Is Omaha's urban footprint unusually small?

[edsas2]

Looking at Google maps, Omaha's urban footprint looks out of proportion compared to its population:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6863942 ... 7769,8.38z

Just eyeballing it, Omaha looks about 50% smaller than Des Moines (but has a 40% larger population). Omaha looks about 1/4 the size of Kansas City, but is actually 1/2 the population. And about 1/6 the size of Minneapolis, but is 1/3 the population.

What's up with that? Is Omaha's urban footprint just that much more dense than its neighbors? Traveling through the Des Moines urban area, I do get a sense that Omaha feels more dense. But to have a smaller overall footprint? It doesn't seem that much denser. Going to Kansas City, the outskirts of the metro do seem to have large patches of undeveloped land. But, again, to be 4 times bigger than Omaha's footprint, but with only twice the people?

Has anybody else noticed this? People who aren't familiar these cities looking at Google Maps would rightfully assume Des Moines is larger and that KC and Minneapolis are much, much larger. But they would be wrong. Just kind of a funny anomaly, I guess.

[almighty_tuna]

Of those cities you mentioned, Omaha has the highest urban density and second overall density (Minneapolis) according to Wikipedia. In fact, Omaha's density is significantly higher than DM and KC.

[Athomsfere]

Yep, Omaha has surprisingly good density. KC's is terrible. One of the worst major metros. OKC is even worse.

Oddly, some of our closest cities by density are MUCH larger. Dallas and Houston are closer in average density to us, than we are to DSM, KC etc..

[riceweb]

Omaha does really well with infill. Helps that there are no mountains, rivers, lakes, etc. cutting through the middle of the city, but nevertheless, urban density is one area where we're an outlier among peer cities.

And we will probably remain an outlier for some time. Even though suburban sprawl will still continue through Sarpy County for the foreseeable future, the city has effectively hit its western edge at the Elkhorn River floodplain. And growth to the north has always seemed stunted, perhaps it's too costly to build the necessary infrastructure up that way?

The only big "activator" of future sprawl IMO is the "mega site" / big lake area near Ashland. That has the potential to highly disrupt the real estate market in both Omaha and Lincoln and usher in a new era of sprawl.

[Athomsfere]

I think with what Omaha is starting to do with transit and the 20/30/30 plan is really going to increase density. I wouldn't even be surprised if we see 2030 close to 4k / square mile with the infill already underway and the upward swing we saw before TOD, the streetcar, ADUs etc. were started.

[almighty_tuna]

I sure hope so. It's easy to lay back and let disorganized growth happen on a whim. Keeping that density up with quality infill and the infra that goes with it....that's the hard part. But it's definitely the right way.

[Athomsfere]

Also, Lincoln.

Lincoln is fairly dense too. A lot of that likely comes from being a college town, but still.

Compared to DSM: Lincoln is significantly larger for the city proper (~214k DSM vs !290k LKN), both have about the same land area, and LNK is a little over 3.1k / sq mile.

(Looking at Wikipedia / World Population Review)

DSM, Lincoln, Omaha all put KC's density to shame.

[ita]

Also, Lincoln.

Lincoln is fairly dense too. A lot of that likely comes from being a college town, but still.

Compared to DSM: Lincoln is significantly larger for the city proper (~214k DSM vs !290k LKN), both have about the same land area, and LNK is a little over 3.1k / sq mile.

(Looking at Wikipedia / World Population Review)

DSM, Lincoln, Omaha all put KC's density to shame.

Our skyline and downtown has some catching up to do though. I digress. Like you mentioned though, I hope the City is able to achieve and surpass the 20/30/30 goal for the urban core. It would be nice to see census tracts throughout the urban core get to at least 10k/sq. mi. density. More services, more retail, more people and families downtown.

[Athomsfere]

Also, Lincoln.

Lincoln is fairly dense too. A lot of that likely comes from being a college town, but still.

