Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[PWL73316]

I don't know how intentional that image pick was but Glasgow's public transportation is amazing for a city roughly our size. Of course, it helps that they have more people in less than half the space.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I don't know how intentional that image pick was but Glasgow's public transportation is amazing for a city roughly our size. Of course, it helps that they have more people in less than half the space.

I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Glasgow yet but I've experienced many excellent applications of airport express buses. My intention was to find a pic of an airport express bus that was more unique than most to show this could be a great application for fancy buses and Glasgow's were the first I came across.

[ita]

I don't know how intentional that image pick was but Glasgow's public transportation is amazing for a city roughly our size. Of course, it helps that they have more people in less than half the space.

I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Glasgow yet but I've experienced many excellent applications of airport express buses. My intention was to find a pic of an airport express bus that was more unique than most to show this could be a great application for fancy buses and Glasgow's were the first I came across.

When you all reference an airport express bus route, are you talking about something different that Route 16 with better headways/more frequent service? Like something with less stops, only goes to the airport type service? 8th and Farnam to Eppley takes about 20 minutes, per the schedule. People from North Omaha can either connect to that route via the North Transit center or a route that connects to the ORBT or future streetcar line. South Omaha folks can connect directly via 13th or a route that connects to ORBT or future streetcar line. West Omaha suburbanites could do a park and ride somewhere off Dodge or at Westroads, to get into downtown via express and ORBT which intersects with Route 16, but then your car isn't being parked in a secured area (I assume). Anyway, I am just repeating myself again, but we already have a route that, I think, can serve our airport transit needs, just needs more frequency and/or increased service duration.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

When you all reference an airport express bus route, are you talking about something different that Route 16 with better headways/more frequent service? Like something with less stops, only goes to the airport type service? 8th and Farnam to Eppley takes about 20 minutes, per the schedule. People from North Omaha can either connect to that route via the North Transit center or a route that connects to the ORBT or future streetcar line. South Omaha folks can connect directly via 13th or a route that connects to ORBT or future streetcar line. West Omaha suburbanites could do a park and ride somewhere off Dodge or at Westroads, to get into downtown via express and ORBT which intersects with Route 16, but then your car isn't being parked in a secured area (I assume). Anyway, I am just repeating myself again, but we already have a route that, I think, can serve our airport transit needs, just needs more frequency and/or increased service duration.

That's true though I can think of several items that Route 16 bus does currently offer.

First - There's no marketing for Route 16 as an option. It's not easily found on the Eppley website if it even is there, the stop has a little sign posted on a column that no one will see unless they know where to look for it, and I haven't noted anything about the route posted around the terminal. There needs to be much more eye catching, prominent material about it.

Second - By car it's a 12 minute drive, so an express bus saves a few minutes if it's direct.

Third - Airport express buses typically have a space for luggage whereas transit buses often don't. The Route 16 bus would get quite cluttered if not impossible for people to move around if everyone had to store their luggage in the very limited space at their seat and in the aisles.

[GenX]

We should add Cuming to the expletive list so people spell it right. Farnam also.

Interesting idea, I added them.

Testing:
Cuming
Farnam

Thanks Bob!

[mistergutierrez]

When you all reference an airport express bus route, are you talking about something different that Route 16 with better headways/more frequent service? Like something with less stops, only goes to the airport type service? 8th and Farnam to Eppley takes about 20 minutes, per the schedule. People from North Omaha can either connect to that route via the North Transit center or a route that connects to the ORBT or future streetcar line. South Omaha folks can connect directly via 13th or a route that connects to ORBT or future streetcar line. West Omaha suburbanites could do a park and ride somewhere off Dodge or at Westroads, to get into downtown via express and ORBT which intersects with Route 16, but then your car isn't being parked in a secured area (I assume). Anyway, I am just repeating myself again, but we already have a route that, I think, can serve our airport transit needs, just needs more frequency and/or increased service duration.

