Mr. Lahey wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:03 pm
Hi there! I’ve been a fan of this site for a long time and just now finally decided to register. Thank you for letting me join the conversation.
One thing that I thought of recently: when the Woodmen was built didn’t it have a height restriction of other newly built buildings for like 30 years (correct me if I’m wrong)? It was completed in 1969. 30 years later in 1999 the FNBO tower starts construction and is completed in 2002. And now nearly 20 years after its completion there’s talk of a potentially higher tower being built.
Granted I understand Omaha wasn’t necessarily in the market for another tall skyscraper and we’ve had other proposals before but I’m curious that if FNBO possibly had a height restriction (however long it may have been or if it existed) and if that restriction is over does it give this rumor stronger legs to stand on?
Regardless it is a blast to speculate on what might be and, while being cautiously optimistic, knowing that things are in the works/being discussed.
Side note: one of my favorite things over the years has been seeing member’s renderings of downtown like Hawkeye’s yesterday. Brad made one recently as well and it’s fun to imagine what downtown would be like with more density and having these sacred lots being filled.
Happy Saturday, everyone!
Welcome to the forum ..
Regarding height restrictions for high rises in downtown Omaha, as others have said, they’re aren’t any…
I think GetUrban is onto something. I believe there is a flight path issue with that runway. I feel like that issue was also raised with the proposed Marriott hotel to be attached to CenturyLink. That project fell through for other reasons but I feel like there was some discussion of whether the height of that building would be permissible given its proximity to the airport. I think this location may be sufficiently to the west that the flight path of 18/36 wouldn't be an issue.
Also, in Lincoln, the Capitol viewshed is the biggest reason but there is also a flight path issue with runway 14/32 which goes over the CBD. I think the primary motivator for the height restriction is the viewshed to the Capitol though.
Lastly, on the speculation over the primary tenant of this proposed building. Could it be Woodmen? They have a history of having the tallest building in Omaha (two different buildings over there history). Maybe they are ready to take back the top spot?
I would throw Markel in the mix as potential tenants. They occupy a good chunk of Central Park Plaza and are growing. They are also much larger than some of the other likely tenants and their building is long in the tooth.
jomaha9 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:02 pm
I would throw Markel in the mix as potential tenants. They occupy a good chunk of Central Park Plaza and are growing. They are also much larger than some of the other likely tenants and their building is long in the tooth.
Markel Insurance..that’s a decent guess too. The rumor though, indicated a large insurance company that has their HQ’s in Omaha.. Which may rule Markel out..
Can't wait for the banner OWH headlines confirming your intel. Bet they're coming sooner rather than later and by that I mean within a couple of weeks.
Mr. Lahey wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:03 pm
Hi there! I’ve been a fan of this site for a long time and just now finally decided to register. Thank you for letting me join the conversation.
One thing that I thought of recently: when the Woodmen was built didn’t it have a height restriction of other newly built buildings for like 30 years (correct me if I’m wrong)? It was completed in 1969. 30 years later in 1999 the FNBO tower starts construction and is completed in 2002. And now nearly 20 years after its completion there’s talk of a potentially higher tower being built.
Granted I understand Omaha wasn’t necessarily in the market for another tall skyscraper and we’ve had other proposals before but I’m curious that if FNBO possibly had a height restriction (however long it may have been or if it existed) and if that restriction is over does it give this rumor stronger legs to stand on?
Regardless it is a blast to speculate on what might be and, while being cautiously optimistic, knowing that things are in the works/being discussed.
Side note: one of my favorite things over the years has been seeing member’s renderings of downtown like Hawkeye’s yesterday. Brad made one recently as well and it’s fun to imagine what downtown would be like with more density and having these sacred lots being filled.
Happy Saturday, everyone!
Welcome to the forum ..
Regarding height restrictions for high rises in downtown Omaha, as others have said, they’re aren’t any…
omahahawk wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:24 pm
Can't wait for the banner OWH headlines confirming your intel. Bet they're coming sooner rather than later and by that I mean within a couple of weeks.
I agree. I bet they want to push this ASAP so it can distract from the Heritage/Library marketing fiasco. This would allow them a reset so they can come back with a clean slate and plan.
Whatever ends up getting built, I just hope it makes a good architectural statement. One First National is just such a nice tallest and skyscraper architecture nationwide the last few years hasn’t been the most inspiring.
