Oak View Mall (144 & West Center Rd)

[bigredmed1]

Oakview has some stuff repopulating there periphery, but a lot of it is empty. I am not sure that blowing it all down for a 1000 townhouses would be effective. Would you want to live there?

[ita]

In a general sense, what are the barriers to upzoning the area, adding a traditional street grid, and putting in 1-3,000 dwellings in an area like this?

Obviously not everyone's aligned on a goal like that, but assuming there was some desire to rethink and upzone the space, how would we actually achieve that as a city? Does the city need to be the entity that clears roadblocks, demos the old buildings, and updates infrastructure? Or is that something that a private developer can be expected to do if they have the right incentives?

I think we have so many underperforming / underwhelming intersections that would be great for urbanized redevelopment, but I imagine we'll look at that intersection in 30 years, still speculating whether the movie theater will reopen, and we'll be staring at that mousetrap road design as the concrete curbs continues to crumble.

It's already MU (mixed use), so owners could go wild with whatever they want, relatively. To go whole hog on the mousetrap would be difficult because of the multiple property owners, but I would really like to see some of these parcels transformed to multifamily residential of some sort. With the mall being somewhat of a transit center for the bus, it would be nice to see some dense residential projects in the mousetrap. I would prefer to see parking lots developed first before taking down existing buildings. Put some residential on the NW mall parking lot so that it can be closer to the side of the mall where the buses stop, the medical clinic and closer to Family Fare and such. Work with Metro to have a north to south route on 144th and you could connect Oakview to the burgeoning industrial center around HWY 50 and I-80 and Heartwood and the office parks off Dodge. Anyway, this thought exercise is more likely a thing of naught, but it's nice to discuss how that area can be improved.

[bigredmed1]

A north south Metro connector could facilitate use of the Dodge connector by Millardites needing to go downtown or even UNO. Run it from Maple to Harrison?

[Omaha Cowboy]

There are some rumblings of a national indoor Karting user for the AMC.

Lots of other ‘entertainment’ users haven’t been successful, I’d be curious to see how this does.

Thoughts?

It was mentioned on Grow Omaha back in April that DMSi Software was going to move their offices into the old AMC. Has that plan been scuttled??

I haven’t heard or seen anything yes or no for this. There’s no mention of the move on the DMSi web page or any other mention of the move just from the cursory search I made..

I guess we’ll have to wait and see- I might drive over to the property and see if there is any visual intel…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

I went to Barnes and Noble about a month ago and people were working on the old AMC location. They were painting the outside green if I remember right? Looked like a ton of other work going on inside. I think it was pretty well announced it would be transitioning to office space. My prediction a couple of years ago was that it would end up as a mega church. I didn't anticipate office space. Pandemic or no, I'm still surprised AMC renovated that location. Just didn't seem like a long term money winner for them, but they are so huge, it was probably just a line item in their renovations budget and no one looked at it very closely.

I honestly think the Pandemic threw AMC Oakview for a major loop..

I’d hope to see a conversion of this parcel into business..I just don’t see any evidence of the happenstance..on line at least, lol. I need to carve out some time to get over there and see if anything further is happening…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[riceweb]

Oakview has some stuff repopulating there periphery, but a lot of it is empty. I am not sure that blowing it all down for a 1000 townhouses would be effective. Would you want to live there?

There are townhomes going up all along 204th. There's ample demand. People want their own home, and they want something relatively affordable. I believe infill / upzoning should be a goal for older commercial districts that seem to have outlived their functional life--truly what else are we going to do with the space? I guarantee that unless we bulldoze and completely reimagine the space, we'll still be having this same conversation about the area in 10 or 20 years. Same way that we talk about Southroads. Same way that we talked about Crossroads forever (and frankly, until the buildings are built and open, I'm not confident in that project finishing, it's just been one disappointment after another with that mall).

Pretty straightforward thing:

• Clear roadblocks for redevelopment including proactive zoning and setback changes
• Connect bus rapid transit to intersections like these proactively
• Bulldoze old, underperforming commercial districts, which in turn improves our metrics for commercial real estate investment and indirectly speeds developments like Crossroads, West Farm, Avenue One, etc.
• Develop dense, walkable, transit-connected neighborhoods throughout the entire city without dramatically changing the traffic or character of these areas.

