Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[iamjacobm]

I found the presentation doc with the list of projects being counted.

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... c9be357025

[Doctor Fate]

I found the presentation doc with the list of projects being counted.

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... c9be357025

The largest of the projected developments is $75 million. What type of project could that amount to?

[Garrett]

I found the presentation doc with the list of projects being counted.

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... c9be357025

The largest of the projected developments is $75 million. What type of project could that amount to?

Comparable to the 48th and Dodge project's $82 million, I suppose, but I can't recall which project that one is.

[skip]

I found the presentation doc with the list of projects being counted.

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... c9be357025

The largest of the projected developments is $75 million. What type of project could that amount to?

Comparable to the 48th and Dodge project's $82 million, I suppose, but I can't recall which project that one is.

48th and dodge apartment is like 300+ units. Assuming a few of the new projects are downtown, it will be less units since price of land is more expensive.

[ita]

I found the presentation doc with the list of projects being counted.

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... c9be357025

The largest of the projected developments is $75 million. What type of project could that amount to?

Comparable to the 48th and Dodge project's $82 million, I suppose, but I can't recall which project that one is.

It's this project: viewtopic.php?t=23175&hilit=vet

Lots of $50M+ projects on the unnamed list. Hopefully, these are on smaller lots, ie. more than the 5-story apartment buildings we usually get.

[skinzfan23]

It shows project Beacon as $443 million, I thought those costs were increased to $600 million.

[Doctor Fate]

I found the presentation doc with the list of projects being counted.

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... c9be357025

The largest of the projected developments is $75 million. What type of project could that amount to?

Comparable to the 48th and Dodge project's $82 million, I suppose, but I can't recall which project that one is.

It's this project: viewtopic.php?t=23175&hilit=vet

Lots of $50M+ projects on the unnamed list. Hopefully, these are on smaller lots, ie. more than the 5-story apartment buildings we usually get.

I believe Lied Place in Lincoln was projected to be $30 million in 2019, according to Hausmann.

[TheSeventhBrat]

Others potentially being counted depending on when they are starting from (assuming anything w/in 3 blocks of the line)

The View on Dodge Apartments
37 West Farnam
The apt conversion on 19h and Farnam
The proposed project just west of the Flatiron
There is an affordable project proposed on 25th Ave and Jones
The apartment proposal at the of Luthern Family services lot at 24th and Douglas
Potential redevelopment of the Salvation army campus just west of that

There is a new vacant lot on 26th & Harney. Maybe another 5 over 1 apartment building.

[Doctor Fate]

On Grow Omaha they were talking about the 11 projected developments previously mentioned in this thread. Jeff said they had heard of something substantially more than the $75 million project that was listed. Brad then brought up the 10th and Harney site and the Mercantile hotel site. Was the rumor Jeff mentioned referring to one of those sites (or both) or was he referring to something else?

[Garrett]

On Grow Omaha they were talking about the 11 projected developments previously mentioned in this thread. Jeff said they had heard of something substantially more than the $75 million project that was listed. Brad then brought up the 10th and Harney site and the Mercantile hotel site. Was the rumor Jeff mentioned referring to one of those sites (or both) or was he referring to something else?

I’d assume he would be referring to those. He also mentioned rumored residential conversions for the old First National, Landmark, and OPPD buildings during the following commercial break. Given the Duo’s $163 million listed budget (which is a much larger building and includes new construction), I could see these buildings being renovated as some of the unannounced $50-75 million projects

[MetcalfeHarrison]

June 18, 2024 Media Event

It looks like they posted information from the mayor's press conference last week. I think we've seen some of this, but it also has the independent cost estimator's overall project price breakdown. I wonder how it compares with Kiewit's numbers since they are the ones actually building it.

[Garrett]

A great article by Eric Miller (a member if I recall correctly?) on Grow Omaha discussing the idea of a streetcar to the airport. Very much looking forward to his future articles!

https://growomaha.com/what-is-the-right ... to-eppley/

[thenewguy]

A great article by Eric Miller (a member if I recall correctly?) on Grow Omaha discussing the idea of a streetcar to the airport. Very much looking forward to his future articles!

https://growomaha.com/what-is-the-right ... to-eppley/

He makes really great points. I think a hub scenario that would connect buses to the streetcar is a great idea and if it was done right, people would be down with it. Maybe a couple people working a counter, a la concierge at a hotel? Have some vending machines, public bathrooms, etc, and it would be great. Put a security guard in there, and you're set. Then people may not lobby as hard for an extension to the airport, which we all agree would be unsensible.

