Mutual of Omaha Tower (14th & Farnam)

[Fort Calhoun]

A great location for a mid-rise residential building would be the site of the state office building. The building is not very attractive. The state offices could move to a new building on the civic auditorium site, along with a new downtown library. A new fire station and police headquarters could also be built on the civic site

[Louie]

A great location for a mid-rise residential building would be the site of the state office building. The building is not very attractive. The state offices could move to a new building on the civic auditorium site, along with a new downtown library. A new fire station and police headquarters could also be built on the civic site

What? That building is a gorgeous artistic expression of what a brick would look like from an ant's perspective.

[PWL73316]

I hate that office building aesthetically, I just didn't know if moving everyone out and replacing it with residential is a remotely realistic option.

[ita]

A great location for a mid-rise residential building would be the site of the state office building. The building is not very attractive. The state offices could move to a new building on the civic auditorium site, along with a new downtown library. A new fire station and police headquarters could also be built on the civic site

What? That building is a gorgeous artistic expression of what a brick would look like from an ant's perspective.

Well, when you put it that way...it still needs to go. Haha. I do like the idea of incorporation civic uses especially if that means moving state employees from the current downtown building to allow redevelopment of that site.

[Omaha Cowboy]

This is all coming together folks..

Within the next several months (probably December/January) we’ll get the detail the “Cryptic Rumor Department” dropped my way a couple of weeks back..

Stay tuned …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Omaha Cowboy]

That is going to be an iconic piece of Omaha's look.

It certainly will be..

This is city and metropolitan area on the move..Grew by nearly 103,000 from 2010 to 2020..and I believe poised for its biggest growth decade in 70 years..

For a laugh, go to the Omaha sub Reddit page- there is a thread there with dilweed’s bashing on Omaha, that it’s hemorrhaging youth, lacking “cool” tech jobs and other nonsensical BS..if you call any of these negative nelly’s out and ask for proof of their assertions, they run for cover like a band of cockroaches once you flick the lights on in a Burger King kitchen.. Here’s the thread link if you want to roll your eyes and laugh your a$$ off-



These people have no clue.. It’s pathetic and comical at the same time ..

Onto real growth and future developments for the Big O…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Erik]

Some seek out unity in shared misery. There is a reason we are warned on who we choose to surround ourselves with.

[Athomsfere]

That is going to be an iconic piece of Omaha's look.

It certainly will be..

This is city and metropolitan area on the move..Grew by nearly 103,000 from 2010 to 2020..and I believe poised for its biggest growth decade in 70 years..

For a laugh, go to the Omaha sub Reddit page- there is a thread there with dilweed’s bashing on Omaha, that it’s hemorrhaging youth, lacking “cool” tech jobs and other nonsensical BS..if you call any of these negative nelly’s out and ask for proof of their assertions, they run for cover like a band of cockroaches once you flick the lights on in a Burger King kitchen.. Here’s the thread link if you want to roll your eyes and laugh your a$$ off-



These people have no clue.. It’s pathetic and comical at the same time ..

Onto real growth and future developments for the Big O…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

There is an air of truth to most of that thread, and Omaha really needs to pay attention though. Missing good mass transit now will hurt Omaha for decades much like it's sucked a lot of the life out of Austin.

Some of it, Omaha can't fix. The rolling hills don't produce cliffs and spring fed rivers for example. But travelling from Omaha is generally very, very easy.

[ita]

That is going to be an iconic piece of Omaha's look.

It certainly will be..

This is city and metropolitan area on the move..Grew by nearly 103,000 from 2010 to 2020..and I believe poised for its biggest growth decade in 70 years..

For a laugh, go to the Omaha sub Reddit page- there is a thread there with dilweed’s bashing on Omaha, that it’s hemorrhaging youth, lacking “cool” tech jobs and other nonsensical BS..if you call any of these negative nelly’s out and ask for proof of their assertions, they run for cover like a band of cockroaches once you flick the lights on in a Burger King kitchen.. Here’s the thread link if you want to roll your eyes and laugh your a$$ off-



These people have no clue.. It’s pathetic and comical at the same time ..