[bigredmed1]

Got to wonder if your plan would lead to diminished investment. Say I want to open a store in X part of town, but knew that if the mall I was investing in didn’t achieve riceweb’s definition of renewed glory, the bulldozers were coming, I would likely say no and go online only, thus cutting my employee costs and moving out of Omaha where I wouldn’t be subject to that risk. Instead of opening a store front and employing 6 people.

[riceweb]

Got to wonder if your plan would lead to diminished investment. Say I want to open a store in X part of town, but knew that if the mall I was investing in didn’t achieve riceweb’s definition of renewed glory, the bulldozers were coming, I would likely say no and go online only, thus cutting my employee costs and moving out of Omaha where I wouldn’t be subject to that risk. Instead of opening a store front and employing 6 people.

As long as a property owner is adequately compensated for future rental and sale cash flows, an investor doesn't mind if they get eminent domain'd. The cost is usually pretty high, tho, so cities don't use the tool very often. But I do think it's a tool the city will be forced to use at some point because it's clear a large swath of the middle of our city (basically 72nd -> 144th St) is no longer functional for most retailers.

[bigredmed1]

Pretty generalized considering that 114th is rebuilding. 119thand Pacific seems to be ok. Several other areas are doing ok.

Getting fair and equitable compensation seems to be the big sticking point in your eminent domain based hegemony. Don’t see our city coffers willing to pay cash for all the retail centers between 72nd and 144th. Even if that much money did exist in the budget, why would I as the owner of the business mentioned previously want less than top dollar? After all I moved in to the city, supported it all these years, hired 6 people who will now be out of work, and did it all without TIF money or other city blackmail (subsidies). You want my store? Pay up. Full price and I set it.

[Cermak]

I went to pick up a take out dinner at Applebee’s at OakView about 6:30 Saturday night and was surprised to see the entire parking lot of the former Younkers and Sears completely dark with no parking lot lights on. The parking lot lights were on over by Pennys and Dillard’s. This mall is in dire condition, at some point a decision will need to be made on its future. Right now it’s barely hanging on. It looks really bad at night half dark and could encourage crime and loitering, not good. It’s to bad what happened to this once thriving area, back in the 90’s this was one the hottest retail spots in Omaha.

[GetUrban]

I went to pick up a take out dinner at Applebee’s at OakView about 6:30 Saturday night and was surprised to see the entire parking lot of the former Younkers and Sears completely dark with no parking lot lights on. The parking lot lights were on over by Pennys and Dillard’s. This mall is in dire condition, at some point a decision will need to be made on its future. Right now it’s barely hanging on. It looks really bad at night half dark and could encourage crime and loitering, not good. It’s to bad what happened to this once thriving area, back in the 90’s this was one the hottest retail spots in Omaha.

While it’s depressing to see the demise of that once vibrant mall, it’s easy to understand why the manager of a struggling mall wouldn’t want to pay the electric bill to light a parking lot directly adjacent to a large swath of empty retail space. If anything, they could install motion detectors to turn them on as needed for safety. Plus, having the lighting off helps reduce unnecessary light pollution in the area.

[Busguy2010]

I bet The Proper People have this place on their radar.

[Cermak]

I went to pick up a take out dinner at Applebee’s at OakView about 6:30 Saturday night and was surprised to see the entire parking lot of the former Younkers and Sears completely dark with no parking lot lights on. The parking lot lights were on over by Pennys and Dillard’s. This mall is in dire condition, at some point a decision will need to be made on its future. Right now it’s barely hanging on. It looks really bad at night half dark and could encourage crime and loitering, not good. It’s to bad what happened to this once thriving area, back in the 90’s this was one the hottest retail spots in Omaha.

While it’s depressing to see the demise of that once vibrant mall, it’s easy to understand why the manager of a struggling mall wouldn’t want to pay the electric bill to light a parking lot directly adjacent to a large swath of empty retail space. If anything, they could install motion detectors to turn them on as needed for safety. Plus, having the lighting off helps reduce unnecessary light pollution in the area.

Agree less light pollution is a good thing. And save on the electric bill. It just looked weird, I wasn’t expecting to see that. It just sort of reaffirmed to me that this mall is almost dead.

