Let's play what if

[bigredmed1]

It would be like a hilly Lincoln. Full of state buildings and the University.

[Doctor Fate]

It would be like a hilly Lincoln. Full of state buildings and the University.

*slow clap*

I think there would be less of an issue retaining talent and retaining the presence of some of the companies who have left or downsized. Closer proximity for internships with more prominent companies. This would probably lead to more companies with a major downtown presence, creating more buildings and more density.

[bigredmed1]

Possibly. The internships would not likely stay downtown. I have a nephew who got his degree from CU and his first internship was at National Indemnity. After that, he was out west at Valmont. People follow the money and the opportunities. If 10th and Farnam has the gig, they will be there, if 130th and Farnam has the gig, they will be there instead.

[Louie]

Possibly. The internships would not likely stay downtown. I have a nephew who got his degree from CU and his first internship was at National Indemnity. After that, he was out west at Valmont. People follow the money and the opportunities. If 10th and Farnam has the gig, they will be there, if 130th and Farnam has the gig, they will be there instead.

Did he go to Valmont during school?

[bigredmed1]

Yes, was at Valmont for the last half of undergrad.

Look again at Lincoln, there are a lot of buildings that were businesses when built and when the state and NU were small. They are still there, but the businesses are not.

Employees went downtown when there was no choice, but as in Omaha and other cities, as soon as that suburban office building was there and they could shave an hour off their day and have the same future job security, they moved. With them went more and more businesses. Eventually the little shops and restaurants that catered to those workers left and that accelerated the depopulation of the office blocks (like we are seeing in NYC now.)

[Busguy2010]

Whenever I wonder what Omaha would be like with the University, and the state Capitol, I always look to Columbus Ohio. I think we add all the population of Lincoln, and Lincoln becomes just like any other city you see along I-80 (York, GI, Lexington, Kearney, North Platte). I think there'd be a lot more opportunity for people, and Omaha would have much more of a big city vibe. I think we would have already had the streetcar we're going to build now, by the early 2000's, and we would be (or have already been) in very serious planning stages of a light rail system like the one I came up with. I think our traffic would be a NIGHTMARE, more than it already is now.

[Greg S]

Whenever I wonder what Omaha would be like with the University, and the state Capitol, I always look to Columbus Ohio. I think we add all the population of Lincoln, and Lincoln becomes just like any other city you see along I-80 (York, GI, Lexington, Kearney, North Platte). I think there'd be a lot more opportunity for people, and Omaha would have much more of a big city vibe. I think we would have already had the streetcar we're going to build now, by the early 2000's, and we would be (or have already been) in very serious planning stages of a light rail system like the one I came up with. I think our traffic would be a NIGHTMARE, more than it already is now.

You add the government and especially University of Nebraska to downtown and you probably have a healthier downtown than what we have now. A larger amount and bigger variety of restaurants and bars. Some of what we are trying and have been trying to do would have already happened downtown. The university would add thousands more residents over what is there now.

Greg

[Busguy2010]

I like to imagine the university would be on Farnam Hill between 20th and Park Ave, state Capitol kind of where it was when it was here, so up on the hill in the Joslyn district and to the north.

[skinzfan23]

Agree with all the above, but would also add, many more 15-20 story buildings in the downtown core.

[mrsticka]

What if Creighton still had their football program intact today? I'll bet they'd have a pretty big football stadium downtown. Almost as big a Memorial Stadium. There'd probably be an area by the stadium where people would tailgate.

[ita]

What if we were able to save the following buildings:

- Woodmen of the World (condo development?)
- Medical Arts Building
- Hotel Fontenelle (could have been the Cottenwood Hotel of downtown?)
- Omaha Athletic Club (the Federal courthouse doesn't plop nasty surface parking in the middle of downtown?)

WoW and the Medical Arts building are where the Woodmen and FNBO towers are currently. I guess I don't know where our current tallest two towers would have gone, but anyway, I would like to think we could have save a couple of those buildings. Composition of the skyline would have changed up a bit I would think.

[Garrett]

What if we were able to save the following buildings:

- Woodmen of the World (condo development?)
- Medical Arts Building
- Hotel Fontenelle (could have been the Cottenwood Hotel of downtown?)
- Omaha Athletic Club (the Federal courthouse doesn't plop nasty surface parking in the middle of downtown?)

WoW and the Medical Arts building are where the Woodmen and FNBO towers are currently. I guess I don't know where our current tallest two towers would have gone, but anyway, I would like to think we could have save a couple of those buildings. Composition of the skyline would have changed up a bit I would think.

The original WoW building was actually where the ugly State Office Building is now.

[ita]

What if we were able to save the following buildings:

- Woodmen of the World (condo development?)
- Medical Arts Building
- Hotel Fontenelle (could have been the Cottenwood Hotel of downtown?)
- Omaha Athletic Club (the Federal courthouse doesn't plop nasty surface parking in the middle of downtown?)