OutoftheCanyon wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:16 am
I did hear the other day that the med center has quite a few employees in the Mutual hq that have been told they need to look for other digs.
Interesting..
I wonder what timetable was given for their eventual departure…
OutoftheCanyon wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:16 am
I did hear the other day that the med center has quite a few employees in the Mutual hq that have been told they need to look for other digs.
I wonder if they’ll try to pull a residential conversion on their HQ, if it is indeed Mutual.
Mutual makes the most sense in terms of revenue(aside from Berkshire who doesn't need an iconic structure). Also consider the Mutual logo rebrand. A new logo in a towering new structure. That strong, proud looking lion would look even more regal atop a 50 story "rock".
buildomaha wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:39 am
Mutual did execute construction of midtown crossing in a not so bright economic era so this isn’t too far off if true.
True. And perpetually buying more land in midtown could be an investment commitment as much as anything else. If the 2050 Midtown Corp is still a go, Mutual redeveloping their own land could go a long way into making the streetcar dream a reality.
Erik wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:16 am
I heard a rumor of a suburban style campus with a ten square block area of 1 to 2 story buildings, all having spires up to 700 ft
For a brief second, in all of it's absurdity, all of you thought - this sounds like something that would happen here
Erik wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:16 am
I heard a rumor of a suburban style campus with a ten square block area of 1 to 2 story buildings, all having spires up to 700 ft
For a brief second, in all of it's absurdity, all of you thought - this sounds like something that would happen here
the Civic site plan?
True enough- that would be a nightmare for the civic site, lol..
In any case, fingers crossed and stay tuned for the potential 1416 Dodge development…
GetUrban wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:46 pm
Sad to think that if they hadn’t been in such a big hurry to clear the whole city block for a pie-in-the-sky high rise development, we’d still have the old significant historic UP building that would be full of condos or a hotel for the last 11-12 years. That building was ugly on the east and bare north sides, but maybe something could have been done to dress those up a bit. But what’s done is done, so I’m still hopeful we’ll eventually get our wish of a very substantial Lanoha high-rise.
It was good building stock, no doubt.
Sure it was a grand old piece of architecture, no doubt.. But the old UP building itself was poorly maintained, filled with asbestos and literally crumbling to the ground bit by bit before it was finally demolished..
A friend of mine who worked at UP during that time, told me that pieces of the building were actually breaking off and falling to the ground. The building had become a hazard..and to renovate would have carried an astronomical cost..
In the end, the city (who owned the property) has always tasked the developer to build a new, signature high rise on this property. That requirement has never wavered..
It’s been 15 years. Let’s hope Lanoha can finally come through...
Ciao..LiO...Peace
The pandemic has made this an even more interesting project and factors into the timeline. Lanoha has taken an approach that is 180 degrees to the Wall Street Tower; rather than focusing on residential, Lanoha dropped that altogether to focus on corporate tenants. Granted, Lanoha has said that there will be mixed use, including retail and possible entertainment space, but this is a 700k square foot project dedicated to office. That may have not been a bad idea in 2018/2019, but from what I have read the type of corporate HQ that Lanoha has planned for this project is not in vogue right now. On the other hand, some large corporate entities like Amazon are looking to spread out its work force in other parts of the county where workers can find affordable housing and still retain a high quality of life. In my opinion, Lanoha's strategy at this point could be to focus on a regional office (or two or three) to fill some or all of the building rather than getting whole hog, a new HQ. Additionally, I was hoping that maybe they would pivot somewhat to include housing, but according to most recent update, that is still not happening. I think it is a missed opportunity with a project this large and contrary to what Lanoha said, I think there are people in Omaha who would be willing to pay a higher price to live in a skyscraper like this. But that's just my two cents.
I would love to see them incorporate several floors for a hotel and work with Marriott to move the DoubleTree there and then demolish the existing one to open up 16th street back up. The 27 story tower could be hotel and residential and the 30 story could be for the regional office user you're talking about.
Big E wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:37 pm
Reality check...
Anyone realize the last new condo/to-own residential construction or rehab of any significance (excluding the M's Pub fire rehab) in or near downtown Omaha was either jLofts or 1101 Jackson, almost 15 year ago?
Demand like that doesn't really bode well for 400 ft residential anythings downtown any time soon.
Agree, it would have to be apartments, the condo market in Omaha is probably at or near saturation point. 400ft is probably overly optimistic 250-300ft would be more likely. I would hope Omaha could support at least one 250-275ft apartment tower.