[Busguy2010]

A great article by Eric Miller (a member if I recall correctly?) on Grow Omaha discussing the idea of a streetcar to the airport. Very much looking forward to his future articles!

https://growomaha.com/what-is-the-right ... to-eppley/

He makes really great points. I think a hub scenario that would connect buses to the streetcar is a great idea and if it was done right, people would be down with it. Maybe a couple people working a counter, a la concierge at a hotel? Have some vending machines, public bathrooms, etc, and it would be great. Put a security guard in there, and you're set. Then people may not lobby as hard for an extension to the airport, which we all agree would be unsensible.

I definitely don't want the streetcar to be extended to the airport, I'm glad we're pretty much all in agreement there. For a while there, I thought they really believed it was a good idea.

As far as the extensions currently floated, my preference, in order, is 10th to the zoo, CB, then 19th. I actually don't care for 19th at all. Any further north than Creighton, there's no destination. And actually the buses do a much better job moving North Omaha than any streetcar could. Finally, any streetcar through the ghetto is going to bring with it gentrification and displacement. Sure I'd love to see north Omaha cleaned up and restored, but then it really wouldn't be north Omaha anymore. It would be out with the old, in with the new. Having spent a LOT of time there throughout my life, that's not how I want to see it go down.

[Mapguy]

The next logical extension is to Aksarben; it's the next densest neighborhood with lots of jobs resturants and apts and Baxter Arena.

Theres 2 logical Routes from the med center (assuming their final extension is to Saddle Creak). Center St, Leavenworth/Pacific.

Center St would have to be widened, the service would make no sense in mixed traffic as that street is very congested during rush hour at 60th and anytime Baxter Arena is used. Leavenworth would be an easier push more properties are developable and it doesn't have nearly as much traffic.

I just dont see TIFF supporting either of these extensions as they're both fairly developed already.

[Louie]

The next logical extension is to Aksarben; it's the next densest neighborhood with lots of jobs resturants and apts and Baxter Arena.

Theres 2 logical Routes from the med center (assuming their final extension is to Saddle Creak). Center St, Leavenworth/Pacific.

Center St would have to be widened, the service would make no sense in mixed traffic as that street is very congested during rush hour at 60th and anytime Baxter Arena is used. Leavenworth would be an easier push more properties are developable and it doesn't have nearly as much traffic.

I just dont see TIFF supporting either of these extensions as they're both fairly developed already.

Agreed, they make the most sense on paper but the logistics of building either of those routes is not easy.

[Busguy2010]

The next logical extension is to Aksarben; it's the next densest neighborhood with lots of jobs resturants and apts and Baxter Arena.

Theres 2 logical Routes from the med center (assuming their final extension is to Saddle Creak). Center St, Leavenworth/Pacific.

Center St would have to be widened, the service would make no sense in mixed traffic as that street is very congested during rush hour at 60th and anytime Baxter Arena is used. Leavenworth would be an easier push more properties are developable and it doesn't have nearly as much traffic.

I just dont see TIFF supporting either of these extensions as they're both fairly developed already.

I agree. I want Leavenworth for sure though. But as was said, this would be a long extension. Maybe should also consider extending to Dundee sooner? It's much closer and could be a good sell for the rest of the extensions.

[Garrett]

There used to be a streetcar line that ran down 42nd-Leavenworth-60th-Woolworth-63rd. Basically all of these streets have extra residual width because of this historic route, and could probably accommodate dedicated lanes for a streetcar.

[omahahawk]

Nothing really new here but I did find this article interesting the other day from trains.com about the Omaha project.


CAF lands contract for new Omaha streetcar line


OMAHA, Neb. — CAF will build the equipment for the new Omaha streetcar network, the Spanish firm has announced.

The initial order for the Omaha Streetcar Authority, a partnership between the City of Omaha and Omaha Metro, will include six vehicles, along with parts and tools, along with an option to build up to 29 additional trainsets in the future. The contract is worth approximately $54 million (€50 million).

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... tcar-line/

[Garrett]

The option to build up to 29 more in the future is an interesting bit.

[Louie]

There used to be a streetcar line that ran down 42nd-Leavenworth-60th-Woolworth-63rd. Basically all of these streets have extra residual width because of this historic route, and could probably accommodate dedicated lanes for a streetcar.

That would be a neat extension.

[Louie]

The option to build up to 29 more in the future is an interesting bit.

But not 30

[GenX]

I could see them going Leavenworth to 60th, down to Pacific, and then over to 72nd, possibly going through AV on the way. They’d have to widen Pacific, cutting slightly into Elmwood.

[Garrett]

I could see them going Leavenworth to 60th, down to Pacific, and then over to 72nd, possibly going through AV on the way. They’d have to widen Pacific, cutting slightly into Elmwood.

Not a bad plan. Lots of development potential along that, and could help build a network for a 72nd street BRT.

[Bomaha]

I could see them going Leavenworth to 60th, down to Pacific, and then over to 72nd, possibly going through AV on the way. They’d have to widen Pacific, cutting slightly into Elmwood.

