Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[PWL73316]

This is the same fundamental proposed streetcar route which we have spent millions of dollars studying over decades, starting before I moved here 15 years ago. Pretending like it was Mutual that decided that it should go along 10th Street and then Farnam / Harney is just fundamentally dishonest.

Mutual moved to the route, they didn't decide it.

[NEDodger]

This is the same fundamental proposed streetcar route which we have spent millions of dollars studying over decades, starting before I moved here 15 years ago. Pretending like it was Mutual that decided that it should go along 10th Street and then Farnam / Harney is just fundamentally dishonest.

Mutual moved to the route, they didn't decide it.

I was going to say….I thought the same thing. The argument has historically been to connect UNMC to downtown, and subsequently build up the blocks between (be it Dodge, Douglas, Farnam, Harney, or Leavenworth). Anything north/south was more to do with bus (and now ORBT) expansion.

[Dusty]

I like streetcars but upset how the deal was handled by the city. As community, we need to be making these decisions by voting on them. Instead, we were blind sighted by the decision made in close door meetings by the city. Mutual of Omaha proposed building a new tower and streetcar as a package deal. I have nothing against Mutual of Omaha, but we need to grow the city based on what vision the citizens want. The Jobbers canyon/ ConAgra reference was not about design, but big business deciding what's best for them, which doesn't mean it's best for our transportation plan.

As for the Farnam corridor, I think it competes too much with the BRT on Dodge. It's only 2 blocks away! We need to have these working together instead siphoning riders from each other. I understand we have been pushing this route for 15+ years. There is a lot of history here and I get that. All the studies were to see if Farnam is feasible to support a streetcar. But any street can support a streetcar if you change the land use around the corridor of choice. I just think the whole thing was forced, which upsets so many.

I do believe we are on the same page, but my playbook on routes and execution are different. For me, we need to build a solid transit (bus or streetcar) that is built of three principles: Accessibility, Connectability, and Reliability. Our bus routes/stops need to be just as glamorous as a train design. We need to change the perception of transit. Build a system even the naysayers would be proud to ride even if they don't use it all the time.

I included a few maps of my long range streetcar plan. The streetcars are the structure/bones that help create a strong foundation. The buses/BRT work the inner connections or the muscles supporting the bones. First route is 10th to Leavenworth to 480 to Cuming. There are tons of empty warehouses along this route that could benefit and helps expand the boundaries of downtown.

This would setup to expand by building a mixed use train station on I-480. This will be the main hub. Route 2 expands from 480 to Aksarben Village to 72nd to Maple to pull in Benson. Route 3 is adding a loop to the airport and North Omaha. Possible 4th loop to connect South Omaha. The whole focus is to have a central hub on 480. If you really want to get crazy, you can add high speed rail from the 480 train station along I-80 to Denver, Kansas City, etc.

[skinzfan23]

BRT and a streetcar are 2 totally separate modes of transportation, they are not competing against one another. The streetcar is a slow people mover over a short distance, usually around 3 miles. BRT is designed for quick express service over a longer route. They can work with each other but they are not going to compete in Omaha

[Athomsfere]

I like streetcars but upset how the deal was handled by the city. As community, we need to be making these decisions by voting on them. Instead, we were blind sighted by the decision made in close door meetings by the city. Mutual of Omaha proposed building a new tower and streetcar as a package deal. I have nothing against Mutual of Omaha, but we need to grow the city based on what vision the citizens want. The Jobbers canyon/ ConAgra reference was not about design, but big business deciding what's best for them, which doesn't mean it's best for our transportation plan.

As for the Farnam corridor, I think it competes too much with the BRT on Dodge. It's only 2 blocks away! We need to have these working together instead siphoning riders from each other. I understand we have been pushing this route for 15+ years. There is a lot of history here and I get that. All the studies were to see if Farnam is feasible to support a streetcar. But any street can support a streetcar if you change the land use around the corridor of choice. I just think the whole thing was forced, which upsets so many.

I do believe we are on the same page, but my playbook on routes and execution are different. For me, we need to build a solid transit (bus or streetcar) that is built of three principles: Accessibility, Connectability, and Reliability. Our bus routes/stops need to be just as glamorous as a train design. We need to change the perception of transit. Build a system even the naysayers would be proud to ride even if they don't use it all the time.

I included a few maps of my long range streetcar plan. The streetcars are the structure/bones that help create a strong foundation. The buses/BRT work the inner connections or the muscles supporting the bones. First route is 10th to Leavenworth to 480 to Cuming. There are tons of empty warehouses along this route that could benefit and helps expand the boundaries of downtown.

This would setup to expand by building a mixed use train station on I-480. This will be the main hub. Route 2 expands from 480 to Aksarben Village to 72nd to Maple to pull in Benson. Route 3 is adding a loop to the airport and North Omaha. Possible 4th loop to connect South Omaha. The whole focus is to have a central hub on 480. If you really want to get crazy, you can add high speed rail from the 480 train station along I-80 to Denver, Kansas City, etc.

How would anyone get buy-in for interstate highspeed rail when no one on the route has good local transit yet? I like where your heart is, but I think your reasoning is horribly flawed.

