Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[Louie]

People who don't understand things always think everything is a conspiracy.

Good point.

[Athomsfere]

Really, the fact that Omaha has some of the best architecture, engineering, and construction firms in the nation should be a point of pride, IMO.

And if a company prefers a company who is a national leader over just the cheapest... Sometimes that makes sense from an RFP standpoint to, in my experience at least. Far less risk.

[thenewguy]

Holy tinfoil hat Batman.

dude, you don't even know the half of it. All the experts chimed in almost immediately with their "yeah that's what i was thinking!"s and "i'm paranoid, too!"s

it never ceases to amaze me how annoying some people on reddit are. they made sure to bring up pot holes, too.

[Garrett]

Holy tinfoil hat Batman.

dude, you don't even know the half of it. All the experts chimed in almost immediately with their "yeah that's what i was thinking!"s and "i'm paranoid, too!"s

it never ceases to amaze me how annoying some people on reddit are. they made sure to bring up pot holes, too.

I made a comment debunking the whole thing but of course the main comment is still "Just what I thought!"

People really love conspiracies.

[Athomsfere]

At least my comment managed to get some love. And I'm pretty sure I know who you are over there...

[Dusty]

Do any modern streetcars pull a bike cart? I saw this picture of light rail with a bike storage cart.

[Omaha Cowboy]

This crapola was posted on Omaha Reddit- What should we expect? This is yet another example of why, a couple of years back, I suggested that those of us who post here and also there- monitor that site for its blatant anti-Omaha toxicity..

That rOmaha page now has over 67,000 subscribers and is visited by many more from outside of the Omaha metro.. The sh!t posted there needs to be monitored for it’s BS content and corrected as much as possible…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Flyer14]

I think the Omaha reddit brings up some great points for people who only just got engaged in the last few months. Maybe not that last specific post, but with just a little effort they could really see the years of history behind it all. But its much easier to take to social media and rant. What a time to be alive!

[Athomsfere]

I think the Omaha reddit brings up some great points for people who only just got engaged in the last few months. Maybe not that last specific post, but with just a little effort they could really see the years of history behind it all. But its much easier to take to social media and rant. What a time to be alive!

Most of what I have seen as far as Reddit and transit is: American anti-transitism 101.

Although, it has come a long way in the last 5 years too.

[Renovator2559]

Do any modern streetcars pull a bike cart? I saw this picture of light rail with a bike storage cart.

Why would we need a bike trailer like this, where most strettcars contain bike racks inside passenger carts, so that bikes are not exposed to the elements outside

[Renovator2559]

With the completion of the i29 highway system, I wonder how the streetcar line extension to CB, would cross this barrier.

[almighty_tuna]

Well, you've got three choices and one guess: over, under, or through.

[Dusty]

Do any modern streetcars pull a bike cart? I saw this picture of light rail with a bike storage cart.

Why would we need a bike trailer like this, where most strettcars contain bike racks inside passenger carts, so that bikes are not exposed to the elements outside

My thought is you add this on during peak times. It's important not to turn away paying passengers because the space is filled up with a few bicycles. Also, it could be used during events when downtown is super busy like the College World Series.
You can throw the bikes and strollers on the trailer and max out the trains with people.

[Renovator2559]

Do any modern streetcars pull a bike cart? I saw this picture of light rail with a bike storage cart.

Why would we need a bike trailer like this, where most strettcars contain bike racks inside passenger carts, so that bikes are not exposed to the elements outside

My thought is you add this on during peak times. It's important not to turn away paying passengers because the space is filled up with a few bicycles. Also, it could be used during events when downtown is super busy like the College World Series.
You can throw the bikes and strollers on the trailer and max out the trains with people.

On the other streetcars that I have been on, even if the bike rack inside a passenger cart takes space, people still will ride the seatless area. Afterall we are talking about a few minutes ride, rather than say a 45 minute long lightrail ride in Phoenix Arizona.

Also if the bike trailer does not cost much, or impede the function of the streetcar based on the track layouts, radii through Omaha, or take away a passenger cart; then the bike trailer may not be a bad idea.