Onto real growth and future developments for the Big O…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

There is an air of truth to most of that thread, and Omaha really needs to pay attention though. Missing good mass transit now will hurt Omaha for decades much like it's sucked a lot of the life out of Austin.

Some of it, Omaha can't fix. The rolling hills don't produce cliffs and spring fed rivers for example. But travelling from Omaha is generally very, very easy.

That is definitely one of my biggest concerns as the City, particularly the core, continues to grow. If city stakeholders and leaders are serious about urban growth, we need to improve public transit. I am of the opinion that it doesn't necessarily need to be rail, but rather more comprehensive and consistent bus service. I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of rail project, but the bus system has been so underfunded that we just haven't seen what the potential of a well run bus system can do for the City.

Anyway, the other issue is that we are steadily being average in terms of cost of living (which doesn't usually include taxes, at least from what I've seen; so for property owners especially, we are probably closer to the national average than most indexes reflect). Relatedly, employers can't continue to boast cost of living to justify uncompetitive wages, especially in high demand industries. We are currently riding on historical reputation when it comes to cost of living, rather than actually being more affordable than other cities that we might compete with. That will catch up with us.

[Athomsfere]

There is an air of truth to most of that thread, and Omaha really needs to pay attention though. Missing good mass transit now will hurt Omaha for decades much like it's sucked a lot of the life out of Austin.

Some of it, Omaha can't fix. The rolling hills don't produce cliffs and spring fed rivers for example. But travelling from Omaha is generally very, very easy.

That is definitely one of my biggest concerns as the City, particularly the core, continues to grow. If city stakeholders and leaders are serious about urban growth, we need to improve public transit. I am of the opinion that it doesn't necessarily need to be rail, but rather more comprehensive and consistent bus service. I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of rail project, but the bus system has been so underfunded that we just haven't seen what the potential of a well run bus system can do for the City.

Anyway, the other issue is that we are steadily being average in terms of cost of living (which doesn't usually include taxes, at least from what I've seen; so for property owners especially, we are probably closer to the national average than most indexes reflect). Relatedly, employers can't continue to boast cost of living to justify uncompetitive wages.

I personally keep pushing for rail, because of the efficiencies it does create. IMO light rail in the core would be the perfect 1st step, and then filling in and fixing the bus routes to complement the light rail.

BY my counts, we are on the cusp of LR making sense for much of the core. If the expectations of some of the census tracts doubling in 10 years in true then our choices are basically A) Start now, and get the first riders just in time to prevent real pain later B) Wish we had started before our streets are packed to the teeth.

I do also think that if we were to do this now, we would see the density grow very quickly. A lot of our peer cities would be jealous of the cosmopolitan feel of little Omaha's core.

[NEDodger]

BY my counts, we are on the cusp of LR making sense for much of the core.

Based on what?

1.) Traffic in downtown not really being that bad, aside for like 30 minutes a day?
2.) Buses often being mostly empty?
3.) The transition to more and more people working from home?


I'd say the indicators point to the opposite.... . We don't have a large enough population to support something like this.

[Athomsfere]

BY my counts, we are on the cusp of LR making sense for much of the core.

Based on what?

1.) Traffic in downtown not really being that bad, aside for like 30 minutes a day?
2.) Buses often being mostly empty?
3.) The transition to more and more people working from home?


I'd say the indicators point to the opposite.... . We don't have a large enough population to support something like this.

Based on we have limited scope for lanes we can add, and they don't actually help anyway.

That good city planning isn't reactive: Waiting until the problem is already here and dire.

We are over the ~30 people per hecta acre for transit to work at all. From there, it's up to planning to get the best transit working. Of course Omaha doesn't currently work for a train, we built the city backwards for the car.

[Garrett]

BY my counts, we are on the cusp of LR making sense for much of the core.

Based on what?

1.) Traffic in downtown not really being that bad, aside for like 30 minutes a day?
2.) Buses often being mostly empty?
3.) The transition to more and more people working from home?


I'd say the indicators point to the opposite.... . We don't have a large enough population to support something like this.

