What's missing in Downtown?

[bigredmed1]

A Transit Hub? Yes at this point that would largely be a bus hub. Thinking into the future...streetcars?(perhaps in our lifetime), airport accessibility?...there's already train line that runs from the Amtrak station right past the zoo?(a zoo that has rivaled and beat Disney parks in attendance) Ingenuity city "leaders"/ urban planers? I'm all for the Harney/Farnam Street car proposal, but I also like the 10th St North/South line proposal too. It would certainly buttress the Old Market.

The 10th street north south route was planned by Hal Daub. Don’t know what killed it. It would be a great way to tie downtown and the zoo together as would it tie the Hispanic areas in and make it easier to visit from other parts of the city. I think 13th street would be better than 10th street.

Agreed on 13th Street being a better route for a streetcar with a direct connection between downtown and the Zoo and now we have a resurging Little Bohemia and Vinton Street District to fill in the gaps.

It would be cheaper to build an ORBT line that connects to the downtown end of the Dodge st ORBT line.

[nebport5]

Yes, of course a bus would be cheaper. I think the whole idea with the north/south line along 10th St revolves around tourism and connecting the two biggest attractions in the state and ultimately the airport. In that regard I think streetcars add to that element. I understand the desire to include 13th St but it would be the costlier option over 10th as it pertains to streetcars. Also were talking about a three block walk from 10th to thirteenth.

[Busguy2010]

It would be cheaper to build an ORBT line that connects to the downtown end of the Dodge st ORBT line.

Even cheaper yet, just keep Route 13 on 15 minute frequency as is.

[Busguy2010]

I think a streetcar connection between the zoo and Downtown would definitely be a possibility. If it were to happen, it would be on 10th. 13th is a major truck route, and is too fast moving.

That said, I think talk of a 10th street streetcar disappeared because it really wouldn't serve many people of the city. If we are to make the investment, the Farnam route really is the clear choice for the first route.

[bigredmed1]

It would be cheaper to build an ORBT line that connects to the downtown end of the Dodge st ORBT line.

Even cheaper yet, just keep Route 13 on 15 minute frequency as is.

Sure. Make the route 13 bus themed and attractive so visitors would see them in downtown. A zoo theme paint job for example.

[PWL73316]

10th street isn't completely dead between the OM and the Zoo, although it's definitely sparse. That said, I think a dedicated effort to get ridership on that route that actually got used could spur a LOT of investment in that short corridor. It's under 2 miles from the OM to the Zoo, and Cascio's is close to the middle. You could really get some uptake on that corridor, like they are trying in fits and starts to do on 13th street. Then, both would help each other, too.

[ita]

Why is a vibrant downtown important for Omaha?

Cindy Gonzalez
Hubs of commerce, housing, offices and entertainment are growing across Omaha and its suburbs.

One need only take a drive along the Dodge Street corridor to catch a glimpse. There's the new Crossroads under construction at 72nd Street. Farther west, the developing 500-acre Heartwood Preserve, West Dodge Pointe, West Village Pointe and the emerging Fountain Ridge and Avenue One office parks.

And that's just a sliver.

Given such increasing and thriving activity outside Omaha's urban core, one might ask: Why is it so important to have a vibrant downtown anyway?

I don't if it was intentional, but people that Cindy quoted giving reasons why we need a vibrant downtown are all private business people or developers. Would have liked to see someone from the City giving their insight. That's neither here or there. The reasons given have already been discussed here (soul of the city, center of tourism and corporate business, historical significance to the region, ability to affect growth to areas near downtown like North 24th Street district, Millwork, Little Italy/Bohemia, etc.), but it's reassuring to see that some movers of the City from the private sector understand why our downtown needs to improve.

I keep bringing the group up, but the Chamber's urban core committee was brought up again:

Noddle said that a Chamber of Commerce urban core committee, which he is leading, is working on strategies to improve public transportation and to create incentives to spark affordable housing and other development so Omaha's downtown can compete with peer cities.

What exactly are they doing? Who is a part of this group? I am glad they are working on important issues like public transportation and affordable housing, but what exactly are they envisioning for our downtown? I am not being critical, rather I am just curious. I am glad they are focusing on how to improve downtown and that there is tangible evidence that developers and business people care about in the form of recent and current developments.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Why is a vibrant downtown important for Omaha?

