Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[NEDodger]

There is a term for people who reject any and every project because of fear of change.

BANANA- Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

I don’t think they fear “change” as much as the possibility of development not being able to cover the cost of this and having property taxes upped even further.

[ita]

There is a term for people who reject any and every project because of fear of change.

BANANA- Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

I don’t think they fear “change” as much as the possibility of development not being able to cover the cost of this and having property taxes upped even further.

You're giving most detractors too much credit.

[nebport5]

There is a term for people who reject any and every project because of fear of change.

BANANA- Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

LOL! There's a lot of those in this state.

[nebport5]

There is a term for people who reject any and every project because of fear of change.

BANANA- Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

I don’t think they fear “change” as much as the possibility of development not being able to cover the cost of this and having property taxes upped even further.

Which is about every project except for more roads and road maintenance. We all remember Diane Marie Hayes and the like who said the convention center was a waste of money nobody would use.


Maybe the TIF reform convo could include something like a 1% kick back to alleviate property taxes.

[Athomsfere]

I just can't believe 20 years after this conversation started... That there are still people who are clueless as to how it's funded, the good it will do for the city, and yet are still complaining at town hall meetings.

[thenewguy]

I just can't believe 20 years after this conversation started... That there are still people who are clueless as to how it's funded, the good it will do for the city, and yet are still complaining at town hall meetings.

props to the ill informed that actually show up though?

[Renovator2559]

I was casually chatting with a vendor that lives in Bellevue, which eventually the conversation lead to some of the things Council Bluffs is doing to make their side better and how the Bob Kerry pedestrian bridge spurs pedestrian activity between Omaha and Council Bluffs.

He proceeded to call the Bob Kerry bridge a useless waste of tax payer dollars back then and now; I did my best to inform the individual that the Bob Kerry bridge alone may seem like a waste alone but the bridge serves as an important link of foot traffic between Omaha and CB; which generates attraction and revenue to the surrounding businesses.

Still I am not surprised he has this mindset, he generally tends not to be aware of events that occur locally or on a national level and he has told me that he is an avid video gamer and he is a millennial and yes I am a millennial too.

[NEDodger]

I just can't believe 20 years after this conversation started... That there are still people who are clueless as to how it's funded, the good it will do for the city, and yet are still complaining at town hall meetings.

I can’t believe there are still people who condemn the financial questions about how this will be paid for after the streetcar cost has risen 50 percent and we have seen ZERO ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT attributed to this, aside from Mutual.

[Athomsfere]

I just can't believe 20 years after this conversation started... That there are still people who are clueless as to how it's funded, the good it will do for the city, and yet are still complaining at town hall meetings.

I can’t believe there are still people who condemn the financial questions about how this will be paid for after the streetcar cost has risen 50 percent and we have seen ZERO ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT attributed to this, aside from Mutual.

When did it go to 450 million?

[Athomsfere]

I was casually chatting with a vendor that lives in Bellevue, which eventually the conversation lead to some of the things Council Bluffs is doing to make their side better and how the Bob Kerry pedestrian bridge spurs pedestrian activity between Omaha and Council Bluffs.

He proceeded to call the Bob Kerry bridge a useless waste of tax payer dollars back then and now; I did my best to inform the individual that the Bob Kerry bridge alone may seem like a waste alone but the bridge serves as an important link of foot traffic between Omaha and CB; which generates attraction and revenue to the surrounding businesses.

Still I am not surprised he has this mindset, he generally tends not to be aware of events that occur locally or on a national level and he has told me that he is an avid video gamer and he is a millennial and yes I am a millennial too.

He's in Bellevue, why would he even care about what's happening in a real city?

[NEDodger]

I just can't believe 20 years after this conversation started... That there are still people who are clueless as to how it's funded, the good it will do for the city, and yet are still complaining at town hall meetings.

I can’t believe there are still people who condemn the financial questions about how this will be paid for after the streetcar cost has risen 50 percent and we have seen ZERO ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT attributed to this, aside from Mutual.

