 4 dimensionality, get transience. Get that and downtown doesn’t work as a neighborhood.

And AK village is barely East of 72nd. Putting a HQ there is not the same as putting one on 14th and Sketchy After Dark. To say nothing about 12th and Walk 4 Blocks to Parking Street.

[Original]

How are the huge grain elevator companies expected to function in the future? Will storage become a sub-business ... kind of like oil and gas industries?

Is farming credentials important?

Well, the ABCD (ADM, Bunge, Cargill, Dreyfus) level of companies are diversified entities that are their own category, there execs can be legacy, ag, logistics, accounting, anywhere. Those companies are as deeply connected to farming any more (oh, this is a huge over simplification, and they are of course connected to farming, but they are Agriculture companies, not farming companies, and there is a difference.) The Grain Elevator part of their business is just that, part of their business.

Then there is the second tier, companies like Gavilon, Scoular, Bartlett, etc. Those companies are more closely connected to farming, and while they are definitely Ag companies and not farming companies, grain storage and handling are core to their business.

The next several tiers are basically levels of co-ops, or family-run elevator businesses. These are usually more closely connected to the farmer and to farm communities. Usually they will have heavy farm ties, and will publicly and proudly talk about how many acres their staff farm, that the board President is a 5th gen farmer, etc.

The most important thing to have as a shorthand to understand how companies operate in this area is that there is a lot of cash flow in farming and in ag. A lot. A smallish, 2 location elevator company could churn through $50m in a year. That’s not profit or revenue, just the amount of cash going through. Big operations have gotten big because they have leveraged efficiencies to reduce overhead and take the same or smaller percentage as a small company and then make a ton more money. This is similar to oil and gas, with all the subsequent advantages, disadvantages, and pathologies.

Note as I say all this, I worked to provide software systems to elevators, so my perspective is an industry outsider who got to see a lot of inside baseball things and took years to put some of this together. Some of what I said is wrong in detail, surely, but I don’t think wrong in broad scope.

[Omahacritic]

Original. .. interesting stuff. Sounds like there is a lot of cash float at certain times. Similar to ho2 oil moves from well to pipeline to refinery, back to pipeline, then storage and finally to retail.

I need to do some more research.

[ita]

I’ve said this before and will say it again. Show me a company in Omaha, I don’t care who they are and what they do, that aren’t locating themselves more conveniently to a large percentage of their employees by locating off 144th and dodge than downtown. Look at the list of companies that people think logically should be downtown, your tech companies, linked in, Yahoo, etc. they pry didn’t even consider downtown, and I don’t blame them.

The problem is twofold. One, affordable housing stock is overwhelmingly on the fringe of town. Young people in Omaha don’t automatically live in midtown as much as people think or would like to believe. Do a high percentage of them? Absolutely. But we lack diversity in housing stock in East Omaha and a lot of people are priced out. It’s either A) buy a rapidly appreciating house in Morton Meadows, Aksarben, etc., or B) rent an overly expensive apartment. We don’t have any condos, townhomes, duplexes, etc that can help create density.

Second biggest problem and it’s been alluded to with the transit talk, is that as a city we overly invested in suburban housing for 20 years. People often are critical of transit and the impact it has on corridors. There is one single investment that I believe had the biggest impact on how Omaha looks today, and that was the West Dodge Expressway and development of West Dodge into a freeway. This wasn’t an accident. City leaders didn’t build the 132nd street interchange by accident. It was strategic. They decided we want to promote growth along this corridor, so they made the investment to do so. What does Omaha look like today if they slapped stoplights at major intersections on Dodge street?

I by no means am saying that was a poor investment, but as most housing and growth decisions go, it was a municipally made decision that guided development for decades. That is how people need to think about mass transit. People get too tied into what is there today and are unwilling or unable to see it as an investment in a different direction for an area of town.

Anyway, what does this have to do with companies not wanting to locate downtown? The city decided suburban growth is more important than urban growth decades ago. Housing stock has finally reached the point where it simply makes the most sense.

Tirade end.

Well, there is Toast, Millwork Commons, Flywheel, Kiewit and Markel who have recently located downtown..or are about to.. Then there is First National which landed in 2002..and I’m not even throwing in the monkey wrench of AkSarBen Village and the multiple business that have shifted offices/HQ’s/employees there- and east of 72nd st (we’ll, maybe I just threw that wrench in )..

Overall Jays, I don’t disagree with your take.. I will add though, that part of the 3 phase Riverfront development plan is the hope that it spurs ancillary multiple mixed used development including residential.. If, by some minor miracle, Lanoha’s residential highrise is realized, that will be significant..to compliment the Capitol District residential component.. And additional new residential has/is popping up just south of downtown from 10th to 13th street.. There can be a turnaround to re carve a niche here. It will simply take time, patience, true commitment and persistence...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

OmahaJaysCU, I agree with your insight on the City's priorities of suburban growth decades ago that has affected the current trend of suburban location/relocation of large office users. As to the affordable housing issue, I would have to argue that affordable housing stock is primarily in urban Omaha. However, it is not in the neighborhoods people generally associate young people moving to, like North and South Omaha. If you are talking new construction, than sure, I'd agree with you. Outside of the Midtown Rowhouses, or whatever that project is called, there has not been much for sale new construction in urban Omaha that you can call affordable housing. However, that Missing Middle housing you are referring to falls right in the cross-hairs of the Urban Plannings Department's current TOD's initiative. That initiative will lay the foundation for the City to see more Missing Middle housing in the urban core and fill that need for new construction, affordable housing.

Additionally, as I mentioned in a prior post, I believe that the tide is changing to promote more urban development. While history helps us understand where we are now, I think we are setting up for a brighter future for urban development in the Metro. This goes across the board in terms of who is participating and involved; City, County, citizens/neighborhood groups, business leaders, MAPA, and the Chamber, they are all involved in recent and current efforts to that end. The Riverfront development is one piece in the larger pie of what's going on to promote growth in urban Omaha development, but there are several moving pieces that will help that development be a real catalyst. While I am relatively new the area, I feel like we are few years away from seeing a real boom in downtown/midtown development, even more so than we have seen in the last few years. I try to be cautiously optimistic, but from what I am seeing from current efforts, it's hard not to be excited for what is to come for urban Omaha.