Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[Zephyr]

From what I understand, the latest proposed operating hours would be:

Mondays-Thursdays: 6 AM-midnight
Fridays: 6 AM-2 AM
Saturdays: 7 AM-2 AM
Sundays/Holidays: 7 AM-midnight

The service would operate at 10-minute frequencies most of day, but start and end at 15/20-minute frequencies.

[Louie]

Oh that’s much better than what was in the original pamphlets.

[thenewguy]

are the streetcars automated or will they have an operator on board? Not sure if automation is even possible, but it seems like something that may help to keep it on schedule?

[Dusty]

From what I understand, the latest proposed operating hours would be:

Mondays-Thursdays: 6 AM-midnight
Fridays: 6 AM-2 AM
Saturdays: 7 AM-2 AM
Sundays/Holidays: 7 AM-midnight

The service would operate at 10-minute frequencies most of day, but start and end at 15/20-minute frequencies.

This is great! The nice thing is it will create a need to expand bus hours for the routes that are near the streetcar. This increases mobility options outside of the streetcar line when going home. As bus hours are expanded, it will bring in more people to the area to ride the streetcar. They are working together to increase ridership.

[Garrett]

From what I understand, the latest proposed operating hours would be:

Mondays-Thursdays: 6 AM-midnight
Fridays: 6 AM-2 AM
Saturdays: 7 AM-2 AM
Sundays/Holidays: 7 AM-midnight

The service would operate at 10-minute frequencies most of day, but start and end at 15/20-minute frequencies.

Great frequency and late night operations. I feel like someone should change your title to "Streetcar Czar" for all the inside info you can hopefully give haha

[TransitOriented]

From what I understand, the latest proposed operating hours would be:

Mondays-Thursdays: 6 AM-midnight
Fridays: 6 AM-2 AM
Saturdays: 7 AM-2 AM
Sundays/Holidays: 7 AM-midnight

The service would operate at 10-minute frequencies most of day, but start and end at 15/20-minute frequencies.

Great frequency and late night operations. I feel like someone should change your title to "Streetcar Czar" for all the inside info you can hopefully give haha

I was under the impression that nothing had actually been decided at this point. I don't have the patience to read all the pages in this thread or read all the minutes at https://www.cityofomaha.org/omaha-streetcar

Has anything actually been set yet? Rolling stock, path, exact station locations, the stations themselves, etc?

[Garrett]

From what I understand, the latest proposed operating hours would be:

Mondays-Thursdays: 6 AM-midnight
Fridays: 6 AM-2 AM
Saturdays: 7 AM-2 AM
Sundays/Holidays: 7 AM-midnight

The service would operate at 10-minute frequencies most of day, but start and end at 15/20-minute frequencies.

Great frequency and late night operations. I feel like someone should change your title to "Streetcar Czar" for all the inside info you can hopefully give haha

I was under the impression that nothing had actually been decided at this point. I don't have the patience to read all the pages in this thread or read all the minutes at https://www.cityofomaha.org/omaha-streetcar

Has anything actually been set yet? Rolling stock, path, exact station locations, the stations themselves, etc?

Zephyr just moved back to town from Denver, where he worked with the RTD, to work on the streetcar. He probably knows more than what's publicly available.

[Athomsfere]

From what I understand, the latest proposed operating hours would be:

Mondays-Thursdays: 6 AM-midnight
Fridays: 6 AM-2 AM
Saturdays: 7 AM-2 AM
Sundays/Holidays: 7 AM-midnight

The service would operate at 10-minute frequencies most of day, but start and end at 15/20-minute frequencies.

Great frequency and late night operations. I feel like someone should change your title to "Streetcar Czar" for all the inside info you can hopefully give haha

I was under the impression that nothing had actually been decided at this point. I don't have the patience to read all the pages in this thread or read all the minutes at https://www.cityofomaha.org/omaha-streetcar

Has anything actually been set yet? Rolling stock, path, exact station locations, the stations themselves, etc?

Zephyr just moved back to town from Denver, where he worked with the RTD, to work on the streetcar. He probably knows more than what's publicly available.

Yep. The finalized plans should be right around the corner officially. I imagine those working on this basically know at this point though.

[TransitOriented]

The carriages better be 100% low floor.

[Dusty]

The Omaha Streetcar Authority’s board of directors adopted a policy Monday limiting which board members can talk with news media.

The board also adopted a policy setting rules on public testimony at its meetings.

“Only the Board Chairperson and Executive Officer of the OSA may speak to members of the media on behalf of OSA,” the media policy states.

The policies were adopted 6-0.

Jay Noddle said that as board president, he will be the media contact for now.