Why do you say that the condo market has reached saturation? I use the app Trulia, and there are A LOT more condominiums/townhomes for sale in Des Moines compared to Omaha. It seems to me that if we had reached saturation, then it would be difficult to sell those units and there would be many properties for sale. Maybe a lot has changed since January?
I’m beginning to believe the Insurance tenant component to this rumored plan is Mutual of Omaha..
And it makes sense-
I finally had a chance to talk to a very good friend of mine whose worked at Mutual for nearly 30 years..I told him about the rumors of this 700+ foot skyscraper with the insurance HQ business component..and he told me the idea actually makes good sense for Mutual..word is, from their CEO (and he knows their CEO pretty well), that the idea is to lease office space rather than build and own..their current HQ’s is in a particularly bad state- numerous HVAC issues amongst other major problems.. Mutual knows they need to move.. My friend has heard news that there is a potential HQ’s move soon and once announced, it’ll be a “very cool” development..He also stated Mutual’s current CEO (an Omaha native) is also a visionary..
This is what I was told this afternoon..and it seems consistent with what we’ve been hearing..after today, if I placed a bet, I’d say it’s Mutual of Omaha making this potential move..For many of us, they’re probably the obvious choice anyway..
I thought I’d share a bit more insight I received from my friend and a long time Mutual employee..
I would be shocked if Mutual moved all its employees away from an already struggling Midtown Crossing which they own. The turnover in MTC retail since all the Mutual employees went remote is real. I can't imagine Mutual wants that lack of bodies to permanently be away from MTC. Now if they have something planned for their existing buildings (apartments)simultaneously, that's a different story.
Foundations wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:58 pm
I would be shocked if Mutual moved all its employees away from an already struggling Midtown Crossing which they own. The turnover in MTC retail since all the Mutual employees went remote is real. I can't imagine Mutual wants that lack of bodies to permanently be away from MTC. Now if they have something planned for their existing buildings (apartments)simultaneously, that's a different story.
It will take a few years to get this built and moved into. With the close proximity to UNMC and the 8,000 jobs headed there in the next 10 years I’m sure MTC will be fine. Especially if more housing goes up on the current site.
OutoftheCanyon wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:03 am
It will take a few years to get this built and moved into. With the close proximity to UNMC and the 8,000 jobs headed there in the next 10 years I’m sure MTC will be fine. Especially if more housing goes up on the current site.
I sure hope so. I'll be moving into the CIP MTC Apartments in January. I'm really excited about the area (fingers very crossed hoping for Alamo to reopen), but it would be very disappointing to enter such a cool neighborhood during its last moments of life
Foundations wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:58 pm
I would be shocked if Mutual moved all its employees away from an already struggling Midtown Crossing which they own. The turnover in MTC retail since all the Mutual employees went remote is real. I can't imagine Mutual wants that lack of bodies to permanently be away from MTC. Now if they have something planned for their existing buildings (apartments)simultaneously, that's a different story.
It will take a few years to get this built and moved into. With the close proximity to UNMC and the 8,000 jobs headed there in the next 10 years I’m sure MTC will be fine. Especially if more housing goes up on the current site.
And especially as public transportation continues to expand and grow. A Mutual HQ on 1416 Dodge would be a short ride to Midtown, same goes with Med Center to MTO. It would allow all of the new residents downtown and workers easier access to Midtown.
Last edited by Doctor Fate on Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
I would be surprised if it’s not Mutual of Omaha. They have an aging headquarters building and have not built a major office building in Omaha in decades. And have been the subject of office expansions in the past. Maybe now it will happen.
Foundations wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:58 pm
I would be shocked if Mutual moved all its employees away from an already struggling Midtown Crossing which they own. The turnover in MTC retail since all the Mutual employees went remote is real. I can't imagine Mutual wants that lack of bodies to permanently be away from MTC. Now if they have something planned for their existing buildings (apartments)simultaneously, that's a different story.
I wouldn’t. The current HQ building they’re located is in a complete state of disrepair.. Mutual employees and Midtown Crossing are not mutually exclusive either..
Mutual knows they need to get out of the HQ building they’re in, regardless of MTC..which, I’d say, will stand alone just fine within the core with the massive number of jobs Nebraska Medicine will be adding within the next 5 years..
