I-29 What If

[mrsticka]

What if I-29 went through Nebraska instead of Iowa?

Potential upsides:
-It would serve Omaha directly
-Nebraska would have 2 major interstate highways running through it
-It would also have a major north-south freeway route like every other state

Potential downsides:
-Having to destroy and/or remove houses and neighborhoods to make room for it
-Cutting through all those hills north of Omaha might be a challenge

What do you think?

[Busguy2010]

Best guess is it would have had to follow the path of HWY 75 pretty much all the way through. I bet it would have had to cut over into Iowa at either Plattsmouth or Nebraska City anyway, as the progression of I-29 is southeast toward Kansas City. Bottom line is I think not much to be gained.

[GetUrban]

Omaha is close enough to I-29 in CB that it probably doesn’t make much difference, other than it would have destroyed more Omaha neighborhoods on the Omaha side of the river. It’s easy enough to hop onto I-29 from I-80 if you need to head south or I-680 if you need to head north.

[damonhynes]

As a resident of Springfield with interests in KC, STL and DFW, I'm happy with I-29 where it is. The US-34 bridge was a game-changer.

[Garrett]

Didn't we have this exact discussion about 5 months ago in the first what if thread?

[Brad]

Didn't we have this exact discussion about 5 months ago in the first what if thread?

He asked twice, 10 days apart and nobody responded to either...

What if I-29 ran through Nebraska instead of Iowa thus serving Omaha directly? Then Nebraska would have a major north-south interstate route and they'd have 2 interstate highways running through it like pretty much every other state, except Maine.

I asked what if I-29 ran through Nebraska instead of Iowa. Here's what I came up with:

[Brad]

I'm guessing the current 29 is the preferred route because its completely flat from Mound City to Sioux City.

[Busguy2010]

I'm guessing the current 29 is the preferred route because its completely flat from Mound City to Sioux City.

Of course that's why they did it that way. However, in recent years, it has shown its disadvantages with being flooded out once or twice since 2011.

[Busguy2010]

Didn't we have this exact discussion about 5 months ago in the first what if thread?

He asked twice, 10 days apart and nobody responded to either...

What if I-29 ran through Nebraska instead of Iowa thus serving Omaha directly? Then Nebraska would have a major north-south interstate route and they'd have 2 interstate highways running through it like pretty much every other state, except Maine.

I asked what if I-29 ran through Nebraska instead of Iowa. Here's what I came up with:

Come on guys, that's pretty messed up... And it was a month and ten days apart. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, and seeking answers.

[Brad]

I'm guessing the current 29 is the preferred route because its completely flat from Mound City to Sioux City.

Of course that's why they did it that way. However, in recent years, it has shown its disadvantages with being flooded out once or twice since 2011.

Yeah, it has flooded out twice, but when the route was chosen way back in the day, do you think they ever suspected that could happen or was it a safe assumption to go with the flat route to save money.

[Original]

I think also have to consider - 29 also connects St Joe to KC, and when just looking at population served, as well as route directness, it makes sense to have that as a 4 lane interstate. Planned in 1963, when cattle and industrial trade between Omaha-St Joe-KC was more significant than anything on the 75N/S corridor, and so it would have, like Bus Guy said, either cut over at Nebraska city or further south at 36 (which doesn't make much sense). I don't think 75 being interstate 29 between Nebraska City and Omaha does much other than maybe move some growth that happened in CB south to Plattsmouth.

[Busguy2010]

Yeah, it has flooded out twice, but when the route was chosen way back in the day, do you think they ever suspected that could happen or was it a safe assumption to go with the flat route to save money.

I definitely think it was a fair assumption to go the flat route to save money. However, I'm sure they knew they were building in a flood plain. A calculated risk I suppose... But now that its happened twice and they had to outright replace sections of it, I wonder if in hindsight, the potential Nebraska alignment would have been the better option?

A couple I can think of are : Use HWY 75 alignment between Sioux City and Blair. Then from Blair, it could have taken the route of HWY 75, where much more of North Omaha would have been destroyed, or it could have taken the route of HWY 133, which in the end became a divided highway anyway. From there it could have spliced in with I-680 and I-80. And imagine that, I-80 in that case probably would have been much like the CB section today, only with like 5 express lanes and 5 local lanes each way, with some intermingling at certain exits. Then it continues south via HWY 75, and goes over into Iowa at Nebraska City. Kinda fun to imagine.

[damonhynes]

I'd really be happy if US-75 was four-laned from Auburn to Holton KS, myself.

[damonhynes]

Then it continues south via HWY 75, and goes over into Iowa at Nebraska City. Kinda fun to imagine.

But you'd still have the same flooding problems betw. Neb City and Mound City. I admit, on the surface it looks like I-29 was done on the cheap, but the CB&Q Napier Sub had the same hydrological problems and the RR thought the cost was acceptable.

[Greg S]

If this had happened, where would I29 come through Omaha on the north side?

Greg

[bigredmed1]

We have to keep in mind that floods of this severity have happened exactly twice since the end of the last ice age. 2011 and 2019.

The 20th century saw 1 flood close to that level in the 1950s. From 1956 to 1998, there wasn't much flooding of the MO. At least that would threaten I29. You have to go back to the last half on the 1800's to get the last wild river floods that were bluff to bluff and even those were not as bad as 2011. The corps of engineers tracks all the floods by acre-feet total volume and there were a lot of them and then you see 2019, and besting all of them is 2011.

The river was more famous for gouging out new channels in the wild phase. It was near the base of the Nebraska bluffs by Ft Calhoun till the late 1800's. Hamburg, Ia was a river port city, and DeSoto was a river town on a straight flowing section of the river sans bend. The river moved east from DeSoto and Ft.C and west from Hamburg, leaving all of them high and dry.

