Louie wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:13 pm
Too bad they didnt call out the new owners shoddy past.
Now this would require some actual investigative journalism.. That ship sailed sometime around the last W-H ownership change and downsizing layoff escapade...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
If there were 100K readers who demanded old-school journalism, they maybe they'd extend the effort to do some digging. But there aren't.
It's chicken/egg--are the media promulgating a narrative, or has the public attention-span and curiousity decreased to the point of irredeemability? You know my stance--it's both.
I think there is enough readers. And if you give them high quality content and raise the bar, they’ll crave it once again. The W-H basically serves the State of Nebraska and half of Iowa. There was a time back 15, 20, 30+ years ago, The Omaha W-H did investigative journalism at a much higher and more frequent level than the simple info pieces we’re used to reading today. When you cut staff and resources, that’s what you get..
It’s not a reader population issue imo.. Raise the bar/standard...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Not anymore. News is online, 24/7, nationalized, and more and more opinion based. It's changing. Unless you're a New York Times level national publication, you're suffering. The OWH is just going through what almost every single print publication is going through. When a significant portion of the population of Nebraska and Iowa are getting their news from Fox News... well...
I still disagree somewhat with what you’re saying here, but certainly not entirely. Because what you’re saying about the direction journalism regionally is going..is true..and it’s unfortunate..
But I’ll still say- Just because the news is on line, does not mean a regional newspaper, for example, cannot continue to provide true, investigative journalism..If they actually committed to providing it- even just once per month..The W-H was never a NY Times level paper in the first place..but go back, 10, 15, 20 and 30 years ago, a mid major level paper like the W-H was providing a more frequent, and a decent level of actual investigative journalism.. But you cut personnel and resources, and you get what we have today- 99% informational only articles and no real in-depth insight. Raise the bar though, and people will still crave it..
I was shocked last summer, the W-H actually had an in depth, investigative journalistic piece regarding the spring/summer unrest in Omaha after the George Floyd death and the shooting death locally during looting of James Scurlock. It was a great piece, well written, well received and a shockingly pleasant surprise. But, that was likely a one off. We’re lucky in Omaha if the W-H provides that type of quality and depth of coverage 2 times a year these days..
Yes, times are changing. But I think people’s desire for quality, in depth local journalism still stands..and if a newspaper is committed to providing it, readers will clamor for more of it. Again, raise the bar.. But cutting staff, resources and lowering the bar- well, you get ground chuck most of the time and people think it’s USDA Prime .. The dumbing down continues...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
As a society, people have decided that news should be free. There are some positives to the free dissemination of information, but overall, we are worse off for it. Take a look at the comments section of any OWH story on facebook and half the comments are essentially, "NO! I will not pay to read this article OWH. I will not subscribe just to get the news. Make it freeee!"
That mentality is the culmination of the digital era where everything is immediate and generally without cost. But, unless you are big enough to monetize enough online ad revenue, you are sacrificing quality. You are having interns write stories that used to be written by real news people. You are parroting articles from wire services. Everything is moving to TV and podcasts that push a political slant and spin. We are becoming dumber and more easily manipulated for it.
There is no such thing as a truly free meal and people don't seem to care what they are digesting from these free news services. At this point, I wouldn't subscribe to OWH either. They don't put much out there that makes it worthwhile, but it's all just a self perpetuating cycle where we are now being wound up by the same few media services.
Louie wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:13 pm
Too bad they didnt call out the new owners shoddy past.
Now this would require some actual investigative journalism.. That ship sailed sometime around the last W-H ownership change and downsizing layoff escapade...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
If there were 100K readers who demanded old-school journalism, they maybe they'd extend the effort to do some digging. But there aren't.
It's chicken/egg--are the media promulgating a narrative, or has the public attention-span and curiousity decreased to the point of irredeemability? You know my stance--it's both.
I think there is enough readers. And if you give them high quality content and raise the bar, they’ll crave it once again. The W-H basically serves the State of Nebraska and half of Iowa. There was a time back 15, 20, 30+ years ago, The Omaha W-H did investigative journalism at a much higher and more frequent level than the simple info pieces we’re used to reading today. When you cut staff and resources, that’s what you get..
It’s not a reader population issue imo.. Raise the bar/standard...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Not anymore. News is online, 24/7, nationalized, and more and more opinion based. It's changing. Unless you're a New York Times level national publication, you're suffering. The OWH is just going through what almost every single print publication is going through. When a significant portion of the population of Nebraska and Iowa are getting their news from Fox News... well...