Noddle said the president “should be the source so that we don’t have other team members talking independently to the media. The media should know who to call, and then when there is a permanent director of the Streetcar Authority, that contact point should shift.”

In the OWH today. Do they not trust all the board members? Maybe some are better at public speaking.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

The Omaha Streetcar Authority’s board of directors adopted a policy Monday limiting which board members can talk with news media.

The board also adopted a policy setting rules on public testimony at its meetings.

“Only the Board Chairperson and Executive Officer of the OSA may speak to members of the media on behalf of OSA,” the media policy states.

The policies were adopted 6-0.

Jay Noddle said that as board president, he will be the media contact for now.

Noddle said the president “should be the source so that we don’t have other team members talking independently to the media. The media should know who to call, and then when there is a permanent director of the Streetcar Authority, that contact point should shift.”

In the OWH today. Do they not trust all the board members? Maybe some are better at public speaking.

I assume it's just to standardize things and keep messaging consistent, it's probably a good idea on a project this large.

[Brad]

The Omaha Streetcar Authority’s board of directors adopted a policy Monday limiting which board members can talk with news media.

The board also adopted a policy setting rules on public testimony at its meetings.

“Only the Board Chairperson and Executive Officer of the OSA may speak to members of the media on behalf of OSA,” the media policy states.

The policies were adopted 6-0.

Jay Noddle said that as board president, he will be the media contact for now.

Noddle said the president “should be the source so that we don’t have other team members talking independently to the media. The media should know who to call, and then when there is a permanent director of the Streetcar Authority, that contact point should shift.”

In the OWH today. Do they not trust all the board members? Maybe some are better at public speaking.

I assume it's just to standardize things and keep messaging consistent, it's probably a good idea on a project this large.

This is a fairly standard policy at most businesses.

[Renovator2559]

Ever wonder why Omaha and many cities lost their streetcar networks? Excerpt..

"[This study] focuses on three powerful automobile companies which eliminated competition among themselves, secured control over rival bus and rail industries, and then maximized profits by substituting cars and trucks for trains, streetcars, subways and buses. In short, it describes how General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler reshaped American ground transportation to serve corporate wants instead of social needs. This is not a study of malevolent or rapacious executives. Rather, it maintains that as a result of their monopolistic structure the Big Three automakers have acted in a manner detrimental to the public interest. . . .

G.M. has both the power and the economic incentive to maximize profits by suppressing rail and bus transportation. The economics are obvious: one bus can eliminate 35 automobiles; one streetcar, subway or rail transit vehicle can supplant 50 passenger cars; one train can displace 1,000 cars or a fleet of 150 cargo-laden trucks. The result was inevitable: a drive by G.M. to sell cars and trucks by displacing rail and bus systems. This section [of the report] describes that process. It discloses, for example, G.M.'s role in the destruction of more than 100 electric surface rail systems in 45 cities including New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, St. Louis, Oakland, Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. More specifically, it describes the devastating impact of this widescale operation on the quality of life in America's cities. . . .

General Motors' common control of auto, truck, and locomotive production may have contributed to the decline of America's railroads. Beginning in the mid-1930s, this firm used its leverage as the Nation's largest shipper of freight to coerce railroads into scrapping their equipment, including pollution-free electric locomotives, in favor of more expensive, less durable, and less efficient G.M. diesel units. As a consequence, dieselization seriously impaired the ability of railroads to compete with the cars and trucks G.M. was fundamentally interested in selling."

"orange groves, and clean, ocean-enriched air. It was served then by the world's largest interurban electric railway system. The Pacific Electric system branched out from Los Angeles for a radius of more than 75 miles reaching north to San Fernando, east to San Bernardino, and south to Santa Ana. Its 3,000 quiet, pollution-free, electric trains annually transported 80 million people throughout the sprawling region's 56 separately incorporated cites. Contrary to popular belief, the Pacific Electric, not the automobile, was responsible for the area's geographical development. First constructed in 1911, it established traditions of suburban living long before the automobile had arrived.

In 1938, General Motors and Standard Oil of California organized Pacific City Lines (P.C.L.) as an affiliate of N.C.L. to motorize west coast electric railways. The following year P.C.L. acquired, scrapped, and substituted bus lines for three northern California electric rail systems in Fresno, San Jose, and Stockton. . . . [In 1940] P.C.L. began to acquire and scrap portions of the $100 million Pacific Electric system including rail lines from Los Angeles to Glendale, Burbank, Pasadena, and San Bernardino. Subsequently, in December 1944, another N.C.L. affiliate (American City Lines) was financed by G.M. and Standard Oil to motorize downtown Los Angeles. At the time, the Pacific Electric shared downtown Los Angeles trackage with a local electric streetcar company, the Los Angeles Railway. American City Lines purchased the local system, scrapped its electric transit cars, tore down its power transmission lines, ripped up the tracks, and placed G.M. diesel buses fueled by Standard Oil on Los Angeles' crowded streets. In sum, G.M. and its auto-industrial allies severed Los Angeles' regional rail links and then motorized its downtown heart.