The Dept of the Interior has a really cool map of the channels of the Missouri by DeSoto Bend. It was straight when the Bertrand sunk. It formed the Bend and then flooded into and out of it over the late 1800's and 1900's. The channels are all mapped out as pen and ink on a map.

[Busguy2010]

But you'd still have the same flooding problems betw. Neb City and Mound City. I admit, on the surface it looks like I-29 was done on the cheap, but the CB&Q Napier Sub had the same hydrological problems and the RR thought the cost was acceptable.

Right, I was thinking that too. Nebraska City is about as far south as you can go before I-29 starts to head southeast toward St Jo and KC... But that still isn't quite far south enough to avoid the flooding. I remember in 2011, we had to take highway 59 all the way to Craig, IA, which is about 50 miles south of Nebraska City. I don't know if the 2019 flood did the same.

As someone said earlier, it would have had to take HWY 75 to HWY 36 in KS to completely avoid flooding. And that's pretty far out of the way. So there are disadvantages to both, I think they took the cheap route.

[Busguy2010]

If this had happened, where would I29 come through Omaha on the north side?

Greg

I think in the "what if" scenario, as I said earlier, Blair is the fork in the road so to speak. Would it have taken the HWY 75 route, and blaze trail through North Omaha, or would it take the HWY 133 route, and meet up with I-680, join I-80 and then continue south on HWY 75? Never know, but it is a bit of fun to imagine.

[mrsticka]

This is what I had in mind:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewe ... 311663&z=9

[Busguy2010]

Wow, you put a ton of thought into that. Had this been 1962, I would have voted for that.

[mrsticka]

Wow, you put a ton of thought into that. Had this been 1962, I would have voted for that.

Thanks. It wasn't easy to make. My thinking was "Practically every other state has at least 2 interstate routes running through it. Why not Nebraska?"

[PotatoeEatsFish]

Nebraska got lucky not having the interstate on our side. I-29 completely cut off Council Bluffs and ruined their chances of a thriving core across from Omaha. It also does not bring much business along its route, Iowa along I-29 is a wasteland.

[Louie]

Nebraska got lucky not having the interstate on our side. I-29 completely cut off Council Bluffs and ruined their chances of a thriving core across from Omaha. It also does not bring much business along its route, Iowa along I-29 is a wasteland.

I agree, we already have too much interstate in the core.

[windsor]

Thanks. It wasn't easy to make. My thinking was "Practically every other state has at least 2 interstate routes running through it. Why not Nebraska?"

Nebraska is near the bottom of the list for population per square mile. It would be hard to justify the cost of running another interstate in Nebraska. I would like to see what percentage of the population lives within 30 miles of I80. I would guess its north of 80%.

[Louie]

Thanks. It wasn't easy to make. My thinking was "Practically every other state has at least 2 interstate routes running through it. Why not Nebraska?"

Nebraska is near the bottom of the list for population per square mile. It would be hard to justify the cost of running another interstate in Nebraska. I would like to see what percentage of the population lives within 30 miles of I80. I would guess its north of 80%.

I just did a quick add up, and only counting the counties that I-80 actually goes through gets us to 1,376,572 (70%). Throw in Kearney, Adams, Phelps, and Saunders (which all have a border a stone's throw away from the interstate) and we are closer to 74%.

[damonhynes]

I just did a quick add up, and only counting the counties that I-80 actually goes through gets us to 1,376,572 (70%). Throw in Kearney, Adams, Phelps, and Saunders (which all have a border a stone's throw away from the interstate) and we are closer to 74%.

Wow. Good research! Wonder how ND MT WY compare to their interstates?

[Louie]

I just did a quick add up, and only counting the counties that I-80 actually goes through gets us to 1,376,572 (70%). Throw in Kearney, Adams, Phelps, and Saunders (which all have a border a stone's throw away from the interstate) and we are closer to 74%.

Wow. Good research! Wonder how ND MT WY compare to their interstates?

Probably even more dramatic based on the eye test.

[BRoss]

I think if I-29 ran through Nebraska, it would be further out west around I-680 and would probably follow NE-133 north towards Blair.

It was likely placed in Iowa where it is so it could run between two larger cities and serve them both.

[Busguy2010]

Nebraska got lucky not having the interstate on our side. I-29 completely cut off Council Bluffs and ruined their chances of a thriving core across from Omaha. It also does not bring much business along its route, Iowa along I-29 is a wasteland.

I agree, we already have too much interstate in the core.

The difference it would have made in mrsticka's scenario and what we actually have now wouldn't have meant much loss. Just what is now a really crappy neighborhood in North Omaha with next to no historical significance. Now, if they had done what their original plan was with extending the North Freeway directly through Minne Lusa, yes, that would have been a travesty.

Now, I don't think there's necessarily an economical benefit to having I-29 go through Nebraska. Nor do I think there's really any drawback to it either. I think it would be much like how I-29 is now, just on the other side of the river. And they wouldn't have to worry about flooding.

[Busguy2010]

I think ultimately, the hills in Nebraska are no joke. Whereas in other states, especially the south which are very hilly, they really don't have other options like we have in this case. So that's why IMO I-29 is where it is, because the flat route was an option.

[mrsticka]

Is Minne Lusa off 30th Street?

[Busguy2010]

Is Minne Lusa off 30th Street?

Yes, its the neighborhood to the east of 30th, right around Miller Park. Full of beautiful historic houses, diamonds in the rough.

[mrsticka]

Is Minne Lusa off 30th Street?

Yes, its the neighborhood to the east of 30th, right around Miller Park. Full of beautiful historic houses, diamonds in the rough.

Well, then it's a good thing I didn't have I-29 go through there in the map I made.