I still disagree somewhat with what you’re saying here, but certainly not entirely. Because what you’re saying about the direction journalism regionally is going..is true..and it’s unfortunate..
But I’ll still say- Just because the news is on line, does not mean a regional newspaper, for example, cannot continue to provide true, investigative journalism..If they actually committed to providing it- even just once per month..The W-H was never a NY Times level paper in the first place..but go back, 10, 15, 20 and 30 years ago, a mid major level paper like the W-H was providing a more frequent, and a decent level of actual investigative journalism.. But you cut personnel and resources, and you get what we have today- 99% informational only articles and no real in-depth insight. Raise the bar though, and people will still crave it..
I was shocked last summer, the W-H actually had an in depth, investigative journalistic piece regarding the spring/summer unrest in Omaha after the George Floyd death and the shooting death locally during looting of James Scurlock. It was a great piece, well written, well received and a shockingly pleasant surprise. But, that was likely a one off. We’re lucky in Omaha if the W-H provides that type of quality and depth of coverage 2 times a year these days..
Yes, times are changing. But I think people’s desire for quality, in depth local journalism still stands..and if a newspaper is committed to providing it, readers will clamor for more of it. Again, raise the bar.. But cutting staff, resources and lowering the bar- well, you get ground chuck most of the time and people think it’s USDA Prime .. The dumbing down continues...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
As a society, people have decided that news should be free. There are some positives to the free dissemination of information, but overall, we are worse off for it. Take a look at the comments section of any OWH story on facebook and half the comments are essentially, "NO! I will not pay to read this article OWH. I will not subscribe just to get the news. Make it freeee!"
That mentality is the culmination of the digital era where everything is immediate and generally without cost. But, unless you are big enough to monetize enough online ad revenue, you are sacrificing quality. You are having interns write stories that used to be written by real news people. You are parroting articles from wire services. Everything is moving to TV and podcasts that push a political slant and spin. We are becoming dumber and more easily manipulated for it.
There is no such thing as a truly free meal and people don't seem to care what they are digesting from these free news services. At this point, I wouldn't subscribe to OWH either. They don't put much out there that makes it worthwhile, but it's all just a self perpetuating cycle where we are now being wound up by the same few media services.
I have never stopped with the OWH. I get the Sunday paper and 7 day on line.
I have actually started paying for news online for the first time this year (excluding the OWH which I have all along). I subscribe to the Athletic and KC Star (got a great deal on good Friday). Both are well worth it for me.
I feel sorry for Oak View - have many fond memories of the place as a kid and do remember when its halcyon/'glory days'. That being said, I feel like the place is just wanting to die, but can't for a few reasons.
-As mentioned multiple times on this thread, now that the Crossroads is gone, any spike in crime at the Westroads could potentially drive foot traffic to Oak View. I can't imagine it would be enough to completely save the place from turning into a glorified flea market (it's certainly on that track), but it seems like it would be enough to spare it from the wrecking ball
-Dillards and Penney's are still there. Dillards owning it's own parcel really doesn't make much of a difference IMO - Sears had a 99yr (?) lease at the Crossroads and still met the wrecking ball. In any event, they have no place else to go in Omaha. I can't for the life of me see them opening any new stores, let alone freestanding ones in a market like this and when it comes to the rumors of them moving to Westroads, as novel as the idea might be, they'd struggle too hard against Von Mauer and Penney's to make such a venture viable IMO.
The Oak View Penney's on the other hand serves as an interesting one-two punch with that Kohl's location, making that area sort of a mecca for low-mid priced retail (if you didn't want to go to the Westroads, venture N of Dodge or otherwise drive all the way out to Gretna). Sears going bye-bye probably helped one or both of them strengthen their positions too.
-The Outer Ring isn't quite dead. Whether it's that Wine & Spirits shop, Barnes & Nobles, Kohl's or the fact that restaurants like Applebees, Longhorn Steakhouse & Red Lobster are still open, the fact those places (and the others I've missed) still get enough business to stay open keeps the mall itself from completely rotting out.
Now if the new management is as bad as has been alluded to, I can see Dillards kissing Omaha good bye entirely, JC Penney turning the Oak View location into a clearance outlet (or folding as Sears did) and some/all of the surrounding businesses following suit. It's far, far too early right now though to make any kinds of prognostications, but in my mind, it doesn't look good.
Aside from a radically different concept (turning into an entertainment center, putting in housing etc etc) or bringing in a new-to-market retailer, the only way I could see for the Mall itself to come back is to get a management concern to aggressively recruit some of the now-departed retailers to come back (as others have mentioned in one way or another, this is highly unrealistic and not at all in line with what the new management has done with its other properties).