Starting with RT and streetcar not being the same, at all. Especially BRT. Something like Farm West could almost use it's own street car for example, with LRT from village point to Blackstone. As long as we don't build park and rides. LRT to North O, and South O too.
Then maybe we could start working for regional rail to LNK / KC etc.

[Dusty]

BRT and a streetcar are 2 totally separate modes of transportation, they are not competing against one another. The streetcar is a slow people mover over a short distance, usually around 3 miles. BRT is designed for quick express service over a longer route. They can work with each other but they are not going to compete in Omaha

I'm sorry if I may have confused some with my plan. What I want is a light rail system with dedicated transit lanes for it. I'm not opposed to a streetcar, but it makes it a harder sell to the public who are hesitant to ride. Streetcars have to move slower due sharing the road with cars. In time, maybe we will grow to have both visions come to life. My vison is start with a Leavenworth/Cuming light rail circular. Your vision is start with a Farnam street streetcar. in the end, we want the same thing.... improved transit options.

[Dusty]

How would anyone get buy-in for interstate highspeed rail when no one on the route has good local transit yet? I like where your heart is, but I think your reasoning is horribly flawed.

Starting with RT and streetcar not being the same, at all. Especially BRT. Something like Farm West could almost use it's own street car for example, with LRT from village point to Blackstone. As long as we don't build park and rides. LRT to North O, and South O too.
Then maybe we could start working for regional rail to LNK / KC etc.

I'm just saying if you wanted to expand to high speed options in 25-30 years, you have space on 480 to make it work.
Realistically, I don't see the city pursuing that avenue. We all can come up with different plans. We will agree on some ideas and disagree on others. You can't build a big and bold vision unless you are willing to throw it out there. This comes with a lot of backlash and criticism thrown at you. I'm okay with that. I just want Omaha to raise their standards and dream bigger!

I maybe come off against the streetcar, but it's because I feel like we need to do a better job with our buses first.
Baby steps! We are all heading in the same direction.

[Athomsfere]

How would anyone get buy-in for interstate highspeed rail when no one on the route has good local transit yet? I like where your heart is, but I think your reasoning is horribly flawed.

Starting with RT and streetcar not being the same, at all. Especially BRT. Something like Farm West could almost use it's own street car for example, with LRT from village point to Blackstone. As long as we don't build park and rides. LRT to North O, and South O too.
Then maybe we could start working for regional rail to LNK / KC etc.

I'm just saying if you wanted to expand to high speed options in 25-30 years, you have space on 480 to make it work.
Realistically, I don't see the city pursuing that avenue. We all can come up with different plans. We will agree on some ideas and disagree on others. You can't build a big and bold vision unless you are willing to throw it out there. This comes with a lot of backlash and criticism thrown at you. I'm okay with that. I just want Omaha to raise their standards and dream bigger!

I maybe come off against the streetcar, but it's because I feel like we need to do a better job with our buses first.
Baby steps! We are all heading in the same direction.

I think most on this board would agree Omaha needs to do better with transit.

For me, especially around greenways and then trains (streetcar, LRT, maybe someday HSR or commuter rail).

I do think the current streetcar is far better than what we have earned as a city. Something that will help add 30k people to the core over the next 30 years, easily. Even easier when hopefully we see TOD requirement further loosen and bring more families to the route with 1 or less parking spaces per bedroom common Maybe even 1 or less per household.

If you think the streetcar should have had a vote: I promise you a LRT with dedicated ROW, or even a BRT with the same would not have passed. The average Omahan would have said "Why give the bus it's own lane and slow everyone down when the ORBT is empty all the time anyway?"

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Voting negates the planning process. During the planning process the public and stakeholders are given the opportunity to voice their opinions and participate in planning exercises that assist planners and officials in coming up with recommendations. Anyone is welcome to participate, but usually notification and request for involvement goes out to those most heavily impacted stakeholders (in the instance of the streetcar, probably people and businesses within a certain radius of the study area). So it's a bit redundant to put it up to a vote after public input has been received.

Furthermore, if a project goes through the full planning process, which is both expensive and time consuming, and then implementation of the plan is put up for vote, it is nearly certain to get voted down no matter where in the city it is. Things that are perceived to be only benefiting certain neighborhoods (true or otherwise) will get voted down by the city as a whole. As Athomsfere established, voters are selfish. They do not think about someone else's greater good if "their" tax dollars are to be spent on it. You could vote by precinct (kinda like how school bonds are passed), but that establishes a given project as being for that community and not outsiders (just like school districts). And that's not the perception you want for transit projects.

It also sets a precedent. Every major public project, whether it be transit, a park, bike infrastructure, whatever, is then fair game to be put for a vote.

[nebport5]

How would anyone get buy-in for interstate highspeed rail when no one on the route has good local transit yet? I like where your heart is, but I think your reasoning is horribly flawed.

Starting with RT and streetcar not being the same, at all. Especially BRT. Something like Farm West could almost use it's own street car for example, with LRT from village point to Blackstone. As long as we don't build park and rides. LRT to North O, and South O too.
Then maybe we could start working for regional rail to LNK / KC etc.

