Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[Garrett]

This is pie in the sky stuff. You’re going to tell me that my hometown will double because of the land of one golf course and a small stretch of blocks along one street?! Get out of here. I’d like to see these projections they’re using.

Not with that Suburban Tulsa attitude!

But on a serious note, it's definitely an ambitious proposal that could be tough to pull off for a wide variety of reasons, but I do like that they're aiming big with their ambitions and have a landuse plan to match their infrastructure investments. I can also almost guarantee you that the CB streetcar will run faster than the Omaha streetcar.

[CBJason]

This is pie in the sky stuff. You’re going to tell me that my hometown will double because of the land of one golf course and a small stretch of blocks along one street?! Get out of here. I’d like to see these projections they’re using.

Not with that Suburban Tulsa attitude!

But on a serious note, it's definitely an ambitious proposal that could be tough to pull off for a wide variety of reasons, but I do like that they're aiming big with their ambitions and have a landuse plan to match their infrastructure investments. I can also almost guarantee you that the CB streetcar will run faster than the Omaha streetcar.

It always comes back to Tulsa! Lol.

I’m all for the growth and development they’re pushing for but, I like skinzfan, can’t see how those numbers will happen and I would just like to see how they come to those conclusions. I also could see 10k tops.

[Garrett]

This is pie in the sky stuff. You’re going to tell me that my hometown will double because of the land of one golf course and a small stretch of blocks along one street?! Get out of here. I’d like to see these projections they’re using.

Not with that Suburban Tulsa attitude!

But on a serious note, it's definitely an ambitious proposal that could be tough to pull off for a wide variety of reasons, but I do like that they're aiming big with their ambitions and have a landuse plan to match their infrastructure investments. I can also almost guarantee you that the CB streetcar will run faster than the Omaha streetcar.

It always comes back to Tulsa! Lol.

I’m all for the growth and development they’re pushing for but, I like skinzfan, can’t see how those numbers will happen and I would just like to see how they come to those conclusions. I also could see 10k tops.

It’s a very long term goal IMO. More like 2080 than 2040. But I do think opening up a multi modal bridge with a good streetcar line could drastically change things for CB. Even if it is only 10k more people, that’s more growth than the city has seen since 1970.

[almighty_tuna]

I really love CB's notion of a multimodal bridge across the mo for bikes/pedestrians as an extension of the 1st Ave trail and an accompanying streetcar line. The opportunity for dense, car-independent development a quick train ride from downtown is huge.

What I haven't seen so far is a real outward endorsement of the potential extension from the City of Omaha and OMetro. The partnership and coordination required between the two cities, the transit authority, and the federal government is massive. Without those local entities working closely together from early on, I don't know that this really would get off the ground and CB's gonna be that kid in the group class project who's left holding the bag for a failing grade because nobody else contributed.

[NEDodger]

I really love CB's notion of a multimodal bridge across the mo for bikes/pedestrians as an extension of the 1st Ave trail and an accompanying streetcar line. The opportunity for dense, car-independent development a quick train ride from downtown is huge.

What I haven't seen so far is a real outward endorsement of the potential extension from the City of Omaha and OMetro. The partnership and coordination required between the two cities, the transit authority, and the federal government is massive. Without those local entities working closely together from early on, I don't know that this really would get off the ground and CB's gonna be that kid in the group class project who's left holding the bag for a failing grade because nobody else contributed.

I’m not sure why the City of Omaha should be concerned with assisting with development in another state? If the intent of a streetcar line is to spur building in downtown Omaha, opening up potential lots somewhere else to have construction shifted seems foolish. Especially if this is to paid for “only by” increased property valuations for new/renovated construction.

I don’t care if it’s 50 years or 100 years - a streetcar isn’t going to cause Council Bluffs’ population to DOUBLE. It’s projections/statements like this that cause the majority of people to discredit these types of initiatives.

[Garrett]

I really love CB's notion of a multimodal bridge across the mo for bikes/pedestrians as an extension of the 1st Ave trail and an accompanying streetcar line. The opportunity for dense, car-independent development a quick train ride from downtown is huge.

What I haven't seen so far is a real outward endorsement of the potential extension from the City of Omaha and OMetro. The partnership and coordination required between the two cities, the transit authority, and the federal government is massive. Without those local entities working closely together from early on, I don't know that this really would get off the ground and CB's gonna be that kid in the group class project who's left holding the bag for a failing grade because nobody else contributed.