It’s city planning, not city reacting. You wouldn’t be saying that for every single lane addition they do at 204th and whatever. Downtown is growing just as fast as many suburbs. Transit is also not about population, it’s about density, and our urban areas are becoming more dense. Rail transit will help that along. Viewing transit as solel6 a means to get to work is also erroneous. I use transit to go out, get groceries sometimes, and generally just do a lot of my daily tasks in the city. The most common example of streetcar we see would allow someone living in Blackstone to get to the CWS or a concert, or go to dinner in the old market, or people downtown to go to checkups at UNMC.

[Omaha Cowboy]

That is going to be an iconic piece of Omaha's look.

It certainly will be..

This is city and metropolitan area on the move..Grew by nearly 103,000 from 2010 to 2020..and I believe poised for its biggest growth decade in 70 years..

For a laugh, go to the Omaha sub Reddit page- there is a thread there with dilweed’s bashing on Omaha, that it’s hemorrhaging youth, lacking “cool” tech jobs and other nonsensical BS..if you call any of these negative nelly’s out and ask for proof of their assertions, they run for cover like a band of cockroaches once you flick the lights on in a Burger King kitchen.. Here’s the thread link if you want to roll your eyes and laugh your a$$ off-



These people have no clue.. It’s pathetic and comical at the same time ..

Onto real growth and future developments for the Big O…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

There is an air of truth to most of that thread, and Omaha really needs to pay attention though.

Most of it? It’d say a smidge of that thread contains an air of truth.. Most of it is old fashioned, uninformed Omaha bashing by people who either have no clue, or just don’t care and want to “get the he!! out of Omaha”..

The commentary has basically zero dialog bathed in fact, and belies what our own eye test can see.. The Omaha Reddit page is awash with uninformed Omaha bashers who will never be content..most will never leave and thus become a stodgy part of the anti development crowd once they get older..

I think it’s comical, when people insinuate in that thread Omaha has no “cool jobs” (umm huh?) hemorrhaging youth (I don’t think so) and is boring with no entertainment options (utter nonsense)..

I’ll give the small minority who reference property taxes and alternative transportation..but that’s about it…

Other than that, it’s uninformed nonsense…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[ricko]

You can go to any forum, anywhere, and find people kvetching about their current city's shortcomings. For the most part, it's B.S., but there might be a bit of truth in what's being said. I've met two interracial couples who used to live in Omaha and had since moved to the DC area, and they felt unwelcome in Omaha and couldn't wait to get out. Were their feelings valid? Dunno. As a gay person, leaving Omaha was a no brainer in the 70's. It was downright dangerous to be "out" in Omaha back then. In DC it wasn't an issue, for the most part. I know things have changed for the better since then, but if I consider my Omaha (rather large) extended family's attitudes about racial and sexuality issues, and extrapolate that to the entire population of Omaha, I'd say there are still some attitudes that need to change before I'd be completely comfortable living in Omaha full time. The conservative Catholic wing of my family can be just as intolerant as any conservative evangelical. Do attitudes like that exist where I live now? Sure, but they don't run the show, and they have very little, if any, influence on the body politic. No place is perfect, and some of you might be a bit angry at my assessment, but these issues don't affect the overwhelming majority of you who don't have to deal with the petty slights that some of us have to deal with on a regular basis. Omaha has been amazing at transforming itself with all that's being built; it's an exciting thing to see. I just hope that it is able to attract the talent it needs to thrive, and keep that talent here; not just as a stepping stone on the way to somewhere else. Keep in mind that the local zeitgeist/vibe/culture, whatever you want to call it, can't attract and keep the talent it wants while the governor projects his backward culture-warrior politics on the national stage----the Millenials might just take a pass on Nebraska; it wouldn't surprise me. If you think Ricketts is bad, wait till Herbster takes over.

I know this post would probably fit better in the "brain drain" thread, but I got long-winded while responding to Cowboy's post

[NEDodger]

BY my counts, we are on the cusp of LR making sense for much of the core.

Based on what?

1.) Traffic in downtown not really being that bad, aside for like 30 minutes a day?
2.) Buses often being mostly empty?
3.) The transition to more and more people working from home?


I'd say the indicators point to the opposite.... . We don't have a large enough population to support something like this.