[Greg S]

I went to pick up a take out dinner at Applebee’s at OakView about 6:30 Saturday night and was surprised to see the entire parking lot of the former Younkers and Sears completely dark with no parking lot lights on. The parking lot lights were on over by Pennys and Dillard’s. This mall is in dire condition, at some point a decision will need to be made on its future. Right now it’s barely hanging on. It looks really bad at night half dark and could encourage crime and loitering, not good. It’s to bad what happened to this once thriving area, back in the 90’s this was one the hottest retail spots in Omaha.

While it’s depressing to see the demise of that once vibrant mall, it’s easy to understand why the manager of a struggling mall wouldn’t want to pay the electric bill to light a parking lot directly adjacent to a large swath of empty retail space. If anything, they could install motion detectors to turn them on as needed for safety. Plus, having the lighting off helps reduce unnecessary light pollution in the area.

Agree less light pollution is a good thing. And save on the electric bill. It just looked weird, I wasn’t expecting to see that. It just sort of reaffirmed to me that this mall is almost dead.

I can't think of a mall that has lost as much as Oak View has, that has rebounded.

Greg

[omaha79]

I went to pick up a take out dinner at Applebee’s at OakView about 6:30 Saturday night and was surprised to see the entire parking lot of the former Younkers and Sears completely dark with no parking lot lights on. The parking lot lights were on over by Pennys and Dillard’s. This mall is in dire condition, at some point a decision will need to be made on its future. Right now it’s barely hanging on. It looks really bad at night half dark and could encourage crime and loitering, not good. It’s to bad what happened to this once thriving area, back in the 90’s this was one the hottest retail spots in Omaha.

While it’s depressing to see the demise of that once vibrant mall, it’s easy to understand why the manager of a struggling mall wouldn’t want to pay the electric bill to light a parking lot directly adjacent to a large swath of empty retail space. If anything, they could install motion detectors to turn them on as needed for safety. Plus, having the lighting off helps reduce unnecessary light pollution in the area.

Agree less light pollution is a good thing. And save on the electric bill. It just looked weird, I wasn’t expecting to see that. It just sort of reaffirmed to me that this mall is almost dead.

I can't think of a mall that has lost as much as Oak View has, that has rebounded.

Greg

Nope. It is definitely now in the endgame of the mall death spiral that I talked about close to almost 4-5 years ago now.

Oak View is now The Center circa 1995, Southroads circa 1998. It's now Crossroads in 2002. It's Mall of the Bluffs in 2008. You're simply fighting a force of nature like gravity trying to keep the mall going. As I said a few years ago, once you reach the levels of having multiple anchor stores gone, there simply is no coming back from it.

It would be unprecedented in the retail history of our city to have Oak View pull out of it now. Better malls died a bitter death in better retail and economic conditions than Oak View. Its fate is sealed.

[Omaha Cowboy]

What is sealing the fate of the Oakview Mall component, is the new slumlord manager which took over during Covid year 2020 (which is also a sealer of fate for this mall)..

What WILL be the final nail, is if/when Dillard’s decides to bail out.. Then the mall component is truly finished…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[ByrnesViceVersa]

The mall will probably not be able to make a comeback, which is too bad. I love this mall, especially the building itself. If only there was some type of development that could use part of the mall.

[Omaha Cowboy]

The mall will probably not be able to make a comeback, which is too bad. I love this mall, especially the building itself. If only there was some type of development that could use part of the mall.

It was a mall in transition when Covid hit March 2020..Then a slumlord management company took over..a double whammy this mall likely will not overcome. I still contend it had a punchers chance to succeed back in 2019 pre covid..

If Dillard’s truly decides to cut out, the mall is definitely over.. And it is too bad..like you, I’ve always wanted Oakview Mall to succeed.. Sadly, the events of the last 19 months, make it appear an impossibility…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[OmahaOmaha]

Oak View mall is going to soon be dead for many reasons…

1. People now days won’t shop a store unless they can park close to the front door.

2. People are buying so much stuff online these days and having it delivered to their home.

3. Mall stores started pricing clothing at such ridiculous prices that people started going to stores like Ross, TJ Max, Burlington.