Cindy Gonzalez
Hubs of commerce, housing, offices and entertainment are growing across Omaha and its suburbs.

One need only take a drive along the Dodge Street corridor to catch a glimpse. There's the new Crossroads under construction at 72nd Street. Farther west, the developing 500-acre Heartwood Preserve, West Dodge Pointe, West Village Pointe and the emerging Fountain Ridge and Avenue One office parks.

And that's just a sliver.

Given such increasing and thriving activity outside Omaha's urban core, one might ask: Why is it so important to have a vibrant downtown anyway?

I don't if it was intentional, but people that Cindy quoted giving reasons why we need a vibrant downtown are all private business people or developers. Would have liked to see someone from the City giving their insight. That's neither here or there. The reasons given have already been discussed here (soul of the city, center of tourism and corporate business, historical significance to the region, ability to affect growth to areas near downtown like North 24th Street district, Millwork, Little Italy/Bohemia, etc.), but it's reassuring to see that some movers of the City from the private sector understand why our downtown needs to improve.

I keep bringing the group up, but the Chamber's urban core committee was brought up again:

Noddle said that a Chamber of Commerce urban core committee, which he is leading, is working on strategies to improve public transportation and to create incentives to spark affordable housing and other development so Omaha's downtown can compete with peer cities.

What exactly are they doing? Who is a part of this group? I am glad they are working on important issues like public transportation and affordable housing, but what exactly are they envisioning for our downtown? I am not being critical, rather I am just curious. I am glad they are focusing on how to improve downtown and that there is tangible evidence that developers and business people care about in the form of recent and current developments.

Intentional? Likely not. Reality? Likely yes. Many have heard me mention this numerous times on the forum- development projects are happening all over the city from its western suburban fringe, all the way to the downtown core- despite nondescript, questionable leadership at City Hall. Why? Because fortunately for Omaha, we have a generous philanthropist community and private business/development community which has vision, financial resources and is bullish in their plans to make Omaha a better and more vibrant city and metropolitan area..

Regarding this “Urban Core Committee” we’ve been reading about for nearly 2 years now- all we’ve heard is fluff..nothing substantial “meat and potatoes”.. That said, because Jay Noddle is said to be heading this committee, I tend to give it more of a pass for now. Simply based upon Noddle’s track record of development project success in our community. Projects he’s been involved with typically get seen through to completion and in a timely manner.. So we’ll see if they’ll provide a visionary focused plan and timetable highlighting the specifics of exactly what they hope to accomplish..

On balance, this was a pretty good piece in the W-H today…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Bob from Omaha]

Downtown Detroit has done a complete 180 since we moved here in 2008. That year I was at a Tiger game downtown with my brother in law, a real estate broker who has lived here his whole life. I said I was impressed with the view of all the skyscrapers downtown. He said "Want to buy them? They're all vacant" Fast forward to now. Buildings rehabbed, full of tenants, both residential & office, retail, restaurants, etc.
So what drove all the billions of investment? Yes, I said BILLIONS. Lots of them. Dan Gilbert of Quicken Loans, the Illitch family from Little Caesars, the Red Wings & the Tigers mainly. They had the passion & money to do it and the desire. Gilbert moved his company downtown, bringing thousands of mostly young workers downtown. He now owns hundreds of buildings. The Illitches moved Little Caesars headquarters downtown. Gilbert also convinced Blue Cross to move downtown.

My point is that one reason downtown Omaha hasn't seen growth downtown is that there isn't anyone other than First National & UP and Kiewit who has anything close to an interest or ego or cash to move downtown. All those single use buildings and complexes out west are good because they didn't leave town. On the other hand, Pacific Life? HDR? Others I can't think of or don't know. They were perfect candidates to move downtown.

You can offer all the incentives you want but without the ego or desire or for that matter willingness to spend more to move downtown you just aren't going to get growth there.

Another thing. It helps to have employees who genuinely want to work downtown, even without the ocean of parking lots.

Just my opinion.

[Omaha Cowboy]

It’s great that Kiewit decided to move into the core in north downtown. Sure there have been some losses- mainly the HDR debacle from 2016..

But- there have been several Omaha Tech companies-Flywheel for example, which have recently committed significantly to the downtown core..and it’s like the chicken and the egg- The hope is, as the 3 phased Riverfront Redevelopment plan pushes closer to its eventual 2024 completion, that more businesses will be attracted to the improved amenities and livability of downtown..and choose to hang a shingle..