I'm just saying if you wanted to expand to high speed options in 25-30 years, you have space on 480 to make it work.
Realistically, I don't see the city pursuing that avenue. We all can come up with different plans. We will agree on some ideas and disagree on others. You can't build a big and bold vision unless you are willing to throw it out there. This comes with a lot of backlash and criticism thrown at you. I'm okay with that. I just want Omaha to raise their standards and dream bigger!

I maybe come off against the streetcar, but it's because I feel like we need to do a better job with our buses first.
Baby steps! We are all heading in the same direction.

I think most on this board would agree Omaha needs to do better with transit.

For me, especially around greenways and then trains (streetcar, LRT, maybe someday HSR or commuter rail).

I do think the current streetcar is far better than what we have earned as a city. Something that will help add 30k people to the core over the next 30 years, easily. Even easier when hopefully we see TOD requirement further loosen and bring more families to the route with 1 or less parking spaces per bedroom common Maybe even 1 or less per household.

If you think the streetcar should have had a vote: I promise you a LRT with dedicated ROW, or even a BRT with the same would not have passed. The average Omahan would have said "Why give the bus it's own lane and slow everyone down when the ORBT is empty all the time anyway?"

Yes, and at this point there is a very legitimate argument against any such thing. Even if the numbers said otherwise, many will not give up their Grande Cherokee for mass transit. Traffic around Elkhorn would have to be a nightmare before the majority of West O would support any transit system.

[PWL73316]

The voters already had their say when they elected the mayor and their council member. Every decision doesn't need a plebiscite.

[daveoma]

I agree with Dusty that the ultimate trigger to initiate construction of the streetcar might have been a corrupt bargain from egotistical sociopaths on a board of directors of a powerful company. That being said, the increase in density to generate more tax revenue is something that Omaha must accept to address suburban sprawl and to increase population within the limited space that is Douglas county. All indications are the streetcar will do that.

I think that it's the right thing to do at the right time for the wrong reason. Not a deal with the devil, rather a loan to expand our business to increase revenue.

[Dusty]

I'm not saying we need to vote on every project in a build or deny approach. Any project put up for vote would get rejected with the mindset of "I'm not going to use it, so why should we build it". I agree with you. I'm talking about voting on the vision and big ideas that will shape our city. This falls under the public engagement process.

In the last 10 years, then tone has completely changed in terms of listening to the community. The city doesn't care about our ideas. They treat us with a "Mother knows best" mindset. When we have a meeting to discuss options, we are given a sales pitch on a vision from stakeholders: Farnam St streetcar, Farnam St streetcar, or a Farnam St streetcar. Do you like this plan? I don't really care. We are pushing this though for the stakeholders. The public engagement process has become a publicity stunt for forcing projects through.

As I said, I'm not opposed to the streetcar, but it's not on the top of my list for projects. We should be letting people vote on a variety of urban projects and let them rank them in order. This gives the city feedback on what projects are sparking the most interest. When you go through the study and planning process you will have less opposition because it was the project with the most votes. For example: Improving our current busing system (dedicated lanes, better stations), streetcar on Farnam, Light rail circular around Leavenworth/Cuming, etc.

One city I was super impressed with in terms of public engagement is Tucson, AZ. They post a variety of ideas and post all the comments online so people can keep building up new ideas to help build a city the citizens want.

[ita]

I honestly don't know how this project is being seen as being pushed by MoO or some other stakeholder. It's been thrown around and studied for over a decade before the final decision was made, as others have said. Maybe MoO pushed it over the edge, but even Sthothert wanted it, just didn't want to tax folks to do it. She's been saying that since she ran for her first reelection. The Chamber came up with a funding plan to do just that, and off it went. The city council, which represents the whole of the city of Omaha, approved the plans and financing, with only one dissenting vote. I spoke with a council person recently and they said that people only started contacting their office after they voted on the financing plan and Buffett issuing is public opinion. Before that, for several months, they hardly received any correspondence about it.

Regarding public engagement, it's important. No one will dispute that. How public comment is used is where our opinions differ. I think with planning projects, public engagement is important as to providing additional insight, not the only insight, on how a project should be directed or to help address specific needs, like accessibility. What is the public comment going to do for a planning project that 99% of the public have zero expertise on? If you have 300 people that show up to a meeting to comment on something that affects tens or hundreds of thousands of people, is that a good representation of what the community wants?

You saw this with OMetro's MetroNext initiative. OMetro has the data, expertise, financial information to determine where bus transit would most useful/successful. They already know holes in their service, best practices for transit. They presented fully baked goals and plans and let the public decide what it wanted, what was most important. Unsurprisingly, people didn't prioritize western routes, but wanted more frequent headways and better bus stops on existing routes. Based on the report, there were about 2000 people that submitted comments, either in person or online. There was very little push back on how they handled that 10 year plan that affects a metro of nearly 1 million people. Oh, and since becoming a regional authority, they raised the tax levy unilaterally. Thank goodness I haven't heard any complaints about that.