4. Young people, the ones that most mall stores cater to, no longer like to hang out at the mall. They prefer to meet friends on social media instead.

5. People don’t like to walk around the mall to get exercise. They’re too busy watching TV, Netflix, YouTube, etc while having restaurants deliver food to their front door.

6. Covid and now Biden’s inflation and supply chain problems will make Oak View’s death come much sooner.

[omaha79]

What is sealing the fate of the Oakview Mall component, is the new slumlord manager which took over during Covid year 2020 (which is also a sealer of fate for this mall)..

What WILL be the final nail, is if/when Dillard’s decides to bail out.. Then the mall component is truly finished…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

But, had there really been a future for the mall, it wouldn't have ended up in the hands of a slumlord either way. The value would have been high enough that a higher end mall manager would have jumped in. the silence from anyone but a "slum lord" is just another symptom of the terminal disease that was already slowly killing Oak View. Covid may have accelerated things, but Oak View was WELL on its way.

This is all just a part of the process for the dying mall playbook we've seen play out across the metro multiple times over the last 30 years. It's wash, rinse, repeat. It can take a few years to a decade, but history has proven, that once this process begins, it never reverses. It never has in Omaha's history. You might be able to find a few examples nationally where the tide has been stemmed, but not here.

Oak View will soon take its place in the dead mall cemetery with The Center, Southroads, Crossroads, and Mall of the Bluffs.

[omaha79]

Oak View mall is going to soon be dead for many reasons…

1. People now days won’t shop a store unless they can park close to the front door.

2. People are buying so much stuff online these days and having it delivered to their home.

3. Mall stores started pricing clothing at such ridiculous prices that people started going to stores like Ross, TJ Max, Burlington.

4. Young people, the ones that most mall stores cater to, no longer like to hang out at the mall. They prefer to meet friends on social media instead.

5. People don’t like to walk around the mall to get exercise. They’re too busy watching TV, Netflix, YouTube, etc while having restaurants deliver food to their front door.

6. Covid and now Biden’s inflation and supply chain problems will make Oak View’s death come much sooner.

People are lazy enough now, they don't even want to drive 5 minutes for fast food and sit in line for another 5 minutes. They'll pay a 3rd party stranger to do it for them and deliver it to their house...which boggles my mind.

I see my neighbors getting Uber Eats on stuff like Chick Fil A and Starbucks all the time. This is where I shake my head. My generational gap is starting to show. No way I'd ever pay someone to go through a drive through for me.

[Busguy2010]

I see my neighbors getting Uber Eats on stuff like Chick Fil A and Starbucks all the time. This is where I shake my head. My generational gap is starting to show. No way I'd ever pay someone to go through a drive through for me.

I'm a young person and I have never and will never get my food delivered by third party. It costs more and every time I see a food delivery person, they look like the bottom of the barrel types.

[Omaha Cowboy]

What is sealing the fate of the Oakview Mall component, is the new slumlord manager which took over during Covid year 2020 (which is also a sealer of fate for this mall)..

What WILL be the final nail, is if/when Dillard’s decides to bail out.. Then the mall component is truly finished…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

But, had there really been a future for the mall, it wouldn't have ended up in the hands of a slumlord either way. The value would have been high enough that a higher end mall manager would have jumped in. the silence from anyone but a "slum lord" is just another symptom of the terminal disease that was already slowly killing Oak View. Covid may have accelerated things, but Oak View was WELL on its way.

This is all just a part of the process for the dying mall playbook we've seen play out across the metro multiple times over the last 30 years. It's wash, rinse, repeat. It can take a few years to a decade, but history has proven, that once this process begins, it never reverses. It never has in Omaha's history. You might be able to find a few examples nationally where the tide has been stemmed, but not here.

Oak View will soon take its place in the dead mall cemetery with The Center, Southroads, Crossroads, and Mall of the Bluffs.

Maybe- but Oakview Mall was being shopped before covid hit..and there was a chance it would have fallen into better hands..but covid really accelerated a spiral that could have possibly been avoided..but the current management in place, and now the supposed real possibility of Dillard’s relocating will ultimately create the death of this mall..