I’d expect to see more growth in business/commerce within the downtown Omaha core in the next 3-5 years..maybe sooner if we’re lucky…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[NEDodger]

Downtown Detroit has done a complete 180 since we moved here in 2008. That year I was at a Tiger game downtown with my brother in law, a real estate broker who has lived here his whole life. I said I was impressed with the view of all the skyscrapers downtown. He said "Want to buy them? They're all vacant" Fast forward to now. Buildings rehabbed, full of tenants, both residential & office, retail, restaurants, etc.
So what drove all the billions of investment? Yes, I said BILLIONS. Lots of them. Dan Gilbert of Quicken Loans, the Illitch family from Little Caesars, the Red Wings & the Tigers mainly. They had the passion & money to do it and the desire. Gilbert moved his company downtown, bringing thousands of mostly young workers downtown. He now owns hundreds of buildings. The Illitches moved Little Caesars headquarters downtown. Gilbert also convinced Blue Cross to move downtown.

My point is that one reason downtown Omaha hasn't seen growth downtown is that there isn't anyone other than First National & UP and Kiewit who has anything close to an interest or ego or cash to move downtown. All those single use buildings and complexes out west are good because they didn't leave town. On the other hand, Pacific Life? HDR? Others I can't think of or don't know. They were perfect candidates to move downtown.

You can offer all the incentives you want but without the ego or desire or for that matter willingness to spend more to move downtown you just aren't going to get growth there.

Another thing. It helps to have employees who genuinely want to work downtown, even without the ocean of parking lots.

Just my opinion.

Bingo. And that happened despite Detroit having horrific leadership for 60 years.

It will always be business-driven. Companies don't want to move downtown because of cost? Good luck getting them downtown. Companies don't want to move downtown because employees don't want the commute? Good luck getting them downtown.

Some seem to think that magic powers from City Hall will force companies downtown. Or complain when "everything was given up!" to keep/move them there.

[bigredmed1]

And those that believe in the magic power of government will blame the chief magician if it fails.

Detroit has a lot of geographic reasons to use their downtown. Omaha has a lot of them to not. Overcoming these reasons by some rich guy wanting to force employees to drag |expletive| all the way downtown is not a good plan. Especially in a time where people have got used to telecommuting and are actually quitting jobs to stay in that world.

One doesn’t stay rich blowing a lot of money on downtown office monuments only to have to bargain with your staff saying, “I have a gig of fiber internet, a good desk, computer, and a commute measured in feet, I am good, unless you can sweeten the deal to cover all the fixed costs for working there instead of here”.

[ita]

Detroit has a lot of geographic reasons to use their downtown. Omaha has a lot of them to not.

Can you expound on this? I am not familiar with Detroit. Just looking at the map it looks like sprawl occurred away from downtown and that it is like Omaha where downtown is not centered in the sprawl. I know others have said that is a detriment to downtown vibrancy. Are you talking about actual geography like Detroit's downtown being on a channel that feeds into the great lakes?

[bigredmed1]

The whole stretch along the St. Clair (sp?) river is the Gross Point communities. They are separate cities. Pretty much as if Millard, Boystown, Elkhorn, and Bennington were all separate and linked at their borders. Omaha couldn’t grow to the west farther than Boystown. There would be more reason to stay downtown.

[Busguy2010]

The whole stretch along the St. Clair (sp?) river is the Gross Point communities. They are separate cities. Pretty much as if Millard, Boystown, Elkhorn, and Bennington were all separate and linked at their borders. Omaha couldn’t grow to the west farther than Boystown. There would be more reason to stay downtown.

I don't know if Omaha having limited continuity has to do with it. I think I recall Omaha is pretty high up there in land area and population relative to a lot of center cities of metro areas larger than Omaha. And a lot of larger Metro areas are more of a conglomerate of smaller municipalities, moreso than Omaha. I do like the theory that Downtown is on one end of town causing it to be a long distance for most people, but only as a contributing factor. I think if North Omaha, South Omaha, and C.B. had more pull, Downtown could benefit. Although I personally like how those areas are low-key, what most people consider the "livable area" doesn't start until Dundee. So basically, for lack of a better term, Downtown is surrounded by the ghetto. Not that Detroit and other cities don't have that problem, too.