Regarding the streetcar, and sorry for being a broken record, the Farnam route was chosen because 1) it maximizes potential economic impact of a streetcar route in Omaha and 2) connects most of the major downtown amenities and destinations for downtown dwellers and visitors. HDR is holding a public open house in March at the 15% design stage to talk about stops, locations, etc. Community will help determine those aspects, so I hope many attend.

If we allowed the community to determine specific routes, we would end up with either inefficient or ineffectual service. Public comments on public projects are important, within certain confines of any given project. My opinion only.

[SkyWarrior55]

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2023/02/24 ... d-airport/

I’m all for this. Thoughts?

[Garrett]

It’s a very interesting proposal! It certainly has a lot of potential, and the 19th street alignment is an interesting suggestion especially as you get into North Downtown and Creighton. I have two slight issues with it. One I have is that it doesn’t serve the 24th/Lake district as much as I’d like. Also it seems to be a bit circuitous as an airport route as opposed to a direct route going from 10th street up Abbott Drive, though I I’m not sure what involving Carter Lake in a deal like that might entail.

In an ideal world I’d probably make a line serving North O go through 24th/Lake district and then have it turn on Locust to go to the 16th Locust district, where you could probably make another neighborhood business district out of the historic building stock and empty lots. That’s just a top of my head thought.

But it’s also very exciting how, in the course of a year, we’ve gone from the streetcar being a someday plan to one line about to begin construction and two more very serious proposals. By the end of this decade we could have at least three streetcar lines and have others on the way

[nebport5]

It’s a very interesting proposal! It certainly has a lot of potential, and the 19th street alignment is an interesting suggestion especially as you get into North Downtown and Creighton. I have two slight issues with it. One I have is that it doesn’t serve the 24th/Lake district as much as I’d like. Also it seems to be a bit circuitous as an airport route as opposed to a direct route going from 10th street up Abbott Drive, though I I’m not sure what involving Carter Lake in a deal like that might entail.

In an ideal world I’d probably make a line serving North O go through 24th/Lake district and then have it turn on Locust to go to the 16th Locust district, where you could probably make another neighborhood business district out of the historic building stock and empty lots. That’s just a top of my head thought.

But it’s also very exciting how, in the course of a year, we’ve gone from the streetcar being a someday plan to one line about to begin construction and two more very serious proposals. By the end of this decade we could have at least three streetcar lines and have others on the way

All good points. I have to wonder where he came up with $100 mil? I can't imagine that's a realistic figure. None the less, in a perfect visioning world it would probably be best to have the airport/zoo line be it's own extension and then 24th St line as another extension to serving North and South O. As for 19th as a route, yes certainly Creighton and North Downtown, but also running by the still undeveloped Civic site would be intriguing.

[Garrett]

It’s a very interesting proposal! It certainly has a lot of potential, and the 19th street alignment is an interesting suggestion especially as you get into North Downtown and Creighton. I have two slight issues with it. One I have is that it doesn’t serve the 24th/Lake district as much as I’d like. Also it seems to be a bit circuitous as an airport route as opposed to a direct route going from 10th street up Abbott Drive, though I I’m not sure what involving Carter Lake in a deal like that might entail.

In an ideal world I’d probably make a line serving North O go through 24th/Lake district and then have it turn on Locust to go to the 16th Locust district, where you could probably make another neighborhood business district out of the historic building stock and empty lots. That’s just a top of my head thought.

But it’s also very exciting how, in the course of a year, we’ve gone from the streetcar being a someday plan to one line about to begin construction and two more very serious proposals. By the end of this decade we could have at least three streetcar lines and have others on the way

All good points. I have to wonder where he came up with $100 mil? I can't imagine that's a realistic figure. None the less, in a perfect visioning world it would probably be best to have the airport/zoo line be it's own extension and then 24th St line as another extension to serving North and South O. As for 19th as a route, yes certainly Creighton and North Downtown, but also running by the still undeveloped Civic site would be intriguing.

I think the $100 million is a state contribution and the city would have to make up the rest, perhaps with federal help based on the article. I would bet his line as proposed would still be in the $300-$400 million range as it's about 5 miles long.

Also I plugged in the other extensions shown in the map from the article and this is what we're looking at

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit? ... sp=sharing

[Linkin5]

If this extended route would require federal funding there would be a lot more red tape and would have to go through a lot more hurdles. I like the concept but it would have to be put on the back burner while phase 1 is completed.

[OmahaJaysCU]

Really got to appreciate Senator Wayne. He is not scared to pursue bold ideas.

[PWL73316]

I always assumed that an airport extension would just go up Abbott. But when you look at the map, there is not much there.

Senator Wayne’s proposal makes more sense for a streetcar that is expected to stop a lot and induce investment along its route, and isn’t that much longer. Not much opportunity for that on the way to the airport. Going by Creighton would also serve a fairly large audience, some of which doesn’t have a car already. Same with starting to activate North Omaha. Creighton is also a good part of the nightlife and amenities audience you want to use the streetcar on Farnam.

If I’m not mistaken, public transportation to an airport would put a request for federal money in a different category that might be easier to get.