We’ll see. I’m having dinner with a real estate guru in this city later in the week and I’ll asl his take about where he thinks this mall is headed (death or otherwise) and report feedback here.. I’m also curious about what will become of the surrounding Mousetrap if these events unfold..So we’ll see…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[skinzfan23]

I see my neighbors getting Uber Eats on stuff like Chick Fil A and Starbucks all the time. This is where I shake my head. My generational gap is starting to show. No way I'd ever pay someone to go through a drive through for me.

Haha, I think the same thing. It is amazing how many people in my neighborhood have packages delivered 7 days a week, not to mention all the food services as well. One day I was out doing yard work and my neighbor had an Amazon delivery, and pizza hut and followed by 2 GrubHub drivers all within a 15 min period.

I understand in some situations it may be easier/more convenient to have things delivered but in my experience it seems to take forever and the food isn't as good if I would have just driven and gotten it myself. (plus I don't have to pay any fees)

[NEDodger]

People are lazy enough now, they don't even want to drive 5 minutes for fast food and sit in line for another 5 minutes. They'll pay a 3rd party stranger to do it for them and deliver it to their house...which boggles my mind.

I see my neighbors getting Uber Eats on stuff like Chick Fil A and Starbucks all the time. This is where I shake my head. My generational gap is starting to show. No way I'd ever pay someone to go through a drive through for me.

And from personal experience, the same people who dish out 7 bucks every day because they don't want to drive 9 blocks will also complain about how they don't have any money.

[Garrett]

You all are really reaching with some of these points. Food delivery isn’t what killed Oak View. Supply chains didn’t kill Oak View. Social media didn’t even kill Oak View. Oak View has been on a long downward spiral for years. We’ve been talking about it for years. All of these problems you’re trying to pin the blame on should also be killing Westroads, NEX, and Village Pointe, yet there they are, still going. Downtown isn’t dead because people can’t park right in front of the stores. Oak View is dying because it has a bad location, and never really attempted to innovate in its retail offerings. It’s following the pattern of many malls that have died before it, before any of these dire problems you all seem to be pointing fingers at.

[Louie]

You all are really reaching with some of these points. Food delivery isn’t what killed Oak View. Supply chains didn’t kill Oak View. Social media didn’t even kill Oak View. Oak View has been on a long downward spiral for years. We’ve been talking about it for years. All of these problems you’re trying to pin the blame on should also be killing Westroads, NEX, and Village Pointe, yet there they are, still going. Downtown isn’t dead because people can’t park right in front of the stores. Oak View is dying because it has a bad location, and never really attempted to innovate in its retail offerings. It’s following the pattern of many malls that have died before it, before any of these dire problems you all seem to be pointing fingers at.

Thank you, I thought I was taking crazy pills.

[bigredmed1]

You all are really reaching with some of these points. Food delivery isn’t what killed Oak View. Supply chains didn’t kill Oak View. Social media didn’t even kill Oak View. Oak View has been on a long downward spiral for years. We’ve been talking about it for years. All of these problems you’re trying to pin the blame on should also be killing Westroads, NEX, and Village Pointe, yet there they are, still going. Downtown isn’t dead because people can’t park right in front of the stores. Oak View is dying because it has a bad location, and never really attempted to innovate in its retail offerings. It’s following the pattern of many malls that have died before it, before any of these dire problems you all seem to be pointing fingers at.

Thank you, I thought I was taking crazy pills.

Yep

[Busguy2010]

I agree that Oakview's demise is its own problem. I was just quickly agreeing to the blurb about third party food delivery being weird.

I always liked the dome over the food court. But I really have no reason to go there now. I used to ride the bus out there pretty often.

[GetUrban]

Since I-80, I-680 and the West Dodge expressway serve NEX, Village Pointe and Westroads, they are much easier to get to from more places in Omaha than Oakview ever was. It served Millard and West O well until Omaha spread out further southwest, west and northwest. But you can see the demise of similar malls nationwide for a myriad of reasons.

[nebugeater]

Don't know the answer but will pose the question.

How much has the success of Nebraska Crossing had on the downturn or speed of the downturn of Oakview?

[Greg S]

The mall will probably not be able to make a comeback, which is too bad. I love this mall, especially the building itself. If only there was some type of development that could use part of the mall.

It was a mall in transition when Covid hit March 2020..Then a slumlord management company took over..a double whammy this mall likely will not overcome. I still contend it had a punchers chance to succeed back in 2019 pre covid..