[Doctor Fate]

What are the biggest things that stunt Councul Bluffs' growth? If there were more growth on that side, it might help downtown Omaha's attractiveness.

[Busguy2010]

What are the biggest things that stunt Councul Bluffs' growth? If there were more growth on that side, it might help downtown Omaha's attractiveness.

My guess is that it was settled upon the edge of the river flood plain. Most of what is C.B. now is in a flood plain. Controlled now, but if it werent for the control, it wouldnt be there. The original CB is basically up east of the ridge line which is pretty much East Broadway, which is where the original downtown and the surrounding settlements are. The most beautiful 1800s buildings and homes in the metro or even the region are there around East Broadway. But I think the city was really limited by the flood plain to the west and the sharp terrain to the east. I don't know if that affects the current state of CB, but it seems likely to me.

I admire the current push to match Omahas riverfront and try to bring a more urban environment closer to Omaha, but they've already dealt with flooding there at Rivers Edge two, three times.

[Omaha Cowboy]

A really detailed piece in the W-H chronicling how the ConAgra CEO Mike Harper strong-armed his way to getting his downtown campus built and destroying the historic Jobbers canyon district in the process. It also highlights city/state leaders and businesses leaders, out of fear, caving to Harper’s desire and getting LB 775 passed..which then created the path for the JC demolition and ConAgra’s downtown campus. Ironically, as we all know, ConAgra ended up bailing on Omaha some 26 years later moving its HQ’s into a histrionic district in Chicago.. The light at the end of the tunnel today, is Omaha has the ability to course correct that debacle from the late 1980’s..Here are some highlights from the W-H article-

“Big ugly red brick buildings.

When Conagra's chief executive dismissed a historic Omaha warehouse district as such, he ignited preservation rallies, local division and a national spotlight. But none of that could stop demolition of the six-block Jobbers Canyon to clear the way for the company's global headquarters.

Charles "Mike" Harper would say later that only a handful of people wanted to preserve the century-old warehouses — "probably as a home for the rats."

Indeed, tension over the largest-ever wipeout of a designated U.S. historic district grew much larger. Arguably, no other local real estate project in the last half-century created more community conflict and change in landscape and policy than the Conagra-anchored riverfront development.

Omaha already was reeling from a series of unrelated misfortunes when Harper made it known that Nebraska was not a shoo-in for the company's new worldwide headquarters.

Enron in 1986 had just relocated its national headquarters to Houston, taking with it an eventual 2,000 well-paying jobs and long history of civic contributions.

Meanwhile, farmers across the state were in crisis. Banks were failing. Omaha's mayor was being ousted in a recall election. People were worried about job security, said former State Sen. Vard Johnson.

“You could cut the anxiety with a knife,” Johnson said.

As then-Omaha Planning Director Marty Shukert recalled, a city team met on Conagra's turf to present what he thought was a slam dunk design for a new downtown headquarters. The plan featured a glassy corporate high-rise and other new facilities near the Missouri River. It would have saved much of Jobbers Canyon, so named for its dense corridor of buildings for wholesalers, or jobbers. The district had just earned national historic status.

Instead, Harper balked at sharing a site with what he considered unsightly warehouses that he thought would wall off the company from the rest of downtown.“

The complete W-H story link:

https://omaha.com/business/local/big-bu ... -top-story

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Garrett]

What are the biggest things that stunt Councul Bluffs' growth? If there were more growth on that side, it might help downtown Omaha's attractiveness.

My guess is that it was settled upon the edge of the river flood plain. Most of what is C.B. now is in a flood plain. Controlled now, but if it werent for the control, it wouldnt be there. The original CB is basically up east of the ridge line which is pretty much East Broadway, which is where the original downtown and the surrounding settlements are. The most beautiful 1800s buildings and homes in the metro or even the region are there around East Broadway. But I think the city was really limited by the flood plain to the west and the sharp terrain to the east. I don't know if that affects the current state of CB, but it seems likely to me.

I admire the current push to match Omahas riverfront and try to bring a more urban environment closer to Omaha, but they've already dealt with flooding there at Rivers Edge two, three times.

Expanding on that, cross state metro areas are almost always lopsided to one state. Even in Texarkana TX/AR, which is only separated by a straight line border, has two times as many people on the Texas side.