Ultimately, expanding to the airport is borderline essential if you want to induce visitors to take the streetcar and not rely solely on rental cars, especially if they are going to an event downtown.

[Athomsfere]

I'm happy as long as he doesn't try and hold the primary line hostage. And extension just adds to the viability and health of the city.

Also, I'd prefer it go to 24th and Lake too, and at some point a South O extension would also be awesome.

[Coyote]

Nebraska lawmaker seeks state funding for Omaha streetcar — if it extended north toward airport
City of Omaha voices support for the proposal by State Sen. Justin Wayne, who said he was a streetcar critic

LINCOLN — The controversial Omaha streetcar project could get a $100 million jolt from the State of Nebraska under a plan before the Legislature — that is, if the route were extended into North Omaha and to the airport. A measure presented Friday by State Sen. Justin Wayne of Omaha to the Legislature’s Appropriations Committee asks for the state funds to establish and operate a streetcar that would connect to Eppley Airfield.

Who gets included, and who doesn’t

In effect, Wayne said, his Legislative Bill 477 is a way to put pressure on the City of Omaha to take the $300 million-plus streetcar project through less advantaged areas and to the airport, and also to “set some standards on who gets included and who doesn’t.” “Let me be clear, in the beginning I was opposed to the streetcar,” Wayne said. “This is a compromise for me, personally, to figure out how we can take the current proposed streetcar and make it better and actually work on public transit in the process.” Currently the main streetcar corridor approved by the Omaha City Council and Mayor Jean Stothert takes the planned modern-day streetcar from downtown to midtown along Farnam and Harney Streets. There are a few stretches in the north-south direction as well, along Eighth and 10th Streets downtown. Details of a new northern extension have yet to be hammered out, but two City of Omaha officials spoke in support of the bill and its concept. “An extension will help encourage development over a larger area and connect more people to the jobs in the core and the new North Omaha job centers,” said Steve Jensen, deputy chief of staff for economic development to the mayor. Also speaking in favor was another Omaha economic development aide, Jacqueline Morrison.

Second act

Wayne described his proposal as “Part II” of the Economic Recovery Act the Legislature passed last year as Legislative Bill 1024. That package, called a historic investment into the poorest areas of the state, earmarked $335 million mostly for North and South Omaha. A large chunk, $60 million, is for a future business park near Eppley Airfield. Wayne said his broader idea is for the streetcar route to extend north from Farnam and 19th Streets — and into the future business park he expects will develop near 16th and Locust Streets. He envisions the route continuing toward the airport. Jensen and Morrison agreed, to a degree. “Along with federal funding it (LB 477) would allow the system to extend through the heart of North Omaha and on to the developments created through last year’s LB 1024,” said Jensen. He and Morrison said in an interview after the hearing that it is still uncertain how far north the route could extend even with state and federal funding and tax-increment financing.

[S.O.Boy]

Nebraska lawmaker seeks state funding for Omaha streetcar — if it extended north toward airport
City of Omaha voices support for the proposal by State Sen. Justin Wayne, who said he was a streetcar critic

LINCOLN — The controversial Omaha streetcar project could get a $100 million jolt from the State of Nebraska under a plan before the Legislature — that is, if the route were extended into North Omaha and to the airport. A measure presented Friday by State Sen. Justin Wayne of Omaha to the Legislature’s Appropriations Committee asks for the state funds to establish and operate a streetcar that would connect to Eppley Airfield.

Who gets included, and who doesn’t

In effect, Wayne said, his Legislative Bill 477 is a way to put pressure on the City of Omaha to take the $300 million-plus streetcar project through less advantaged areas and to the airport, and also to “set some standards on who gets included and who doesn’t.” “Let me be clear, in the beginning I was opposed to the streetcar,” Wayne said. “This is a compromise for me, personally, to figure out how we can take the current proposed streetcar and make it better and actually work on public transit in the process.” Currently the main streetcar corridor approved by the Omaha City Council and Mayor Jean Stothert takes the planned modern-day streetcar from downtown to midtown along Farnam and Harney Streets. There are a few stretches in the north-south direction as well, along Eighth and 10th Streets downtown. Details of a new northern extension have yet to be hammered out, but two City of Omaha officials spoke in support of the bill and its concept. “An extension will help encourage development over a larger area and connect more people to the jobs in the core and the new North Omaha job centers,” said Steve Jensen, deputy chief of staff for economic development to the mayor. Also speaking in favor was another Omaha economic development aide, Jacqueline Morrison.

Second act

Wayne described his proposal as “Part II” of the Economic Recovery Act the Legislature passed last year as Legislative Bill 1024. That package, called a historic investment into the poorest areas of the state, earmarked $335 million mostly for North and South Omaha. A large chunk, $60 million, is for a future business park near Eppley Airfield. Wayne said his broader idea is for the streetcar route to extend north from Farnam and 19th Streets — and into the future business park he expects will develop near 16th and Locust Streets. He envisions the route continuing toward the airport. Jensen and Morrison agreed, to a degree. “Along with federal funding it (LB 477) would allow the system to extend through the heart of North Omaha and on to the developments created through last year’s LB 1024,” said Jensen. He and Morrison said in an interview after the hearing that it is still uncertain how far north the route could extend even with state and federal funding and tax-increment financing.