When did it go to 450 million?

https://omaha.com/news/local/omahas-440 ... 0building.

[Athomsfere]

I just can't believe 20 years after this conversation started... That there are still people who are clueless as to how it's funded, the good it will do for the city, and yet are still complaining at town hall meetings.

I can’t believe there are still people who condemn the financial questions about how this will be paid for after the streetcar cost has risen 50 percent and we have seen ZERO ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT attributed to this, aside from Mutual.

When did it go to 450 million?

https://omaha.com/news/local/omahas-440 ... 0building.

I stand corrected then.

But I still support the streetcar 100%. If we can build stupid stuff like the Dodge Expressway, we can build at least some decent transit too. And this is still backed by TIF, so good for us for getting ahead of something for once.

[NEDodger]

It’s backed by TIF unless there are cost overages AND the development fully happens as finger-crossed. In which case, there are lease purchasing bonds that would have to come out of the city’s general fund.

These are legitimate financial questions.

[Renovator2559]

He's in Bellevue, why would he even care about what's happening in a real city?

Maybe because he fails to see the big picture on how a strong attractive core is integral in attracting people and prospective companies and how everyone in the metro area benefits indirectly.

Same with plenty of West Omahan's, they are informed in the ways of free parking, street widening, lane additions as solutions to traffic congestion bandaid approaches. They don't even see all the hidden costs from free parking, and all the sprawling asphalt costs which are expensive to maintain in the long term.

They also don't realize that their neighborhoods are subsidized by inner city tax payers, since they are unable to pay for their infrastructure sprawl.

Yet a streetcar that will activate new sources of revenue and increase the core in vibrancy, is seen as an inconvenient cost; despite a much higher density of tax payers in the inner core being served.

Also, if we would have adopted the streetcar years ago, the cost for the streetcar would have been much lower a few years ago due to inflation, but of course BANANAs were opposed and delayed.


On a side note I found this snippet in the article both impressive and sad:
"In the late 1800s, Omaha had the second-largest streetcar network in the nation (after Boston), but the city scrapped its last streetcar in 1955 in favor of buses."

[MetcalfeHarrison]

It’s backed by TIF unless there are cost overages AND the development fully happens as finger-crossed. In which case, there are lease purchasing bonds that would have to come out of the city’s general fund.

These are legitimate financial questions.

Yeah, I do think there are some real cost concerns from people involved with the project behind the scenes. It's wild because the original $306 million number already included a 35% contingency, so really they've basically doubled the budget. I'm still waiting on a pricing update from the OSA meetings before I get too worried though.

[Garrett]

It’s backed by TIF unless there are cost overages AND the development fully happens as finger-crossed. In which case, there are lease purchasing bonds that would have to come out of the city’s general fund.

These are legitimate financial questions.

Yeah, I do think there are some real cost concerns from people involved with the project behind the scenes. It's wild because the original $306 million number already included a 35% contingency, so really they've basically doubled the budget. I'm still waiting on a pricing update from the OSA meetings before I get too worried though.

The inflated price still includes a 35% contingency. I think the projected actual cost is still around $326 million.

[Elkhorn_Urbanist]

It’s backed by TIF unless there are cost overages AND the development fully happens as finger-crossed. In which case, there are lease purchasing bonds that would have to come out of the city’s general fund.

These are legitimate financial questions.

Yeah, I do think there are some real cost concerns from people involved with the project behind the scenes. It's wild because the original $306 million number already included a 35% contingency, so really they've basically doubled the budget. I'm still waiting on a pricing update from the OSA meetings before I get too worried though.

The inflated price still includes a 35% contingency. I think the projected actual cost is still around $326 million.

Is this not a cost that is supposed to be repaid over decades? They have literally just started drilling small holes in the ground, there are no rails yet, and certainly no streetcars moving. I think it is a bit early to expect much in the way of development news tied to a transit project that doesn't even exist yet and won't for years. That MoO is currently under construction speaks more to it being the catalyst for more than a result of the streetcar.