WoW and the Medical Arts building are where the Woodmen and FNBO towers are currently. I guess I don't know where our current tallest two towers would have gone, but anyway, I would like to think we could have save a couple of those buildings. Composition of the skyline would have changed up a bit I would think.

The original WoW building was actually where the ugly State Office Building is now.

Wait a sec, knocked that down for the state building? That hurts bad. We need to rectify that mistake. The WoW building could of been a nice redevelopment project had it survived.

[bigredmed1]

How many of these old buildings were pigs in lace? Asbestos and lead waste dumps? Having worked at UNMC in a building built around WW1, the cost to modernize even just a doorway was staggering. To build a door between a conference room and the floor was $250,000 and required mining engineers to stabilize it during construction. The planned nursing unit remodel was scrapped when it was found that the rough in construction was over a million. Just to cut the wall.

We always talk about the buildings, but never ask why Medical Arts was replaced by the Doctor's building by Clarkson. Other than the docs involved wanted an ownership stake that Medical Arts didn't afford them, what were the conditions there?

[ita]

How many of these old buildings were pigs in lace? Asbestos and lead waste dumps? Having worked at UNMC in a building built around WW1, the cost to modernize even just a doorway was staggering. To build a door between a conference room and the floor was $250,000 and required mining engineers to stabilize it during construction. The planned nursing unit remodel was scrapped when it was found that the rough in construction was over a million. Just to cut the wall.

We always talk about the buildings, but never ask why Medical Arts was replaced by the Doctor's building by Clarkson. Other than the docs involved wanted an ownership stake that Medical Arts didn't afford them, what were the conditions there?

Thanks for the input. I am relatively new to the area, so I don't know the history of a lot of buildings. The medical arts building sounds like one that was better off demolised, but the WoW, Fontenelle and Athletic Club could have gone under some lead remediation, as needed, and turned to some really neat projects. It looks like they have very distinctive architecture that could/should of been saved. There have been so many redevelopments of old buildings recently that it makes me wonder what might have been we these old, tall buildings that were demolished. But, again, I wasn't here to even see these buildings. Maybe there were structural issues at play?

[bigredmed1]

The old university hospital building has structural brick walls and the upper floors are feet thick, so even small projects are spendy. The plumbing is cast iron and so old even semiretired master plumbers have to reach way back in their memory banks to fix things. These were cool buildings, but they were from their time. Anna Wilson had the biggest whorehouse around and donated it to be a hospital. By the 1960's, it was a barely adequate drug rehab clinic before it got turned into i480. Some buildings just are not salvageable. Sad to say.

It would have been cool to have these old places, but sometimes, they exceed their sellby dated.

[mrsticka]

Here's a what-if scenario regarding Crossroads Mall:

What if in the mid-to-late 80's when they extended it and added that new wing that lead to Dillard's and also that second floor that led to the food court and Dillard's they also extended the second floor above the original east-west wing to give access to the Sears and Younkers?

If they did that, would it have maybe kept the second floor open? Or would it have just only delayed the inevitable? I don't know. I never will.

[Busguy2010]

If they did that, I think the second floor would have never been full. And I think it would have made the death of Crossroads even more glaring.

[mrsticka]

Well, unfortunately, we'll never know.

[mcarch]

What if we were able to save the following buildings:

- Woodmen of the World (condo development?)
- Medical Arts Building
- Hotel Fontenelle (could have been the Cottenwood Hotel of downtown?)
- Omaha Athletic Club (the Federal courthouse doesn't plop nasty surface parking in the middle of downtown?)

WoW and the Medical Arts building are where the Woodmen and FNBO towers are currently. I guess I don't know where our current tallest two towers would have gone, but anyway, I would like to think we could have save a couple of those buildings. Composition of the skyline would have changed up a bit I would think.

The original WoW building was actually where the ugly State Office Building is now.

Wait a sec, knocked that down for the state building? That hurts bad. We need to rectify that mistake. The WoW building could of been a nice redevelopment project had it survived.

Or a good Main Library Site... that was NEVER considered, with the state offices moved to the Civic Site.

[Bob from Omaha]

Here's one I thought about last night. What if one of these two things happened:

1) The plan for an airport somewhat between Omaha and Lincoln was actually carried out and Eppley and Lincoln's airport were closed?

2) Lincoln quit trying to add a little service and closed their airport and a rail line of some sort was built between Lincoln and Eppley.

I thought about it last night as I was reading about the newest plan to give airports money to bribe airlines to add service in Nebraska.

I believe that in either case either Eppley or the one between Omaha and Lincoln would have grown faster pre-covid and now.