[Coyote]

Another step for Omaha's streetcar:
Officials plan to hire private company, unveil regulations for federal sign-off
Streetcar officials continue to deliberate whether the streetcar will debut in winter 2026 or spring 2027



Officials in charge of the Omaha streetcar project continue to progress in making it a reality. The Omaha Streetcar Authority passed a resolution to hire a private company with prior streetcar experience, which will be hired to help the city implements its system. "Experience matters in all things," said Jay Noddle, the president of the Omaha Streetcar Authority. "And certainly, when it comes to the operation of a system that hasn't existed before, we don't have the expertise here in Omaha today."

Noddle says officials will develop a request for proposal, issuing it in late summer or early fall. Interim president Rick Gustafson says this will help set up operations. Another official described this will help contract day-to-day workers, like conductors and mechanics. OSA members say cities like Kansas City and Milwaukee operate in the same manner.

[thenewguy]

seems like there's a lot left to do if they are going to hit a late 2026 deadline. To install the tracks, is there the need to remove roadway and replace it with the rails and new concrete, or is it as simple as creating channels for track to be laid? Just seems like 3 to 3.5 years isn't going to be enough time...

[ita]

seems like there's a lot left to do if they are going to hit a late 2026 deadline. To install the tracks, is there the need to remove roadway and replace it with the rails and new concrete, or is it as simple as creating channels for track to be laid? Just seems like 3 to 3.5 years isn't going to be enough time...

If you look at the timeline in the official website (https://omahastreetcar.org/), the projected begin operation is the end of 2026 and they are thinking a summer 2024 to spring 2026, so about 2 years of actual construction. Looking at some photos of streetcar construction in KC, it looks like they try to minimize street tear up. Looks like the KC timeline was similar, about 2 years.

[Renovator2559]

seems like there's a lot left to do if they are going to hit a late 2026 deadline. To install the tracks, is there the need to remove roadway and replace it with the rails and new concrete, or is it as simple as creating channels for track to be laid? Just seems like 3 to 3.5 years isn't going to be enough time...

And how about the landscape park on top of i480, that includes combining Farnam, Harney and Douglas bridges?

[TitosBuritoBarn]

seems like there's a lot left to do if they are going to hit a late 2026 deadline. To install the tracks, is there the need to remove roadway and replace it with the rails and new concrete, or is it as simple as creating channels for track to be laid? Just seems like 3 to 3.5 years isn't going to be enough time...

And how about the landscape park on top of i480, that includes combining Farnam, Harney and Douglas bridges?

That cap would go a long way toward mending the barrier issues created by I-480. I'm glad they are thinking about this.

[ita]

seems like there's a lot left to do if they are going to hit a late 2026 deadline. To install the tracks, is there the need to remove roadway and replace it with the rails and new concrete, or is it as simple as creating channels for track to be laid? Just seems like 3 to 3.5 years isn't going to be enough time...

And how about the landscape park on top of i480, that includes combining Farnam, Harney and Douglas bridges?

From what I've read/heard, that's far away yet, unfortunately.

[Dusty]

And how about the landscape park on top of i480, that includes combining Farnam, Harney and Douglas bridges?

From what I've read/heard, that's far away yet, unfortunately.

Good! I think the park over 480 is lame and underwhelming.
I will continue to push my vision for a transit center/riverwalk concept.

[Renovator2559]

And how about the landscape park on top of i480, that includes combining Farnam, Harney and Douglas bridges?

From what I've read/heard, that's far away yet, unfortunately.

Good! I think the park over 480 is lame and underwhelming.
I will continue to push my vision for a transit center/riverwalk concept.

How is the park lame? Its a pedestrian easy flow from midtown crossing into downtown.

As for the transit center/riverwalk concept. What is that really about? What benefits does it bring in connecting both midtown and downtown?

[Athomsfere]

And how about the landscape park on top of i480, that includes combining Farnam, Harney and Douglas bridges?

From what I've read/heard, that's far away yet, unfortunately.

Good! I think the park over 480 is lame and underwhelming.
I will continue to push my vision for a transit center/riverwalk concept.