The up side is you could park at old MoO and have free ride to airport and North side would have better access to downtown.

[ita]

It’s a very interesting proposal! It certainly has a lot of potential, and the 19th street alignment is an interesting suggestion especially as you get into North Downtown and Creighton. I have two slight issues with it. One I have is that it doesn’t serve the 24th/Lake district as much as I’d like. Also it seems to be a bit circuitous as an airport route as opposed to a direct route going from 10th street up Abbott Drive, though I I’m not sure what involving Carter Lake in a deal like that might entail.

In an ideal world I’d probably make a line serving North O go through 24th/Lake district and then have it turn on Locust to go to the 16th Locust district, where you could probably make another neighborhood business district out of the historic building stock and empty lots. That’s just a top of my head thought.

But it’s also very exciting how, in the course of a year, we’ve gone from the streetcar being a someday plan to one line about to begin construction and two more very serious proposals. By the end of this decade we could have at least three streetcar lines and have others on the way

CB and North Omaha leaders are on board. CB was already gung ho about the extension; likely already knew about it prior to the announcement. I think Senator Wayne likes the idea more with the Municap study conservatively showing economic viability and the amount of potential investment on the initial route. My concern is that the route proposed is as such to primarily serve the potential industrial project that's Waynes and McKinney's pet project. That $60 million project is supposedly projected to employ 450 people. I think the 19th/16th street is OK as it connects Morrison stadium, Civic Site, and historic Florence Boulevard, which never really had a streetcar, to the mainline, but it also goes through primarily SFH neighborhoods. I am not ignoring the myriad empty lots, but developers are going to want/need larger swaths to make things really happen, unless they start buying out and/or displacing many of those SFH owners and renters. I think 24th is more equipped to handle the type of development a streetcar can provide, and if we want to extend to the project site, they can take Locust.

It's not mentioned in the article, but based on the possible project site, it's an odd, long parcel. Entry to the property might be at 16th and Locust or 16th and Laird-ish area, several blocks away. I have a feeling that he wants the route to go up 16th because the project site will be more north oriented on that site. That's already served by North 16th. Honestly, for 450 employees, I don't think the streetcar should be extended east to 16th and Locust, but that's just me.

Final thought; don't marry this North Omaha route to the airport. That can be served by bus via the more direct Abbott Road way. The modern terminal modernization plan already doesn't account for the streetcar, but a more frequent bus route could be more easily accommodated. The Fort Street western spoke is seems needless to me and doesn't serve that many employers.

[Louie]

Final thought; don't marry this North Omaha route to the airport. That can be served by bus via the more direct Abbott Road way. The modern terminal modernization plan already doesn't account for the streetcar, but a more frequent bus route could be more easily accommodated. The Fort Street western spoke is seems needless to me and doesn't serve that many employers.

If we had a shuttle from the airport to a main downtown hub or 2 every 30 min or so, many would benefit, I'd think.

[Dundeemaha]

CB and North Omaha leaders are on board. CB was already gung ho about the extension; likely already knew about it prior to the announcement. I think Senator Wayne likes the idea more with the Municap study conservatively showing economic viability and the amount of potential investment on the initial route. My concern is that the route proposed is as such to primarily serve the potential industrial project that's Waynes and McKinney's pet project. That $60 million project is supposedly projected to employ 450 people. I think the 19th/16th street is OK as it connects Morrison stadium, Civic Site, and historic Florence Boulevard, which never really had a streetcar, to the mainline, but it also goes through primarily SFH neighborhoods. I am not ignoring the myriad empty lots, but developers are going to want/need larger swaths to make things really happen, unless they start buying out and/or displacing many of those SFH owners and renters. I think 24th is more equipped to handle the type of development a streetcar can provide, and if we want to extend to the project site, they can take Locust.

It's not mentioned in the article, but based on the possible project site, it's an odd, long parcel. Entry to the property might be at 16th and Locust or 16th and Laird-ish area, several blocks away. I have a feeling that he wants the route to go up 16th because the project site will be more north oriented on that site. That's already served by North 16th. Honestly, for 450 employees, I don't think the streetcar should be extended east to 16th and Locust, but that's just me.

Final thought; don't marry this North Omaha route to the airport. That can be served by bus via the more direct Abbott Road way. The modern terminal modernization plan already doesn't account for the streetcar, but a more frequent bus route could be more easily accommodated. The Fort Street western spoke is seems needless to me and doesn't serve that many employers.

I think the reason they're staying East of 24th is that 24th is the primary candidate for the next ORBT line so having it on the same street doesn't make sense.

Going to 16th and Locust is also appealing if the hope is that you can revive that abandoned streetcar business district.

I actually really like the Fort St route to the airport because once it's on a streetcar it is so completely primed for development with completely underdeveloped and massive empty lots. Immediate demand for airport hotels but also if you get some mixed density housing you've got great access to Carter Lake Park.