Compared to DSM: Lincoln is significantly larger for the city proper (~214k DSM vs !290k LKN), both have about the same land area, and LNK is a little over 3.1k / sq mile.

(Looking at Wikipedia / World Population Review)

DSM, Lincoln, Omaha all put KC's density to shame.

Our skyline and downtown has some catching up to do though. I digress. Like you mentioned though, I hope the City is able to achieve and surpass the 20/30/30 goal for the urban core. It would be nice to see census tracts throughout the urban core get to at least 10k/sq. mi. density. More services, more retail, more people and families downtown.

Agreed.

Do you mean across the city average density? Because that's currently probably outside my lifetime lol.

At our average growth over the last 30 years, that would be 2110 (90 years). Without the area growing.

But if we could get all the MSA growth into the city... I think we could cut that in half.

But, I would also be very happy if we got North O, South O, Downtown, Midtown all over 10 - 15k.

[edsas2]

I work for the Omaha Film Festival and every year we get about 30 to 40 filmmakers from out of town. Most of them come from LA and New York, but we also get people from all over -- Seattle, Texas, Florida etc. The festival happens at Aksarben Cinema so their exposure to the city tends to be Eppley -> through north downtown -> and then either 480 to 80 and up 72nd to Aksarben Village or down Dodge through Midtown and over to Aksarben Village. I can't tell you how many times I've heard -- without prompting -- that Omaha is not at all what they expected. Many of them are surprised by the urban feel and the energetic vibe of the city. The overall preconception is that Omaha would be a flat suburby kind of place. Anyway, I credit the density of Omaha's urban area for providing that sense.

[skinzfan23]

Thanks for the input....always glad to hear what visitors to the area think.

I always get the same reception of Omaha from co-workers that travel here from LA too. They all think its going to flat and cows and corn.

Just a few weeks ago, one supervisor here for the first time was blown away by all that Aksarben Village has to offer. It was a little strange because he kept stating that he couldn't believe there were residences right above offices and pizza places (I kept thinking....have you never been to any city before) He resides in the LA area and the office is in Newport Beach.

Overall he was completely in love with what Omaha had to offer and all within walking distance to the office in Omaha.

[Louie]

Omaha east of 72nd (and especially east of saddlecreek) has a much more urban feel than I think many would expect.

[Athomsfere]

Omaha east of 72nd (and especially east of saddlecreek) has a much more urban feel than I think many would expect.

It's why I picked Omaha when I moved here and rebooted my career. Well, 90% of it at least.

[ricko]

Omaha east of 72nd (and especially east of saddlecreek) has a much more urban feel than I think many would expect.

It's why I picked Omaha when I moved here and rebooted my career. Well, 90% of it at least.

I did some quick math——in 1960, Omaha had an urban density of around 6,300 per square mile. It’s around 3,400 now.

[Louie]

Omaha east of 72nd (and especially east of saddlecreek) has a much more urban feel than I think many would expect.

It's why I picked Omaha when I moved here and rebooted my career. Well, 90% of it at least.

I did some quick math——in 1960, Omaha had an urban density of around 6,300 per square mile. It’s around 3,400 now.

Hence the major density divide at 72nd

[Omaha Cowboy]

I work for the Omaha Film Festival and every year we get about 30 to 40 filmmakers from out of town. Most of them come from LA and New York, but we also get people from all over -- Seattle, Texas, Florida etc. The festival happens at Aksarben Cinema so their exposure to the city tends to be Eppley -> through north downtown -> and then either 480 to 80 and up 72nd to Aksarben Village or down Dodge through Midtown and over to Aksarben Village. I can't tell you how many times I've heard -- without prompting -- that Omaha is not at all what they expected. Many of them are surprised by the urban feel and the energetic vibe of the city. The overall preconception is that Omaha would be a flat suburby kind of place. Anyway, I credit the density of Omaha's urban area for providing that sense.