OMetro isn’t directly involved with the Omaha streetcar, since it falls under the Streetcar Authority, so their buyin isn’t a huge. The multi-modal bridge/dodge park redevelopment had entire sections devoted to them in the Urban Core Plan, which was made with the input of all of the big players of the metro. And Mayor Stothert has said in previous articles (one linked below) that Omaha is working with Council Bluffs on the bridge and the streetcar more broadly. I think the thing right now is that we’re in the study phase so there just isn’t a lot to say right now.

https://journalstar.com/news/state-and- ... ode=nowapp

[Athomsfere]

I’m not sure why the City of Omaha should be concerned with assisting with development in another state? If the intent of a streetcar line is to spur building in downtown Omaha, opening up potential lots somewhere else to have construction shifted seems foolish. Especially if this is to paid for “only by” increased property valuations for new/renovated construction.

I don’t care if it’s 50 years or 100 years - a streetcar isn’t going to cause Council Bluffs’ population to DOUBLE. It’s projections/statements like this that cause the majority of people to discredit these types of initiatives.

Council Bluffs growing in a way where transit investments here make the core more sustainable doesn't explain why Omaha would want it?

It should be obvious that having more people hop on transit and come across the river would be a goal over endless sprawl, parking garages etc.

The added pressure of a vibrant population to the east of downtown should help the core grow too, instead of the population center pushing west.

The way I see it: CB is going to pop one day. The proximity to a major regional power with all the perks of a city that hasn't ever exploded: Cheap properties for development, great access, a decent multi-modal system being built now... And all of the best views of Downtown Omaha.

If the metro's growth stays relatively flat from it's average over the last 30 years and CB captured 10% of that growth, it would double in ~50 years.

Likely? Unknown still post Covid IMO. Very possible though.

[almighty_tuna]

I really love CB's notion of a multimodal bridge across the mo for bikes/pedestrians as an extension of the 1st Ave trail and an accompanying streetcar line. The opportunity for dense, car-independent development a quick train ride from downtown is huge.

What I haven't seen so far is a real outward endorsement of the potential extension from the City of Omaha and OMetro. The partnership and coordination required between the two cities, the transit authority, and the federal government is massive. Without those local entities working closely together from early on, I don't know that this really would get off the ground and CB's gonna be that kid in the group class project who's left holding the bag for a failing grade because nobody else contributed.

I’m not sure why the City of Omaha should be concerned with assisting with development in another state? If the intent of a streetcar line is to spur building in downtown Omaha, opening up potential lots somewhere else to have construction shifted seems foolish. Especially if this is to paid for “only by” increased property valuations for new/renovated construction.

I don’t care if it’s 50 years or 100 years - a streetcar isn’t going to cause Council Bluffs’ population to DOUBLE. It’s projections/statements like this that cause the majority of people to discredit these types of initiatives.

Don't quote me and yammer on about the doubling of the CB population. I couldn't care less about it.

If a multimodal bridge across the MO that ties into the Omaha streetcar were to happen, it would require construction and coordination on both sides of the river. Additionally, adding a residential population near the core of the city is absolutely important to the economy of downtown Omaha and potential employers in the area. I honestly didn't expect such a short sighted response and myopic posit about the intent of a streetcar line.

Anyway, I think this would be a huge win for the area on both sides of the river. I hope that the municipalities can really work together on an extension across the river.

Garrett, I should have specified Metro Transit Board of Directors instead of OMetro specifically. But the spirit of the reference was there.

[ita]

I really love CB's notion of a multimodal bridge across the mo for bikes/pedestrians as an extension of the 1st Ave trail and an accompanying streetcar line. The opportunity for dense, car-independent development a quick train ride from downtown is huge.

What I haven't seen so far is a real outward endorsement of the potential extension from the City of Omaha and OMetro. The partnership and coordination required between the two cities, the transit authority, and the federal government is massive. Without those local entities working closely together from early on, I don't know that this really would get off the ground and CB's gonna be that kid in the group class project who's left holding the bag for a failing grade because nobody else contributed.

I’m not sure why the City of Omaha should be concerned with assisting with development in another state? If the intent of a streetcar line is to spur building in downtown Omaha, opening up potential lots somewhere else to have construction shifted seems foolish. Especially if this is to paid for “only by” increased property valuations for new/renovated construction.

I don’t care if it’s 50 years or 100 years - a streetcar isn’t going to cause Council Bluffs’ population to DOUBLE. It’s projections/statements like this that cause the majority of people to discredit these types of initiatives.

Happy Easter everybody.

https://www.ketv.com/article/council-bl ... d/45770703

If you scroll down this article, it states that for the bridge, Omaha and CB would likely apply together. Cb would be in charge for the route in CB.

This CB extension, particularly the bridge, is part of the chambers urban core plan? Why? Because while the core has a lot of room for development either through surface parking or green field development, the core does have its limits. Connecting to CB opens up possibly tens of thousands of new residents. Why does Omaha care about that? It gives the City a carrot to put in front of employers to locate or relocate downtown. It helps the streetcar less of a tourist/destination line and more of a regional connector. Not only that, but you open up a whole other group of people to buy and play in downtown.