Motorization drastically altered the quality of life in southern California. Today, Los Angeles is an ecological wasteland: The palm trees are dying from petrochemical smog; the orange groves have been paved over by 300 miles of freeways; the air is a septic tank into which 4 million cars, half of them built by General Motors, pump 13,000 tons of pollutants daily. With the destruction of the efficient Pacific Electric rail system, Los Angeles may have lost its best hope for rapid rail transit and a smog-free metropolitan area. . . .

In April of [1949], a Chicago Federal jury convicted G.M. of having criminally conspired with Standard Oil of California, Firestone Tire and others to replace electric transportation with gas- or diesel-powered buses and to monopolize the sale of buses and related products to local transportation companies throughout the country. The court imposed a sanction of $5,000 on G.M. . . . The court fined Grossman [the treasurer of G.M. and director of P.C.L.] the magnanimous sum of $1. . . . Despite its criminal conviction, General Motors continued to acquire and dieselize electric transit properties through September of 1955. By then, approximately 88 percent of the nation's electric streetcar network had been eliminated. In 1936, when G.M. organized National City Lines, 40,000 streetcars were operating in the United States; at the end of 1955, only 5,000 remained."

https://monacojerry.livejournal.com/41797.html

[Louie]

This is the brutal truth of it all. And it doesn't even mention the insane lobbying that the big 3 pushed to reduce trains and make roads even more necessary.

[Renovator2559]

This is the brutal truth of it all. And it doesn't even mention the insane lobbying that the big 3 pushed to reduce trains and make roads even more necessary.

Not only that, most of the big 3 American car companies (except F150, good truck) are made to break down often and are in the profit of continual service repairs. Its sad how many times these companies have turned the back to the American public in many insidious ways, including tax payers bailing out General Motors and Chrysler...

That's why I like Lexus' and even Toyota and Honda, which create reliable cars that are dependable and are made by engineers that care about the customer over stakeholders.

[GenX]

This is the brutal truth of it all. And it doesn't even mention the insane lobbying that the big 3 pushed to reduce trains and make roads even more necessary.

Not only that, most of the big 3 American car companies (except F150, good truck) are made to break down often and are in the profit of continual service repairs. Its sad how many times these companies have turned the back to the American public in many insidious ways, including tax payers bailing out General Motors and Chrysler...

That's why I like Lexus' and even Toyota and Honda, which create reliable cars that are dependable and are made by engineers that care about the customer over stakeholders.

Its called planned obsolesence. Back when the light bulb came out, they would last a really long time (think of that famous old light bulb in the fire station). That was a problem for the company since they were selling less and less of them. Then they came up with the idea that the bulb should only last about 1000 hours, and required anyone using their patent to produce bulbs this way.

[PotatoeEatsFish]

I work on Farnam and someone from the streetcar board came in and said parts of Farnam will start closing. They’re not starting work yet, they’re just surveying and doing engineering work. They better hurry if they’re aiming to open with Mutual.

[thenewguy]

I work on Farnam and someone from the streetcar board came in and said parts of Farnam will start closing. They’re not starting work yet, they’re just surveying and doing engineering work. They better hurry if they’re aiming to open with Mutual.

that's what I'm sayin. It seems like there's an absolute ton of work to do it 3 years, I don't see them making it by the end of 2026.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

I work on Farnam and someone from the streetcar board came in and said parts of Farnam will start closing. They’re not starting work yet, they’re just surveying and doing engineering work. They better hurry if they’re aiming to open with Mutual.

that's what I'm sayin. It seems like there's an absolute ton of work to do it 3 years, I don't see them making it by the end of 2026.

I really thought they would have at least started doing utility relocations all over by now, I think that will be the slowest moving part of the project.

[Garrett]

The KC streetcar started utility relocation in late 2013, construction proper in May 2014, was completed and then tested starting in December 2015, and then fully opened in May 2016. Sounds like we’re cruising on about that timeline.

[Athomsfere]

I can't remember for sure when we are even getting the final plans. But it should be soon

[skinzfan23]

I saw that Farnam had spraypaint marks all over it this past week, I figured something was about to start.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

I can't remember for sure when we are even getting the final plans. But it should be soon

From the latest OSA agenda it says HDR is preparing 60% design plans for submission in November. I think they have to do another round of design before getting to final plans, so hopefully they are 100% designed by early/mid 2024.