These observations are much appreciated. Last week we hosted a co worker- in town for the week- who had never visited Omaha (she is from and lives in Michigan).. Suffice it to say, she was very impressed..and also impressed with the quality of our restaurant scene..

Omaha usually never fails to impress outsiders who have never visited the city/metro…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Cermak]

Omaha does well with density especially from Saddlecreek to I-480 between Leavenworth and Cuming. With MofO tower being built and the 9 story apartment building in Blackstone these will both help to make Omaha feel even more dense. Omaha is in a good spot right now, lots of momentum in the city.

[Athomsfere]

I work for the Omaha Film Festival and every year we get about 30 to 40 filmmakers from out of town. Most of them come from LA and New York, but we also get people from all over -- Seattle, Texas, Florida etc. The festival happens at Aksarben Cinema so their exposure to the city tends to be Eppley -> through north downtown -> and then either 480 to 80 and up 72nd to Aksarben Village or down Dodge through Midtown and over to Aksarben Village. I can't tell you how many times I've heard -- without prompting -- that Omaha is not at all what they expected. Many of them are surprised by the urban feel and the energetic vibe of the city. The overall preconception is that Omaha would be a flat suburby kind of place. Anyway, I credit the density of Omaha's urban area for providing that sense.

These observations are much appreciated. Last week we hosted a co worker- in town for the week- who had never visited Omaha (she is from and lives in Michigan).. Suffice it to say, she was very impressed..and also impressed with the quality of our restaurant scene..

Omaha usually never fails to impress outsiders who have never visited the city/metro…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

We brought in 40-50 people a few years ago from KC and Minneapolis for an event... We never left the core, and everyone just loved Omaha. The responses were basically "Who knew Nebraska had such an awesome city", or "Why is Omaha so cool".

Not verbatim, it's been like 5 years now. But as a transplant myself I don't think you can do much better in NA than Omaha. If we can built decent transit and greenways and do some other small, but great changes like lane diets on Dodge... We'd have one of the top cities on the continent IMO.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I work for the Omaha Film Festival and every year we get about 30 to 40 filmmakers from out of town. Most of them come from LA and New York, but we also get people from all over -- Seattle, Texas, Florida etc. The festival happens at Aksarben Cinema so their exposure to the city tends to be Eppley -> through north downtown -> and then either 480 to 80 and up 72nd to Aksarben Village or down Dodge through Midtown and over to Aksarben Village. I can't tell you how many times I've heard -- without prompting -- that Omaha is not at all what they expected. Many of them are surprised by the urban feel and the energetic vibe of the city. The overall preconception is that Omaha would be a flat suburby kind of place. Anyway, I credit the density of Omaha's urban area for providing that sense.

These observations are much appreciated. Last week we hosted a co worker- in town for the week- who had never visited Omaha (she is from and lives in Michigan).. Suffice it to say, she was very impressed..and also impressed with the quality of our restaurant scene..

Omaha usually never fails to impress outsiders who have never visited the city/metro…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

We brought in 40-50 people a few years ago from KC and Minneapolis for an event... We never left the core, and everyone just loved Omaha. The responses were basically "Who knew Nebraska had such an awesome city", or "Why is Omaha so cool".

Not verbatim, it's been like 5 years now. But as a transplant myself I don't think you can do much better in NA than Omaha. If we can built decent transit and greenways and do some other small, but great changes like lane diets on Dodge... We'd have one of the top cities on the continent IMO.

Right there with you on that.. And really, Omaha never fails to impress. It’s the Omaha natives who post in toxic places like Omaha Reddit who think “any place has to be better than Omaha”. Of course, they’re very much mistaken, and probably lack maturity as well.. …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Athomsfere]

I work for the Omaha Film Festival and every year we get about 30 to 40 filmmakers from out of town. Most of them come from LA and New York, but we also get people from all over -- Seattle, Texas, Florida etc. The festival happens at Aksarben Cinema so their exposure to the city tends to be Eppley -> through north downtown -> and then either 480 to 80 and up 72nd to Aksarben Village or down Dodge through Midtown and over to Aksarben Village. I can't tell you how many times I've heard -- without prompting -- that Omaha is not at all what they expected. Many of them are surprised by the urban feel and the energetic vibe of the city. The overall preconception is that Omaha would be a flat suburby kind of place. Anyway, I credit the density of Omaha's urban area for providing that sense.