That's true though I can think of several items that Route 16 bus does currently offer.

First - There's no marketing for Route 16 as an option. It's not easily found on the Eppley website if it even is there, the stop has a little sign posted on a column that no one will see unless they know where to look for it, and I haven't noted anything about the route posted around the terminal. There needs to be much more eye catching, prominent material about it.

Second - By car it's a 12 minute drive, so an express bus saves a few minutes if it's direct.

Third - Airport express buses typically have a space for luggage whereas transit buses often don't. The Route 16 bus would get quite cluttered if not impossible for people to move around if everyone had to store their luggage in the very limited space at their seat and in the aisles.

Route 16 only runs during rush hour, there is not service all day long, neither on Saturdays or Sundays.

That is the first thing that got my attention when I came to Omaha, how do I get to the city? Why there is not public transport between the airport and downtown?

By the way, I lived in Glasgow for three years. Bus service is reliable, but the city of Glasgow has also a circular subway, and a decent network of trains linking the center and the suburbs. Not bad for a city of 100.000 people bigger than Omaha. But that is Europe, the problem with Omaha is that even cities like Tucson have a more decent public transport network than Omaha, they hav a decent bus station downtown for local and regional buses, and their hubs, including the airport are well connected.

[Coyote]

Businesses along proposed route see preliminary Omaha streetcar designs, potential stops




The Omaha streetcar is slowly transitioning from a concept to reality. Designs are falling into place, and business owners along the proposed route are getting a first look at them. Business owners like Rebecca Boylan, who owns The Frame Service at the intersection of 36th and Farnam. Her business has been planted there for 27 years, and Boylan has watched the Blackstone district grow and change during those nearly three decades. She’s looking forward to more change, too.

“My first reaction to even the concept of a streetcar is emotionally positive of course, this is a historic area, and a streetcar is all part of Omaha history, so I thought it was wonderful.” The Omaha Streetcar Authority has been meeting one-on-one with businesses along the route, including 6 News. “They introduced the visuals, what the streetcar stops would look like, how they would travel along the street, on the sides not in the middle,” Boylan says following her meeting with officials. One of the proposed stops on the route is just outside Boylan’s shop.

[skinzfan23]

Good to see some news actually reporting on people who support the streetcar and understand how it works.

[Louie]

Good to see some news actually reporting on people who support the streetcar and understand how it works.

Definitely refreshing. She even mentioned the importance of selling it to the rest of the city.

[omahahawk]

Looking forward to see what comes from the streetcar open house this coming Tuesday. Primarily just wanting to feel like this is still all going to happen.

[Garrett]

Talked to Brandon Garrett, the Chief of Staff for Mayor Walsh's office in CB. They have very ambitious plans for their part of the streetcar, and hope to use it to grow by 50,000 people in their streetcar corridor.

Here's a copy of the presentation he gave me. You'll have to scroll a fair amount to get to the transit portion.

[Louie]

He's hoping to nearly double CB's population? Or concentrate it more along the corridor?

[Garrett]

He's hoping to nearly double CB's population? Or concentrate it more along the corridor?

Both it seems like, based on the documents. The plan also predicts the Omaha metro could add 500,000 people in the next 30 years which is fairly ambitious.

[ita]

He's hoping to nearly double CB's population? Or concentrate it more along the corridor?

Both it seems like, based on the documents. The plan also predicts the Omaha metro could add 500,000 people in the next 30 years which is fairly ambitious.

Thanks for posting. Nice to see that they already have estimates for the streetcar. $70 million on just the bridge is crazy, but seems like it would be worth it for CB. Having the streetcar projected to bring in 20k more people than just the 1st Ave BRT. Another interesting number is the golf course development difference. With a streetcar they are estimating about 10k residents at the Dodge Park redevelopment. That's an incredible amount of density and much more than I was previously estimating based on current density in the city of Omaha. If my math is correct, and please someone correct me if I am wrong, but the golf course is 146 acres. That's .22 sq. mi. If they anticipate 10k people living there with a streetcar, that's 45k people/SQ. MI.? Is that right? That rivals and betters many Tokyo wards. That would be insanely dense. Maybe I am interpreting the data incorrectly.