Downtown Omaha's proximity to CB makes this extension imperative, in my opinion, just as helping grow north Omaha or south Omaha through redevelopment projects.

[NEDodger]

If the core was remotely close to being full, sure I can maybe buy that argument. But we are nowhere close to that. It would seem to be more prudent to expand the traditional core (from the City of Omaha’s point of view), then, rather than paying for a bridge so that Broadway sees some additional apartment while the old UP and Civic sites remain empty? Omaha is not better off having its residents potentially move from, say, 72nd and Blondo to Council Bluffs. That’s a loss in property tax as well as a loss in state income tax.

[Garrett]

If the core was remotely close to being full, sure I can maybe buy that argument. But we are nowhere close to that. It would seem to be more prudent to expand the traditional core (from the City of Omaha’s point of view), then, rather than paying for a bridge so that Broadway sees some additional apartment while the old UP and Civic sites remain empty? Omaha is not better off having its residents potentially move from, say, 72nd and Blondo to Council Bluffs. That’s a loss in property tax as well as a loss in state income tax.

I think CB investing in a streetcar only enhances the value of Omaha’s investment. Going back to the charts from the presentation we’ve been talking about, the full buildout that CB envisions calls for 53,000 residents but only around 6,000 new jobs, or about 30 million sqft of residential compared to 1.2 million sqft of office. CB being a bigger factor in metropolitan growth only strengthens the importance of downtown, particularly as a job center. Right now the choices aren’t 72nd and Blondo or downtown, they’re 204th and blondo or downtown. A strong council bluffs can be symbiotic to a strong downtown Omaha

[NEDodger]

If the core was remotely close to being full, sure I can maybe buy that argument. But we are nowhere close to that. It would seem to be more prudent to expand the traditional core (from the City of Omaha’s point of view), then, rather than paying for a bridge so that Broadway sees some additional apartment while the old UP and Civic sites remain empty? Omaha is not better off having its residents potentially move from, say, 72nd and Blondo to Council Bluffs. That’s a loss in property tax as well as a loss in state income tax.

I think CB investing in a streetcar only enhances the value of Omaha’s investment. Going back to the charts from the presentation we’ve been talking about, the full buildout that CB envisions calls for 53,000 residents but only around 6,000 new jobs, or about 30 million sqft of residential compared to 1.2 million sqft of office. CB being a bigger factor in metropolitan growth only strengthens the importance of downtown, particularly as a job center. Right now the choices aren’t 72nd and Blondo or downtown, they’re 204th and blondo or downtown. A strong council bluffs can be symbiotic to a strong downtown Omaha

By that argument, though, 204th and Blondo is still more advantegous for the City of Omaha than Council Bluffs. Having residents move to Iowa is still a loss of property tax revenue as well as a large amount of sales tax.

And I question the job center argument, as the younger population is also the most adamant about remote work anyways.

[halgy]

If the core was remotely close to being full, sure I can maybe buy that argument. But we are nowhere close to that. It would seem to be more prudent to expand the traditional core (from the City of Omaha’s point of view), then, rather than paying for a bridge so that Broadway sees some additional apartment while the old UP and Civic sites remain empty? Omaha is not better off having its residents potentially move from, say, 72nd and Blondo to Council Bluffs. That’s a loss in property tax as well as a loss in state income tax.

I think CB investing in a streetcar only enhances the value of Omaha’s investment. Going back to the charts from the presentation we’ve been talking about, the full buildout that CB envisions calls for 53,000 residents but only around 6,000 new jobs, or about 30 million sqft of residential compared to 1.2 million sqft of office. CB being a bigger factor in metropolitan growth only strengthens the importance of downtown, particularly as a job center. Right now the choices aren’t 72nd and Blondo or downtown, they’re 204th and blondo or downtown. A strong council bluffs can be symbiotic to a strong downtown Omaha

By that argument, though, 204th and Blondo is still more advantageous for the City of Omaha than Council Bluffs. Having residents move to Iowa is still a loss of property tax revenue as well as a large amount of sales tax.

And I question the job center argument, as the younger population is also the most adamant about remote work anyways.

Meh, I think it evens out. I live in Omaha and work in CB, for instance. If we're that worried about people working/living/buying across the border, then we should start by closing down the bridges. Besides, Omaha doesn't really come out ahead on property taxes for West O suburban sprawl, anyway. As long as we have the dense urban core, we'll do fine.

I'm fully in favor of adding as much infill and densification near downtown as possible. However, some people (even young people) don't want to live in a condo/apartment. Connecting thousands of single family houses in to downtown will add a whole new demographic who might want to work in Omaha.