These observations are much appreciated. Last week we hosted a co worker- in town for the week- who had never visited Omaha (she is from and lives in Michigan).. Suffice it to say, she was very impressed..and also impressed with the quality of our restaurant scene..

Omaha usually never fails to impress outsiders who have never visited the city/metro…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

We brought in 40-50 people a few years ago from KC and Minneapolis for an event... We never left the core, and everyone just loved Omaha. The responses were basically "Who knew Nebraska had such an awesome city", or "Why is Omaha so cool".

Not verbatim, it's been like 5 years now. But as a transplant myself I don't think you can do much better in NA than Omaha. If we can built decent transit and greenways and do some other small, but great changes like lane diets on Dodge... We'd have one of the top cities on the continent IMO.

Right there with you on that.. And really, Omaha never fails to impress. It’s the Omaha natives who post in toxic places like Omaha Reddit who think “any place has to be better than Omaha”. Of course, they’re very much mistaken, and probably lack maturity as well.. …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

Hey, I lack maturity too! Or at least I try...

[nativeomahan]

And I can be quite immature for my age!

[Omaha Cowboy]

Lol..

Don’t let the Omaha Reddit page compromise your maturity …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[guy4omaha]

Our skyline and downtown has some catching up to do though. I digress. Like you mentioned though, I hope the City is able to achieve and surpass the 20/30/30 goal for the urban core. It would be nice to see census tracts throughout the urban core get to at least 10k/sq. mi. density. More services, more retail, more people and families downtown.

Regarding downtown in general I would say over the years my sentiment tends mirror yours. But, I believe Omahans in general, myself included, can get overly critical of our downtown. Over the years, I have hosted or overheard “out-of-town” visitors who marvel at our downtown. And sometimes I don’t fully get it.

A few weeks ago I bumped into the downtown population stats on wikipedia for a regional city and was shocked at how low the numbers were. I then moved to downtown Omaha’s wikipedia page and was shocked at how much higher the numbers were.

Intrigued, I gathered the following comparisons from wikipedia. I have no idea if these are accurate. But the numbers made me pause on several levels. Some cities did not have density numbers.

Downtown populations
Omaha: 10,334 (2010) 14,353 /sq mile
Kansas City: 28,000 (2010) 4,495/sq mile
Tulsa: 4,000 (2010) 2,857/sq mile
Oklahoma City: 7,933 (2020) 4,219/sq mile
St. Louis: 5,442 (2020) 5,400/sq mile
Wichita: 1,514 (2016)
Des Moines: 5,431 (2010)
Milwaukee: 26,710 (2020) 10,641/sq mile
Louisville: 4,700 (2015)
Cincinnati: 5,838 (2020) 5,957/sq mile
St. Paul: 7,911 (2014) 7,800/sq mile
New Orleans: 2,060 (2010) 1700/sq mile
Pittsburgh: 5,477 (2020) 8,557/sq mile
Albuquerque: 1,237 (2010) 3,092/sq mile

[skinzfan23]

Wow if those numbers are accurate, that would be amazing. I do feel like Des Moines prob has more than Omaha at least for now.

[Louie]

Wow if those numbers are accurate, that would be amazing. I do feel like Des Moines prob has more than Omaha at least for now.

I found a resource here (point2homes.com) and it's probably a little more accurate with regards to the difference between Des Moines and Omaha.

Des Moines - 9,117: https://www.point2homes.com/US/Neighbor ... phics.html

Omaha - 11,570: https://www.point2homes.com/US/Neighbor ... phics.html

[Athomsfere]

Wow if those numbers are accurate, that would be amazing. I do feel like Des Moines prob has more than Omaha at least for now.