It’s city planning, not city reacting. You wouldn’t be saying that for every single lane addition they do at 204th and whatever. Downtown is growing just as fast as many suburbs. Transit is also not about population, it’s about density, and our urban areas are becoming more dense. Rail transit will help that along. Viewing transit as solel6 a means to get to work is also erroneous. I use transit to go out, get groceries sometimes, and generally just do a lot of my daily tasks in the city. The most common example of streetcar we see would allow someone living in Blackstone to get to the CWS or a concert, or go to dinner in the old market, or people downtown to go to checkups at UNMC.

But that takes you to my second point. I get that it's not simply about going to work - but the problem is that there already multiple bus routes that can take you pretty much anywhere in the urban core.....and those aren't being used. People have access to mass transit in the core, and if it's not used.....what makes anyone think that mass transit will be used after dropping ~300 million on light rail?

"You wouldn’t be saying that for every single lane addition they do at 204th and whatever." But here's the difference - it's being used. I can understand paying for something if there's usage. Mostly empty buses is not going to equate to heavily used light rail.

[Athomsfere]

BY my counts, we are on the cusp of LR making sense for much of the core.

Based on what?

1.) Traffic in downtown not really being that bad, aside for like 30 minutes a day?
2.) Buses often being mostly empty?
3.) The transition to more and more people working from home?


I'd say the indicators point to the opposite.... . We don't have a large enough population to support something like this.

It’s city planning, not city reacting. You wouldn’t be saying that for every single lane addition they do at 204th and whatever. Downtown is growing just as fast as many suburbs. Transit is also not about population, it’s about density, and our urban areas are becoming more dense. Rail transit will help that along. Viewing transit as solel6 a means to get to work is also erroneous. I use transit to go out, get groceries sometimes, and generally just do a lot of my daily tasks in the city. The most common example of streetcar we see would allow someone living in Blackstone to get to the CWS or a concert, or go to dinner in the old market, or people downtown to go to checkups at UNMC.

But that takes you to my second point. I get that it's not simply about going to work - but the problem is that there already multiple bus routes that can take you pretty much anywhere in the urban core.....and those aren't being used. People have access to mass transit in the core, and if it's not used.....what makes anyone think that mass transit will be used after dropping ~300 million on light rail?

"You wouldn’t be saying that for every single lane addition they do at 204th and whatever." But here's the difference - it's being used. I can understand paying for something if there's usage. Mostly empty buses is not going to equate to heavily used light rail.

But everything I have heard of the old busses - They sucked. ORBT is a huge step forward. And for me, someone who travels often to only cities with good mass transit: Having that light rail adds a huge sense of trust in the transit system. Cities who have invested in rail, AND brt tend to be predictable, reliable and intuitive for the places people want to go. It will take some time for adoption of even the ORBT.

And we aren't building (hopefully) light rail for today. For in ~2080 when Omaha itself is sitting around 1 million people (assuming 15% growth per decade continues)

I know we aren't going to agree today, and this isn't the right thread. So I'll stop here.

To the air of truth with Omaha though:

My circles of friends are in large of the $100k+, could work anywhere in the country for the same or better money. The consensus is Omaha is good at a lot of things, but not great. Blackstone, the OM, Benson, Aksarben etc. are all great places to spend an evening. But Ricketts for example is a problem, many of them want recreational pot, I've heard the gay scene is merely OK for a city this size, more progressive zoning for everything from food trucks, bicycles, eliminating R1 etc. are all problems.

So while if the only data points are Omaha in the 70's, and Omaha now then I'm sure Omaha looks amazing. It's just not a truly great livable city yet. For me, I plan to continue investing in Omaha (or maybe rather start), but I'm not convinced I can keep living here indefinitely.

[ita]

But that takes you to my second point. I get that it's not simply about going to work - but the problem is that there already multiple bus routes that can take you pretty much anywhere in the urban core.....and those aren't being used. People have access to mass transit in the core, and if it's not used.....what makes anyone think that mass transit will be used after dropping ~300 million on light rail?

"You wouldn’t be saying that for every single lane addition they do at 204th and whatever." But here's the difference - it's being used. I can understand paying for something if there's usage. Mostly empty buses is not going to equate to heavily used light rail.