[NEDodger]

If the core was remotely close to being full, sure I can maybe buy that argument. But we are nowhere close to that. It would seem to be more prudent to expand the traditional core (from the City of Omaha’s point of view), then, rather than paying for a bridge so that Broadway sees some additional apartment while the old UP and Civic sites remain empty? Omaha is not better off having its residents potentially move from, say, 72nd and Blondo to Council Bluffs. That’s a loss in property tax as well as a loss in state income tax.

I think CB investing in a streetcar only enhances the value of Omaha’s investment. Going back to the charts from the presentation we’ve been talking about, the full buildout that CB envisions calls for 53,000 residents but only around 6,000 new jobs, or about 30 million sqft of residential compared to 1.2 million sqft of office. CB being a bigger factor in metropolitan growth only strengthens the importance of downtown, particularly as a job center. Right now the choices aren’t 72nd and Blondo or downtown, they’re 204th and blondo or downtown. A strong council bluffs can be symbiotic to a strong downtown Omaha

By that argument, though, 204th and Blondo is still more advantageous for the City of Omaha than Council Bluffs. Having residents move to Iowa is still a loss of property tax revenue as well as a large amount of sales tax.

And I question the job center argument, as the younger population is also the most adamant about remote work anyways.

Meh, I think it evens out. Besides, Omaha doesn't really come out ahead on property taxes for West O suburban sprawl, anyway.

If that were true, the City of Omaha would not be an aggressive annexing entity.

[NEDodger]

I really love CB's notion of a multimodal bridge across the mo for bikes/pedestrians as an extension of the 1st Ave trail and an accompanying streetcar line. The opportunity for dense, car-independent development a quick train ride from downtown is huge.

What I haven't seen so far is a real outward endorsement of the potential extension from the City of Omaha and OMetro. The partnership and coordination required between the two cities, the transit authority, and the federal government is massive. Without those local entities working closely together from early on, I don't know that this really would get off the ground and CB's gonna be that kid in the group class project who's left holding the bag for a failing grade because nobody else contributed.

I’m not sure why the City of Omaha should be concerned with assisting with development in another state? If the intent of a streetcar line is to spur building in downtown Omaha, opening up potential lots somewhere else to have construction shifted seems foolish. Especially if this is to paid for “only by” increased property valuations for new/renovated construction.

I don’t care if it’s 50 years or 100 years - a streetcar isn’t going to cause Council Bluffs’ population to DOUBLE. It’s projections/statements like this that cause the majority of people to discredit these types of initiatives.

Don't quote me and yammer on about the doubling of the CB population. I couldn't care less about it.

Wow, seriously?

The first paragraph was in response to you. The second in response to the previous discussion about the magical doubling in population.

!	Message from: BRoss
	Removed unnecessary remark. Please keep it civil.

[Athomsfere]

If that were true, the City of Omaha would not be an aggressive annexing entity.

I think that's an entirely different thing.

If Omaha Doesn't annex what it can, it could lose the option to do so later.

Probably the absolute best example is St Louis. Where St Louis City is like 250,000 people, is the anchor of a major metro but has almost zero ability to get anything done because there are 5 political entities with about as much, or more clout than the principle city of the MSA.

[NEDodger]

If that were true, the City of Omaha would not be an aggressive annexing entity.

I think that's an entirely different thing.

If Omaha Doesn't annex what it can, it could lose the option to do so later.

Probably the absolute best example is St Louis. Where St Louis City is like 250,000 people, is the anchor of a major metro but has almost zero ability to get anything done because there are 5 political entities with about as much, or more clout than the principle city of the MSA.

But…..that’s not going to happen in Douglas County. Ralston is never going to have the political sway of Omaha. And even if it would, there’s no one alive today who is going to care when it would happen.

Omaha annexes because the tax revenue it gains from those areas are a net positive. Don’t take my word for it:

https://www.cityofomaha.org/latest-new ... annexation

[buildomaha]

If that were true, the City of Omaha would not be an aggressive annexing entity.

I think that's an entirely different thing.

If Omaha Doesn't annex what it can, it could lose the option to do so later.

Probably the absolute best example is St Louis. Where St Louis City is like 250,000 people, is the anchor of a major metro but has almost zero ability to get anything done because there are 5 political entities with about as much, or more clout than the principle city of the MSA.

But…..that’s not going to happen in Douglas County. Ralston is never going to have the political sway of Omaha. And even if it would, there’s no one alive today who is going to care when it would happen.

Omaha annexes because the tax revenue it gains from those areas are a net positive. Don’t take my word for it:

https://www.cityofomaha.org/latest-new ... annexation

The annexed areas are a net positive in the short term yes. Long term, the upkeep of suburban sprawl will takes its tolls on the city’s coffers.

[Garrett]

If that were true, the City of Omaha would not be an aggressive annexing entity.

I think that's an entirely different thing.

If Omaha Doesn't annex what it can, it could lose the option to do so later.