In order for a streetcar to work for it's goal of causing development I think you have to have anchors that already have high demand. Connecting Creighton/Downtown/Streetcar Line 1 to the Airport is probably the best option for a North route, the second best being Metro CC.

Basically by definition if a streetcar is successful anywhere it will cause displacement, with low incomes and home ownership rates North Omaha residents along the route will be impacted significantly. I am not aware of any mechanism available to Omaha or in Nebraska to alleviate that. It seems like Senators Wayne and McKinney have been effective legislators and I hope they are able to push for something to supplement those impacted.

[ita]

CB and North Omaha leaders are on board. CB was already gung ho about the extension; likely already knew about it prior to the announcement. I think Senator Wayne likes the idea more with the Municap study conservatively showing economic viability and the amount of potential investment on the initial route. My concern is that the route proposed is as such to primarily serve the potential industrial project that's Waynes and McKinney's pet project. That $60 million project is supposedly projected to employ 450 people. I think the 19th/16th street is OK as it connects Morrison stadium, Civic Site, and historic Florence Boulevard, which never really had a streetcar, to the mainline, but it also goes through primarily SFH neighborhoods. I am not ignoring the myriad empty lots, but developers are going to want/need larger swaths to make things really happen, unless they start buying out and/or displacing many of those SFH owners and renters. I think 24th is more equipped to handle the type of development a streetcar can provide, and if we want to extend to the project site, they can take Locust.

It's not mentioned in the article, but based on the possible project site, it's an odd, long parcel. Entry to the property might be at 16th and Locust or 16th and Laird-ish area, several blocks away. I have a feeling that he wants the route to go up 16th because the project site will be more north oriented on that site. That's already served by North 16th. Honestly, for 450 employees, I don't think the streetcar should be extended east to 16th and Locust, but that's just me.

Final thought; don't marry this North Omaha route to the airport. That can be served by bus via the more direct Abbott Road way. The modern terminal modernization plan already doesn't account for the streetcar, but a more frequent bus route could be more easily accommodated. The Fort Street western spoke is seems needless to me and doesn't serve that many employers.

I think the reason they're staying East of 24th is that 24th is the primary candidate for the next ORBT line so having it on the same street doesn't make sense.

Going to 16th and Locust is also appealing if the hope is that you can revive that abandoned streetcar business district.

I actually really like the Fort St route to the airport because once it's on a streetcar it is so completely primed for development with completely underdeveloped and massive empty lots. Immediate demand for airport hotels but also if you get some mixed density housing you've got great access to Carter Lake Park.

In order for a streetcar to work for it's goal of causing development I think you have to have anchors that already have high demand. Connecting Creighton/Downtown/Streetcar Line 1 to the Airport is probably the best option for a North route, the second best being Metro CC.

Basically by definition if a streetcar is successful anywhere it will cause displacement, with low incomes and home ownership rates North Omaha residents along the route will be impacted significantly. I am not aware of any mechanism available to Omaha or in Nebraska to alleviate that. It seems like Senators Wayne and McKinney have been effective legislators and I hope they are able to push for something to supplement those impacted.

Appreciate the response. I took a streetview tour of 16th and Locust and you're right, it's a really nice example of a historic streetcar business district. Has some historic building stock and a decent amount of large empty lots between Ohio and Spencer.

For the Fort Street corridor, I would prefer mixed used with heavy emphasis on residential, versus hotel development because of proximity to Carter Lake, as you say. Also, isn't there a plan recently for a large recreational center/facility at Carter Lake? I think it is somewhere on this north side of the lake on city park land. Another nice thing about the route, looking at it again, is the eastern end of Fort has a decent amount of employers with some land that could be developed for additional industrial/manufacturing use, maybe even office. With the streetcar going to the airport, I guess those large parking lots could be developed too.

I think the article mentioned Wayne working on some companion bill to address affordable housing, possibly along this proposed route.

Well, now you've had me reconsider it and I like this route a lot more. It's a long route though, so I wonder if it's a single or dual track. It's at least 5 miles, so, $500 million based on the initial $300 million 3 mile route? If the state pitches in $100 million, Federal funding could cover a majority. The KC extension got $174 million of the $226 million cost from the Feds.

[GenX]

BRT and a streetcar are 2 totally separate modes of transportation, they are not competing against one another. The streetcar is a slow people mover over a short distance, usually around 3 miles. BRT is designed for quick express service over a longer route. They can work with each other but they are not going to compete in Omaha

I'm sorry if I may have confused some with my plan. What I want is a light rail system with dedicated transit lanes for it. I'm not opposed to a streetcar, but it makes it a harder sell to the public who are hesitant to ride. Streetcars have to move slower due sharing the road with cars. In time, maybe we will grow to have both visions come to life. My vison is start with a Leavenworth/Cuming light rail circular. Your vision is start with a Farnam street streetcar. in the end, we want the same thing.... improved transit options.

We should add Cuming to the expletive list so people spell it right. Farnam also.

[BRoss]

We should add Cuming to the expletive list so people spell it right. Farnam also.

Interesting idea, I added them.