How is the park lame? Its a pedestrian easy flow from midtown crossing into downtown.

As for the transit center/riverwalk concept. What is that really about? What benefits does it bring in connecting both midtown and downtown?

I don't think he really meant lame. As much as it has potential to be a lot more (Arguably).

[Dusty]

Good! I think the park over 480 is lame and underwhelming.
I will continue to push my vision for a transit center/riverwalk concept.

How is the park lame? Its a pedestrian easy flow from midtown crossing into downtown.

As for the transit center/riverwalk concept. What is that really about? What benefits does it bring in connecting both midtown and downtown?

I don't think he really meant lame. As much as it has potential to be a lot more (Arguably).

I feel like if you gave 10 planners (or We Don't Coast leaders) a month to come up with some interesting designs, we got the plan that was whipped together in 5-10 minutes. It's underwhelming and dull, which is pretty much the definition of lame. There is nothing tranquil about sitting on bench smelling exhaust and hearing constant roar and booms from the traffic below. I sold my house which faced I-480. The interstate creates a bit of an echo chamber. That sound channels up the hill and magnifies the sound. Based on the design, there will be nothing to dampen the sound.

As Athomsfere mentions...so much potential to do so much more. Does anyone have recommendations for a 3D modeling software? I would love to build my transit center/riverwalk idea into pictures so I can pitch it to city leaders.

@Rennovator2559-
In a nutshell... A long and skinny transit center (like an airport concourse) would be built from Harney to Dodge. It would accommodate the Streetcar and BRT lines. Set the stage for expansion for light rail along 75 to airport and/or South Omaha/Bellevue. Adding more streetcar lines from Cuming and Leavenworth to tie into it. Long term bike parking and Travel/tourist center to get around the urban core without a car.

Riverwalk would be right next to it. From Martha to Harney. Would pull both sides back together. Creates a tourist attraction for visitors. Adding millions of dollars of new development of hotels, restaurants, residences. Would create stormwater runoff from Hanscom Park area, which gets flooded. Also, pays homage to the 1898 Omaha World Fair (long canal with buildings around it)

[TitosBuritoBarn]

It’s not really supposed to be anything more than a cheap concept drawing at this point. It costs a lot of time and money to fully design and engineer something out like a highway cap or a highway tear down or what have you. This is to get feedback and then they figure out specifics later.

[Dusty]

It’s not really supposed to be anything more than a cheap concept drawing at this point. It costs a lot of time and money to fully design and engineer something out like a highway cap or a highway tear down or what have you. This is to get feedback and then they figure out specifics later.

I understand design details and planning take time and money. But if we never speak up and suggest our ideas or visions, then we are always stuck with the original concept. During the planning process some of these elements will change, but overall concept remains. I don't like the idea of an under-utilized park over 480. You can like it all you want, but I think we should be aiming much higher. This is why I asked for suggestions for a 3D program so I could make my "cheap concept drawing." I want to sell a different concept to leaders, chamber, citizens, etc.

[Renovator2559]

Good! I think the park over 480 is lame and underwhelming.
I will continue to push my vision for a transit center/riverwalk concept.

How is the park lame? Its a pedestrian easy flow from midtown crossing into downtown.

As for the transit center/riverwalk concept. What is that really about? What benefits does it bring in connecting both midtown and downtown?

I don't think he really meant lame. As much as it has potential to be a lot more (Arguably).

I feel like if you gave 10 planners (or We Don't Coast leaders) a month to come up with some interesting designs, we got the plan that was whipped together in 5-10 minutes. It's underwhelming and dull, which is pretty much the definition of lame. There is nothing tranquil about sitting on bench smelling exhaust and hearing constant roar and booms from the traffic below. I sold my house which faced I-480. The interstate creates a bit of an echo chamber. That sound channels up the hill and magnifies the sound. Based on the design, there will be nothing to dampen the sound.

As Athomsfere mentions...so much potential to do so much more. Does anyone have recommendations for a 3D modeling software? I would love to build my transit center/riverwalk idea into pictures so I can pitch it to city leaders.