One of the issues of the bus system and public transit in general in Omaha is that we spend a lot less per capita than almost every major city in the US. The shows in several ways, including lack of infrastructure, headways and the number of routes. If you just drive around, a lot of bus stops, even on more well used routes still don't have a bench, even more aren't covered. This does not make bus riding comfortable or dignified. There are many routes that have headways that are like an hour apart. That does not make riding transit convenient at all. If you look at the service map, even in urban Omaha, there are huge gaps in service. So, yeah, people aren't going to ride the bus in light of our system's shortcomings. I am of the opinion that OMetro does it's best with what is allotted them, but service is poor in many ways because we have underfunded public transit. I am hoping they are able to form a regional transit entity with more autonomy in setting their tax levy. I like the current CEO at OMetro and feel confident that they will be good stewards of their funding.

A note of those one lane extensions. Those cost a ridiculous amount of money. Partially, I think its the insistence on the use of medians and increased lane widths, which translates to more construction costs and faster speeds. Some may argue regarding the latter that's the point. But those arteries being widened serve residential subdivisions and parks. What ends up happening is people feel safer to speed. You kill any possibility of multi-modal transportation because those roads become less safe for pedestrians or bicycles. One of the best examples of this is Industrial/Center by Bob Boozer. That is essentially a drag racing strip. Maybe that shouldn't be a concern, but we continue to make decisions spending $20 million on a mile long road or intersection widening that will need yearly pot hole repairs and total repaving in 20 years (or less) all while making our city more and more dependent on car travel. We spend money on these types of projects even when there is only potential demand, but don't do the same for multi-modal projects. If we do, the City spends maybe a couple million versus the tens of millions it spends on road widening projects. I personally think we need to rethink about how we develop our transportation infrastructure and how we spend money on these projects, even if you can justify them by saying "but they are being used."

Sorry for the thought dump and deviation from the main topic of this thread.

[Athomsfere]

But that takes you to my second point. I get that it's not simply about going to work - but the problem is that there already multiple bus routes that can take you pretty much anywhere in the urban core.....and those aren't being used. People have access to mass transit in the core, and if it's not used.....what makes anyone think that mass transit will be used after dropping ~300 million on light rail?

"You wouldn’t be saying that for every single lane addition they do at 204th and whatever." But here's the difference - it's being used. I can understand paying for something if there's usage. Mostly empty buses is not going to equate to heavily used light rail.

One of the issues of the bus system and public transit in general in Omaha is that we spend a lot less per capita than almost every major city in the US. The shows in several ways, including lack of infrastructure, headways and the number of routes. If you just drive around, a lot of bus stops, even on more well used routes still don't have a bus, even more aren't covered. This does not make bus riding comfortable or dignified. There are many routes that have headways that are like an hour apart. That does not make riding transit convenient at all. If you look at the service map, even in urban Omaha, there are huge gaps in service. So, yeah, people aren't going to ride the bus in light of our system's shortcomings. I am of the opinion that OMetro does it's best with what is allotted them, but service is poor in many ways because we have underfunded public transit. I am hoping they are able to form a regional transit entity with more autonomy in setting their tax levy. I like the current CEO at OMetro and feel confident that they will be good stewards of their funding.

A note of those one lane extensions. Those cost a ridiculous amount of money. Partially, I think its the insistence on the use of medians and increased lane widths, which translates to more construction costs and faster speeds. Some may argue regarding the latter that's the point. But those arteries being widened serve residential subdivisions and parks. What ends up happening is people feel safer to speed. You kill any possibility of multi-modal transportation because those roads become less safe for pedestrians or bicycles. One of the best examples of this is Industrial/Center by Bob Boozer. That is essentially a drag racing strip. Maybe that shouldn't be a concern, but we continue to make decisions spending $20 million on a mile long road or intersection widening that will need yearly pot hole repairs and total repaving in 20 years (or less) all while making our city more and more dependent on car travel. We spend money on these types of projects even when there is only potential demand, but don't do the same for multi-modal projects. If we do, the City spends maybe a couple million versus the tens of millions it spends on road widening projects. I personally think we need to rethink about how we develop our transportation infrastructure and how we spend money on these projects, even if you can justify them by saying "but they are being used."