Probably the absolute best example is St Louis. Where St Louis City is like 250,000 people, is the anchor of a major metro but has almost zero ability to get anything done because there are 5 political entities with about as much, or more clout than the principle city of the MSA.

But…..that’s not going to happen in Douglas County. Ralston is never going to have the political sway of Omaha. And even if it would, there’s no one alive today who is going to care when it would happen.

Omaha annexes because the tax revenue it gains from those areas are a net positive. Don’t take my word for it:

https://www.cityofomaha.org/latest-new ... annexation

It’s going to happen in Douglas county faster than you’d expect though. Development isn’t limited by the Platte river, it’s limited by the Elkhorn river due to the flood plains. Omaha has a lot less sprawl room left than you’d expect, so it needs to be all in on urban development, which will include a strong Council Bluffs

[Louie]

If that were true, the City of Omaha would not be an aggressive annexing entity.

I think that's an entirely different thing.

If Omaha Doesn't annex what it can, it could lose the option to do so later.

Probably the absolute best example is St Louis. Where St Louis City is like 250,000 people, is the anchor of a major metro but has almost zero ability to get anything done because there are 5 political entities with about as much, or more clout than the principle city of the MSA.

But…..that’s not going to happen in Douglas County. Ralston is never going to have the political sway of Omaha. And even if it would, there’s no one alive today who is going to care when it would happen.

Omaha annexes because the tax revenue it gains from those areas are a net positive. Don’t take my word for it:

https://www.cityofomaha.org/latest-new ... annexation

It’s going to happen in Douglas county faster than you’d expect though. Development isn’t limited by the Platte river, it’s limited by the Elkhorn river due to the flood plains. Omaha has a lot less sprawl room left than you’d expect, so it needs to be all in on urban development, which will include a strong Council Bluffs

How close are they to those limits on the west end of the county?

[FishFighter92]

If that were true, the City of Omaha would not be an aggressive annexing entity.

I think that's an entirely different thing.

If Omaha Doesn't annex what it can, it could lose the option to do so later.

Probably the absolute best example is St Louis. Where St Louis City is like 250,000 people, is the anchor of a major metro but has almost zero ability to get anything done because there are 5 political entities with about as much, or more clout than the principle city of the MSA.

But…..that’s not going to happen in Douglas County. Ralston is never going to have the political sway of Omaha. And even if it would, there’s no one alive today who is going to care when it would happen.

Omaha annexes because the tax revenue it gains from those areas are a net positive. Don’t take my word for it:

https://www.cityofomaha.org/latest-new ... annexation

It’s going to happen in Douglas county faster than you’d expect though. Development isn’t limited by the Platte river, it’s limited by the Elkhorn river due to the flood plains. Omaha has a lot less sprawl room left than you’d expect, so it needs to be all in on urban development, which will include a strong Council Bluffs

How close are they to those limits on the west end of the county?

There's already new development in the flood plain. They've already built many "million" dollar homes around 260th between Pacific and Maple. A lot of the undeveloped land is in the northwest part of the county.

A denser CB will help business in downtown Omaha, but Omaha will need to create ways to draw CB residents over.

[Garrett]

How close are they to those limits on the west end of the county?

According to the Urban Core Plan, the City Planning Office estimates prime land will start to run out as early as 2040

[ita]

Just a quick thought regarding funding streetcar extensions. Both CB and Omaha have stated that federal funds are essential to extensions over the River to CB and into North Omaha, possibly the airport. The Biden administration is awarding grants to projects like this is historical amounts. I don't know if Trump will have a similar focus on infrastructure spending if he wins, but if we continue to see infrastructure investment like we have the last couple years, whoever is in office next year, especially in the public transportation and reconnecting communities realm, this may just be the best time to get these extensions funded, and other projects like the I-480 Lid or the demolition of the I-480 overpass.

[Garrett]

Interesting note: Omaha has received $300,000 as part of federal funding for planning for TOD. In particular, it's to plan for TOD around the 19th street extension of the streetcar. 3 miles would be enough to get a line to Ames

https://www.wowt.com/2024/04/02/city-om ... velopment/

https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/gra ... g-projects

The city of Omaha will receive funding to plan for transit-oriented development along the proposed North 19th Street Corridor Extension, a three-mile streetcar line that is part of a downtown streetcar network expected to open in 2026. The corridor will include a stop at Creighton University, providing future transit access for students, faculty and staff.

[almighty_tuna]

I was just coming to post the same thing. Very interesting.

[ita]

Hmm 19th? That means it goes right past Civic Site. If there is legs to this extension, Civic Site needs a redux asap. It should not be just 4+1's.

[skinzfan23]

Hmm 19th? That means it goes right past Civic Site. If there is legs to this extension, Civic Site needs a redux asap. It should not be just 4+1's.

Definitely agree. It should be at least 8-10 stories.