@Rennovator2559-
In a nutshell... A long and skinny transit center (like an airport concourse) would be built from Harney to Dodge. It would accommodate the Streetcar and BRT lines. Set the stage for expansion for light rail along 75 to airport and/or South Omaha/Bellevue. Adding more streetcar lines from Cuming and Leavenworth to tie into it. Long term bike parking and Travel/tourist center to get around the urban core without a car.

Riverwalk would be right next to it. From Martha to Harney. Would pull both sides back together. Creates a tourist attraction for visitors. Adding millions of dollars of new development of hotels, restaurants, residences. Would create stormwater runoff from Hanscom Park area, which gets flooded. Also, pays homage to the 1898 Omaha World Fair (long canal with buildings around it)

The future streetcar line will be on 30th street and the BRT line will also be on 24, there is no point of installing a BRT line through this area. Doing so would require the entire 20 year transit map to be reconfigured.

Also, the main prerogative is to bridge Midtown with downtown, increase pedestrian access.

Installing a transit center would cost too much for yet an underdeveloped transit network, our transit network is not yet mature to warrant a costly facility and a riverwalk concept, which sounds too expensive as an en devour.

Of course who wouldn't sell their house along i480, most houses along i480 are made of thin materials that are not designed to protect against traffic noise. The Atlas apartment complex is right next to the interchange and from my visits there, its whisper quiet do to proper materials used.

I live in Midtown crossing and the park feature is so far the best idea that does not cost too much and is sufficient to both provide a crossing and a greenspace for the the soon to be future density planned in the area, we are going to need more greenspace than Turner Park. Believe me this park feature with the wide pedestrian/streetline promenade will get plenty of use by the future new living spaces.

There is no point investing a fortune of tax payer funds in a transit center at this early stage, when other parts of downtown and surrounding neighborhoods could better use expansion of the BRT lines or streetcar lines.

if in the very far future, our transit network is mature, then this park feature could be reconfigured to be a transit center; till then its a premature waste of tax money.

[Athomsfere]

Installing a transit center would cost too much for yet an underdeveloped transit network, our transit network is not yet mature to warrant a costly facility and a riverwalk concept, which sounds too expensive as an en devour.

We really have to stop throwing decent transit out when we wouldn't apply that same scrutiny to bad projects.

Dodge Expressway: $54 million
Lincoln Beltway: $352 million

I don't see nearly enough opposition to when those were floated and proposed. Despite encouraging the wrong kind of development carrying the single least efficient types of transit/ transport.

I'm not sure Dusty's idea makes sense entirely, but for other reasons. But at least it's dreaming in the right direction and if it somehow it worked out, would be a lot more useful and sustainable per dollar spent than what we have been doing.

[Renovator2559]

Installing a transit center would cost too much for yet an underdeveloped transit network, our transit network is not yet mature to warrant a costly facility and a riverwalk concept, which sounds too expensive as an en devour.

We really have to stop throwing decent transit out when we wouldn't apply that same scrutiny to bad projects.

Dodge Expressway: $54 million
Lincoln Beltway: $352 million

I don't see nearly enough opposition to when those were floated and proposed. Despite encouraging the wrong kind of development carrying the single least efficient types of transit/ transport.

I'm not sure Dusty's idea makes sense entirely, but for other reasons. But at least it's dreaming in the right direction and if it somehow it worked out, would be a lot more useful and sustainable per dollar spent than what we have been doing.

I agree Dodge expressway is an abomination and an expensive project, I cringe whenever I have to pass through all the congested traffic mess in that area.

As for the Lincoln beltway, I know it's expensive but I think the target here are the transportation of goods.

As I said, that is a good idea he has on the transit center but it's still too early to implement, as we are barely installing the first streetcar line

[Athomsfere]

I agree Dodge expressway is an abomination and an expensive project, I cringe whenever I have to pass through all the congested traffic mess in that area.

As for the Lincoln beltway, I know it's expensive but I think the target here are the transportation of goods.