[Louie]

He's hoping to nearly double CB's population? Or concentrate it more along the corridor?

Both it seems like, based on the documents. The plan also predicts the Omaha metro could add 500,000 people in the next 30 years which is fairly ambitious.

That would be pretty cool if it comes true, but yeah I’d say 250k is more likely.

[Omaha Cowboy]

He's hoping to nearly double CB's population? Or concentrate it more along the corridor?

Both it seems like, based on the documents. The plan also predicts the Omaha metro could add 500,000 people in the next 30 years which is fairly ambitious.

That would be pretty cool if it comes true, but yeah I’d say 250k is more likely.

At Omaha’s current growth rate, that number would equate to a bit over 300k more in population growth over the next 30 years. Frankly, it would be disappointing (to me at least) if the number was less than that. The Omaha metro added 103,000 people from 2010 to 2020. Projecting that out with its current 12% growth rate, Omaha would add approximately 315,000 or so over the next 30 years. A number like 250,000 (for example) would mean growth slowed from our current metro growth rate. Hence my disappointment..Especially considering the potential this streetcar line, NExT etc should bring..

Omaha adding amenities like the streetcar, and the development on both sides of the river it can potentially spur, would likely enhance the current 12% growth rate perhaps into that 15-18% range; which would not put adding 500k to our current metro population over the next 30 years out of the question..

And thanks for posting this report Garrett. Great stuff …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Athomsfere]

Even over the last 30 years, we have averaged about 12.56% per decade. So compound that, and the metro should be around 1.55 million in 2060 and just under 1.4 in 2050.

I also would not be surprised if we saw some acceleration in the coming decades. IMO Omaha has no peers regionally. Our "aspiration peers" like KC or OKC are sprawling and lack that je ne sais quoi that brought me to Omaha. You'd have to go to a much larger city like Minneapolis, Chicago, or Seattle for your daily life to have that same city vibe.

And I do think CB has a ton to offer, if only the city would steer the ship into the storm. Hopping on the street car could be that catalyst. Why would someone who wanted to live in a city choose West O, Bellevue, Elk Horn etc. when CB would get you downtown and to the shops easier and with better transit?

And, to double in size CB only needs to attract about 12% of the population growth over that 30 years. I'd say it's very doable.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Even over the last 30 years, we have averaged about 12.56% per decade. So compound that, and the metro should be around 1.55 million in 2060 and just under 1.4 in 2050.

I also would not be surprised if we saw some acceleration in the coming decades.

And I do think CB has a ton to offer
And, to double in size CB only needs to attract about 12% of the population growth over that 30 years. I'd say it's very doable.

Agreed..

One of the keys to accommodate accelerated growth in the coming years, is the Omaha metro must (absolutely must) increase its new affordable/starter housing stock…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Stargazer]

I'm somewhat fearful of the people tonight's open house may bring.

[Athomsfere]

I'm somewhat fearful of the people tonight's open house may bring.

Me too, but hopefully the format is similar to the last shift Omaha meeting, or just a show and tell with notecards for suggestions.

[Athomsfere]

Even over the last 30 years, we have averaged about 12.56% per decade. So compound that, and the metro should be around 1.55 million in 2060 and just under 1.4 in 2050.

I also would not be surprised if we saw some acceleration in the coming decades.

And I do think CB has a ton to offer
And, to double in size CB only needs to attract about 12% of the population growth over that 30 years. I'd say it's very doable.

Agreed..

One of the keys to accommodate accelerated growth in the coming years, is the Omaha metro must (absolutely must) increase its new affordable/starter housing stock…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

I think affordable housing is the trickiest of problems by far.