I was in the mall today for lunch and I bet it was 80 degrees in the mall. I inquired to the food court operator and they told me that the AC has been broken and they are not fixing it. Unless they can make it a more shoppable experience, I fear they will lose more shoppers than they will gain, even if Westroads continues to have bad press.
I've also learned that when the new owner took over, the entire management staff walked. Apparently, no one wanted to work for him after learning of his reputation. The new owner was left with the administrative assistant, they have since hired a few more staff. My shopping is usually limited to Dillard's while I'm at Oakview and thankfully they have their own building systems which include AC. I don't think there is any question as to whether Dillard's is leaving to go to Westroads only a question as to when it will happen. Too many of the Oakview stores are duplicated at both Village Pointe and Westroads. There is no reason for them to keep the Oak View locations and I believe they are only riding out their leases until they can close without penalty. Someone in Dillard's thought that they had 10-15 closures in the last year alone and anticipate the closures to keep happening. I think so many people are pulling for Oakview but under this ownership with the current people in charge, it is a sinking ship. Did anyone catch the new owner, Mike Kohen on channel 7 a few weeks ago?
Well, we’ve all been playing armchair QB with what the future will be of Oakview Mall and the surrounding Mousetrap, that if I had $5.00 for each proclamation, I could probably retire now..and not wait the 5 or so years before I turn 65, lol..
It’s natural and human nature to gloom and doom the entire area..but as one poster said, the heart is still actively beating..Let’s see what this newly labeled slumlord owner does to the mall component within the next 2-3 years..this will greatly dictate the future course of the entire area...
Crockett1985 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:22 am
I feel sorry for Oak View - have many fond memories of the place as a kid and do remember when its halcyon/'glory days'. That being said, I feel like the place is just wanting to die, but can't for a few reasons.
-As mentioned multiple times on this thread, now that the Crossroads is gone, any spike in crime at the Westroads could potentially drive foot traffic to Oak View. I can't imagine it would be enough to completely save the place from turning into a glorified flea market (it's certainly on that track), but it seems like it would be enough to spare it from the wrecking ball
Right now as we sit here the scammers and the wheeler dealers are plotting out how to get some Tiffs and handouts and investors so as they can get rich building a nice new mall out on 200th & Dodge or Center. The next mall will be way out there where the money is.
Think you already saw the culmination of that with the Gretna outlets - no need to worry about TIF when you can just move somewhere there's nobody to pay taxes to.
I don't know if anybody is building a traditional mall ever again, to be honest.
PWL73316 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:29 am
Think you already saw the culmination of that with the Gretna outlets - no need to worry about TIF when you can just move somewhere there's nobody to pay taxes to.
I don't know if anybody is building a traditional mall ever again, to be honest.
Yeah I thnk it's been years since a new traditional enclosed mall was built in the US. American Dream in NJ might be the newest but it's been an ongoing fiasco. It actually started construction in 2004. Jordan Creek in West Des Moines might be one of the last ones built in the US.
PWL73316 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:29 am
Think you already saw the culmination of that with the Gretna outlets - no need to worry about TIF when you can just move somewhere there's nobody to pay taxes to.
I don't know if anybody is building a traditional mall ever again, to be honest.
Yeah I thnk it's been years since a new traditional enclosed mall was built in the US. American Dream in NJ might be the newest but it's been an ongoing fiasco. It actually started construction in 2004. Jordan Creek in West Des Moines might be one of the last ones built in the US.
Greg
Closest I can think of is Springfield Mall in Springfield VA was completely torn down (other than the anchors) and rebuilt as a new enclosed mall, but there was already an enclosed mall there
Something called "Chicago Dog 42" is opening up in the food court in late July. It's a locally owned concept that will feature authentic Chicago Vienna beef hot dogs (and the bright green relish, and sport peppers, etc). They're working with Rotellas to source fresh-baked poppyseed buns that mimic the ones that you get at hot dog stands in the windy city, which I thought was interesting.
Always like to see unique local places get off the ground -- and Oak View desperately needs some local investment to stop the downward momentum.
WBR_Tom wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:04 am
Something called "Chicago Dog 42" is opening up in the food court in late July. It's a locally owned concept that will feature authentic Chicago Vienna beef hot dogs (and the bright green relish, and sport peppers, etc). They're working with Rotellas to source fresh-baked poppyseed buns that mimic the ones that you get at hot dog stands in the windy city, which I thought was interesting.