Sorry for the thought dump and deviation from the main topic of this thread.

You continue to nail most of my points in a much more concise manner. Thanks Ita.

[jheard15]

Omaha's "problem" is unique. Our expansion has always focused on being car friendly. It's going to be hard to go backward. In the past, mass transit systems were born out of necessity. In Chicago, NYC, Boston, etc, all the jobs were downtown. There wasn't enough housing so people kept moving further and further away. But they still HAD to go downtown to work, eat, see shows, etc. Now we're trying to retrofit it as a luxury. The problem in Omaha will always be convenience. I live on 105th and Center. I can be downtown in 15 minutes or Gretna in 15 minutes. It will never make sense for someone to walk/drive 5-10 minutes to a bus/rail hub in order to take a 20-30 minute (with stops it may take longer) trip downtown. Our downtown would need to grow to a point of a) no parking and b) lots and lots of things to do, in order for mass transit to make sense. There needs to be so much going on it's not worth driving. When you factor in $15-20 Uber rides we've got a long way to go.

[buildomaha]

I think the focus has turned to increasing transit in the eastern portion of town, where there are people who don’t want to HAVE to own a car.

[legato9]

Omaha's "problem" is unique. Our expansion has always focused on being car friendly. It's going to be hard to go backward. In the past, mass transit systems were born out of necessity. In Chicago, NYC, Boston, etc, all the jobs were downtown. There wasn't enough housing so people kept moving further and further away. But they still HAD to go downtown to work, eat, see shows, etc. Now we're trying to retrofit it as a luxury. The problem in Omaha will always be convenience. I live on 105th and Center. I can be downtown in 15 minutes or Gretna in 15 minutes. It will never make sense for someone to walk/drive 5-10 minutes to a bus/rail hub in order to take a 20-30 minute (with stops it may take longer) trip downtown. Our downtown would need to grow to a point of a) no parking and b) lots and lots of things to do, in order for mass transit to make sense. There needs to be so much going on it's not worth driving. When you factor in $15-20 Uber rides we've got a long way to go.

Completely agree. Omaha is nothing like any city I’ve been to that has robust mass transit. I’d love a killer tram/metro or even bus system. But it’s not going to happen here for a very, very, very long time. Maybe we’ll have some kind of passable setup for lower-income people, but that’s the absolute best I’d expect.

[Omaha Cowboy]

All I’ll say is, people doubting what the core of Omaha can and will become within the next 5 years..

Are going to be very, VERY surprised…

Ciao..LiO..Peace

[Dundeemaha]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

[ita]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

Very well put. I like your suggestion regarding infill development within the current confines of development. There is a lot of underutilized land everywhere within in the 680 circle and Bellevue/La Vista/Papillion/Ralston north of 370. Unfortunately, and like you said, the incentives are there to build outside of those boundaries out west/south and to build low density, SFH neighborhoods in confined subdivisions. Just last year, Omaha and Sarpy Wastewater Management entered into an agreement to build a new sewer line south of the ridgeline south of 370 connecting to the treatment plant south of Offut. It's a $200+ million infrastructure project, just so development can continue it's march south to the Plate River. Sorry for all the 'souths', but you get the picture.

[Athomsfere]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

Yes! This is basically what I've trying to get at as well.

[GetUrban]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

Yes! This is basically what I've trying to get at as well.

Basically the whole United States became “Car dependent” starting in the 50s and 60s. It started off that families that could afford one or two bought them, then after the national interstate highway system began to be built, it became more of a necessity for travel between the larger cities along the interstate routes. The interstates and beltways contributed to “white flight” to the suburbs for those who wanted avoid the more integrated inner city schools, which is still going on today, nationwide. Touchy subject, I know. But on a positive note, some of the younger generations seem less interested in owning a car, for whatever reason, so they are more open to utilizing other forms of transit, which will help make infill development more likely.

[Cermak]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

Yes! This is basically what I've trying to get at as well.