More? More what?

I always feel like DSM puts out a great first impression. Has good bike routes, but overall... Omaha has always had way more of everything that matters.

[Louie]

Wow if those numbers are accurate, that would be amazing. I do feel like Des Moines prob has more than Omaha at least for now.

More? More what?

I always feel like DSM puts out a great first impression. Has good bike routes, but overall... Omaha has always had way more of everything that matters.

Agreed.

[skinzfan23]

Wow if those numbers are accurate, that would be amazing. I do feel like Des Moines prob has more than Omaha at least for now.

More? More what?

I always feel like DSM puts out a great first impression. Has good bike routes, but overall... Omaha has always had way more of everything that matters.

I just assumed they have a larger downtown population, maybe that was just the downtown workforce (although that is probably shrinking a lot too with Wells Fargo selling all their downtown buildings and moving to W. Des Moines)

[Athomsfere]

Wow if those numbers are accurate, that would be amazing. I do feel like Des Moines prob has more than Omaha at least for now.

More? More what?

I always feel like DSM puts out a great first impression. Has good bike routes, but overall... Omaha has always had way more of everything that matters.

I just assumed they have a larger downtown population, maybe that was just the downtown workforce (although that is probably shrinking a lot too with Wells Fargo selling all their downtown buildings and moving to W. Des Moines)

I mean the quote above puts them at just below us. A higher percentage of their city / metro though.

But whenever I've wandered downtown it's felt a little dead to me. But at least they have a downtown Hy-Vee.

[Athomsfere]

It's possible that Omaha's urban footprint is more densely populated than its neighbors, which could account for its smaller size compared to cities with larger footprints but smaller populations. It's also worth noting that the way Google Maps displays urban areas can sometimes be misleading, so it's important to consider other factors like population density and city limits when comparing cities.

I mean, the two go hand in hand. More density means a smaller foot print.
A smaller foot print for two cities of the same size, means more density.

[Cermak]

I was looking at this Rand McNally map the other day and to me Omaha looks bigger than Des Moines. This is the 2023 Rand McNally road atlas. Omaha definitely seems to sprawl more to the west than DM.

[Louie]

I was looking at this Rand McNally map the other day and to me Omaha looks bigger than Des Moines. This is the 2023 Rand McNally road atlas. Omaha definitely seems to sprawl more to the west than DM.

Google Maps is a way better indicator than the shaded urban area on Rand McNally maps lol

[BRoss]

Google Maps is a way better indicator than the shaded urban area on Rand McNally maps lol

One thing I've noticed about the shaded area in Google Maps is that it shrinks when you reach a certain zoom. It covers the developed area well when closer, but when you get a certain ways out, it stops the shading around 180th Street. On my PC, this happens between the time the labels for Waterloo and Chalco show up/disappear.

I just checked this out with DSM and they don't have such a discrepancy.

So we are kind of getting shafted from Google Maps. Not sure why we have such a difference zoomed out.

[skinzfan23]

I was looking at this Rand McNally map the other day and to me Omaha looks bigger than Des Moines. This is the 2023 Rand McNally road atlas. Omaha definitely seems to sprawl more to the west than DM.

Love it, this is how I always used to look at cities on trips when I was growing up.

[Louie]

Google Maps is a way better indicator than the shaded urban area on Rand McNally maps lol

One thing I've noticed about the shaded area in Google Maps is that it shrinks when you reach a certain zoom. It covers the developed area well when closer, but when you get a certain ways out, it stops the shading around 180th Street. On my PC, this happens between the time the labels for Waterloo and Chalco show up/disappear.

I just checked this out with DSM and they don't have such a discrepancy.

So we are kind of getting shafted from Google Maps. Not sure why we have such a difference zoomed out.

I was speaking more specifically about the satellite view, not the default.