Glad that they are getting some money, but is this just to study the extension? And $300,000 isn't that much anymore.

[Dusty]

The projects chosen were based on the criteria laid out in the Notice of Funding Opportunity; this marked the second time applicants were asked to prioritize TOD in areas with high rates of homelessness.

This is a terrible choice for an extension. The selection of the route was based on level of homelessness and not what makes sense for our transit network. Once, you pass Creighton it's single-family homes all the way to Ames. Are they planning on bulldozing all these homes to build density? What I see is North Omaha residents displaced through gentrification.

We don't need this. It's the wrong mode. Buses would do a lot better job on moving people through this area.
I have said before...the streetcar is not a silver bullet. Outside of Farnam, I would do the 10th Street extension and that's it. I would much rather see a commuter rail to Lincoln than any streetcar extension zig zagging all over with no rhyme or reason.

[nebport5]

The projects chosen were based on the criteria laid out in the Notice of Funding Opportunity; this marked the second time applicants were asked to prioritize TOD in areas with high rates of homelessness.

This is a terrible choice for an extension. The selection of the route was based on level of homelessness and not what makes sense for our transit network. Once, you pass Creighton it's single-family homes all the way to Ames. Are they planning on bulldozing all these homes to build density? What I see is North Omaha residents displaced through gentrification.

We don't need this. It's the wrong mode. Buses would do a lot better job on moving people through this area.
I have said before...the streetcar is not a silver bullet. Outside of Farnam, I would do the 10th Street extension and that's it. I would much rather see a commuter rail to Lincoln than any streetcar extension zig zagging all over with no rhyme or reason.

Keep in mind 19th terminates just after Lake St. The route would likely veer east to 16th or possibly West to 20th or 24th St. The route could start from 19th yet deviate east or west well before Lake and there is your study.

I suspect this is the route(rather than Abbott) that the mayor is referring to when stating eventually the streetcar will go all the way to the airport. This is also in line with Senator Wayne's proposal. Given the parties expressing support for this route I imagine affordable housing would also be key component to city/state initiated TOD.

[ita]

The projects chosen were based on the criteria laid out in the Notice of Funding Opportunity; this marked the second time applicants were asked to prioritize TOD in areas with high rates of homelessness.

This is a terrible choice for an extension. The selection of the route was based on level of homelessness and not what makes sense for our transit network. Once, you pass Creighton it's single-family homes all the way to Ames. Are they planning on bulldozing all these homes to build density? What I see is North Omaha residents displaced through gentrification.

We don't need this. It's the wrong mode. Buses would do a lot better job on moving people through this area.
I have said before...the streetcar is not a silver bullet. Outside of Farnam, I would do the 10th Street extension and that's it. I would much rather see a commuter rail to Lincoln than any streetcar extension zig zagging all over with no rhyme or reason.

Keep in mind 19th terminates just after Lake St. The route would likely veer east to 16th or possibly West to 20th or 24th St. The route could start from 19th yet deviate east or west well before Lake and there is your study.

I suspect this is the route(rather than Abbott) that the mayor is referring to when stating eventually the streetcar will go all the way to the airport. This is also in line with Senator Wayne's proposal. Given the parties expressing support for this route I imagine affordable housing would also be key component to city/state initiated TOD.

We really have no idea what this extension looks like. While a 3 mile extension could just go north to Ames, I also measured about 3 miles to go north 19th/Florence, turn right at Locust and get to the south side of the big proposed North Omaha industrial site at 14th Ave. Alternatively, you can draw out a 3 mile extension by going north on 19th, turning right on Cuming, then right on 10th to reconnect with the initial route at Capitol. That likely is not the route, otherwise they would call it a loop, but we all don't know at this point.

At the very least, this prospective 19th street extension of the streetcar excites me because of this area:



I marked in yellow the city blocks (9 of them) that were identified as future development opportunities according to the urban core strategic plan, if we could get rid of the I-480 overpass/20th street exit. When we heard about Senator Wayne pushing for a North Omaha extension at the state level, we were all thinking 16th. I think if you consider what I highlighted in yellow, the 19th street extension, makes some sense. Imagining at stop at Cass street, you I capture three blocks east and west. Going west, that just happened to be the 3 block limit of the existing streetcar TIF district. Note that currently, the Civic Site is just outside that district; running up 19th would capture that project.

Maybe 19th street is being done to help spur the discussions of taking down I-480 and this offramp. Just rough calculations, based on 37 West, the 9 story apartment/garage in Blackstone, that project is worth about $40 million. That's a half a city block and has a parking to apartment unit ratio of 400:160 because it also serves as the garage for Blackstone. Imagine each of those highlighted city blocks with even denser development. Even if you conservatively estimated added 300 units per city block, you're looking at least $700 million in new development. Noddle's 4 story speculative office building was $57 million and that has a foot print of about half a city block as well. Maybe Creighton wants more space to expand their campus; they take two blocks between 22nd and 20th. Their recent health sciences building cost $75 million.