It seems to me to be that like homelessness: Housing first is the solution. Just build as much as you can and hope for a minor recession to balance it out.

Any other approach, has much better optics, but it appears a higher risk of it backfiring.

It's stuff like this that worries me when we talk about "affordable housing".

Tom Means and Ed Stringham also measured the effects of inclusionary zoning in California. They found that jurisdictions with inclusionary zoning saw their housing supply reduced by 7 percent and prices increased by 20 percent due to the policy.

Which comes from this article:
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/201 ... le-housing

And there is a lot to grok there (some positive), but I remember another study on Denver and raising prices about 4%.

The only all around idea I've come up with is to capture some of TIF (when it's dues) and donating it to not-for-profits that build affordable housing. Take the incentive off of the developer to game the system who are required to build X percent to be affordable, and just raise prices across the board to cover the difference. But I see risk there too, of course.

[TransitOriented]

100% low floor please

[skinzfan23]

At the open house right now, it’s completely packed and from what I can tell everyone is for the streetcar!

[skinzfan23]

[skip]

Went to the open house. Quickly realized how many people are supporting this project! Lots of helpful people there providing information to anyone who had a question. Hopefully any attendee who had doubts with the streetcar was properly informed tonight.

[Coyote]

BREAKING: Omaha gets first look at streetcar design, proposed stops

[Coyote]

Omaha streetcar project organizers release potential route stops, designs
There are 22 total stops along the route planned, and public input could change some of them



Omaha streetcar project organizers held an open house for the community Tuesday evening to share the latest elements and designs. The biggest features revealed are the potential stops along the route that are being considered and what the streetcar itself will look like based on design samples. Putting a streetcar together is not as fast as making a sandwich, but for Liz Rosholm, the owner of Get Real Sandwiches in Blackstone, the project could be just as tasty for business.

"I think it would broaden it tremendously, just from people that are ... like you said, it goes downtown and comes all the way through. I think that it'll just bring a lot of exposure," she said. Benefits for shops and restaurants are just a few things among the Omaha Streetcar Authority's pitch for the project. Organizers say public input will play a role in what the system will be. There are 22 total stops along the route planned, and public input could change some of them.

[almighty_tuna]

22 stops is an absolute |expletive|-ton. Doing some back of the napkin math here, even if you figure ten stops one way along the stretch of Farnam from 10th to 42nd, approx 12,144ft, that's one stop every 1,200ft, or approx 1/5mi, or 2.5 blocks. I mean, I know it's an economic development tool, less a method to get from A -> B expediently, but oof.

Still glad it's moving forward though and really nice to see the news interview a local business owner who is excited about the project instead of some Karen who can't get her morning latte b/c 168th is closed.

[damonhynes]

Explain this to me: What will a streetcar do that a bus won't? What will a streetcar do that a battery-powered bus can't? Thanks.

[TransitOriented]

Stadler has full low-floor.
Brookville is not fully low floor, but looks to have some battery powered/assisted options.

I cant see what the bottom two are.


OKC uses Brookville for their tram.

[TransitOriented]

Explain this to me: What will a streetcar do that a bus won't? What will a streetcar do that a battery-powered bus can't? Thanks.

It's a permanent system. The bus route can get cancelled or moved to a different street at any time. Why would I spend a 100 million on an apartment building next to a bus station that could be removed on a whim?

[ita]

Explain this to me: What will a streetcar do that a bus won't? What will a streetcar do that a battery-powered bus can't? Thanks.

It's a permanent system. The bus route can get cancelled or moved to a different street at any time. Why would I spend a 100 million on an apartment building next to a bus station that could be removed on a whim?

I would imagine lenders consider proximity to a rail stop vs bus stop differently as well.

Also, pro tip tonight: read the Facebook comments with empathy.

[Athomsfere]

I walked away loving where this is going even more!




I especially love that they ended up with something where we might keep the dedicated bike lane!