Testing:
Cuming
Farnam

[Garrett]

I’ll add another concern to this being the airport route: it’s not exactly gonna be a quick option. Streetcars aren’t meant to be fast, and I think they average around 7 mph. A 45 minute ride to downtown from the airport would not be appealing imo. An express bus shuttle service, like the Q70 here in nyc, would be a better option.

[Coyote]

Omaha state senator wants streetcar line expanded to Eppley Airfield
State Sen. Justin Wayne wants $100 million more to go to the project.



An Omaha state senator is asking the legislature to kick in $100 million to the streetcar project. The city says the streetcar will pay for itself with a route from midtown to downtown -- meaning because a streetcar boosts the values of what it’s near, a number of businesses will want to build next to it to take advantage of the benefits. Up to now, we’ve seen the route, essentially going down Farnam westbound and Harney eastbound, up 10th Street in the Old Market up to the CHI Health Center, with a loop around there -- while allowing options for expansion. State Sen. Justin Wayne wants the line to extend to the airport, which would go north on 19th Street, over to 16th and up to Fort Street, then straight to Eppley, mostly along neighborhoods.

Remember, the legislature has already committed $400 million in Rescue Plan money to transform North Omaha. Organizers believe this is a logical next step while tying the plan to affordable housing. “First, get public transit into an area that needs it the most,” Wayne said. “Invest in an area that we’ve already said is an economic development goldmine by putting dollars there last year. Three, create a sustainable affordable housing solution because the state can’t continue to pick up the tab.” At least two members of Mayor Stothert’s Economic Development Team also spoke in support of the plan before the appropriations committee Friday afternoon. LB477 would earmark that $100 million from the state to build the streetcar line to Eppley, while also assigning affordable housing benchmarks along the route.

[OmahaJaysCU]

Boy, no question where Brian Mastre stands on all this. My god

[Garrett]

Boy, no question where Brian Mastre stands on all this. My god

He sure did seem heated

[ita]

Just a quick reminder to put it on your calendars, March 7 between 5 and 7 PM, HDR is holding the open house regarding streetcar design, stops, transit integration, and financing. Empire Room at Midtown Crossing.

[PWL73316]

I’ll add another concern to this being the airport route: it’s not exactly gonna be a quick option. Streetcars aren’t meant to be fast, and I think they average around 7 mph. A 45 minute ride to downtown from the airport would not be appealing imo. An express bus shuttle service, like the Q70 here in nyc, would be a better option.

Whynotboth.gif

Airport express bus would make more sense starting much further afield. But there's no reason a streetcar shouldn't go to the airport, especially if the corridor it's going through has the density to support it (and we have a $300 million separate bet that we can make 16th and Locust a successful business park).

[Louie]

Airport express bus would make more sense starting much further afield. But there's no reason a streetcar shouldn't go to the airport, especially if the corridor it's going through has the density to support it (and we have a $300 million separate bet that we can make 16th and Locust a successful business park).

That is a very long time from coming to fruition

[ita]

I’ll add another concern to this being the airport route: it’s not exactly gonna be a quick option. Streetcars aren’t meant to be fast, and I think they average around 7 mph. A 45 minute ride to downtown from the airport would not be appealing imo. An express bus shuttle service, like the Q70 here in nyc, would be a better option.

Whynotboth.gif

Airport express bus would make more sense starting much further afield. But there's no reason a streetcar shouldn't go to the airport, especially if the corridor it's going through has the density to support it (and we have a $300 million separate bet that we can make 16th and Locust a successful business park).

A more frequent route 16, both north and south would be an easy improvement to transit service to Eppley. End to end it's about 30 minutes, with 30 minute headways during morning and evening rush hours. If they could go 20 minutes headways throughout the day, that would be accomplish a lot of what we are talking about here. Maybe even if it was still 30 minute headways, but with service throughout the day, that would be a good test and start. It would be a more feasible option for travelers and help get employees to and from the airport. I am sure they are arriving at all sorts of times with different shifts. One document I just saw while searching put Eppley's on airport employees at 3200 (Can someone confirm that number? It seemed a bit high). That's a huge employer for the metro if that's accurate! Why we don't have better transit just for that purpose has me scratching my head.

https://dot.nebraska.gov/media/115354/omaha_oma.pdf

[PWL73316]

There should absolutely be better public transportation service to Eppley, but running it from 16th Street would be crazy myopic. Basically ORBT-like service from west-east and back is what is needed. An airport trip is one of the few occasions where non-users of transit will strongly consider using transit - but we don't have any real option right now. If it only runs from 16th Street, like 99% of the metro still can't use it without a separate car trip that has them 5-10 minutes from the airport - they will just keep driving.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I'm not sure the proposed streetcar route to the airport would create a great impression for visitors and I think it would take at least 30 years of redevelopment to get it to an acceptable level. Plus, like Garrett said, it'll be quite slow.

A bus is probably a better option for the route currently. Take it down Abbot and terminate somewhere in around the Old Market. In the long-term light rail is a better fit. For those who think the Farnam/Harney Streetcar line should have been a fancy bus, this is probably a better application for that.

That said. Better public transit to North O is necessary.