As I said, that is a good idea he has on the transit center but it's still too early to implement, as we are barely installing the first streetcar line

I wasn't really wanting to dig into timing. Just to get the cost argument tossed.

The US always has reasons to not invest in transit. The city is built for the car, no one rides the busses, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's too hilly, it's too early...

At some point though, we need to just jump in. And I think a transit hub isn't a terrible place to start. Let it have terminals for busses and the BRT. Let it be an expansion of MTC so that riders can grab groceries before hopping back on the transit. Let it provide cover for hot days or days where the snow blows sideways.

Just leave a little flexibility to add trains later.

[Dusty]

I agree Dodge expressway is an abomination and an expensive project, I cringe whenever I have to pass through all the congested traffic mess in that area.

As for the Lincoln beltway, I know it's expensive but I think the target here are the transportation of goods.

As I said, that is a good idea he has on the transit center but it's still too early to implement, as we are barely installing the first streetcar line

I wasn't really wanting to dig into timing. Just to get the cost argument tossed.

The US always has reasons to not invest in transit. The city is built for the car, no one rides the busses, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's too hilly, it's too early...

At some point though, we need to just jump in. And I think a transit hub isn't a terrible place to start. Let it have terminals for busses and the BRT. Let it be an expansion of MTC so that riders can grab groceries before hopping back on the transit. Let it provide cover for hot days or days where the snow blows sideways.

Just leave a little flexibility to add trains later.

The 480 Lid/park project is a long term concept the Chamber of Commerce came up with. It's a concept, not a done deal. That's why I suggested mine. It's a totally different direction. Not saying a transit center is being built tomorrow. If you want a strong transit network, then you build a long term vision and start laying the groundwork to get there. People will be more supportive of the streetcar if they can see the big picture of where it's going in 20-30 years.

I'm just painting a transit oriented concept. Feasibility/design studies could hash out the technicalities. I'm also on the notion that we just need to jump in and build it to change people's perception of mobility outside of the car.

Also, the transit center and riverwalk concepts are two separate ideas. You could build them independently without the other. Both work on mending the two sides together as one unified area.

[Busguy2010]

Transit centers are typically placed 15-30 (transit) minutes apart. Downtown is a transit center itself in essence. I don't think a transit center would make sense over 480, being so close to Downtown. Metro used to have the Midtown transit center at 44th & Douglas, and that too proved to ultimately not make sense, as the direction of transit in Omaha ended up being streamlined routes, less stops, more on street transfers, and crosstown routes. I remember riding the 2 from Downtown out to Crossroads transit center. I have a scedule ftom 2004, and as scheduled, it took 17 minutes from 8th & Farnam to Midtown TC, 29 minutes to Crossroads TC, and 42 minutes to Westroads TC.
That seems ridiculously slow now, because through ORBT, streamlining the route, eliminating stops, and using on street connections, they reduced those travel times to 13, 23, and 34 minutes, respectively. A transit center here would just be an unnecessary and redundant stop.

[Renovator2559]

Transit centers are typically placed 15-30 (transit) minutes apart. Downtown is a transit center itself in essence. I don't think a transit center would make sense over 480, being so close to Downtown. Metro used to have the Midtown transit center at 44th & Douglas, and that too proved to ultimately not make sense, as the direction of transit in Omaha ended up being streamlined routes, less stops, more on street transfers, and crosstown routes. I remember riding the 2 from Downtown out to Crossroads transit center. I have a scedule ftom 2004, and as scheduled, it took 17 minutes from 8th & Farnam to Midtown TC, 29 minutes to Crossroads TC, and 42 minutes to Westroads TC.
That seems ridiculously slow now, because through ORBT, streamlining the route, eliminating stops, and using on street connections, they reduced those travel times to 13, 23, and 34 minutes, respectively. A transit center here would just be an unnecessary and redundant stop.

In theory, the 72nd-Dodge intersection area would be more ideal for a transit center, do to how that area is central to Omaha, that area is stroad mess of parking lots and wide roads of speeding cars and grey and more grey; which make that area hostile at the moment for pedestrians and the adding yet another lane to dodge and Cass, makes it difficult to envision a success in a public transit hub in the area.