I wouldn't mind it going down Elmwood Park Road to clip UNO North and send it down 67th to get AV and Baxter.

[halgy]

I could see them going Leavenworth to 60th, down to Pacific, and then over to 72nd, possibly going through AV on the way. They’d have to widen Pacific, cutting slightly into Elmwood.

I wouldn't mind it going down Elmwood Park Road to clip UNO North and send it down 67th to get AV and .

It would be huge if the network could properly connect to UNO north and Aksarben (and potentially operate as the shuttle between them). In the same way as the current streetcar basically makes the Old Market/midtown/Blackstone one big neighborhood, that expansion would make Aksarben/UNO/west Leavenworth one big neighborhood. It would massively boost development along Leavenworth to directly connect thousands of students to it.

[Dusty]

I get the excitement of expansion, but our intention is not to build a streetcar network. Our goal is to build a transit network that is composed of mix of modes: bus, BRT, modern streetcar, light rail, metro rail, etc. Each corridor should have the mode that best fits it. The connectivity of it all makes it a full functioning transit network. Otherwise you will have a streetcar network competing with the bus network for riders and space. Both would be poorly functioning unless they learn to work together.

As I mentioned before. Metro's Regional Authority will give them power to plan and operate rail. They will no longer be a bus agency, but a transit agency. The streetcar authority could work under Metro so they can plan a network together.

[OmahaFan]

I get the excitement of expansion, but our intention is not to build a streetcar network. Our goal is to build a transit network that is composed of mix of modes: bus, BRT, modern streetcar, light rail, metro rail, etc. Each corridor should have the mode that best fits it. The connectivity of it all makes it a full functioning transit network. Otherwise you will have a streetcar network competing with the bus network for riders and space. Both would be poorly functioning unless they learn to work together.

As I mentioned before. Metro's Regional Authority will give them power to plan and operate rail. They will no longer be a bus agency, but a transit agency. The streetcar authority could work under Metro so they can plan a network together.

We first need to get the street car built then we can talk about rail options to Lincoln and elsewhere. Be nice to have a network in Omaha that could reach Lincoln , Des Moine , Sioux City and KC all within a hour or so.

[OmahaFan]

Imagine instead of driving to those area just getting on a nice train and taking it down there for KC chiefs games and Husker games in Lincoln.

[ita]

I could see them going Leavenworth to 60th, down to Pacific, and then over to 72nd, possibly going through AV on the way. They’d have to widen Pacific, cutting slightly into Elmwood.

Not a bad plan. Lots of development potential along that, and could help build a network for a 72nd street BRT.

North Aksarben has lots of surface lots to develop, but outside of that there is not a whole lot of developable land. Unless the City goes the route CB is pursuing; they open up the Elmwood park golf course up for development.

[Louie]

I could see them going Leavenworth to 60th, down to Pacific, and then over to 72nd, possibly going through AV on the way. They’d have to widen Pacific, cutting slightly into Elmwood.

Not a bad plan. Lots of development potential along that, and could help build a network for a 72nd street BRT.

North Aksarben has lots of surface lots to develop, but outside of that there is not a whole lot of developable land. Unless the City goes the route CB is pursuing; they open up the Elmwood park golf course up for development.

Since it abuts the rest of Elmwood Park, I doubt they do that. But there are some opportunities along that route. Leavenworth from Saddle Creek to 52nd has a number of underutilized/unused lots.

And of course, as you mentioned, the many lots still around Aksarben.

[Garrett]

I could see them going Leavenworth to 60th, down to Pacific, and then over to 72nd, possibly going through AV on the way. They’d have to widen Pacific, cutting slightly into Elmwood.

Not a bad plan. Lots of development potential along that, and could help build a network for a 72nd street BRT.

North Aksarben has lots of surface lots to develop, but outside of that there is not a whole lot of developable land. Unless the City goes the route CB is pursuing; they open up the Elmwood park golf course up for development.

Since it abuts the rest of Elmwood Park, I doubt they do that. But there are some opportunities along that route. Leavenworth from Saddle Creek to 52nd has a number of underutilized/unused lots.

And of course, as you mentioned, the many lots still around Aksarben.

I'd also add the terminus at 72nd would be a great candidate for development as well. And the city could rezone the single family homes on the south side of Pacific to TOD as well and let them redevelop incrementally. Elmwood is a massive asset that, if it doesn't remain a golf course, could stay a big urban greenspace in the heart of the city.

[BN1]

For those unfamiliar with streetcars. I had my first experience with the Portland streetcar system last month.