If Dillard’s truly decides to cut out, the mall is definitely over.. And it is too bad..like you, I’ve always wanted Oakview Mall to succeed.. Sadly, the events of the last 19 months, make it appear an impossibility…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

You are right on the double whammy. Although I think by 2019 it really wasn't attractive to any good developers that would have tried to bring it back to any sort of stabilization as a mall. Malls are just such a tough sell. Westroads will be our only mall, Des Moines will be down to just Jordan Creek, and KC to Oak Park.

Greg

[Greg S]

Don't know the answer but will pose the question.

How much has the success of Nebraska Crossing had on the downturn or speed of the downturn of Oakview?

It's had some but I don't think nearly as much as Village Pointe, along with options like Amazon. But going with what others are saying, it's not just the local competition. Malls are dying everywhere. Like I have previously mentioned, Omaha will be down to 1, Des Moines 1, even KC 1.

We've been losing them for years, Southroads, Crossroads, Mall of the Bluffs. Every city has similar stories.

When I was a kid we flocked to the mall, spent money on food, arcades, movies and clothes. I have 2 teenagers and they are not nearly as interested in shopping as we were in the 80's. For all the knocks on the current generation, I give them credit there.

Greg

[Omahomie]

What are the chances we could get an IKEA there? Not sure on their criteria but would be a nice destination with all the land available.

[Brad]

What are the chances we could get an IKEA there? Not sure on their criteria but would be a nice destination with all the land available.

I think if you go back several pages in this thread, that was already discussed. Not likely. All Ikeas (At least in the western unites states) are on a major interstate or freeway.

[riceweb]

What are the chances we could get an IKEA there? Not sure on their criteria but would be a nice destination with all the land available.

I think if you go back several pages in this thread, that was already discussed. Not likely. All Ikeas (At least in the western unites states) are on a major interstate or freeway.

I'm pretty sure a future IKEA will be located along 370, not far off of I-80, since there are so many other giant warehouses down that way. But there's some possibility that IKEA is rethinking their store model for smaller markets, so who knows.

Tho I'll reiterate that we should consider Oak View a lost cause for traditional retail.

[Omaha Cowboy]

The mall will probably not be able to make a comeback, which is too bad. I love this mall, especially the building itself. If only there was some type of development that could use part of the mall.

It was a mall in transition when Covid hit March 2020..Then a slumlord management company took over..a double whammy this mall likely will not overcome. I still contend it had a punchers chance to succeed back in 2019 pre covid..

If Dillard’s truly decides to cut out, the mall is definitely over.. And it is too bad..like you, I’ve always wanted Oakview Mall to succeed.. Sadly, the events of the last 19 months, make it appear an impossibility…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

You are right on the double whammy. Although I think by 2019 it really wasn't attractive to any good developers that would have tried to bring it back to any sort of stabilization as a mall. Malls are just such a tough sell. Westroads will be our only mall, Des Moines will be down to just Jordan Creek, and KC to Oak Park.

Greg

I continued to hold out hope prior to the pandemic.. There were some developments which trended toward the mall at least treading water while the surrounding Mousetrap had some positives- AMC Oakview had completed a multi million $$ renovation of their inside IMAX theater, Genesis Health Club (24 Hour Fitness) was moving it’s location from 144th and F to the Mousetrap, Wine BEER & Spirits Superstore opened up (and continues to do quite nicely)..all of these developments were to drive more people into the area for multiple reasons..and some of that collateral would also (hopefully) drive more people to visit the mall component too. Make no mistake, Oakview Mall was in trouble prior to Covid..but it was not completely dead in the water..

Then March of 2020 hit- plans changed and halted..a slumlord management team took over..and today, about the only “victories” we see for the Mall, is when an eatery occasionally sets up a new shop in the food court.. And like I said before, if Dillard’s bails, the Mall components death is officially sealed.. And it’s a shame really..