[GenX]

Per Omaha Public Works:

Beginning Today, Farnam St between S 10th St and Turner Blvd will have various lane restrictions for utility locating for street car and will be in effect for seven (7) days.

[ita]

September 21, 2023, Omaha Urban Design Review Board is going to review preliminary designs. Don't know if this is accessible to the public if anyone wants/can attend.

https://www.omahadailyrecord.com/conten ... ices-91123

[ita]

Up for review on Monday's Streetcar Board meeting is the draft Operations and Maintenance Plan. Here's the link:

https://www.cityofomaha.org/images/omah ... -DRAFT.pdf

Here is a picture of the schedule from the plan:



Also, I noticed that it looks like the maintenance facility is currently in CHI Health Center, Lot A. I hope that does not deter development there. The plan says that streetcars will enter the facility from 8th and Dodge. That is right under Dodge overpass. Maybe they can utilize that under the overpass space and not use too much of Lot A. The KCS maintenance facility occupies about a 200x200 foot block.

[Garrett]

Some other info I can find just skimming the doc:

They expect to formally pick a vehicle by the end of this year, and looks like there will be 5 (edit: actually 6) in the initial purchase, with 4 needed in active service at peak times.

They expect an average speed of 12.2 miles per hour, and 40 minutes for a full round trip, which includes a 10 minute turnaround time. This is way faster than the average American speed of 6.9 miles per hour.

Looks like most everything east of 14th street and west of 31st ave will be off wire.

[Athomsfere]

Headways seem a little low, but not terrible I guess.

[skinzfan23]

Thanks for posting that info guys:

The only info I would like to add is it sounds like 6 vehicles are being purchased

An initial fleet of six vehicles is anticipated to be acquired before the streetcar line opens

I am excited to see continue information about the development. Also noted the expected opening for Spring 2027.

[thenewguy]

5 vehicles; is that 2 cars or 3?

[Garrett]

5 vehicles; is that 2 cars or 3?

They mention in the doc that they don't anticipate linking vehicles together unless another vehicle breaks down on the track and needs to be towed. So that's 6 independently functioning units that will look something like this.

[skinzfan23]

Yes they mention 65-85 ft. in length. To put that into perspective the ORBT buses are 60ft. long

[skinzfan23]

One other tibit:

The current route lengths for other cities streetcar:

KC: 2.2 miles
Milwaukee: 2.1 miles
Omaha: 3.1 miles

[Garrett]

One other tibit:

The current route lengths for other cities streetcar:

KC: 2.2 miles
Milwaukee: 2.1 miles
Omaha: 3.1 miles

They sure got the streetcar in Omaha built a lot faster than I expected!

[strangerthings]

One other tibit:

The current route lengths for other cities streetcar:

KC: 2.2 miles
Milwaukee: 2.1 miles
Omaha: 3.1 miles

Not totally indicative. KC's number has double the track miles as route miles as its functionally double tracked whereas other "longer" systems have less track miles but more routes miles since they don't run bi-directional down the same streets

[Garrett]

One other tibit:

The current route lengths for other cities streetcar:

KC: 2.2 miles
Milwaukee: 2.1 miles
Omaha: 3.1 miles

Not totally indicative. KC's number has double the track miles as route miles as its functionally double tracked whereas other "longer" systems have less track miles but more routes miles since they don't run bi-directional down the same streets

Yeah he only included route miles, Omaha will end up having 6.16 track miles total. I can't think of many systems that don't have some form of double tracking, either in couplet form or single street bidirectional.

[skinzfan23]

Yes, that was my point, Omaha’s might be the largest or longest of any recently built streetcar for the first phase. (Obviously KC is currently expanding and Milwaukee has had discussions as well) but our route is really long and I still think in some ways better positioned than most other lines throughout the country.

[thenewguy]

5 vehicles; is that 2 cars or 3?

They mention in the doc that they don't anticipate linking vehicles together unless another vehicle breaks down on the track and needs to be towed. So that's 6 independently functioning units that will look something like this.

ah ok, yea that's what i was wondering. I guess I should have said '2 or 3 sections' like, front/middle/back. Do they call each piece a car or what do they call them?

[Ben]

On Page 14 of the doc, it mentions starting service in Spring 2027... I can't find a expected start date above, but that seems like its pushed back to me. Can anyone confirm?

[ita]

On Page 14 of the doc, it mentions starting service in Spring 2027... I can't find a expected start date above, but that seems like its pushed back to me. Can anyone confirm?

The Omahastreetcar.org site currently says start date of Winter 2026, so yeah, it's been pushed back from initial/current ETA.