Also, until density in the area is implemented, there is no reason to reduce a lane to allow for better public transit in the area or of a transit hub.

Still, I like the overall improvements ORBT is doing in reducing transit times to get to west side and doing its part to reduce traffic congestion out west.

[Dusty]

@Busguy2010- Yes, I remember the old network. I called it the spaghetti network. It was an awful network. I have full intentions of maximizing the use of the grid network.

I think many are getting tripped up over the term "transit center". This is not intended for standard buses. It's more of a mutl-modal train station. It would only handle the streetcar, light rail, and BRT. It would work by creating a few corridors as express lanes for transit. This gets people from West Omaha to the 480 station fast. These corridors would be upgraded to BRT and have dedicated bus lanes.

These express lanes are:
Dodge (Already BRT)
Center-Saddle Creek-Leavenworth
Maple-NW Radial-Cuming

Interstate 75 would become a light rail line. Going North would connect to North Omaha and Airport. Going South would connect to South Omaha and Bellevue.

Leavenworth and Cuming are flexible on options. A study would help us determine the right mode. Options could be: BRT the whole corridor, combo plan of streetcar East of 480 and BRT West of station, etc

We would still have standard buses running the secondary corridors along the grid to help feed into the express lanes of the city. The whole point is the create a junction for people to get across the city without a car. Tons of combinations here:
*West Omaha resident jumps on BRT on 144th Maple, gets off at 480 station, switches modes to goes to Bellevue via 75 rail.
*West Omaha resident jumps on BRT on 120th and Center. gets off at 480 station, switches mode to Airport.
*Out of state traveler jumps on 75 rail from airport to 480 station. From here they can go to downtown, Aksarben Village, Crossroads, Blackstone, Benson, etc.

Many of the spaghetti/wiggle worm routes would be eliminated. You can relocate those buses by adding more West Omaha lines along the grid like: 144th and 168th. This network becomes stronger and stronger. Later you can add BRT express lines down L Street and 370 to dump into the 75 rail line. I could keep going, but I think you get the idea.

I added some pictures to help show the potential. I left certain lines off because the map was getting crowded: 24th St BRT, 10th Streetcar to zoo, Streetcar along Leavenworth to Elmwood Park, etc. Mostly wanted to show how these main corridors are tying into the station. I marked blue lines as BRT, Red lines as streetcar, and green lines as Light rail. In these illustrations I made Leavenworth/Cuming a streetcar loop East of 480, but BRT West of station.

[Renovator2559]

Now that your draft is more clear and the level of detail, I like the concept you are presenting, we probably also need to take into account Council bluffs but other than that, there's plenty of space in i480 to accommodate such a platform.

Are there real city examples of a transit hubs built on top or on the side of a highway like i480?
Also, would the transit hub serve as a barrier between midtown and downtown? Or would the transit hub enhance the pedestrian access between midtown and downtown as well?

[Louie]

Wow, that is a great vision, actually. Simple in a perfect way.

[GenX]

This thread is getting way off topic

[Dusty]

Eric,
I created a new thread to pull this conversation over there. This way this thread is back to updates on the streetcar itself.

I480 Transit Station- Long Term Vision

[GenX]

Eric,
I created a new thread to pull this conversation over there. This way this thread is back to updates on the streetcar itself.

I480 Transit Station- Long Term Vision

Thanks!!

[thenewguy]

the 'fun' factor of the streetcar was being discussed in the 'at what point are upgrades needed' thread and I will say that while we want this to be used as a real/viable addition to the transportation fabric, it is also something that will be used by out of towners as something to do while in Omaha. During the time KC opened their streetcar, we were down there visiting family. We had a few hours to kill between things, so we were going to get a bite to eat and see union station/crown center. We went down, parked, found the line and took the kids on it- it was their first time ever being on such a thing, and they were beyond amazed. We enjoyed it a lot, too. We got off at union station and took the street car back to our car after we walked around. The street car was for utility, sure, but it also made for a level of fun that would have otherwise just us being in the car, bitching about trying to find somewhere to park