[Omaha Cowboy]

Even over the last 30 years, we have averaged about 12.56% per decade. So compound that, and the metro should be around 1.55 million in 2060 and just under 1.4 in 2050.

I also would not be surprised if we saw some acceleration in the coming decades.

And I do think CB has a ton to offer
And, to double in size CB only needs to attract about 12% of the population growth over that 30 years. I'd say it's very doable.

Agreed..

One of the keys to accommodate accelerated growth in the coming years, is the Omaha metro must (absolutely must) increase its new affordable/starter housing stock…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

I think affordable housing is the trickiest of problems by far.

It seems to me to be that like homelessness: Housing first is the solution. Just build as much as you can and hope for a minor recession to balance it out.

Any other approach, has much better optics, but it appears a higher risk of it backfiring.

It is very tricky. But prior to 2013/2014, Metro Omaha was tooling along and building “affordable” starter homes in that $200-300k Price range..then Hearthside Homes (who was the primary builder of these homes in metro Omaha at the time) filed for bankruptcy, and over the last 9 or 10 years, no builder has really picked up the slack. This city and metro NEEDS a major influx of new “starter” homes in that $200k price range to accommodate the new population growth expected from new amenities/developments like the streetcar, the nearly 9000 jobs the NExT project will bring over the next 5-7 years etc etc..

Same thing goes for affordable places for folks who need, or prefer to rent..

On both fronts, Omaha really needs to step up over the next several years..

And as a note, it’s great to hear, from those who attended the Open House, that the place was packed, and there was overwhelming support for the streetcar plan..Folks who read the anti Omaha rants on toxic places like Reddit Omaha or on Facebook really need to keep perspective..as most of those folks, largely and unfortunately, remain mostly uninformed and overly emotional…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[strangerthings]

Explain this to me: What will a streetcar do that a bus won't? What will a streetcar do that a battery-powered bus can't? Thanks.

Drive development

[Athomsfere]

Actually, a few more things I wanted to add.

Overall, the mood seemed to be 90% positive and excited. I overheard one gentleman even saying "We have no right, as a city the size of Omaha to get anything this good". And that was closer to what I heard in most of my eavesdropping.

I did hear one older lady complaining.

Also, for those curious, the current preference on vehicles is low floor.

[Athomsfere]

Explain this to me: What will a streetcar do that a bus won't? What will a streetcar do that a battery-powered bus can't? Thanks.

Drive development

And ridership confidence.

[PWL73316]

This city and metro NEEDS a major influx of new “starter” homes in that $200k price range to accommodate the new population growth

I mean that's just not going to happen at a market rate. Zillow says my first house near 60th and Grover, built in 1955 with a one car garage and an unfinished block basement, with a tiny yard and significantly smaller than any new development starter home, is worth $250,000.

Just build housing that costs however much and the benefits will accrue to everyone else when someone moves in there. Repeat that 100,000 times and all of a sudden housing prices are reasonable.

[skinzfan23]

Agree $200k homes aren’t really possible. Most new homes right now are at least $250k unfortunately.

There is still Celebrity and new to the market is DR Horton, who is the largest builder of homes in the country. They have begun building in Sarpy county in the last 1-2 years.

[Omaha Cowboy]

This city and metro NEEDS a major influx of new “starter” homes in that $200k price range to accommodate the new population growth

I mean that's just not going to happen at a market rate. Zillow says my first house near 60th and Grover, built in 1955 with a one car garage and an unfinished block basement, with a tiny yard and significantly smaller than any new development starter home, is worth $250,000.

First time buyers typically can’t afford homes over $300k..Which is why I stated new housing stock needs to be more readily available in the $200-300k range to help accommodate projected new population growth.. Metro Omaha, the last 10 years, is surprising devoid of this new stock.. Smaller Des Moines Iowa continues to replenish this stock, over the last 10 years, much better than Omaha..Why is that?..

It’s not going to happen? It HAS to happen imo…

Ciao..LiO…Peace