Like I’ve said a zillion times over the last few years in this thread- We’ll see what the future holds..and if I garner any intel, I’ll share it here…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[omaha79]

You all are really reaching with some of these points. Food delivery isn’t what killed Oak View. Supply chains didn’t kill Oak View. Social media didn’t even kill Oak View. Oak View has been on a long downward spiral for years. We’ve been talking about it for years. All of these problems you’re trying to pin the blame on should also be killing Westroads, NEX, and Village Pointe, yet there they are, still going. Downtown isn’t dead because people can’t park right in front of the stores. Oak View is dying because it has a bad location, and never really attempted to innovate in its retail offerings. It’s following the pattern of many malls that have died before it, before any of these dire problems you all seem to be pointing fingers at.

Totally agree with this. And, I was only making an observation on how I don't get food delivery. It has nothing to do with Oak View dying, but the delivery of goods and services in general has played a part with all malls struggling.

Overall, I've been an almost morbid observer of the dying mall phenomenon all my life. As a child, my malls were The Center and Southroads mostly. I watched both die in slow motion. Places that were once bustling centers of commerce hollowed out to ghostly shells of their former glory, holding on as paint peels and label scars prominently face anyone who ventures in.

It's sad, but it's a commentary on the disposable nature of our society and real estate development overall. We are just always chasing the dragon of the next new sexy development and let what came before sit and rot for decades.

And yes, all signs pointed to a sad end for Oak View for 10 years. Maybe early on there was some hope, but there really hasn't been since they lost the 2nd anchor.

[riceweb]

It's sad, but it's a commentary on the disposable nature of our society and real estate development overall. We are just always chasing the dragon of the next new sexy development and let what came before sit and rot for decades.

Two things:

• I think customers have gone to other malls and shopping centers because they're more accessible/functional. People didn't stop shopping at Oak View because they inherently disliked it or thought it was passé, it simply did not meet their needs anymore.
• Oak View was built to be disposable in the first place. Let's not pretend Oak View is the Sagrada Família

[ChadJK]

It's sad, but it's a commentary on the disposable nature of our society and real estate development overall. We are just always chasing the dragon of the next new sexy development and let what came before sit and rot for decades.

I concur. A lot of these new developments simply cannibalize the older ones. What's funny is how everyone gets so excited (especially on here) about every new development or district when often times it just means a slightly older development or out-of-trend district will suffer as a result of customers and tenants lost to the new thing. Often times, the areas being developed or revitalized only need developed and revitalized because years prior some other new thing opened and turned them into the sad ghost towns they are. So, maybe everyone can take it down a notch on new district worship.

[omaha79]

It's sad, but it's a commentary on the disposable nature of our society and real estate development overall. We are just always chasing the dragon of the next new sexy development and let what came before sit and rot for decades.

Two things:

• I think customers have gone to other malls and shopping centers because they're more accessible/functional. People didn't stop shopping at Oak View because they inherently disliked it or thought it was passé, it simply did not meet their needs anymore.
• Oak View was built to be disposable in the first place. Let's not pretend Oak View is the Sagrada Família

I would argue that's exactly what happened. As I said years ago in this thread, the first signs of stress at Oak View started in the mid 00's when Village Point opened. Village Points first act was to steal Best Buy...back when Best Buy was still a big deal. That made one less reason for people to go to Oak View. Scheels opened out there as well. That directed traffic away from the existing Dick's sporting goods. Marcus opened their theater out there, which probably wasn't needed with a 24 screen Oak View theater along with 20 Grand and Q Cinema 9 being open at that time. But, they did it and it took further traffic away from the Mousetrap. There were many other retailers that could have gone to Oak View (as it had empty real estate), but they wanted the new area in a slightly more affluent part of suburbia. So, we got Village Point...to the detriment of Oak View for sure. After that, one could argue that Shadow Lake and the Gretna Outlet malls both pushed daggers into the wounded body of Oak View in their own ways. The announcments of Sterling Ridge (5 minutes from Oak View with some retail and restaurant space ) didn't help and neither did the annnouncement of West Farm.

The bottom line is we severly overbuilt on large scale commercial developments in the 00's at a time where the market was going away from the need of this development. An existing mall is always at a disadvantage, but doing it at that time in history was beyond damaging to an already vulnerable entity like Oak View Mall.

And yes, Oak View was never designed to be a flagship mall for this city. more of a secondary mall. And, it suffered almost form the start. brought nothing new to the city. only copies of stores that already existed. I totally agree.