Basically the whole United States became “Car dependent” starting in the 50s and 60s. It started off that families that could afford one or two bought them, then after the national interstate highway system began to be built, it became more of a necessity for travel between the larger cities along the interstate routes. The interstates and beltways contributed to “white flight” to the suburbs for those who wanted avoid the more integrated inner city schools, which is still going on today, nationwide. Touchy subject, I know. But on a positive note, some of the younger generations seem less interested in owning a car, for whatever reason, so they are more open to utilizing other forms of transit, which will help make infill development more likely.

Agree, Most Americans love our cars. In a city like Omaha it’s much easier to get in your car and go somewhere. But older larger more dense cities like New York or Chicago and even Minneapolis it’s a hassle driving and public transportation is often easier and more convenient than driving. I hate driving in Chicago.

[Garrett]

It only took 20 or so years for our cities to become car dependent. We could easily flip that again if we had the ambition to.

[Omaha Cowboy]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

Yes! This is basically what I've trying to get at as well.

Basically the whole United States became “Car dependent” starting in the 50s and 60s.But on a positive note, some of the younger generations seem less interested in owning a car, for whatever reason, so they are more open to utilizing other forms of transit, which will help make infill development more likely.

And this is why, I believe in the core, there will be a major push for a linear streetcar line running from Saddle Creek Rd to the Riverfront..

Within this core area over the next 5 years, several billion $$ worth of development will be added- along with thousands of new jobs and residents to accompany it..Being proactive now, and having vision to add an alternative form of transportation, is a key to enhance these developments.. For the “lack of density” crowd, Omaha is certainly dense enough- more dense than Kansas City MO and MUCH more dense than Oklahoma City OK..both of which, have rail transportation within their core areas.. He!!, so does much smaller Little Rock AR, but this fact seems to be forgotten by many when these discussions come up..

In any case, prepare to be VERY surprised to see what the core area of Omaha looks like 5 years from now compared to today …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[ByrnesViceVersa]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

Yes! This is basically what I've trying to get at as well.

Basically the whole United States became “Car dependent” starting in the 50s and 60s.But on a positive note, some of the younger generations seem less interested in owning a car, for whatever reason, so they are more open to utilizing other forms of transit, which will help make infill development more likely.

And this is why, I believe in the core, there will be a major push for a linear streetcar line running from Saddle Creek Rd to the Riverfront..

Within this core area over the next 5 years, several billion $$ worth of development will be added- along with thousands of new jobs and residents to accompany it..Being proactive now, and having vision to add an alternative form of transportation, is a key to enhance these developments.. For the “lack of density” crowd, Omaha is certainly dense enough- more dense than Kansas City MO and MUCH more dense than Oklahoma City OK..both of which, have rail transportation within their core areas.. He!!, so does much smaller Little Rock AR, but this fact seems to be forgotten by many when these discussions come up..

In any case, prepare to be VERY surprised to see what the core area of Omaha looks like 5 years from now compared to today …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

I still think it was poor planning on OKC on building a street car

[Omaha Cowboy]

The problem with the line of thinking that "Omaha is car dependent so buses won't work" is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Omaha was a dense city served by an extensive streetcar network. Omaha made the choice to become car dependent. If we throw up our hands and say it's a car dependent city so we should keep spending no more than pennies on transit while spending 1000s on cars and parking we are creating our own destiny.

If we never made west of 132nd street 4 lanes, no one would have built the sprawling subdivisions at 192nd street. If we don't expand the roads past 204th street we won't be talking about the new office parks and subdivisions at 252nd street in 10 years.

In the last 15-20 years we've rebalanced some and seen significant infill and growth in the older parts of Omaha. We can continue that progress by increasing investment not just downtown, or east of 72nd but encouraging dense infill out to 680, down to Bellevue and Papillion that could create the environment for transit to succeed. We just need to flip the subsidies from cars and parking to transit, walking and biking and eliminate parking minimums and single family zoning.

Yes! This is basically what I've trying to get at as well.

Basically the whole United States became “Car dependent” starting in the 50s and 60s.But on a positive note, some of the younger generations seem less interested in owning a car, for whatever reason, so they are more open to utilizing other forms of transit, which will help make infill development more likely.