Always like to see unique local places get off the ground -- and Oak View desperately needs some local investment to stop the downward momentum.
I agree. This is some good news for the mall component. They need as much local investment as they can get..
Maybe one thing that will help the mall component, is an overall focus on trying to create a strong and diverse offerings food court. Everyone’s got to eat..and since things are opening back up, the timing is perfect right now for places like this to pop up. And a good, authentic Chicago Dog is a popular food item in the Omaha market for sure...
Omaha Cowboy wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:39 pm
Just think if an Alberado’s decided to hang a shingle at the Oakview Mall Food Court..
What a boon to the mall that would be..good competition with the El Alambre already located there...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
Not with a slumlord landlord that apparently won't even fix the AC
We can hope.. I’ve seen stranger things happen in my lifetime..
My point being, we all know the Oakview Mall component is sagging.. Perhaps a small way to carve a niche and make it somewhat relevant again, might be through peoples stomachs..
This new Chicago Dog spot using locally sourced bread baked by Rotella’s could be a nice spark..
They need something new. I think two more closures in the last month. Panda Express and Scooter’s both moved out. I’ve heard Charley’s Phillies is next. On a positive note, I believe they finally fixed the AC after many tenant complaints.
Fixing the A/C is a positive step.. Especially considering we’re entering Summer and patrons wont be interested in encountering an enclosed mall when the 90 degree outside temp matches what the customer would likely endure indoors with no A/C. No brainer lol...
With how saturated the Omaha area is with JCPenney locations, and the retailer already being in shaky ground, I’m sure the Oakview location would be the first Metro location to close if they wanted to shrink their footprint.
I would predict several more closures at Oakview within the next few months. Many of the retail managers talk like they know what is coming. A few years back, our regional manager told us our Oakview lease was up in January, 2021 and she thought that there were several stores in the same boat. Thankfully, our team can transfer to another location nearby.
BIGO88 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:03 pm
Midwest Warrior Gym is going in between Guitar Center and Famous Footwear. I guess it’s supposed to be like an American Warrior ninja gym for kids.
Now that’s some decently good news for the surrounding Oakview Mousetrap area…
BIGO88 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:03 pm
Midwest Warrior Gym is going in between Guitar Center and Famous Footwear. I guess it’s supposed to be like an American Warrior ninja gym for kids.
Now that’s some decently good news for the surrounding Oakview Mousetrap area…
Ciao..LiO…Peace
They really need to work on the roads in the mousetrap area. Can't think of any worse in other developments around town. We go to Barnes and Noble (only because it's the only one left). Other than that, it's not to the point I won't go for anything else in that area. For the mall, will still go to Dillard's occasionally. If Dillard's were to leave, I would have no reason to ever go to Oak View again.
I believe Omaha is the largest metro in the United States with just one Barnes & Noble. At one time we had three with the one in CB. Knoxville TN is a slightly smaller metro than Omaha has just one as well. Metro’s in Omaha’s population range typically have two.
I would like to see the OakView B&N move to Westroads.
BIGO88 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:03 pm
Midwest Warrior Gym is going in between Guitar Center and Famous Footwear. I guess it’s supposed to be like an American Warrior ninja gym for kids.
Now that’s some decently good news for the surrounding Oakview Mousetrap area…
Ciao..LiO…Peace
They really need to work on the roads in the mousetrap area. Can't think of any worse in other developments around town. We go to Barnes and Noble (only because it's the only one left). Other than that, it's not to the point I won't go for anything else in that area. For the mall, will still go to Dillard's occasionally. If Dillard's were to leave, I would have no reason to ever go to Oak View again.
Greg
Oh yes. Those roads around the Mousetrap area need soooo much work. I frequent several business in the surrounding area and the roads and parking lots are in very shoddy shape. You have to be careful…
Cermak wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:27 am
I would like to see the OakView B&N move to Westroads.
Ever since they built that connector road behind AMC, I've had a feeling that the B&N is sitting in exactly the wrong spot. The connector road comes out on the NE corner of B&N, but the light is on the west side, and basically connects the Oakview parking lot with indirect access to various stores on the south side of the street. It would make so much more sense for the connector road to come out at the light. But maybe they're trying not to introduce any extra traffic into the light industrial area behind the former Skate Daze?
I was just inside OakView for first time in over a year. It looked about how I thought it would. Somewhat depressing and very dated, vintage 1990. They never bothered to remodel the place even once. Of course, it had many empty stores, especially the Younkers wing. But still a few National chains remained.