I would be even more optimistic that each block could bring at least $100 million each block, meaning nearly $1 billion. That doesn't include what this could do for the Civic Site, ie. lead to even more density.

Again rough numbers and the demolition of I-480 is still far out there (though we are probably at or past usable life of the overpass; I don't know exactly when the overpass was completed, but seems like early 1970's). What do you think?

[Dusty]

This extension is basically building a historic streetcar line in the way it functions. There is a reason why we don't build them anymore. Buses are cheaper and out perform these old streetcars. I can go on and on about why this line is so poorly thought out. What are the metrics for the next study? The route with the most potholes? The route the with the most Megasavers or Discount Liquor stores?

Who is requesting the study? MAPA?

[ita]

This extension is basically building a historic streetcar line in the way it functions. There is a reason why we don't build them anymore. Buses are cheaper and out perform these old streetcars. I can go on and on about why this line is so poorly thought out. What are the metrics for the next study? The route with the most potholes? The route the with the most Megasavers or Discount Liquor stores?

Who is requesting the study? MAPA?

With the limited information available, the study is looking at TOD along the extension.

[Busguy2010]

This extension is basically building a historic streetcar line in the way it functions. There is a reason why we don't build them anymore. Buses are cheaper and out perform these old streetcars. I can go on and on about why this line is so poorly thought out. What are the metrics for the next study? The route with the most potholes? The route the with the most Megasavers or Discount Liquor stores?

Who is requesting the study? MAPA?

With the limited information available, the study is looking at TOD along the extension.

I like 19th better than 16th or 24th. I definitely think an extension to South Omaha is more important, but 19th has some fairly new low income single family housing that's just as good as gone if this gets going. I think it'll be better to jaunt westward toward NOTC rather than the airport, though.

[Mapguy]

If a streetcar extension is going anywhere its going 1st to Saddle Creek and then to Aksarben---thats the next logical place to extend. Aksarben has UNO and a bunch of corporate offices and resturants and bars; its a natural western termination point before going North and South

[nebport5]

The projects chosen were based on the criteria laid out in the Notice of Funding Opportunity; this marked the second time applicants were asked to prioritize TOD in areas with high rates of homelessness.

This is a terrible choice for an extension. The selection of the route was based on level of homelessness and not what makes sense for our transit network. Once, you pass Creighton it's single-family homes all the way to Ames. Are they planning on bulldozing all these homes to build density? What I see is North Omaha residents displaced through gentrification.

We don't need this. It's the wrong mode. Buses would do a lot better job on moving people through this area.
I have said before...the streetcar is not a silver bullet. Outside of Farnam, I would do the 10th Street extension and that's it. I would much rather see a commuter rail to Lincoln than any streetcar extension zig zagging all over with no rhyme or reason.

Keep in mind 19th terminates just after Lake St. The route would likely veer east to 16th or possibly West to 20th or 24th St. The route could start from 19th yet deviate east or west well before Lake and there is your study.

I suspect this is the route(rather than Abbott) that the mayor is referring to when stating eventually the streetcar will go all the way to the airport. This is also in line with Senator Wayne's proposal. Given the parties expressing support for this route I imagine affordable housing would also be key component to city/state initiated TOD.

We really have no idea what this extension looks like. While a 3 mile extension could just go north to Ames, I also measured about 3 miles to go north 19th/Florence, turn right at Locust and get to the south side of the big proposed North Omaha industrial site at 14th Ave. Alternatively, you can draw out a 3 mile extension by going north on 19th, turning right on Cuming, then right on 10th to reconnect with the initial route at Capitol. That likely is not the route, otherwise they would call it a loop, but we all don't know at this point.

At the very least, this prospective 19th street extension of the streetcar excites me because of this area:



I marked in yellow the city blocks (9 of them) that were identified as future development opportunities according to the urban core strategic plan, if we could get rid of the I-480 overpass/20th street exit. When we heard about Senator Wayne pushing for a North Omaha extension at the state level, we were all thinking 16th. I think if you consider what I highlighted in yellow, the 19th street extension, makes some sense. Imagining at stop at Cass street, you I capture three blocks east and west. Going west, that just happened to be the 3 block limit of the existing streetcar TIF district. Note that currently, the Civic Site is just outside that district; running up 19th would capture that project.

Maybe 19th street is being done to help spur the discussions of taking down I-480 and this offramp. Just rough calculations, based on 37 West, the 9 story apartment/garage in Blackstone, that project is worth about $40 million. That's a half a city block and has a parking to apartment unit ratio of 400:160 because it also serves as the garage for Blackstone. Imagine each of those highlighted city blocks with even denser development. Even if you conservatively estimated added 300 units per city block, you're looking at least $700 million in new development. Noddle's 4 story speculative office building was $57 million and that has a foot print of about half a city block as well. Maybe Creighton wants more space to expand their campus; they take two blocks between 22nd and 20th. Their recent health sciences building cost $75 million.