[strangerthings]

It’s backed by TIF unless there are cost overages AND the development fully happens as finger-crossed. In which case, there are lease purchasing bonds that would have to come out of the city’s general fund.

These are legitimate financial questions.

Yeah, I do think there are some real cost concerns from people involved with the project behind the scenes. It's wild because the original $306 million number already included a 35% contingency, so really they've basically doubled the budget. I'm still waiting on a pricing update from the OSA meetings before I get too worried though.

The inflated price still includes a 35% contingency. I think the projected actual cost is still around $326 million.

Is this not a cost that is supposed to be repaid over decades? They have literally just started drilling small holes in the ground, there are no rails yet, and certainly no streetcars moving. I think it is a bit early to expect much in the way of development news tied to a transit project that doesn't even exist yet and won't for years. That MoO is currently under construction speaks more to it being the catalyst for more than a result of the streetcar.

KC Streetcar was announced in about 2010/2011 and started an upward trend in population. New development really needed to see the line open and how people reacted to it before streetcar-specific development started to take off.

[Dundeemaha]

There's a lot of stalled development plans while rates remain around 7%. No one can predict the future, but if the Fed is right and median rates are at 3.9% for 2025, 2.9% for 2026 right as this is coming on line, I think we'll crush the forecast development levels.

[Dusty]

Any mention where the rail cars will come from? I know Kawasaki makes a ton of heavy rail cars in Lincoln, NE. From the pictures, it looks like they manufacture more subway cars vs. the modern streetcar we are getting.

[DasBoot]

Any mention where the rail cars will come from? I know Kawasaki makes a ton of heavy rail cars in Lincoln, NE. From the pictures, it looks like they manufacture more subway cars vs. the modern streetcar we are getting.

I've been inside the Kawasaki Rail Car Plant many times and have never seen anything resembling a street car. It's all subway cars for major East Coast cities.

[GenX]

Officials unveiling conceptual images at Omaha streetcar update

[skinzfan23]

Skimmed through the presentation but did they actually select a street car design yet. From what I saw they just showed the 4 previous renderings.

[Habits76]

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... 90dadce28e

[Coyote]

City reveals design for Omaha's streetcar, plans for stations along the route



The first phase of Omaha's streetcar design is finished and includes plans for stations at the 16 stops along the route, as well as changes to the route to allow for future extension. The designs will be reviewed by the Urban Design Review Board this month, as required by city code. The city's planning department has reviewed the 30% designs and recommended approval.

[skinzfan23]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

[almighty_tuna]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

I don't remember where I read it today, but the updated design now ends at 39th & Farnam to allow UNMC to review its ultimate extension through their campus to the innovation center.

[GenX]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

I don't remember where I read it today, but the updated design now ends at 39th & Farnam to allow UNMC to review its ultimate extension through their campus to the innovation center.

It was mentioned in the news conference. Also, it will only go to Capitol on the east end.

There was also mention of possible expansions to North O, which they're seeking a $300k federal grant to study, possibly followed by an airport extensions.

[Garrett]

I like that they’re using island stations through MTC and Blackstone. Gives a lot more flexibility to possibly expand pedestrian space in the district. The 39th terminus feels like a blunder though. Giving UNMC more time to sort stuff out? Odd. I fail to see how ending at 42nd would hamper that.

[Garrett]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

I don't remember where I read it today, but the updated design now ends at 39th & Farnam to allow UNMC to review its ultimate extension through their campus to the innovation center.

It was mentioned in the news conference. Also, it will only go to Capitol on the east end.

There was also mention of possible expansions to North O, which they're seeking a $300k federal grant to study, possibly followed by an airport extensions.

Does that mean it won’t go up Cass along 10th anymore either?

[skinzfan23]

I like that they’re using island stations through MTC and Blackstone. Gives a lot more flexibility to possibly expand pedestrian space in the district. The 39th terminus feels like a blunder though. Giving UNMC more time to sort stuff out? Odd. I fail to see how ending at 42nd would hamper that.

Agree, I am not sure those businesses would want a streetcar sitting in front of their doors just charging.