The Chicago Dog restaurant looks about ready to open. I may visit it once it does. If and when Dillard’s leaves I think that will be the end for OakView.
Also drove by Omaha’s last remaining Barnes & Noble, it looked packed on a Saturday afternoon. The building itself could use a paint job as it looks a little faded. I’m guessing the B&N in Omaha does very well. It should be one of the top performers in the chain, at least regionally.
ad2330 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:27 pm
There are some rumblings of a national indoor Karting user for the AMC.
Lots of other ‘entertainment’ users haven’t been successful, I’d be curious to see how this does.
Thoughts?
I would love that. I have been thinking about entertainment options not in Omaha, or little options, indoor karting is one of them. We have Joe's in Council Bluffs, but Oakview would be a good location for it. It they have electric karts and a nice layout, that would be awesome.
ita wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:30 pm
I would love that. I have been thinking about entertainment options not in Omaha, or little options, indoor karting is one of them. We have Joe's in Council Bluffs, but Oakview would be a good location for it. It they have electric karts and a nice layout, that would be awesome.
I think the last time I went karting in Nebraska was probably at Top Dog in Bellevue in the late 80s/early 90s. I've done it lots of places while on vacation, but rarely here at home.
ita wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:30 pm
I would love that. I have been thinking about entertainment options not in Omaha, or little options, indoor karting is one of them. We have Joe's in Council Bluffs, but Oakview would be a good location for it. It they have electric karts and a nice layout, that would be awesome.
I think the last time I went karting in Nebraska was probably at Top Dog in Bellevue in the late 80s/early 90s. I've done it lots of places while on vacation, but rarely here at home.
National Indoor Karting used to be at 8840 S 137th Cir sometime in the early 00's.
ita wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:30 pm
I would love that. I have been thinking about entertainment options not in Omaha, or little options, indoor karting is one of them. We have Joe's in Council Bluffs, but Oakview would be a good location for it. It they have electric karts and a nice layout, that would be awesome.
I think the last time I went karting in Nebraska was probably at Top Dog in Bellevue in the late 80s/early 90s. I've done it lots of places while on vacation, but rarely here at home.
National Indoor Karting used to be at 8840 S 137th Cir sometime in the early 00's.
ad2330 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:27 pm
There are some rumblings of a national indoor Karting user for the AMC.
Lots of other ‘entertainment’ users haven’t been successful, I’d be curious to see how this does.
Thoughts?
It was mentioned on Grow Omaha back in April that DMSi Software was going to move their offices into the old AMC. Has that plan been scuttled??
I haven’t heard or seen anything yes or no for this. There’s no mention of the move on the DMSi web page or any other mention of the move just from the cursory search I made..
I guess we’ll have to wait and see- I might drive over to the property and see if there is any visual intel…
ad2330 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:27 pm
There are some rumblings of a national indoor Karting user for the AMC.
Lots of other ‘entertainment’ users haven’t been successful, I’d be curious to see how this does.
Thoughts?
It was mentioned on Grow Omaha back in April that DMSi Software was going to move their offices into the old AMC. Has that plan been scuttled??
I haven’t heard or seen anything yes or no for this. There’s no mention of the move on the DMSi web page or any other mention of the move just from the cursory search I made..
I guess we’ll have to wait and see- I might drive over to the property and see if there is any visual intel…
Ciao..LiO…Peace
I went to Barnes and Noble about a month ago and people were working on the old AMC location. They were painting the outside green if I remember right? Looked like a ton of other work going on inside. I think it was pretty well announced it would be transitioning to office space. My prediction a couple of years ago was that it would end up as a mega church. I didn't anticipate office space. Pandemic or no, I'm still surprised AMC renovated that location. Just didn't seem like a long term money winner for them, but they are so huge, it was probably just a line item in their renovations budget and no one looked at it very closely.
In a general sense, what are the barriers to upzoning the area, adding a traditional street grid, and putting in 1-3,000 dwellings in an area like this?
Obviously not everyone's aligned on a goal like that, but assuming there was some desire to rethink and upzone the space, how would we actually achieve that as a city? Does the city need to be the entity that clears roadblocks, demos the old buildings, and updates infrastructure? Or is that something that a private developer can be expected to do if they have the right incentives?
I think we have so many underperforming / underwhelming intersections that would be great for urbanized redevelopment, but I imagine we'll look at that intersection in 30 years, still speculating whether the movie theater will reopen, and we'll be staring at that mousetrap road design as the concrete curbs continues to crumble.
.. The dumbing down continues...
…