I'd also add another ancillary what if. What if in addition to the above Allegiant picked either the one between Omaha and Lincoln or Eppley for the base, with about a dozen new cities and between 1/2 million and a million additional travelers.

Toss those together and you have your 5.5-6.5 million totals. In any event it seems that Lincoln may lure more service but it will be limited. I have to say at this point I have nothing against Lincoln or its airport. I've been impressed with Lincoln's growth, especially downtown, for some time. As I say, it's about time Lincoln flexed its muscles. My whole point is economic. Lincoln's airport will always be the poor cousin to Eppley. If Lincoln tossed it's flyers to Eppley it would add demand and that brings more frequent service and likely new destinations. That's all.

[mrsticka]

What if 14th and Superior in Lincoln was never turned into a roundabout? What if it was still a traditional intersection with traffic lights?
What if they simply widened 14th to only 3 lanes (1 north, 1 south and a center turn lane) between Superior and Alvo Road?
What if they kept the original 2-lane bridge over I-80 from when it was originally built back in the 60s and just built a pedestrian bridge right next to it? I mean for 14th Street of course.
What if 14th and Alvo was also still a traditional intersection by this time? What if they added traffic lights there instead?
What if they had done all this with 14th Street in 2011-2012?

Going further back, what if when they first built the US 77 west bypass in the late 80s and early 90s, they made it a full freeway through Lincoln? That means they build the Rosa Parks Way intersection (which was Capitol Parkway West at the time) as a diamond interchange. They do the same with Pioneers Blvd. They simply turn Old Cheney Road into an overpass above US 77, then build the Warlick Blvd intersection as a trumpet interchange. Finally at Saltillo Road is the first traffic light intersection.
What if they had done that with US 77 back then?

And what if the speed limit on O Street was 45 throughout Lincoln instead of only 40? Except for downtown, of course.

[ita]

What if West Dodge express was never built? Does downtown/midtown remain the business core of the City? Does LRT become more of a palpable option and a stronger economic center? Is job/business sprawl inevitable even without West Dodge express?

[Louie]

What if West Dodge express was never built? Does downtown/midtown remain the business core of the City? Does LRT become more of a palpable option and a stronger economic center? Is job/business sprawl inevitable even without West Dodge express?

Great question. I definitely would assume that sprawl would be happening a little slower.

[ita]

What if West Dodge express was never built? Does downtown/midtown remain the business core of the City? Does LRT become more of a palpable option and a stronger economic center? Is job/business sprawl inevitable even without West Dodge express?

Great question. I definitely would assume that sprawl would be happening a little slower.

I know you can't compare cities, but looking at what Lincoln has done downtown in the last decade has been impressive, considering their relative size. This is especially apparent with residential development. It's different with Lincoln having UNL and the capitol located downtown, but they also lack the type of highway/expressway infrastructure Omaha is built around. At least, that's what it feels like when I visit Lincoln. Granted, Lincoln is not immune to sprawl, but downtown developments have rivaled Omaha's.

[nebport5]

White flight and sprawl pre-date the West Dodge expressway. Look around this country. It's not unique to Omaha. And furthermore, there's a reason Elkhorn was annexed in 2005, a year before the expressway opened.

[ita]

White flight and sprawl pre-date the West Dodge expressway. Look around this country. It's not unique to Omaha. And furthermore, there's a reason Elkhorn was annexed in 2005, a year before the expressway opened.

Good points. What I am thinking about is if West Expressway doesn't happen, do we still get concentration of major corporate and operation offices at West Dodge Business Park, offices at Heartwood, Village Point, Avenue One? Or was there already a migration of jobs outside of the core or even the 680/80 ring by 2005, that not having the Expressway doesn't make a difference? I don't know where all those businesses were located previously.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

White flight and sprawl pre-date the West Dodge expressway. Look around this country. It's not unique to Omaha. And furthermore, there's a reason Elkhorn was annexed in 2005, a year before the expressway opened.

Good points. What I am thinking about is if West Expressway doesn't happen, do we still get concentration of major corporate and operation offices at West Dodge Business Park, offices at Heartwood, Village Point, Avenue One? Or was there already a migration of jobs outside of the core or even the 680/80 ring by 2005, that not having the Expressway doesn't make a difference? I don't know where all those businesses were located previously.

I think the offices along the W Dodge Expressway would still exist, though perhaps to a lesser extent if the division of intersections didn't happen. Before it became a divided highway it looked much like it does east of I-680 to about 72nd street where there is also many suburban office parks.

[Bob from Omaha]

The west dodge expressway was in response to west Omaha development & traffic. I lived in Whitehall Condos at 127th and Dodge from 1983 to 1992. Prior to the expressway and the side roads I took my life in my hands trying to turn left into the condos from westbound Dodge. There was no turn lane & cars were constantly flying up from behind me. Also, backups at 114th and 120th were horrible.