Started in 2001. Currently have 3 lines that circulate.
Arriving every 15-20 min they cover the majority of the inner core on both sides of the river.
$1.50 for 2.5 hours or $2.50 per day. Our hotel gave us 1 free $1.50 pass per guest every day.
Usually 3 cars with a seated capacity of around 35-40 with standing capacity I would guess over 100.
A lot more elderly walker and wheelchair riders than I would have expected.
Middle car is ground level with more open space and limited seats to accommodate people with these needs.
1st and 3rd car were a step up to the seats.
Our June weekend riding was 50-75% full at any given time. So 20-30 butts in seats.
Mix of locals and tourists.
Passed by a lot of urban grocery stores.
App and website show real time locations and ETA is posted at each stop.
We had clean and pleasant rides.

More info https://www.travelportland.com/plan/portland-streetcar/

[Garrett]

For those unfamiliar with streetcars. I had my first experience with the Portland streetcar system last month.

Started in 2001. Currently have 3 lines that circulate.
Arriving every 15-20 min they cover the majority of the inner core on both sides of the river.
$1.50 for 2.5 hours or $2.50 per day. Our hotel gave us 1 free $1.50 pass per guest every day.
Usually 3 cars with a seated capacity of around 35-40 with standing capacity I would guess over 100.
A lot more elderly walker and wheelchair riders than I would have expected.
Middle car is ground level with more open space and limited seats to accommodate people with these needs.
1st and 3rd car were a step up to the seats.
Our June weekend riding was 50-75% full at any given time. So 20-30 butts in seats.
Mix of locals and tourists.
Passed by a lot of urban grocery stores.
App and website show real time locations and ETA is posted at each stop.
We had clean and pleasant rides.

More info https://www.travelportland.com/plan/portland-streetcar/

Interesting! I’m surprised 15-20 minutes are their top headways. I also see they only run until 11 on Weekdays and then 1030 on Weekends.

Omaha’s is planned to run until midnight on weekdays and 2 am on weekends with 10 minute headways from 10-7 weekdays and 12-7 on weekends, and then a minimum of 20 minute headways otherwise. If they follow that schedule it would probably be the best in the country.

[FishFighter92]

For those unfamiliar with streetcars. I had my first experience with the Portland streetcar system last month.

Interesting! I’m surprised 15-20 minutes are their top headways. I also see they only run until 11 on Weekdays and then 1030 on Weekends.

When is the last time you used the Portland streetcar and bus system? It's been a few years for me, but if ridership is low at midnight, it would not feel very safe. Bus headways were much worse back then.

[Garrett]

For those unfamiliar with streetcars. I had my first experience with the Portland streetcar system last month.

Interesting! I’m surprised 15-20 minutes are their top headways. I also see they only run until 11 on Weekdays and then 1030 on Weekends.

When is the last time you used the Portland streetcar and bus system? It's been a few years for me, but if ridership is low at midnight, it would not feel very safe. Bus headways were much worse back then.

I mean I've never visited Portland, but I use public transportation late at night in New York all the time since the subway here is 24/7, and it's a great asset to be able to go have a night out at the bars and still be able to take safe, frequent public transport home.

[FishFighter92]

For those unfamiliar with streetcars. I had my first experience with the Portland streetcar system last month.

Interesting! I’m surprised 15-20 minutes are their top headways. I also see they only run until 11 on Weekdays and then 1030 on Weekends.

When is the last time you used the Portland streetcar and bus system? It's been a few years for me, but if ridership is low at midnight, it would not feel very safe. Bus headways were much worse back then.

I mean I've never visited Portland, but I use public transportation late at night in New York all the time since the subway here is 24/7, and it's a great asset to be able to go have a night out at the bars and still be able to take safe, frequent public transport home.

Yeah, Portland may be sketchier than what you're used to, although less people being pushed onto the tracks.

[FishFighter92]

Someone posted another press release over on SSC. Mostly the same info as the link further up this page.

https://www.caf.net/en/sala-prensa/nota ... .php?e=468

These are Urbos platform 3-module trams with a 100% low-floor design.

Good, 100% low floor is so much better.

[Garrett]

For those unfamiliar with streetcars. I had my first experience with the Portland streetcar system last month.

Interesting! I’m surprised 15-20 minutes are their top headways. I also see they only run until 11 on Weekdays and then 1030 on Weekends.

When is the last time you used the Portland streetcar and bus system? It's been a few years for me, but if ridership is low at midnight, it would not feel very safe. Bus headways were much worse back then.

I mean I've never visited Portland, but I use public transportation late at night in New York all the time since the subway here is 24/7, and it's a great asset to be able to go have a night out at the bars and still be able to take safe, frequent public transport home.

Yeah, Portland may be sketchier than what you're used to, although less people being pushed onto the tracks.

While the track pushing incidents in New York have been very tragic, they are also incredibly rare incidents, and way more people are killed by cars in New York.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

July's OSA agenda is out, and it looks like they have new dates for bidding out some of the work. Utilities, bridges, and the VMF are all bidding between September and December so I wouldn't be surprised if we have work starting for all of these before the end of the year. It took a little bit but the ball will really start rolling soon.