In any case, somethings brewing.. it’ll be interesting to see what, if anything, shakes out. But all signs are pointing to something significant…
jomaha9 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:15 pm
If this rumor has legs, it will be interesting to see what insurance company would anchor a 50 story building in Omaha. Mutual of Omaha is the obvious pick here as they have talked about a new headquarters for years. Do they still own a stake in Midtown Crossing? Would they relocate out of their neighborhood?
Some less obvious possibilities...
Markel - Currently in Central Park Plaza. Would they expand in Omaha? Do they want to be in a new tower?
Metlife - Currently in the Gavilion Building. Potential to relocate some of their workforce out of an expensive metro (New York) to Omaha?
Aetna - Larger office out west. Would they move downtown and expand in Omaha?
Physicians Mutual - They currently have a lot of land in west downtown. They could anchor a tower and make a killing redeveloping their campus
Pacific Life - They have a relatively new building in Aksarben. Not sure on this one.
Berkshire Hathaway Insurance - Could potentially anchor a tower
Breeze - Growing startup but not likely to anchor a tower
MoO has also said they would want to stay in midtown, but who knows.
What I wonder: Is Lanoha still leading this? I mean, it's gaining 20 floors, so that is a radical change. Perhaps it is still the same plan but stretched out to fit what Lanoha wanted, plus the new rumored tenant?
I feel like Physicians might be the most likely, with a property sale / swap deal for Lanoha. Where Lanoha can't get the backing they want, but aren't willing to give up this spot unless they have something new to develop later. Get the current PM downtown spot, plus maybe something out west might fit that bill perfectly, while also giving PM a cash injection to build a part of a new plan.
Obviously, I'm just sitting here speculating though.
The land swap idea is very interesting for Physicians Mutual. That much land on the edge of downtown would be developed quickly since they could be shorter buildings.
The land could also be sold to the Joselyn. I'm not sure if their endowment could buy all of that land, but it would definitely be a no brainier for the museum to expand.
So if Mutual of Omaha builds and relocates to a skyscraper headquarters in downtown Omaha, what happens to the original Mutual buildings?
Do they sit empty? For how long? Or are they demolished as is the general custom and philosophy in Omaha?
If Physicians Mutual relocates to a shiny new tower, same questions. What becomes of their present building?
How would that office building serve the Joslyn now that they have announced another addition?
Vitruvius wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:35 pm
So if Mutual of Omaha builds and relocates to a skyscraper headquarters in downtown Omaha, what happens to the original Mutual buildings?
Do they sit empty? For how long? Or are they demolished as is the general custom and philosophy in Omaha?
If Physicians Mutual relocates to a shiny new tower, same questions. What becomes of their present building?
How would that office building serve the Joslyn now that they have announced another addition?
Mutual: If true, I'm sure part of the plan would include what comes next. As someone else mentioned I suspect demoing the old headquarters building in favor of more housing projects.
Joslyn: The current Joslyn expansion is relatively small compared to the amount of space on the Physicians campus. It's even bigger than the Civic site. I don't think the Physicians building would particularly serve Joslyn but the possibility of redeveloping the space is intriguing.
If Mutual was to leave their Midtown campus and go downtown the HQ would likely go into demo. As iconic as that building is its been a headache for Mutual for so time. It's more cost-effective to build new. But Mutual is still heavily invested in Midtown and with Nebraska Med Center expansion in the works Midtown will continue to grow.
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ByrnesViceVersa wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:23 pm
If Mutual was to leave their Midtown campus and go downtown the HQ would likely go into demo. As iconic as that building is its been a headache for Mutual for so time. It's more cost-effective to build new. But Mutual is still heavily invested in Midtown and with Nebraska Med Center expansion in the works Midtown will continue to grow.
Right..
My understanding is the condition of the iconic Mutual of Omaha building is so bad, they’re now having HVAC issues..
They know they need to move..and their CEO has intimated they’d rather lease than own..which makes this potential development at 1416 Dodge a bit more realistic…
Sustainable design is a big thing now for most architects and and even some developers, so I’d be very surprised if the existing Mutual buildings aren’t repurposed in some manner. They surely are in need of a major HVAC upgrade. But more realistically, the shells could even be gutted down to the steel columns beams and completely converted into other uses such as residential apartments/condos on the upper levels, and/or some flexible office space with commercial space at street level.