[GenX]

I like that they’re using island stations through MTC and Blackstone. Gives a lot more flexibility to possibly expand pedestrian space in the district. The 39th terminus feels like a blunder though. Giving UNMC more time to sort stuff out? Odd. I fail to see how ending at 42nd would hamper that.

As a result, the cost will go down, and UNMC will be responsible for funding the extension through their campus.

[GenX]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

I don't remember where I read it today, but the updated design now ends at 39th & Farnam to allow UNMC to review its ultimate extension through their campus to the innovation center.

It was mentioned in the news conference. Also, it will only go to Capitol on the east end.

There was also mention of possible expansions to North O, which they're seeking a $300k federal grant to study, possibly followed by an airport extensions.

Does that mean it won’t go up Cass along 10th anymore either?

That was my understanding from the news conference.

[skinzfan23]

Here are the renderings for the maintenance facility:

[Garrett]

I like that they’re using island stations through MTC and Blackstone. Gives a lot more flexibility to possibly expand pedestrian space in the district. The 39th terminus feels like a blunder though. Giving UNMC more time to sort stuff out? Odd. I fail to see how ending at 42nd would hamper that.

As a result, the cost will go down, and UNMC will be responsible for funding the extension through their campus.

I guess that’s fair. I just hope it actually happens then and we don’t end up with a worse system at the end

[skinzfan23]

Here are the renderings showing the median design and the end of the route charging section:

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Does that mean it won’t go up Cass along 10th anymore either?

That was my understanding from the news conference.

Will there be a station at 10th and Capitol then?

[skinzfan23]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

I don't remember where I read it today, but the updated design now ends at 39th & Farnam to allow UNMC to review its ultimate extension through their campus to the innovation center.

It was mentioned in the news conference. Also, it will only go to Capitol on the east end.

There was also mention of possible expansions to North O, which they're seeking a $300k federal grant to study, possibly followed by an airport extensions.

Does that mean it won’t go up Cass along 10th anymore either?

That was my understanding from the news conference.

I would be ok with that b/c I was wondering how it would work with the streetcar, pedestrian and vehicle traffic during major events right near the Hilton. Stopping at Capitol still gets you within 2-3 blocks of CHI main entrance and Schwab Field.

[Garrett]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

I don't remember where I read it today, but the updated design now ends at 39th & Farnam to allow UNMC to review its ultimate extension through their campus to the innovation center.

It was mentioned in the news conference. Also, it will only go to Capitol on the east end.

There was also mention of possible expansions to North O, which they're seeking a $300k federal grant to study, possibly followed by an airport extensions.

Does that mean it won’t go up Cass along 10th anymore either?

That was my understanding from the news conference.

I would be ok with that b/c I was wondering how it would work with the streetcar, pedestrian and vehicle traffic during major events right near the Hilton. Stopping at Capitol still gets you within 2-3 blocks of CHI main entrance and Schwab Field.

It’s definitely not the worst change. No need for the stub for now if they’re looking to cut some costs.

[GenX]

Is the streetcar route ending just west of 39th and Farnam? I thought it was going to 42nd st. On pg 7 there is a rending of a charging area for the streetcar, and I don't see any tracks extending further west.

I don't remember where I read it today, but the updated design now ends at 39th & Farnam to allow UNMC to review its ultimate extension through their campus to the innovation center.

It was mentioned in the news conference. Also, it will only go to Capitol on the east end.

There was also mention of possible expansions to North O, which they're seeking a $300k federal grant to study, possibly followed by an airport extensions.

Does that mean it won’t go up Cass along 10th anymore either?

That was my understanding from the news conference.

I would be ok with that b/c I was wondering how it would work with the streetcar, pedestrian and vehicle traffic during major events right near the Hilton. Stopping at Capitol still gets you within 2-3 blocks of CHI main entrance and Schwab Field.

It’s definitely not the worst change. No need for the stub for now if they’re looking to cut some costs.

I also imagine MECA had objections after spending all that time and money installing bollards.