And this is why, I believe in the core, there will be a major push for a linear streetcar line running from Saddle Creek Rd to the Riverfront..

Within this core area over the next 5 years, several billion $$ worth of development will be added- along with thousands of new jobs and residents to accompany it..Being proactive now, and having vision to add an alternative form of transportation, is a key to enhance these developments.. For the “lack of density” crowd, Omaha is certainly dense enough- more dense than Kansas City MO and MUCH more dense than Oklahoma City OK..both of which, have rail transportation within their core areas.. He!!, so does much smaller Little Rock AR, but this fact seems to be forgotten by many when these discussions come up..

In any case, prepare to be VERY surprised to see what the core area of Omaha looks like 5 years from now compared to today …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

I still think it was poor planning on OKC on building a street car

Interesting perspective.. Why do you say that?..

It appears to be a popular option they’re looking to expand in Oklahoma City…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[NEDodger]

We have BRT, which is a streetcar without a permanent rail. It's free. And still no one uses it.

"but this fact seems to be forgotten by many when these discussions come up".

[Omaha Cowboy]

Comparing linear streetcar rail transit to ORBT is completely apples and oranges..does not compute…

And for the record, OBRT is no longer free.. but is seeing a spike in ridership…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[jjjjhskr]

Comparing linear streetcar rail transit to ORBT is completely apples and oranges..does not compute…

And for the record, OBRT is no longer free.. but is seeing a spike in ridership…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

Still free until Oct 1. Get your rides in!

[NEDodger]

Comparing linear streetcar rail transit to ORBT is completely apples and oranges..does not compute…

And for the record, OBRT is no longer free.. but is seeing a spike in ridership…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

Yeah, right. It’s a linear mass transit line that people can use to get to shopping, work, or entertainment.

“Oh, but a streetcar line will make developers lick their lips and promote more high density buildings!”

Yeah, because developers today have no clue that Dodge Street has been and will forever continue to be a major thoroughfare for the city.

But no - apples to oranges. Lololol!

[NEDodger]

And you may want to be more educated about ORBT if you want to discuss the subject - it’s still free.

[Omaha Cowboy]

And you may want to be more educated about ORBT if you want to discuss the subject - it’s still free.

Oh please ..

Free until Oct 1st..and with a nice improvement in ridership..

In any case- Believe what you want about the legitimacy of streetcars for the core..

You’re right about one thing- back to Gene Leahy Mall/Riverfront discussion…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[ita]

Comparing linear streetcar rail transit to ORBT is completely apples and oranges..does not compute…

And for the record, OBRT is no longer free.. but is seeing a spike in ridership…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

Exactly, streetcar vs BRT, too different to compare to one another.

Also, ORBT is purportedly back to average daily ridership for route 2 pre-pandemic. So, yeah, some people are using it. While rides are free, transit everywhere has been hit hard by the pandemic, and we are unfortunately still in it. Additionally, we can't just look at it right now; there are several developments on the horizon that can boost demand for ORBT on Dodge like Crossroads, UNMC NeXT, the residential projects under construction or planned along the corridor, and even Rickett's project, whatever that's going to be. This is a public investment, as such, we need to treat it as such and give it some time to produce returns. Arguably, it already has. Coupled with the changes in the zoning code instituting a TOD district (albeit opt-in) a couple of these projects have already taken advantage of reducing parking in their residential projects. Even if it is a few here and there, developers are paying attention and taking advantage.

I know I am continuing the cross contamination of this thread. I think it's hard to avoid though. None of these projects exist in a vacuum. We can discuss them as such, debating design, functionality, financing, etc. but when we talk about these topics from a larger standpoint like making downtown more livable, how it affects downtown development, or how it improves the city, we are going to talk about adjacent topics.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

We have BRT, which is a streetcar without a permanent rail. It's free. And still no one uses it.

"but this fact seems to be forgotten by many when these discussions come up".

Yeah! And whenever I drive past TD Ameritrade Park there’s never a College World Series going on! It’s just empty and usually covered in snow! What a boondoggle! We should just tear it down and replace it with more parking for the airport.