If the rumors are true and Mutual does indeed end up building on the 1416 Dodge site, it will be fun to see if the new building picks up any design cues from the original Mutual buildings or if they create something totally new, or subtly do both.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
GetUrban wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:01 am
Sustainable design is a big thing now for most architects and and even some developers, so I’d be very surprised if the existing Mutual buildings aren’t repurposed in some manner. They surely are in need of a major HVAC upgrade. But more realistically, the shells could even be gutted down to the steel columns beams and completely converted into other uses such as residential apartments/condos, flexible office space with commercial space at street level.
If the rumors are true and Mutual does indeed end up building on the 1416 Dodge site, it will be fun to see if the new building picks up any design cues from the original Mutual buildings or if they create something totally new, or subtly do both.
The floor plates are huge in the MOO building. Not close to an architect, but I don't see how efficient use of that space works for residential. Where there is a will there is a way, but that seems like a really difficult building to convert to residential. Might need to embrace Charlie Munger thought and embrace the cube life.
GetUrban wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:01 am
If the rumors are true and Mutual does indeed end up building on the 1416 Dodge site, it will be fun to see if the new building picks up any design cues from the original Mutual buildings or if they create something totally new, or subtly do both.
I’m not certain Mutual would be building to own at 1416 Dodge..
But rather, be a major tenant in a 700 plus foot skyscraper..Which, I’d think, would have multi purpose business, hospitality, retail and possibly residential components…
GetUrban wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:01 am
Sustainable design is a big thing now for most architects and and even some developers, so I’d be very surprised if the existing Mutual buildings aren’t repurposed in some manner. They surely are in need of a major HVAC upgrade. But more realistically, the shells could even be gutted down to the steel columns beams and completely converted into other uses such as residential apartments/condos, flexible office space with commercial space at street level.
If the rumors are true and Mutual does indeed end up building on the 1416 Dodge site, it will be fun to see if the new building picks up any design cues from the original Mutual buildings or if they create something totally new, or subtly do both.
The floor plates are huge in the MOO building. Not close to an architect, but I don't see how efficient use of that space works for residential. Where there is a will there is a way, but that seems like a really difficult building to convert to residential. Might need to embrace Charlie Munger thought and embrace the cube life.
Yeah, that’s true. The whole complex in the main building has over 760,000 square feet of space on 15 floors of various sizes, in a hodge podge of additions in 1979, 1970, 1958, 1948, to the original 1940 building. But looking at the conversion of an old power plant into the Breakers Apartments as an example, anything is possible, I suppose. Maybe some light wells could be cut into the interior of the building like was done in some of the warehouse conversions such as the Beebe Runyon building at 9th and Douglas. I think some amazing apartments or condos could be created in the tall portion of the Mutual north tower.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
GetUrban wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:01 am
If the rumors are true and Mutual does indeed end up building on the 1416 Dodge site, it will be fun to see if the new building picks up any design cues from the original Mutual buildings or if they create something totally new, or subtly do both.
I’m not certain Mutual would be building to own at 1416 Dodge..
But rather, be a major tenant in a 700 plus foot skyscraper..Which, I’d think, would have multi purpose business, hospitality, retail and possibly residential components…
Ciao..LiO…Peace
Yeah, no doubt that they’d only lease part of the building and not actually own it. Having Mutual as a major tenant would seem to justify the increase in height to 700’ from what was proposed in 2019 with the two-tower scheme. I agree it will most likely be a mixed-use building with some residential at that kind of height.
He said "They are some big, ugly red brick buildings" ...and then they were gone.
After thinking about this, Mutual would be an obvious choice and it makes a lot of sense for them.
As previously stated, their building is rundown. They could tear down their current building and redevelop that land as well as a lot of those parking lots into mid-rise apartments/condos (amazing location to live: right off dodge, near blackstone, MTC, and a quick drive or bike to downtown), office for UNMC. They could pay off a 30 year lease in an iconic high rise downtown off the sale and even the development of that land. Win-win scenario
OracleOfOmaha wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:22 pm
After thinking about this, Mutual would be an obvious choice and it makes a lot of sense for them.
As previously stated, their building is rundown. They could tear down their current building and redevelop that land as well as a lot of those parking lots into mid-rise apartments/condos (amazing location to live: right off dodge, near blackstone, MTC, and a quick drive or bike to downtown), office for UNMC. They could pay off a 30 year lease in an iconic high rise downtown off the sale and even the development of that land. Win-win scenario
Yep..
The groundwork for this rumor has been soundly laid. Now we just need an announcement of a proposal..
The waiting game continues.. And welcome to the forum …
..