I would be even more optimistic that each block could bring at least $100 million each block, meaning nearly $1 billion. That doesn't include what this could do for the Civic Site, ie. lead to even more density.

Again rough numbers and the demolition of I-480 is still far out there (though we are probably at or past usable life of the overpass; I don't know exactly when the overpass was completed, but seems like early 1970's). What do you think?

Were we? I think it's pretty clear from this Examiner article that proposed route would be along 19th and run by the forthcoming business park. "Wayne said his broader idea is for the streetcar route to extend north from Farnam and 19th Streets — and into the future business park he expects will develop near 16th and Locust Streets. He envisions the route continuing toward the airport."

Nebraska lawmaker seeks state funding for Omaha streetcar — if it extended north toward airport

here's the map from that article...




Of course we don't know an exact route yet, but it's not just Wayne supporting a northern route past the business park and to the airport. And for anyone to assume it would be exclusively three miles north from 19th St is foolish since it's a little over 1.5 miles to Lake St where 19th terminates.

I share your enthusiasm for the highlighted area. Let's tear down the damm overpass now.

[ita]

Were we? I think it's pretty clear from this Examiner article that proposed route would be along 19th and run by the forthcoming business park. "Wayne said his broader idea is for the streetcar route to extend north from Farnam and 19th Streets — and into the future business park he expects will develop near 16th and Locust Streets. He envisions the route continuing toward the airport."

Nebraska lawmaker seeks state funding for Omaha streetcar — if it extended north toward airport

here's the map from that article...




Of course we don't know an exact route yet, but it's not just Wayne supporting a northern route past the business park and to the airport. And for anyone to assume it would be exclusively three miles north from 19th St is foolish since it's a little over 1.5 miles to Lake St where 19th terminates.

I share your enthusiasm for the highlighted area. Let's tear down the damm overpass now.

Ah thanks for the reference. Well there you go, that's the route. I forgot about that.

Yeah hopefully the north extension leads something happening with the overpass and exit.

[Athomsfere]

This extension is basically building a historic streetcar line in the way it functions. There is a reason why we don't build them anymore. Buses are cheaper and out perform these old streetcars. I can go on and on about why this line is so poorly thought out. What are the metrics for the next study? The route with the most potholes? The route the with the most Megasavers or Discount Liquor stores?

Who is requesting the study? MAPA?

Are cheaper in the sort term.

And out perform them how? The capacity is still higher and can be added to more with more cars on a train.

There is also the perception benefit. There are a lot of people like my wife who love transit, but only when the backbone has rails.

When we go to Seattle for example we ride transit exclusively. A lot of time ends up on busses and she doesn't mind. But here, she refuses to ride ORBT because she likes in order: A train, biking, her car, walking, a bus.

Somehow just having rail in there makes the bus OK for her. She realizes its weird. We can't figure it out. Maybe it has something to do with being from a country that does transit at least mostly right. But I always look at her as the target demographic for US transit. Put skates on my feet and strap me to an Acme rocket and I'd take it if it gets me there quickly and safely without fighting traffic, but we want to covert as much of the easy to convert people as possible.

For a route we know almost nothing about, I see no problems here.

[Busguy2010]

I just saw the map. I REALLY do not think using a streetcar, especially on that route, is an effective airport route.

A few hard pills we have to swallow - that route will take at least 20 minutes between the airport and downtown. I want to lean more toward 30 minutes.

It won't be effective transportation. Few people living in North Omaha now are seeking transportation to the airport. Let's face it.

North Omaha isn't exactly an inviting area most people want to go through just to get to the airport, let alone taking longer to do it

Not a fan at all. The streetcar is not the answer here.

I would rather it jaunt west toward other parts of North Omaha and actually maybe be an effective transportation solution for residents in North Omaha.

[Trips1]

"Tesla Robotaxi unveil on 8/8" - Elon Musk

This should put production in early 2026. I would expect to see wide release by 2028, just in time to get a ride to the streetcar. Nebraska already has laws on the books and the current technology does 99.7% of the driving.

* 8 is a Chinese number so they might start by releasing the service in China.

[Garrett]

"Tesla Robotaxi unveil on 8/8" - Elon Musk

This should put production in early 2026. I would expect to see wide release by 2028, just in time to get a ride to the streetcar. Nebraska already has laws on the books and the current technology does 99.7% of the driving.

* 8 is a Chinese number so they might start by releasing the service in China.

Well Elon does famously deliver on every promise, which is why we’re all zipping around in hyperloops